Maybe Gtho in pipe line

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Abacus

Yuck. What Lincoln. A Cown Vic? Decade old design and 4.6? All the rest are bum draggers.

No the crown victoria is a totally different model, different chassis/floorpan everything. The crown vic does however share itself with the Mercury Grand Marquis.

And the current design is three and a half years old, although facelifted every year. Pick on the 4.6, but it has almost 200kw and returns extraordinary fuel economy. (I know, I drove a Lincoln 8000 miles over 3 weeks).

Abacus, think Hire Car and then Lincoln. My above post has some of the advantages listed, as well as the target market.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

anyone considered the car may be the next model .the bf is going to be one of the shortist lived models in fords history . the next model comes out next year.

There will be a BF2. The new car isn't out for another 18 months, and the BF will become stale especially when the VE commodore hits the showrooms. Ford don't want to lose sales to Holden especially with their new potent V8. There are feasability studies for the Boss 260 to become the standard v8 and XR to receive the 290, as the Holden stocker is said to be 260kw. FPV are to allegedly get a 330, and a HO will be slightly higher again.

[Gadgetman]

It could have been a test mule. But they test alot of stuff daily. Most never make it anyways. But a HO would be a great idea

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by ltd

There will be a BF2. The new car isn't out for another 18 months, and the BF will become stale especially when the VE commodore hits the showrooms. Ford don't want to lose sales to Holden especially with their new potent V8. There are feasability studies for the Boss 260 to become the standard v8 and XR to receive the 290, as the Holden stocker is said to be 260kw. FPV are to allegedly get a 330, and a HO will be slightly higher again.

I agree and think there will be a BF2. Looking at what happened with BF and some of the reasons being given for the disappearance of certain features and innovations, it would appear that the delay in VE has caused Ford to hold over some "improvements" in order to muddy VE’s path and one certainly can't blame them for that. I am sure Holden will time their upgrades to be around the same time as the next new Falcon.

If anything can be learnt from marketing by watching the console war, being first to market looks to be a worth while feather to ones cap and a substantial obstacle to overcome for the competition.

[FPV]

So now we have numbers floating all over the place. Personally i think the BF2 GT/GT-P will have 320kw, or even 330kws. I expect the GTHO to have 350kw. Well Bluehoon said march we will see HO, thats reasonable, at very latest if its launched at all, id expect to see it at AIMS.

[parawolf]

I just cannot see BF2 copping a powerplant upgrade when the BF didn't get it. Though perhaps BF got the BARRA190, BARRA230 upgrades, perhaps BF2 will get BOSS upgrades.

Though i'd be surprised. They might get a 'retune' to improve down low torque performance but with them doing all the re-work to get to EURO3 spec emissions recently, I can't seem them messing with anything until "ALL NEW" Falcon (orion?) comes out in 2008.

On that note, i've heard that Ford of Australia have had to cut $100million of improvements OUT of Orion due to Ford Global struggling.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by parawolf

On that note, i've heard that Ford of Australia have had to cut $100million of improvements OUT of Orion due to Ford Global struggling.

I have been told something along those lines.... took it with a grain of salt.
Although it does seem to make some sort on sense.

D:

[KEV EB XR8]

Speculation

Somebody with proof (pics) please put an end to this debarcle....

:lookedat: please.....

[gtfpv]

well i thought these posts were very interesting but seem too varied . some people post with confidence . then others rip them down with speculation . so i'm still confused. it would be great to see a BOSS 290 IN AN XR .and a BOSS 330 IN A GT . WOWEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. only problem for me then is where will i get the doeh for a trade up.???? HEAR WHAT I'M SAYING FPV WHATCHDOGS!!!!!!!

[Abacus]

Errrr, LTD, mate, with the greatest possible respect, you're talking through your backside...

Current Crown Vic has been around since 1998, when it replaced the 1992-1997 series.

