Shifting into N at the lights

[Pepscobra]

Sorry if this seems a silly subject, but something I've been thinking about and I think others may do it also.
Recently, I've developed a habit of shifting into Nuetral when stopped at traffic lights. Do it every time now whether driving the new Territory or in the old Escape.
I noticed in the new Territory that the instant fuel reading drops as soon as I put it in N, so I assume I am reducing consumption as well as load on the gearbox.
I do a lot of stop-start peak hour driving, so my question is: am I doing more harm than good to the gearbox by constantly shifting between D and N?

[TheInterceptor]

Hi there! Every time you select d again it activates the bands in the box to select first. This will eventually lead to premature wear of the bands. So short term fuel savings but long term gearbox failure.

Not recommended!

[Pepscobra]

Ok, thanks, glad I posted the question.
Will try to break the habit ASAP.

[TheInterceptor]

Haha no worries mate! Good call

[madmelon]

I did a test with this on my BF with the ZF 6 speed. Fuel consumption in gear was identical to neutral- 1.3L/hr. There will be a different result with the 4 speed because the torque converter, idle speed, internal design are different.

[Mechan1k]

I do it in the FIL's BFII ute ... cos the engine mounts are dead and the whole ute vibrates like crazy when stationary in D. Been like this for a long time as well ... as he CBF replacing the engine amounts again in it.

Oh ... ye old original 4-speed has done 500,000km on factory heat exchanger and original fill transmission fluid as well. Still shifts good even when cold.

[superyob]

I sometimes shift into neutral to prevent my brutal 220 horsepower 302W accidentally breaking through the intersection when stopped at a red light...

[EB#]

I opt for neutral (BTR 4 sp) when at traffic lights, when it looks like a longish wait. I find it's easier to just idle, with minimal pressure on the brake pedal.

I wouldn't have thought this practice would place additional wear and tear on the tranny at all - It's just part and parcel of regular driving and transmission use.

[simon varley]

I opt for neutral when my left foot aches on the clutch pedal. What is this D you talk of?

[X-AHH]

Originally Posted by EB#

I opt for neutral (BTR 4 sp) when at traffic lights, when it looks like a longish wait. I find it's easier to just idle, with minimal pressure on the brake pedal.

I wouldn't have thought this practice would place additional wear and tear on the tranny at all - It's just part and parcel of regular driving and transmission use.

I also shift to N if it's going to be more than 30 seconds or so waiting times.

Have done this for the last 40 years in many vehicles and never had any issues with premature transmission failures etc.

[Sioso]

If you decide to get on the brake while in "N" there will only be loud revving - no spinning or smoking, best to leave it in "D"

[mac_man_luke]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Hi there! Every time you select d again it activates the bands in the box to select first. This will eventually lead to premature wear of the bands. So short term fuel savings but long term gearbox failure.

Not recommended!

Modern gearbox such as the ZF does not have bands, uses clutch packs.

[adumb]

Good habit to have to keep your discs from warping too especially after a hard/long stop.

[Sox]

Slipping it into neutral won't have any negative effect on the tranny.
In fact I believe Ford recommend this practice on very hot days in traffic.


I should add though, I can't see it saving much fuel, the torque convertor isn't locked up at idle anyhow, so the load on the engine is negligible.

[malazn mafia]

How about shifting into N while going down an incline? Is this detrimental to the transmission?

[Sox]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

How about shifting into N while going down an incline? Is this detrimental to the transmission?

Shouldn't really worry it either, but I can't see why you'd want to.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Sox

Shouldn't really worry it either, but I can't see why you'd want to.

Just a weird tendency I developed. Kind of like the feeling of saving a few calories by not pedalling the pushbike while it is rolling downhill.

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

How about shifting into N while going down an incline? Is this detrimental to the transmission?

As long as the idle speed of the engine can spin the input shaft fast enough to pump enough oil to lubricate the bearings in the box, then it's all good.

They advise not to tow for long periods (or higher speeds) if you're spinning he tailshaft without the gearbox actually operating, as they rely on the pressure pump & circulating oil to lube it all.


In the old days they advised N as torque convertors did place a fair bit of drag on the crank, and generated heat this way, but it was more that the engine driven fan would spin at a slightly faster speed, and this would help with cooling.

In this day & age of thermo fans, this is no longer needed.

[4dlvr]

i put it in P because i cant be bothered keeping my foot on the brake!

[Sioso]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

How about shifting into N while going down an incline? Is this detrimental to the transmission?

Might be detrimental to your health - I was taught N is angel gear, as you'll eventually be surrounded by angels if you decide to use while driving.
Disconnecting the drivetrain from the motor will cause the car to behave differently, coast through a corner or roundabout while in N or have the clutch depressed and see how different it behaves , more here:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...-fuel-economy/

[OzJavelin]

In the Corvair I put the 'ole PowerGlide into neutral if waiting at lights ... transmission is aircooled

[ Younger readers might need to look that one up ]

[Optional]

Can't answer the transmission damage question but I think it leaves you unable to react to an emergency if needed.

[Sabantien]

I noticed the same thing with my ZF, the current fuel use does seem to drop a little. Unsure it'd make much of a difference, but I do sometimes swap it over if it's a long wait.

Surely if anything is going to cause excess wear it'd be sitting with the brake on while your car is trying to move? Switching it to N feels like it's suddenly not pulling on the leash and is relaxing.

Of course, you'll never win the traffic light drag race that way.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

How about shifting into N while going down an incline? Is this detrimental to the transmission?

Probably no noticeably but most engines switch fuel injection off if your coasting in gear (Falcons have done this since the EA's 4spd introduction), switching in neutral will cause the engine to drop to idle revs and effectively use more fuel vs leaving it in gear.

I wouldn't want to wack my Grand Cherokee in neutral while driving with it's 'slapstick' shifter though, probably get reverse if the computer doesn't lock it out!

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by Optional

Can't answer the transmission damage question but I think it leaves you unable to react to an emergency if needed.

This.

I was sitting at the lights when I could see the car behind me was about to get heavily rear ended so in the split second I had I went forward, if I had have stayed in the same spot I would have been hit as well by the car behind me.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Just a weird tendency I developed. Kind of like the feeling of saving a few calories by not pedalling the pushbike while it is rolling downhill.

If you are going downhill with no throttle, you will use more fuel on neutral than you will in gear. In neutral the engine is idling, burning fuel to keep the engine at 700rpm and prevent it from stalling. In gear, gravity is pulling the vehicle, rotating the wheels, driveshaft, transmission, and engine with no need to burn fuel. Unless a high compression engine is providing too much resistance, in gear is best.

[dunga]

wow i cant believe how much damage I am doing to my car warped discs , worn out bands and not enough oil to lubricate my transmission makes you want to buy a manual.

[66GT]

I was taught to leave in gear whether auto or manual, as above to move quickly if required & also in the unfortunate case where you are hit hard by some idiot, the vehicle hopefully will either stall or not take of uncontrollably potentially creating more of an issue. I've also been lightly hit in both the front & rear by people in N & rolling.

[dunga]

one advantage of leaving the transmission in drive is the gearbox is locked in first gear and is not turning wearing bearings and clutch packs the down side is the torque converter is slipping generating slightly more heat so there is for and against for selecting neutral or drive.

[CoupeKing]

Where are MYTHBUSTERS when you need them.

Not that it means much, but I've been in a fair share of Taxi'a and never noticed them do it.