Blown Engine Warranty Claim Denied

wilko7 · 12-03-2016, 05:07 PM

My 2013 Ford Focus ST which is still under Ford warranty blew its engine last week.

After being recovered to the Ford dealer i purchased it from and the engine stripped down, it was found that a piston had failed. (Broken around the ringlands)*

My engine had two modifications to it those being a cold air intake pipe and a sound symposer blanking plate.

Ford have denied my warranty claim because of one of the modifications the sound symposer blanking plate. Their explanation (fords according to the dealership ) is that "the symposer blanking plate has caused excessive pressure within the inlet manifold which in turn produced too much heat and thus the piston has failed"*

This was verbally given to me over the telephone by my service manager. I am yet to receive this outcome / explanation in writing. I have requested this from Ford Customer Relations but have been told it will take several weeks to compile.

In relation to fords explanation i know this to be incorrect and have had a qualified mechanic provide me with evidence to that fact.

I have also done some research in relation to other customer's that have suffered the same fate and i have, both stock engines and modified engines have suffered from the symptoms as i have but they do not have a blanking plate therefore again proving fords explanation incorrect.

Has anyone got any advice or know anyone that has suffered the same issues as me?

marg99 · 12-03-2016, 05:14 PM

shows the hazards of modifications for warranty claims. If it was no 3 piston it will be overheating related as this is the cylinder with the least effective water cooling on most engines.

wilko7 · 12-03-2016, 05:20 PM

It just doesnt pay to be honest, should have just removed the mods and played dumb. After all i never thought those kind of mods would jeopardize the warranty. The burdon of proof is on them to show the modification had either a direct or indirect effect /contribution to the failure

CatonaPC© · 13-03-2016, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilko7

The burdon of proof is on them to show the modification had either a direct or indirect effect /contribution to the failure

This is from a standard Ford warranty:
Unless Ford expressly agrees, the Ford Vehicle Warranty will not apply to any defect in, or which is attributable to, or to the use of, any Modification made to the Vehicle unless such Modification has been made by or at the direction of, Ford.

As it is has been explained to you that your mod has caused the damage to the piston, it is likely Ford have sufficient information to knock back the warranty claim.

It would be a real stretch to argue that the mod had nothing to do with the piston failure

Mulga · 14-03-2016, 06:47 AM

Wilko7, in relation to your comment "I have also done some research in relation to other customer's that have suffered the same fate and i have, both stock engines and modified engines have suffered from the symptoms as i have but they do not have a blanking plate therefore again proving fords explanation incorrect" Do these other customers also have ST's, as this is the first time I've read about this issue??

I can tell you from experience, unfortunately you've got a hell of job trying to convince Ford to repair it under warranty. I know it's difficult, but i understand Fords position on this, if they allow the claim, they are effectively saying it's OK to mod your car, as we'll honor the warranty. Maybe you can ask Ford to produce proof that the delete will in-fact cause overheating. There are plenty guys on this Forum that have ST's which have the symposer delete installed.

Another option is to raise this with the company that sells the symposer delete....maybe they can provide you with some info to assist with your claim.

**fordomatic** · 18-03-2016, 01:20 AM

You play you pay, hindsight is a wonderful thing

**DJM83** · 18-03-2016, 01:31 AM

Also having an engine tune might cause this.....

Had a symposer delete on my car for a while now and no issues.

WILDB · 18-03-2016, 01:41 AM

Sounds like it ran lean and overheated the piston in that cylinder. Was your vehicle tuned?

If it was, even if you flash it to stock Ford's warranty division will be able to tell if they read the ECU - which is standard practice. The dealer can't tell on their IDS admittedly.

GTLEGEND · 22-03-2016, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilko7

It just doesnt pay to be honest, should have just removed the mods and played dumb. After all i never thought those kind of mods would jeopardize the warranty. The burdon of proof is on them to show the modification had either a direct or indirect effect /contribution to the failure

Incorrect, if you take this to a Fair Trading tribunal, the burdon of proof is on the owner to prove what the manufacturing defect is, regardless if it modified or not because the applicant is taking it to tribunal, you have to provide evidence to support your claim...

marg99 · 22-03-2016, 08:50 PM

you will need a expert mechanical witness to explain what happened and why, At your own expense. That gets you to the point where they have to bring their own expert to say why they can deny the warranty. Your problem if the cause was overheating of the piston is it needs to be such that the modifications did not contribute to it. If your expert who needs to be a qualified mechanic with experience in identifying engine faults says the mods did not contribute you have Ford on the back foot.