Here's a 1998 LX:



Here's a 1999 LX:



Here's a 2000LX



Here's a 2001 LX



Here's a 2002 LX Sport



Here's a 2003 LX Sport



Here's a 2004 Police Version



Here's a 2005 LX



Here's a 2006 LX




It still has a watts link live rear axle setup.

I believe the EPA rating is 17mpg city/25mpg country. Not bad, but not "extraordinary".

The standard 4.6 puts out 224hp/275ft-lb (167kw/373nm). The LX Sport still gets a 4.6, but puts out 239hp/287ft-lb (178kw/389nm).

Its been a few years since I've been in a Crown Vic, but I agree they are comfy. They do make a good hire car - and they're certainly strong enough - which is something to be said for a separate chassis/body construction...

Can't say handling is in Falcon class though.

[Paxton]

I wouldn't like one thanks. Too American, too 'soft'. Give me a Fairlane G290, call it the Galaxie, give it a BMW like interior, with all the inclusions, and sell it for about $10,000 more than the GT-P, and watch the sales rack up.

I never liked driving a Column Shift Auto, and I can't see many Aussies liking it either.

[Bluehoon]

With all due respects.

The relation of Ford America and LTD's to the discussion of a possible GT-HO is?????????????????????????????????????

[ltd]

Abacas, I'm not talking about the Crown Victoria. The Lincoln is an entirely different car. The lincoln has a different floorpan and airbag suspension. Whilst looking at photo's one may see similarities, in the flesh they are entirely different cars. Even the depths of the boot vary, as well as longer wheelbase, different widths, different lengths and different sheet metal. The bore and stroke of the town car is 3.6 in x 3.6 in compared to 3.55 in x 3.54 in in the crown vic.
The list rolls on.

Its like saying the Fairlane and the falcon are the exact same car.
Also, compared to a 5.4 3V, the 4.6 has extraordinary fuel economy when you consider the weights involved.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by ltd

Abacas, I'm not talking about the Crown Victoria. The Lincoln is an entirely different car. The lincoln has a different floorpan and airbag suspension. Whilst looking at photo's one may see similarities, in the flesh they are entirely different cars. Even the depths of the boot vary, as well as longer wheelbase, different widths, different lengths and different sheet metal. The bore and stroke of the town car is 3.6 in x 3.6 in compared to 3.55 in x 3.54 in in the crown vic.
The list rolls on.

Its like saying the Fairlane and the falcon are the exact same car.
Also, compared to a 5.4 3V, the 4.6 has extraordinary fuel economy when you consider the weights involved.

You need to go some pages back to find that one, even I forgot.

Oh yeah, Ford and the GTHO and what else they were doing.

[Abacus]

Sorry, are you talking about the Town Car?

Yes, the Town Car had a suspension upgrade in 2003. Not much else changed though, as far as I know...

Edit: From www.automotive.com "For 2003, Lincoln re-engineered the Town Car with the objective of improving its handling. The new Town Car boasts a new frame, a new rack-and-pinion steering system, a new brake system, and new front and rear suspensions. Revised front and rear styling distinguish the new model, but the changes are subtle and only careful observers are likely to notice. A new instrument panel and improved trunk space highlight the interior changes."

[Bossxr8]

There is so much BS is this thread it isn't funny. First off, Lincolns aren't even made in RHD, and if Ford can't sell Fairlanes then why would they sell Lincolns. WTF. Secondly, just because a car had a different bonnet on it then why is it suddenly a HO. There has been speculation on Ford putting vents on the Boss bonnet ever since the BA was released. Twin superchargers, that only proves that this whole thread is just made up. I've heard Elvis is going to appear at the Commonwealth games opening ceremony.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

They can label any ford with GTHO they want, if it isnt homologated, its not a HO.

This is possibly the most realistic truthful thing ive read in this thread let alone this entire broad subject....

