New Explorer and Aviator to debut new RWD CD6 platform?

[janddbone]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/li...mag=cdb&dom=fb

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/01/31/...plorer-rwd-st/

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...rwd-crossover/

[jpd80]

And I can guess where the American got their RWD inspiration from

[tranquilized]

Interesting point in the Car and Driver article that one of the primary reasons for going RWD is aesthetics.

They wanted the long dash to axle ratio! Something I bang on about a lot to anyone who'll listen... No large car can look good if it's FWD, or a transverse based AWD - the front wheels end up in the wrong spot.

[malazn mafia]

So they spend 5 billion dollars building a RWD biased architecture. It was already developed down under decades ago and just needed a small freshen up to be relevant again, probably could have been done with just 500 million... They'd better do the next Exploder in RHD for the Aus market as consolation ... And name it Territory

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by jpd80

And I can guess where the American got their RWD inspiration from

The old Explorer? Expedition? F-Series? Crown Vic, Town Car, Mustang, old Cougar, Bronco, the original Falcon that the Australian Falcon was based on? Model T? I’m guessing none of those are what you were implying.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by chevypower

The old Explorer? Expedition? F-Series? Crown Vic, Town Car, Mustang, old Cougar, Bronco, the original Falcon that the Australian Falcon was based on? Model T? I’m guessing none of those are what you were implying.

Detroit wasted all those years going FWD, then came full circle and went back to RWD. Broadmeadows persisted with the RWD concept from the 60s, so they had a good thing going on all this time and went unnoticed...

[JC]

Originally Posted by chevypower

The old Explorer? Expedition? F-Series? Crown Vic, Town Car, Mustang, old Cougar, Bronco, the original Falcon that the Australian Falcon was based on? Model T? I’m guessing none of those are what you were implying.

Apart from mustang, all went FWD so definitely no inspiration there.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

So they spend 5 billion dollars building a RWD biased architecture. It was already developed down under decades ago and just needed a small freshen up to be relevant again, probably could have been done with just 500 million... They'd better do the next Exploder in RHD for the Aus market as consolation ... And name it Territory

It was always the plan, but the GFC killed it. The Global RWD platform would probably have saved the Falcon too, if not FoA manufacturing ,which would probably have ended up dead anyway, unless exports markets could have been found. It was all in motion when the GFC happened and Ford had to cancel the whole program because it needed to save money.

As for the E8 Falcon platform, it was well past it's used by date. By a long way. There's no way it would have been re-used.

[janddbone]

Sadly with Ford losing all interest in sedans, we are not likely to see a 'Falcon' type sedan, we can live in hope.

Product certainly looking more desirable since Mulally departed, starting to see all of Fields work filter through. So let's hope Ford can continue to combine the two ideas together and make money from desirable cars!

[Nu66et]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Interesting point in the Car and Driver article that one of the primary reasons for going RWD is aesthetics.

They wanted the long dash to axle ratio! Something I bang on about a lot to anyone who'll listen... No large car can look good if it's FWD, or a transverse based AWD - the front wheels end up in the wrong spot.

RWD is no gurantee of getting that right. Just compare the front proportions between a VE Commodore and FG Falcon. Ford wanting this as a modular drivetrain platform will make that difficult as well

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Nu66et

RWD is no gurantee of getting that right. Just compare the front proportions between a VE Commodore and FG Falcon. Ford wanting this as a modular drivetrain platform will make that difficult as well

This is true. I remember threads on exactly this on here years ago. I even posted a few photoshops I did of FG's with the front wheels pushed out towards the front. Looked great! But the Falcons almost FWD proportions are a result of the ancient platform on which it was based. VE was a clean sheet, and I remember reading about internal battles within Holden between bean counters, stylists, and engineers about getting that crucial proportion right, and how difficult it was to achieve.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

As for the E8 Falcon platform, it was well past it's used by date. By a long way. There's no way it would have been re-used.

I love the Falcon, I bleed Falcon blood and its what galvanised me as a Ford man. The Falcon was a dam good car, a car with a multitude of talents and full of character and heritage. I would defend it to the grave, but the fact is the E8 platform had many limitations preventing it from being used to form a range of future models.

Nothing short of an all new platform would deliver the expected safety, weight saving and packaging needed going forward. Not to mention Fords expansion of hybrid and electric powertrains needed to meet US CAFE economy standards.