GTLEGEND · 23-03-2016, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marg99

you will need a expert mechanical witness to explain what happened and why, At your own expense. That gets you to the point where they have to bring their own expert to say why they can deny the warranty. Your problem if the cause was overheating of the piston is it needs to be such that the modifications did not contribute to it. If your expert who needs to be a qualified mechanic with experience in identifying engine faults says the mods did not contribute you have Ford on the back foot.

You will find that you really need an engineer not a mechanic as most mechanics will not be able to identify or provide "failure mode analysis" that is required to explain the failure at an engineering capacity. PS Engineers are not cheap!!

nuthin' fancy · 24-03-2016, 08:12 AM

Warranty is insurance and the job of any insurance company is to say no at every opportunity.

Is there an industry body such as VACC or RACV (or your state equivalent) who can act as your advocate?

Is the failure of the piston a recognised problem around the world?

wilko7 · 24-03-2016, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuthin' fancy

Warranty is insurance and the job of any insurance company is to say no at every opportunity.

Is there an industry body such as VACC or RACV (or your state equivalent) who can act as your advocate?

Is the failure of the piston a recognised problem around the world?

It does appear to be an issue all over the world, mostly in the US on both stock and tuned vehicles. The pistons (only seen a few pics ) appear to be breaking in the same place. Which although im not a mechanical engineer would indicate a weak point on the piston. However when i bought this to Ford Australias attention it was dismissed stating they cant comment on other vehicles only mine. Yes im getting an RAA inspection report. Getting very long in the tooth now and i cant be without my car for too much longer so i will dump a used engine in but still fight it. The 2.0 ecoboost engine in the LW2 has been redesigned lasting only 4yrs in production. So all new 2.0 ecoboost engines are different to the point very few parts be interchangeable.

nuthin' fancy · 24-03-2016, 08:53 AM

A mate of mine had an X3 BMW that blew a turbo. It was out of warranty.

BMW wouldn't accept that there was a design problem, but the oil pick up in the replacement turbo was of a different design.

Do your homework and present them with as much info as you can.

Good luck.

**DJM83** · 24-03-2016, 10:01 AM

Better hope it wasn't tuned, as soon as Ford read the ecu your toast. There is something going fishy going on here.

WILDB · 24-03-2016, 10:24 AM

You seem to be avoiding the flash tune topic. Has your ST been tuned, or is it running the stock tune?

99AUXR · 24-03-2016, 12:29 PM

Bet its stock. Everyone jumps on tuned.

However as above Ford will be able to tell if its been tuned by looking at the ECU for unauthorized re flashes. Which will show up even if the car has been tuned and returned to stock.

**DJM83** · 24-03-2016, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99AUXR

Bet its stock. Everyone jumps on tuned.

However as above Ford will be able to tell if its been tuned by looking at the ECU for unauthorized re flashes. Which will show up even if the car has been tuned and returned to stock.

I'm not jumping on the tuned band wagon. But the ST community is a vast one.

Anyway best of luck to the op, but if it had been tuned Ford will find it.

Blue Shadow · 24-03-2016, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

Better hope it wasn't tuned, as soon as Ford read the ecu your toast. There is something going fishy going on here.

If it has been to a dealer they would have read the ECU and keeping the results close to their chest for the hearing to put it to bed the first time

gassed250 · 25-03-2016, 06:26 PM

theres an ST engine on ebay for 2k

Mulga · 20-04-2016, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilko7

It does appear to be an issue all over the world, mostly in the US on both stock and tuned vehicles. The pistons (only seen a few pics ) appear to be breaking in the same place. Which although im not a mechanical engineer would indicate a weak point on the piston. However when i bought this to Ford Australias attention it was dismissed stating they cant comment on other vehicles only mine. Yes im getting an RAA inspection report. Getting very long in the tooth now and i cant be without my car for too much longer so i will dump a used engine in but still fight it. The 2.0 ecoboost engine in the LW2 has been redesigned lasting only 4yrs in production. So all new 2.0 ecoboost engines are different to the point very few parts be interchangeable.

Any updates on this???