[HSE2]

The BF issue of Blueprint had sketches of different BF appearances that were presumably rejected. One such sketch showed a GT with a bonnet scoop central to the start of the bulge. Obviously something like this is on their minds.

Another poster on this forum has virtually total everyone what is happening in this regard by virtue of his/hers buying intentions for the foreseeable future. That tip is bankable.

As far as this bloody name goes.

Ford is entitled to use the name where ever they see fit. It effectively not up for debate because it is a name that serves to promote the company that stands behind it. It doesn't have to be homologated and it doesn't have to have anything to do with race cars. These cars are never built to make a profit as the very best example serve the purpose of furthering the company’s interests in what ever form that maybe, image being the main. In the past it was purely about competition. That competition is still here today as it was 35 years ago. The point then is the same as the point is today, tomorrow and the next day.

That is simply to kick the general’s ИИИИ from pillar to post in a way that is very public and very recognised.

What it will do is signal a return of the very best Ford can muster in a ROAD car. The GTHO was sold as a road car. Race cars don't make good road cars. As it did in the past, it will in the future, represent the pinnacle of Ford passion and desire in a package that will be recognised as a watershed moment in Ford Australia motoring history.
That’s the end game.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by HSE2

The BF issue of Blueprint had sketches of different BF appearances that were presumably rejected. One such sketch showed a GT with a bonnet scoop central to the start of the bulge. Obviously something like this is on their minds.

Another poster on this forum has virtually total everyone what is happening in this regard by virtue of his/hers buying intentions for the foreseeable future. That tip is bankable.

As far as this bloody name goes.

Ford is entitled to use the name where ever they see fit. It effectively not up for debate because it is a name that serves to promote the company that stands behind it. It doesn't have to be homologated and it doesn't have to have anything to do with race cars. These cars are never built to make a profit as the very best example serve the purpose of furthering the company’s interests in what ever form that maybe, image being the main. In the past it was purely about competition. That competition is still here today as it was 35 years ago. The point then is the same as the point is today, tomorrow and the next day.

That is simply to kick the general’s ИИИИ from pillar to post in a way that is very public and very recognised.

What it will do is signal a return of the very best Ford can muster in a ROAD car. The GTHO was sold as a road car. Race cars don't make good road cars. As it did in the past, it will in the future, represent the pinnacle of Ford passion and desire in a package that will be recognised as a watershed moment in Ford Australia motoring history.
That’s the end game.

Ford have made it clear they don't want to be seen solely as a "V8 company".
I read that to mean they'll kick holdens ИИИИ with out needing to resort to using a performance V8 to do it with, in areas and with vehicles that are foreign to performance vehicle enthusiasts....


By the way, the original GTHO's WERE racecars sold as roadcars because of the HOMOLOGATION requirements and Fords desire for race track success.....
The Std GT's were the intended roadcars.
Without Bathurst success in the early 70's there wouldn't have been any "wins on sunday, sells on monday" sales wins for Ford or GTHO legend to crap on about.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ford have made it clear they don't want to be seen solely as a "V8 company".
I read that to mean they'll kick holdens ИИИИ with out needing to resort to using a performance V8 to do it with, in areas and with vehicles that are foreign to performance vehicle enthusiasts....


By the way, the original GTHO's WERE racecars sold as roadcars because of the HOMOLOGATION requirements and Fords desire for race track success.....
The Std GT's were the intended roadcars.
Without Bathurst success in the early 70's there wouldn't have been any "wins on sunday, sells on monday" sales wins for Ford or GTHO legend to crap on about.

