Today's Cars Guide article about Ford

Syndrome · 10-04-2015, 01:46 PM

I normally don't have time for Paul Gover. However his article today is 100% correct. Ford have been wanting to close their Australian operation for the last twenty years as it has never been part of the "One Ford" plan which was launched in the early 1990s.

I remember I had just joined the local auto supplier industry in the early 1990s and can clearly remember the real concern in the industry that there would be no new Falcon model after the EL and then the huge relief when Ford announced the AU program.

The importing of the Taurus in the mid 1990s was a test by Ford to see if they can sell an imported model which was a Falcon sized alternative.

The signs were clearly evident at that time and have been since then. I put the pieces together in about 2007 that Ford Australia was finished so was not surprised in 2013 when the announcement was made to terminate the local production activities.

The only bright period in the last twenty years was when the late Geoff Polities was in charge and was a man who knew the Australia market and the typical Ford buyer. It was during his reign that the Raptor, Barra and Orion programs were approved. The early part of the 00s was a great period for Ford Australia. Once he departed the decline set in.

People have often mentioned on this forum about the lack of advertising of the Falcon product. It is a deliberate ploy by the parent company. However it is backfiring on them as their attempt to undermine the Falcon has tarnished the Ford brand so their imported models which are decent cars are not selling as well as they should.

Ford in Australia has been aligned with Falcon so long that the two were synonymous.
=>If Falcon was regarded as good, Ford was also good.
=>If Falcon was regarded as bad, Ford was also bad.

You reap what you sow.......

http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news...8#.VSdDEZXGOpo

usernametaken · 10-04-2015, 01:56 PM

...and this is how Ford see themselves winning back the hearts and minds of the driving public.

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/f...09-1mh3kv.html

**Polyal** · 10-04-2015, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usernametaken

...and this is how Ford see themselves winning back the hearts and minds of the driving public.

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/f...09-1mh3kv.html

As long as its factual and done in a sporting manner I have no issue with it.

csv8 · 10-04-2015, 03:25 PM

Euro/Thai Fords need a price reduction. Focus ST is well priced. If Mondeo Titanium was around $39k, it will have a chance but at $45k+????????? If Fiesta Ambiente was $14,990 drive away sales would improve against Mazda 2, New ad comparing the Fiesta to Yaris????its competitor is Mazda 2...Cannt compare Camry v Mondeo..totally different cars..Camry will sell on price, its $6k cheaper..Ford need a total new marketing team......

madmelon · 10-04-2015, 03:47 PM

All current Fords need a serious weight reduction. I read with interest the article on the Mondeo and love the new look, tech and powertrains. Then I took a look at the kerb masses, as I always do. Why does a FWD car this size need to be 1600+kg? Just about all their competitors are lighter:
(Kerb mass)
Mazda 6- 1452kg
Camry- 1465kg
Liberty- (1502kg- Tare mass, which is usually within 100kg of kerb and this has 4WD!)
Sonata- 1587kg
Malibu- 1588kg
Mondeo- 1607kg

That's all the base models in the class. Why is Mondeo so heavy!?

Road_Warrior · 10-04-2015, 03:49 PM

The decline in the large car segment started in the EL days and of course led Ford to forecast into the 10 year-plus period to see what the market would look like, bearing in mind other factors that were crucial to a car maker at the time, as they are now (ACIS, tariff reductions, Free Trade Agreements, market changes, global economic conditions and emerging markets becoming manufacturing hubs. I’d wager Holden did the same although they didn’t quite have the foresight Ford did.

Ford’s research told them that within a 10 year period the ‘staple’ large car segment would be a hollow shell of what it once was in its heyday, so in order to survive as a manufacturer they had to diversify the production of locally made cars and perhaps expand upon the already extensive R&D facility that Ford Australia had; firstly by competing for development work for products that were for markets outside of Australia and secondly investment in the facilities there. It was a hedge against detrimental changes in the future.

Part of the diversification plan referred to above was of course the Territory. A masterstroke at the time, Wheels Magazine called it ‘an X5 for Falcon bucks’ but Geoff Polites knew that such a vehicle was needed because his days as a Dealer Principal told him that customers wanted it. Ford’s formal market research also told Ford customers wanted it, and predicted a market shift to high-riding vehicles.

The problem with the Territory is that Ford failed to make follow-on investments to the platform to keep it competitive. When you delve into the reasons why, it is easy to come up with a root cause in that the revolving door of leadership through the CEO’s office of Ford Australia contributed to the problem because it destabilised the organisation, introduced leaders who were indifferent to the products they were supposed to have a passion for, disrupted already approved plans and strategies, and anecdotally had a hidden agenda given to them from high up the chain.

