Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

[Polyal]

So while its always been brewing the push for EV or alternative power plants its really starting to get some momentum, that topic aside for one minute have others felt a trend from manufacturers to really start going all out for what seems like "final versions".

Just a couple of examples off the top of my ead;

Nissan 400Z (company is in pain but sticks a TT V6 in it)
Subaru WRX Sti (a few recent articles on them getting to to 300kw)
Ford GT500 (really, thats insane HP)
Dodge/Mopar (pretty much all their line up has something shoved in it)

GM, im sure they are trying.

While it may seem like us dinosaurs are being left behind, and there is a mountain of electronic controls (must say they are mostly able to be turned off) I get the feeling manufacturers are putting a bit of effort in before a fuller transition is underway.

When you look at the hyper/sports car scene its already there, not to many that are sticking with the traditional ICE.

Its not all going to end in 5 years, but 10, 15....enjoy!

[lumen8]

Well Ford did just make a larger 7.3 v8 for trucks, and apparently a smaller version of that is coming for cars.

Im not convinced yet that EV's will replace ICE in stuff that hauls a lot of weight, so the v8 might live on yet.

On the flip side, GM is offering an electric powerplant for retrofits, with their traditional transmission bolt pattern theyve kept the same all these years, it will bolt straight up to their automatics... so electric older cars will happen also.

[Falcon SXR8]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Nissan 400Z (company is in pain but sticks a TT V6 in it)
Subaru WRX Sti (a few recent articles on them getting to to 300kw)
Ford GT500 (really, thats insane HP)
Dodge/Mopar (pretty much all their line up has something shoved in it)

GM, im sure they are trying.

I get the feeling manufacturers are putting a bit of effort in before a fuller transition is underway.

When you look at the hyper/sports car scene its already there, not to many that are sticking with the traditional ICE.

Its not all going to end in 5 years, but 10, 15....enjoy!

I think its more to do with the fact that electric is still not doable in a reasonable price range. Its easy in a hypercar as those buyers will pay the big dollars to cover it.

From what ive seen from the big youtubers running expensive cars, most treat electric as a novelty. They go out for a rip say how fast they are then go back to there ice supercars/musclecars ect

It will be interesting to see how long it takes car enthusiasts to transition to electric, not just the general public. I feel it will be a while yet and it may end up being forced on us

[Polyal]

MG and others have flagged $30-40k EV's in the next year or so, I think the rate of change is going to be pretty quick.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...g-soon-127797/

Although I wouldn't go wading in it.

EV wont suit every application, but as a large % of us live in urban area's it can work.

No preaching here, I am more interested in manufacturers getting romantic and making sure some models go off on a high. Although CV may have impacted this with a lack of extra funds basically evaporating at the moment.

[Wretched]

EVs are coming - VW's ID3 and other like it are making inroads and at a reasonable price. They are NOT perfect but neither were their ICE counterparts.
Toyota has now also jumped onto the BEV market and will be bringing their shortly.

One market that will likely pick up is the classic conversion from ICE to EV. There are places in the UK that will do it without any chassis changes (for compliance). There is a NB Mazda MX5 converted to electric, almost retains its 50/50 weight distribution too.

[kypez]

Aston Martin still offer a manual with their Vantage which is great! Would I trade both Tesla's in for one, probably not but its an awesome car in this day and age. Funnily that Mercedes don't offer a manual with the same engine.

The MACH1 might be the last Muscle type Mustang that we get without some kind of electrification. I'm keen on getting one just for that. And that it will have a manual. The next gen going AWD doesn't really appeal to me but other might enjoy the extra traction.

Couple of swan songs being sung at the moment and they sound fantastic!

[Ben73]

It will be a long twilight.

I say get everyone into electric cars for daily boring commutes ASAP. Keep the fuel for big engine sports cars and other hobby vehicles.

There is approximately 15,521 days of oil left. Lets move away from letting non enthusiasts wasting it in their Mazda CX5 driving to and from work everyday.
Even charging electric cars on coal power plants is better. We have 148,635 days of coal left.

I have to say electric performance cars are good too before someone says "Ackchyually electric cars are fast"

[Franco Cozzo]

Whose going to be the first to overvolt the motors to make it go faster?

Is there going to be an aftermarket replacement motor controller that can deal with higher current or more voltage?

Replacement armatures for the motors? Bigger DC motors?

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Ben73

There is approximately 15,521 days of oil left.

where did you read this?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Whose going to be the first to overvolt the motors to make it go faster?

Is there going to be an aftermarket replacement motor controller that can deal with higher current or more voltage?

Replacement armatures for the motors? Bigger DC motors?

I reckon there is a market to get into now, like overclocking...LOL

But seriously yeah, its going to be a remapp and some thicker cables away?

Originally Posted by Ben73

It will be a long twilight.