Which is exactly why the original GT’s were poor road cars and the HOs not much better. TODAY you simply can't stick a race car suspension under a road car and get away with it unless it's built specifically for track use. We simply can't pick and choose which aspects are suitable or worthy of note. The value system of the seventies isn’t in use today on any level of production, car design or intent. If FPV were to build the GT in exactly the same mould as its historic relative it wouldn't be half the car it is today. It is completely pointless even discussing relevance to race cars today. The formula is irrelevant and no longer in use but the imagery, the symbolism is still there. In the words of our SVO leader its, win on Sunday sell in 10 years time. Racing today is about investing in an image that won’t show dividends for many many years. A halo car today has to have a hale image of today. A product of the same intent that pays homage to history has to do so with a mindful eye of the past while NOT living in it. The reasons DO NOT have to be identical to the past to qualify as worthy. Performance bench marks for a car carrying the GTHO name are vital and this isn’t FPV or Fords strong suit. They have to identify what benchmarks have to be set in exactly the same way as Ford US set benchmarks for the return of their GT.

People know that when they buy a GT road car they aren't buying a Bathurst winner so its pointless using that part of the GT history to demonstrate anything. It s like saying Ford are still paying for dropping the V8 because its not the lack of success or other that hurt them on the track its the loss of prestige and image in the minds of the youth of a generation.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Which is exactly why the original GT’s were poor road cars and the HOs not much better. TODAY you simply can't stick a race car suspension under a road car and get away with it unless it's built specifically for track use. We simply can't pick and choose which aspects are suitable or worthy of note. The value system of the seventies isn’t in use today on any level of production, car design or intent. If FPV were to build the GT in exactly the same mould as its historic relative it wouldn't be half the car it is today. It is completely pointless even discussing relevance to race cars today. The formula is irrelevant and no longer in use but the imagery, the symbolism is still there. In the words of our SVO leader its, win on Sunday sell in 10 years time. Racing today is about investing in an image that won’t show dividends for many many years. A halo car today has to have a hale image of today. A product of the same intent that pays homage to history has to do so with a mindful eye of the past while NOT living in it. The reasons DO NOT have to be identical to the past to qualify as worthy. Performance bench marks for a car carrying the GTHO name are vital and this isn’t FPV or Fords strong suit. They have to identify what benchmarks have to be set in exactly the same way as Ford US set benchmarks for the return of their GT.

People know that when they buy a GT road car they aren't buying a Bathurst winner so its pointless using that part of the GT history to demonstrate anything. It s like saying Ford are still paying for dropping the V8 because its not the lack of success or other that hurt them on the track its the loss of prestige and image in the minds of the youth of a generation.

I tend to agree with allot of what you say but there is however a clear understanding amongst the classic GT fraternity that the regular standard GT's were designed as the drivers car and designed to be the performance icon of the company in the 70's (not the GTHO).

The GTHO models were quite poor in comparrison as road vehicles, drive a close ratio XYGTHO and std XYGT back to back and it will be clear which one has the nicer manners on the road.

The GTHO became a Legend as a result of its racing success, not because it was a good roadcar...

If improved production which evolved as Group C was introduced in 1969 instead of 1973 there wouldnt have ever been a GTHO Falcon.

In many ways the std GT's were true "Grand Tourers" and the GTHO's were the high performance big brother's.
STD GT's could be auto or manual, had luxury options such as air con, power steer, elec windows etc, the GTHO's by comparrison were bland bare bones racers, manual trans only with no allowable luxury options, tall gearing and grumpy solid cam motors...
To understand why people feel such emotion and conflict about the use of the GTHO name you need to REALLY understand what it meant in the 1970's.

I agree we can't live in the past, but we shouldn't forget it either!

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I tend to agree with allot of what you say but there is however a clear understanding amongst the classic GT fraternity that the regular standard GT's were designed as the drivers car and designed to be the performance icon of the company in the 70's (not the GTHO).

The GTHO models were quite poor in comparrison as road vehicles, drive a close ratio XYGTHO and std XYGT back to back and it will be clear which one has the nicer manners on the road.

The GTHO became a Legend as a result of its racing success, not because it was a good roadcar...

If improved production which evolved as Group C was introduced in 1969 instead of 1973 there wouldnt have ever been a GTHO Falcon.