During this time, the Feds wanted to roll back tariffs and the AICS. Ford warned the Productivity Commission in 2002 that pulling the tariffs back past the 10% marker and meddling with the AICS would prove detrimental to the car industry in the long term. Ford’s warnings were ignored. Who was right I wonder?

I would suggest that in terms of a long term view, FoMoCo got the ball rolling in 2005-2005 to shut down Ford Australia as a manufacturer by shunting Geoff Polites off to JLR. He was a hindrance to their plans; there is no other explanation for the revolving door of CEO’s in the years since. The actual button was pushed in 2010-2011 once the market forces had done their job and the local arm had been shut out of export opportunities and development funds which effectively sounded the death knell for any chance of long term survival of local products.

usernametaken · 10-04-2015, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

As long as its factual and done in a sporting manner I have no issue with it.

Agreed. But unfortunately it comes off as snide and condescending. Time to lose that woman 'sales rep'. She's doing more damage than good now.

**Polyal** · 10-04-2015, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usernametaken

Agreed. But unfortunately it comes off as snide and condescending. Time to lose that woman 'sales rep'. She's doing more damage than good now.

Yeah she makes me cringe.

XR Martin · 10-04-2015, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

Euro/Thai Fords need a price reduction. Focus ST is well priced. If Mondeo Titanium was around $39k, it will have a chance but at $45k+????????? If Fiesta Ambiente was $14,990 drive away sales would improve against Mazda 2, New ad comparing the Fiesta to Yaris????its competitor is Mazda 2...Cannt compare Camry v Mondeo..totally different cars..Camry will sell on price, its $6k cheaper..Ford need a total new marketing team......

Top of the line Mazda 3 is $45k, and top of the line Mazda 6 is nearly $55k, Liberty $60k

Mondeo isnt a budget car like the Camry by any stretch.

Camry is cheaper than a Corolla sedan! How long do you think it will stay that cheap?

Bossxr8 · 10-04-2015, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndrome

I normally don't have time for Paul Gover. However his article today is 100% correct. Ford have been wanting to close their Australian operation for the last twenty years as it has never been part of the "One Ford" plan which was launched in the early 1990s.

I remember I had just joined the local auto supplier industry in the early 1990s and can clearly remember the real concern in the industry that there would be no new Falcon model after the EL and then the huge relief when Ford announced the AU program.

The importing of the Taurus in the mid 1990s was a test by Ford to see if they can sell an imported model which was a Falcon sized alternative.

The signs were clearly evident at that time and have been since then. I put the pieces together in about 2007 that Ford Australia was finished so was not surprised in 2013 when the announcement was made to terminate the local production activities.

The only bright period in the last twenty years was when the late Geoff Polities was in charge and was a man who knew the Australia market and the typical Ford buyer. It was during his reign that the Raptor, Barra and Orion programs were approved. The early part of the 00s was a great period for Ford Australia. Once he departed the decline set in.

People have often mentioned on this forum about the lack of advertising of the Falcon product. It is a deliberate ploy by the parent company. However it is backfiring on them as their attempt to undermine the Falcon has tarnished the Ford brand so their imported models which are decent cars are not selling as well as they should.

Ford in Australia has been aligned with Falcon so long that the two were synonymous.
=>If Falcon was regarded as good, Ford was also good.
=>If Falcon was regarded as bad, Ford was also bad.

You reap what you sow.......

http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news...8#.VSdDEZXGOpo

One Ford didn't come into being until Mullally arrived prior to the GFC, sometime around 07/08?

But I agree about Ford deliberately trying to kill off Falcon by not advertising it etc.

mik · 11-04-2015, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmelon

All current Fords need a serious weight reduction. I read with interest the article on the Mondeo and love the new look, tech and powertrains. Then I took a look at the kerb masses, as I always do. Why does a FWD car this size need to be 1600+kg? Just about all their competitors are lighter:
(Kerb mass)
Mazda 6- 1452kg
Camry- 1465kg
Liberty- (1502kg- Tare mass, which is usually within 100kg of kerb and this has 4WD!)
Sonata- 1587kg
Malibu- 1588kg
Mondeo- 1607kg

That's all the base models in the class. Why is Mondeo so heavy!?

its probably the extra electricals, electric steering column, turn corner headlights, etc, and more air bags.

1TUFFUTE · 11-04-2015, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

its probably the extra electricals, electric steering column, turn corner headlights, etc, and more air bags.

Lol, does it even mater? As long as it's competitive at worst in efficiency and abilities!