You only need to look under the bonnet of an FG to see the layers of inner panels grafted over the top of the bones that formed in the E series. This helped with crash safety but added weight explains why the FG Falcons had such a long front overhang, something that a RWD platform should eliminate.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Interesting point in the Car and Driver article that one of the primary reasons for going RWD is aesthetics.

They wanted the long dash to axle ratio! Something I bang on about a lot to anyone who'll listen... No large car can look good if it's FWD, or a transverse based AWD - the front wheels end up in the wrong spot.

I would normally agree with the above. However I think Volvo have done great work in disguising their new S90 models FWD platform. Long dash to axle ratio with a well contained front overhang.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I would normally agree with the above. However I think Volvo have done great work in disguising their new S90 models FWD platform. Long dash to axle ratio with a well contained front overhang.

Yes! I've noticed that as well, they look awesome.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by janddbone

Sadly with Ford losing all interest in sedans, we are not likely to see a 'Falcon' type sedan, we can live in hope.

It's not Ford losing interest in sedans, it's the market. All the euro sedan sales are in free fall - Benz & BMW used to build nothing else, now sedans make up a tiny fraction of their production. Stinger, Panamera, Commodore - all kinda look like sedans but are actually hatches. Who wants a sedan? Certainly not me, or 99% of the car buying public...

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

It's not Ford losing interest in sedans, it's the market. All the euro sedan sales are in free fall - Benz & BMW used to build nothing else, now sedans make up a tiny fraction of their production. Stinger, Panamera, Commodore - all kinda look like sedans but are actually hatches. Who wants a sedan? Certainly not me, or 99% of the car buying public...

I’m surprised it’s taken the public this long to realise that sedans are the least versatile, most boring form of car.
Of the 20 or so cars I’ve owned, only 2 have been sedans for the fact that if you want a large sedan, a wagon is more practical and more handy. If you don’t need the extra space then likely a coupe or hatch is more suited. Rarely is a sedan just the perfect size.

[janddbone]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

It's not Ford losing interest in sedans, it's the market. All the euro sedan sales are in free fall - Benz & BMW used to build nothing else, now sedans make up a tiny fraction of their production. Stinger, Panamera, Commodore - all kinda look like sedans but are actually hatches. Who wants a sedan? Certainly not me, or 99% of the car buying public...

Hyundai/Kia would prove otherwise.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by janddbone

Hyundai/Kia would prove otherwise.

How many Kia and Hyundai sedans are there?

[Dr Smith]

Who would have thought even a few years ago that US Ford interiors now crap all over their Euro designed models..maybe Mondeo is the exception but it has a Fusion to share. I personally think the Focus/Fiesta's largest downfalls are their interiors over the competition. Completely dump all dsg's, get Aussies/Americans on the interior design teams and maybe market share will grow.

Maybe it's my stage in life and the fact I actually nolonger like stooping down to get into sedans however I am in love with the 2019 Lincoln Aviation.... if the suggestions are correct the next Explorer will also be fantastic as my first-hand experiences last Christmas in the US showed, the current one is a great looking vehicle and gets great reviews.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by chevypower

The old Explorer? Expedition? F-Series? Crown Vic, Town Car, Mustang, old Cougar, Bronco, the original Falcon that the Australian Falcon was based on? Model T? I’m guessing none of those are what you were implying.

Those have neither the recency nor the flexibility of design to be considered,
something much closer to home acted as inspiration, especially after being blocked
nearly 10 years ago..

Blend the premium of DEW with the affordability and practicality of Falcon / Territory
and you get a platform that gives both premium and affordable products
that cover all needs..

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

So they spend 5 billion dollars building a RWD biased architecture. It was already developed down under decades ago and just needed a small freshen up to be relevant again, probably could have been done with just 500 million... They'd better do the next Exploder in RHD for the Aus market as consolation ... And name it Territory

Ford is not spending $5 billion on CD6, that old report we've read is very erroneous
and also included the autonomous and electric vehicles programs and plants.


Given the product envelope being considered, Your $500 million would probably
cover the initial engineering architecture modules but not the developed vehicles.
Depending on Hackett's determination, this could go very well for Ford and its global customers

Enough for now, wait for details of Explorer...

In the meantime look at the Aviator beyond skin panels and imagine what you see...