In many ways the std GT's were true "Grand Tourers" and the GTHO's were the high performance big brother's.
STD GT's could be auto or manual, had luxury options such as air con, power steer, elec windows etc, the GTHO's by comparrison were bland bare bones racers, manual trans only with no allowable luxury options, tall gearing and grumpy solid cam motors...
To understand why people feel such emotion and conflict about the use of the GTHO name you need to REALLY understand what it meant in the 1970's.

I agree we can't live in the past, but we shouldn't forget it either!

Spot on. The faithful don't regard our GT as a “real” GT because of that driver’s intent that you mention and possibly, perhaps FPV don't have the correct balance.

The only other point I would like to expand on is that the majority of the GTHOs image came from negative press. I am old enough (just) to remember the headlines. It was the number of young men being killed on our roads behind the wheel of this car. At one point the road deaths were being compared to lives lost at war. The GTHO was always at the forefront of such discussion. What do they say about publicity? Negative press is good exposure? Well it certainly played its part in the HO legend. The words lethal and death car were used. Some deaths were incorrectly attributed to the HO. In fact any Falcon that was modified seemed to be able to pass in the press as the HO. It’s the culmination of the super car scare that went a long way to the image and notoriously of the GTHO that people remember today. It was the GTHO that ended the super car days. Its fearsome image doesn’t come solely from its track success but from media hype that culminated in the stillborn Phase. It’s remembered for many things that on balance cover the complete spectrum. I am not completely sure that the race victories carried the same feeling in the press and public eye as that of the media propaganda. I know which lives on the strongest today and I suspect will get the most coverage IF such a name should return.

It would appear that the forget part is just too vital to get the seal of approval. I agree 100%. A modern GTHO does have to pay homage to its past. It can’t be a HO unless it does. I guess I differ on which aspects of its past and how Ford can prove those in the public eye are the important ones. I think it can be done but I am not sure the pain is worth it.

We do have a real GT. Unless people are saying the modern version of the GT40 isn't suitable or worthy I am not sure what we are talking about. I mean if we want racing heritage it doesn't get better then the GT40 on a world stage. Did Ford not do the 2003 project correctly??? I can't recall too many people saying the current US GT isn't fitting of the image and history from which it is based.

On projects as diverse from Aston Martin and Jaguar, generally considered untouchable British heritage, under Ford stewardship, I believe they have shown impeccable understanding of the value and place of history. It can’t be exact. That wont work, but it can be done if the motivation and reasons with in the company gel.

And on that bombshell I rest.

[Ghiadude]

jeezzzuuuuzzz!!!!

one guy comes on here and says i saw a car with scoops and suddenly you blokes are debating if the HO was a good road car or not???

what he maybe saw was someones modified BA with a car bra...GTHO buh

ILL BELIEVE IT ONLY WHEN I SEE IT.
although a power upgrade to boss engined vehicles around about the time of VE release does make sense but going from 290 to 330 kw is a helluva step!

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

There is so much BS is this thread it isn't funny. First off, Lincolns aren't even made in RHD, and if Ford can't sell Fairlanes then why would they sell Lincolns. WTF. Secondly, just because a car had a different bonnet on it then why is it suddenly a HO. There has been speculation on Ford putting vents on the Boss bonnet ever since the BA was released. Twin superchargers, that only proves that this whole thread is just made up. I've heard Elvis is going to appear at the Commonwealth games opening ceremony.

I never said Ford were going to do it, I said they were looking into it as a way to combat GMH with the cadillac. F250 trucks weren't made in RHD either, I suppose its just an optical illusion then.
Seriously, people who post such veracious replies lambasting others posts either have an Oedipus complex or lack the mental capacity to have reasonable debate. I'm glad people like you head up the marketing department of Ford - they're now in safe hands.

[ltd]

People often ask about how ford made the AU, well reading the supposedly faithful denounce anything that has a badge that was on a car 30 years ago, one can be forgiven for asking why ford was confused, if this post is anything to go by.