I say get everyone into electric cars for daily boring commutes ASAP. Keep the fuel for big engine sports cars and other hobby vehicles.

There is approximately 15,521 days of oil left. Lets move away from letting non enthusiasts wasting it in their Mazda CX5 driving to and from work everyday.
Even charging electric cars on coal power plants is better. We have 148,635 days of coal left.

I have to say electric performance cars are good too before someone says "Ackchyually electric cars are fast"

In a perfect world I would be 100% OK with an EV for a daily and a muscle car/classic for the weekend. We will get there soon enough.

[Bossxr8]

It won't happen anytime soon, as ICE powered vehicles are subsidizing EV development and manufacture.

ICE vehicles won't start disappearing completely until EV's can pay their own way. The manufacturers have to hedge their bets at the moment and bring some EV's in they lose money on, and balance that by selling as many ICE's as they can to make money on.

[lumen8]

The Chevrolet Performance eCrate Is Here to Make Electric Drivetrain Swaps Easier Than Ever

https://www.thedrive.com/news/37354/...sier-than-ever

[CyberWasp]

You have Solid State Battery technology coming fast which is the next step in Battery Evolution. Smaller, more powerful, lighter, faster to charge ect.
You always be able to modify cars.
I am sure you will be able to upgrade electric motors and batteries ect as time rolls on.

[Peter B - CV8]

Takes me back to my slot car racing days. Blue dot magnets & pinion gear changes to suit the track...

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

You have Solid State Battery technology coming fast which is the next step in Battery Evolution. Smaller, more powerful, lighter, faster to charge ect.
You always be able to modify cars.
I am sure you will be able to upgrade electric motors and batteries ect as time rolls on.

Theres a problem with that

A solid-state battery is a battery technology that uses solid electrodes and a solid electrolyte, instead of the liquid or polymer gel electrolytes found in lithium-ion or lithium polymer batteries.[1][2] Materials proposed for use as solid electrolytes in solid-state batteries include ceramics (e.g. oxides, sulfides, phosphates), and solid polymers. Solid-state batteries have found use in pacemakers, RFID and wearable devices. They are potentially safer, with higher energy densities, but at a much higher cost.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I reckon there is a market to get into now, like overclocking...LOL

But seriously yeah, its going to be a remapp and some thicker cables away?




In a perfect world I would be 100% OK with an EV for a daily and a muscle car/classic for the weekend. We will get there soon enough.

I'd be keen on getting my hands on something like a Prius or Holden Volt and turning up the amps, surely it's under utilised in factory trim and the motor controller is limiting the current the motor is pulling.

The motor controller would be what needs to be beefed up to deal with the extra current, that'll be what burns out.

Depends on the factory wiring I guess but it wouldn't need to be too thick if you're pushing 400V one imagines.

I'm just speculating, I haven't touched an EV before, because you know, 400V DC electrical system BBQs humans.

Don't touch orange wires.

[roKWiz]

Was just checking out the lastest 2021 release from Newell motorhomes on youtube. 2.2m US.
50ft, 30 tons, quad slide outs, solid granite floors, big diesel genset, huge 15lt 605hp Cummins pusher, nah don't see these turning electric anytime soon.

Would need a small sub power station just to run the auxiliaries let alone push it down the road.

[lumen8]

[jpd80]

A lot of people discovered that they can work from home and save themselves up to two or three hours
of wasted time commuting to and from an office. People now realise how efficient online shopping is and
many will be doing their Christmas shopping on line and having it delivered.

So while electric vehicles are coming, it looks like a few changes in how society shops and works may
change how the future unfolds, things probably turn out a bit different to what we expect.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Was just checking out the lastest 2021 release from Newell motorhomes on youtube. 2.2m US.
50ft, 30 tons, quad slide outs, solid granite floors, big diesel genset, huge 15lt 605hp Cummins pusher, nah don't see these turning electric anytime soon.

Would need a small sub power station just to run the auxiliaries let alone push it down the road.

You Kenworth blokes just got electric wipers, let alone electric propulsion

[Sprintey]

Re: the electric commuter, I really like the idea of the MX-30. I know it gets flak for small battery/small motor, but it would be enough for our needs.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/906986/...uvs-confirmed/

I've let the Terry get old in our ownership, can't be fished in buying another ICE commuter/familywagen, and I have a couple of old V8's for the fun factor.

In the meantime, electric gurus of the site, what kind of solar extension (we have 5kw) would we need to keep the electric car happy? Battery banks or still on grid?

As for supercars/feel - the older and more human/mechanical the interaction, the more this will be valuable I feel.