[jpd80]

New CD6 SUVs and Mustang and Fusion, Edge, Continental all use the corporate Virtual Link IRS,
it allows allows for rear seat position in front of or in between rear wheels as required without
the limitations of control blade arms and Multi-link arm positions.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Those have neither the recency nor the flexibility of design to be considered,
something much closer to home acted as inspiration, especially after being blocked
nearly 10 years ago..

Blend the premium of DEW with the affordability and practicality of Falcon / Territory
and you get a platform that gives both premium and affordable products
that cover all needs..



Ford is not spending $5 billion on CD6, that old report we've read is very erroneous
and also included the autonomous and electric vehicles programs and plants.


Given the product envelope being considered, Your $500 million would probably
cover the initial engineering architecture modules but not the developed vehicles.
Depending on Hackett's determination, this could go very well for Ford and its global customers

Enough for now, wait for details of Explorer...

In the meantime look at the Aviator beyond skin panels and imagine what you see...

image
image

Great post JDP

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Those have neither the recency nor the flexibility of design to be considered,
something much closer to home acted as inspiration, especially after being blocked
nearly 10 years ago..

I don’t think they were “inspired” by any of their own products. I think they already know about the advantages of RWD. They are engineers. The Explorer would be closer to the Dodge Durango than the Territory. But they are going to have to do more than what Dodge did, because it’s not exactly a sales success. RWD platform is a great start, but it will have to keep that multi functionality that everyone’s looking for. I think the Durango is too sports-car like in terms of ground clearance and styling. It’s like they wanted to appeal to just the husband, but then the wife sees it to give her approval and she hates it. So then they go look at Acadias and Explorers.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by chevypower

I don’t think they were “inspired” by any of their own products. I think they already know about the advantages of RWD. They are engineers. The Explorer would be closer to the Dodge Durango than the Territory. But they are going to have to do more than what Dodge did, because it’s not exactly a sales success. RWD platform is a great start, but it will have to keep that multi functionality that everyone’s looking for. I think the Durango is too sports-car like in terms of ground clearance and styling. It’s like they wanted to appeal to just the husband, but then the wife sees it to give her approval and she hates it. So then they go look at Acadias and Explorers.

I think you're missing what I meant by inspiration, it's not just one vehicle, it's how they can develop
an architecture flexible enough to not only encompass an SUV and a car but also Mustang which was
always a huge challenge given it's rather unique proportion and seating position between the rear wheels.
Ford now has the basic engineering modules to accomplish that without forseeable compromise.

The main drivers with CD6 are the proportions achieved with RWD giving both improved looks and
driving dynamics as well as space efficiency afforded by longer wheelbase and less overhang.

In regards to D3 Explorer Vs Territory, I'll make this point - Internally, the two are eerily close
in leg room, hip and shoulder width, even cargo space is pretty close because the Territory
was a more efficient package in a similar length to the US Edge. CD6 Aviator looks to have
a longer wheelbase than the current Explorer, suggesting that the next Explorer could indeed
be bigger but not necessarily longer thanks to reduced overhang compared to FWD version.

In regards to sales and Production, Chicago AP has been on three shifts for years producing both
Explorer and Taurus at a combined total of around 31,000 units a month and with the demise of
Taurus, Ford is set to make room for Aviator there at the Taurus production level of around 5,000/mth.
Explorer is expected to continue at current production level of 26,000 a month.

More vehicles are said to be moving to CD6, will share with you when I have more details.

[chevypower]

^^ I’d love to see what else is going to CD6. I guess the Continental SHOULD have gone CD6. Maybe next gen?

[roKWiz]

I'm sorry, I'm not really a car guy so do not really understand why the worlds auto manufacturers need to go front wheel drive. Can someone explain it to me ?
I haven't seen a stylish one yet IMO.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I'm sorry, I'm not really a car guy so do not really understand why the worlds auto manufacturers need to go front wheel drive. Can someone explain it to me ?
I haven't seen a stylish one yet IMO.

Cheaper to make, more interior space, slightly better economy and safer in icy conditions like nth america.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by chevypower

^^ I’d love to see what else is going to CD6. I guess the Continental SHOULD have gone CD6. Maybe next gen?

Source suggests that replacement for Fusion /MKZ will be a CD6, insiders are still arguing over
confirmation of Edge / MKX-Nautilis, NG Continental will switch for sure as it's at Flat Rock with Mustang.

Thinking is that China will use evolved CD4 for their mid-large vehicles while USA uses CD6
Although Lincoln will be building Aviator in China as TTV6 and V6 PHEV.