And I believe ford Didn't just press the button years ago to give ford aus the flick. Aslong as they could stay making money and viable they were given more time. Why else would they continue to update territory and multiple falcon models.....including whole knew falcon models and engine packages not seen anywhere else in the world.eg(diesel terri,5.0SC, ecolpi falcon)

No doubt they could see it coming, and it's easy to see the way they've reacted to that situation. But it's clear they were given a pretty fair crack at holding on aslong as they could.

EB# · 11-04-2015, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usernametaken

...and this is how Ford see themselves winning back the hearts and minds of the driving public.
http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/f...09-1mh3kv.html

Ford attack ads?
Those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.....

Dr Smith · 11-04-2015, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

its probably the extra electricals, electric steering column, turn corner headlights, etc, and more air bags.

Agree, you need to match specs first and then see how they all compare. Mondeo in Australia has a higher base spec list then it's competitors.

usernametaken · 11-04-2015, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EB#

Ford attack ads?
Those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.....

Exactly.

can't wait to see the adds stating 'our diff bushes out last Ford' or 'our transmissions won't milkshake...'

lol

**GasoLane** · 11-04-2015, 09:20 AM

Nothing new really, a while ago Toyota ran TV campaign of their 4WD's with the catch phrase of "protect yourself from Volvo drivers"

Syndrome · 11-04-2015, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The decline in the large car segment started in the EL days and of course led Ford to forecast into the 10 year-plus period to see what the market would look like, bearing in mind other factors that were crucial to a car maker at the time, as they are now (ACIS, tariff reductions, Free Trade Agreements, market changes, global economic conditions and emerging markets becoming manufacturing hubs. I’d wager Holden did the same although they didn’t quite have the foresight Ford did.

That is correct but Ford could have gone down fighting instead of choosing the soft-Richard route they took.

Sprintey · 11-04-2015, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndrome

That is correct but Ford could have gone down fighting instead of choosing the soft-Richard route they took.

I've quite admired how GM-H have gone down fighting - putting in the extra engineering effort to deliver a truly competitive large car as their last effort. I admire it as much as I abhor GM destroying their bondholders when declaring bankruptcy in the GFC.

That aside, as a consumer if I want a last Australian-made car before we exit the OECD top-20 economies, look at what is offered through the respective ranges: I'll have the technologically up to date Holden RWD wagon that can have 6/V8/lpg, has a fully marketed range including luxury and sports, run on E85 if I wish, that steers and rides beautifully. Maybe I can get 2.

1TUFFUTE · 12-04-2015, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprintey

I've quite admired how GM-H have gone down fighting - putting in the extra engineering effort to deliver a truly competitive large car as their last effort. I admire it as much as I abhor GM destroying their bondholders when declaring bankruptcy in the GFC.

That aside, as a consumer if I want a last Australian-made car before we exit the OECD top-20 economies, look at what is offered through the respective ranges: I'll have the technologically up to date Holden RWD wagon that can have 6/V8/lpg, has a fully marketed range including luxury and sports, run on E85 if I wish, that steers and rides beautifully. Maybe I can get 2.

You may aswell buy 2.....your taxes will have probably payed for 4 by the time they close shop!

Sprintey · 12-04-2015, 12:13 AM

Reading the article you linked Syndrome, it would seem that Ford Australia really should have been its own entity. Some Presidents have come down here and gone 'Ned Kelly' when they realise the unique nature of the market and product and have been punished for this; and Ford America really doesn't have a clue as to what worked/works in Australia. They haven't deserved to own Ford Australia for the last 25 years- FOA being the collection of manufacturing facilities and design and manufacture capability, but that's life and that's who has the capital.

As for John Ogden, I tip my hat every time he welcomes me to the car on the first page of the owner manual of the Sprint.

Sprintey · 12-04-2015, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

You may aswell buy 2.....your taxes will have probably payed for 4 by the time they close shop!

Like the student guild subsidising beer at the Uni tavern in the 1990's, good times

Road_Warrior · 12-04-2015, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndrome

That is correct but Ford could have gone down fighting instead of choosing the soft-Richard route they took.

They couldn't "go down fighting" because Dearborn had them by the balls with one hand and the other hand firmly around their throat.

Yellow_Festiva · 12-04-2015, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

As long as its factual and done in a sporting manner I have no issue with it.

I think they should change their approach - I recall seeing Ford NA advertising where they state 'best in class', rather than actually state the other brands and models specifically.

If they keep going with the direct comparisons (attacks??) it will just promote the opposition to counter attack - or improve their product to make it better.

And their pockets are deeper than ours...