[wodahs]

ill make no mistake in the belief EVs arnt comming but
surly theres an alternative fuel to fossil for the ICE other wise we are screwed as
i cant see EVs across the board for all common day dives , theres alot out there that just arnt going to be able to afford them all round the world nor could i see them being able to roll them out in such numbers fast enough
and then theres the car enthusiast in the US alone (and we all know how they just love giving up stuff as its their right) there is a lot of custom , vintage or hot/rat rod cars as second/third drives and i cant see these just going dormant over night with out a fight

and as such a statement EVs are needed as fuels running out well i dont see much on the market as electric water craft for recreational use and cant also see them going dormant over night either jet skis , ski boats , fishing boat and so on

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

where did you read this?

Worldometer.
They have estimated stats for a range of things.

https://www.worldometers.info/

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by wodahs

ill make no mistake in the belief EVs arnt comming but
surly theres an alternative fuel to fossil for the ICE other wise we are screwed as
i cant see EVs across the board for all common day dives , theres alot out there that just arnt going to be able to afford them all round the world nor could i see them being able to roll them out in such numbers fast enough
and then theres the car enthusiast in the US alone (and we all know how they just love giving up stuff as its their right) there is a lot of custom , vintage or hot/rat rod cars as second/third drives and i cant see these just going dormant over night with out a fight

and as such a statement EVs are needed as fuels running out well i dont see much on the market as electric water craft for recreational use and cant also see them going dormant over night either jet skis , ski boats , fishing boat and so on

Alternatives for ICE - E85, ethanol, algal ethanol, biodiesel, algal diesel, fishnchip oil etc etc
For eg, you can get a chip for the good ol Ford inline 6 and run on E85, can be done right now. Makes a difference, Aussie crops/sugar cane, Aussie farmers and Ethanol plants

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by wodahs

ill make no mistake in the belief EVs arnt comming but
surly theres an alternative fuel to fossil for the ICE other wise we are screwed as .......

Don't panic as ICE will still be in Oz well after most of us here are dead.

[sr71]

Porsche has just invested in the Haru Oni Project. It’s a Synthetic Fuel refinery in Chile, producing climate neutral fuel for their race cars. A whopping $32 million.
I’m guessing they needed to address this topic, and not lose any future sales from loyal owners and dreamers. Taycan sales alone won’t sustain them.
I’ve always liked Porsche, so at least there will be an option to buy and race ICE.

I reckon the dilemma in the next 10 years will be buying a dream car/supercar, that after a few years of ownership will be whipped by the 2030 family cars.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Worldometer.
They have estimated stats for a range of things.

https://www.worldometers.info/

Interesting site, there are a few thing where I would have to query their sources though.
money spent on illegal drugs for one... what do they count the receipts?

Things is with Oil.
The oil companies do not want to over supply we all know this drives the price per barrel down.
and we can only measure by what our current sources are taping from so
if an oil rug planted in the gulf of Mexico runs dry, pretty sure it will be shifted (with the Vanguard) to where the oil companies next planned location (not for public knowledge)

here's some previous predictions:

"The world will run out of oil in 10 years."
- U.S. Bureau of Mines (1914)
"The world will run out of oil in 13 years."
- U.S. Department of the Interior (1939 and 1950)
"The world will run out of oil and other fossil fuels by 1990."
- Paul Erlich, Limits to Growth (1973)
"The world will run out of oil in 2030, and other fossil fuels in 2050."
- Paul Erlich, Beyond the Limit (2002)




I dunno I personally believe there's plenty out there.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

here's some previous predictions:

"The world will run out of oil in 10 years."
- U.S. Bureau of Mines (1914)
"The world will run out of oil in 13 years."
- U.S. Department of the Interior (1939 and 1950)
"The world will run out of oil and other fossil fuels by 1990."
- Paul Erlich, Limits to Growth (1973)
"The world will run out of oil in 2030, and other fossil fuels in 2050."
- Paul Erlich, Beyond the Limit (2002)




I dunno I personally believe there's plenty out there.

Me Too..

[kypez]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Was just checking out the lastest 2021 release from Newell motorhomes on youtube. 2.2m US.
50ft, 30 tons, quad slide outs, solid granite floors, big diesel genset, huge 15lt 605hp Cummins pusher, nah don't see these turning electric anytime soon.

Would need a small sub power station just to run the auxiliaries let alone push it down the road.

Probably would benefit from a Hydrogen fuel cell. The electric motor is great for big torque applications and the Hydrogen fuel cell will make it lighter than an array of batteries

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Alternatives for ICE - E85, ethanol, algal ethanol, biodiesel, algal diesel, fishnchip oil etc etc
For eg, you can get a chip for the good ol Ford inline 6 and run on E85, can be done right now. Makes a difference, Aussie crops/sugar cane, Aussie farmers and Ethanol plants

All 4 of my little Jap trucks run on bio diesel (used cottonseed oil, Canola oil) I'm surrounded by Canola farms here.
Apart from several steps of fine screen filtering and changing over to non perishing fuel lines its a no brainer.
After all good ol Rudolf designed the diesel engine to run on Coconut oil or basically any plant based oil.