VFacts January 2023.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by kypez

I know. It's just compromised is all. Straight line monster no doubt. With their huge brakes, they can't get proper off road tyres on them which defeats the purpose of a 4x4 in my eyes. The other features like Panoramic Roof, Seats and sound systems can be had in a Sedan. An F150 Raptor is a great case of the best of both worlds but isn't quite a SUV.

Vehicles like the Trackhawk are AWD for the same reasons a Skyline GTR is.
re the sand comment above they rely on cool electronics rather than locked diffs
you get on the sand and send it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B_aNY1wPsM

Originally Posted by kypez

Interestingly, I recently put the baby seat in the GTF. I can have my seat all the way back without it hitting the seat. My Everest, Model Y, Model 3, Model S, literally everything else I own has to have the seats moved forward (either driver or passenger). Who would've thought the Falcon Sedan would be the winner!!

same comparison between Everest and the Territory, the territory had way more space and could fit 3 seats across.

PS My territory also had bigger much wider tyres than you could fit on a Falcon so it handled pretty well.
ripping through country roads in the wet would be where they outclass most sedans

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Vehicles like the Trackhawk are AWD for the same reasons a Skyline GTR is.
re the sand comment above they rely on cool electronics rather than locked diffs
you get on the sand and send it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B_aNY1wPsM





same comparison between Everest and the Territory, the territory had way more space and could fit 3 seats across.

PS My territory also had bigger much wider tyres than you could fit on a Falcon so it handled pretty well.
ripping through country roads in the wet would be where they outclass most sedans

The electric stuff never works as well. Sure, you can send it but say Fraser Island, you can't just send it due to tree roots as well as sand.

Yes, the Terri is way wider than the Everest. One thing I disliked about the Everest was how narrow it was. Remember the Everest Mule with the Terri back end and how it was protruding out because it was so much wider than the Everest?

I'm curious as to why you think a heavier car with higher centre of gravity and thus more inertia, would somehow be better in the wet than a sedan. Less weight/mass on a slippery surface will always grip better than a heavier car.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

In the last year or two, Territory was strongly outselling Falcon.

Taxi sales didn't really factor into FG sales, by then Ford had dumped the Taxi pack and were not actively perusing taxi sales. From what I have been told, taxi operators were buying ex-fleet Falcon's second hand. Once again, a customer that never wanted to buy a NEW Falcon, just heavily depreciated on the secondhand market.

Thank you. I didn't know that and probably was the start of the big shift away from sedans.

With FGX, Ford dropped the EcoLpi on the G6E as a disincentive to Taxi companies buying them for Silver Service. Was silly in hindsight as they could've had a lot more sales. I would've upgraded our FG2 to the FGX G6E EcoLpi if it was offered. FG/FG2/FGX all depreciated like lead balloons initially.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by kypez

The electric stuff never works as well. Sure, you can send it but say Fraser Island, you can't just send it due to tree roots as well as sand.

Yes Fraser island separates the men from the boys - good youtube watch if anyone's bored
tbf I've seen 200 series & patrols getting bogged, then an X-trail flys by??
RAMs seem to dominate though

This is where you shouldn't be taking a road SUV anyway.

Originally Posted by kypez

Yes, the Terri is way wider than the Everest. One thing I disliked about the Everest was how narrow it was. Remember the Everest Mule with the Terri back end and how it was protruding out because it was so much wider than the Everest?

I'm curious as to why you think a heavier car with higher centre of gravity and thus more inertia, would somehow be better in the wet than a sedan. Less weight/mass on a slippery surface will always grip better than a heavier car.

Probably more to do with the Tyres they have deeper tread but I've never had issues with hydroplaning. and feel pretty sure footed through sketchy roads & conditions
Territory is about 300 kg heavier than a Falcon I think, which is arguable as to whether that gives an advantage or disadvantage.
once again Prado etc is a different story, but all called SUVs

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Yes Fraser island separates the men from the boys - good youtube watch if anyone's bored
tbf I've seen 200 series & patrols getting bogged, then an X-trail flys by??
RAMs seem to dominate though

This is where you shouldn't be taking a road SUV anyway.


Probably more to do with the Tyres they have deeper tread but I've never had issues with hydroplaning. and feel pretty sure footed through sketchy roads & conditions
Territory is about 300 kg heavier than a Falcon I think, which is arguable as to whether that gives an advantage or disadvantage.
once again Prado etc is a different story, but all called SUVs

The Everest did really well at Fraser (which is why we went for it over the Terri). I will give it to you that the second row is so much more comfortable to fit in the Terri as well. I recovered 4 Prados whilst there. Was very confusing for a few One Nation voters being recovered by me (Bloke: no, I'm not stuck. Wife: Shutup and take the nice mans offer to help us).

Deeper tread would help for sure. Good point. Weight, not so much but tread can help. The weight does make them feel more sure footed in the dry, no doubt. I just feel in the wet, lighter is better. Its why my Motorbike with almost semi slicks doesn't spin up in the wet as much as you'd think. Just less mass to move or change direction.

[Sprintey]

Terry with the AWD feels just so planted, particularly at speed over long distances of gravel. Then add in the distance comfort, the space, the air con, the handling ability. Going to be very difficult to replace. That's why we'll rebuild ours.

If I was on the West Coast, I'd get a 4x4 instead, for there's so much soft sand driving to get to the interesting stuff. In the east, with it's mountains, snow, and bitumen right to the beach in many places, an SUV like an X5 or Terry does fine and is nicer for 99% of the time without the truck feels.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Terry with the AWD feels just so planted, particularly at speed over long distances of gravel. Then add in the distance comfort, the space, the air con, the handling ability. Going to be very difficult to replace. That's why we'll rebuild ours.

If I was on the West Coast, I'd get a 4x4 instead, for there's so much soft sand driving to get to the interesting stuff. In the east, with it's mountains, snow, and bitumen right to the beach in many places, an SUV like an X5 or Terry does fine and is nicer for 99% of the time without the truck feels.

Good point about the AWD Terri. Though, with the last model and the ondemand system, they feel just like a RWD till it slips. The older full time AWD setup felt better on gravel roads.

[Top_Ghia]

The Territory has excellent road holding and feel. It talks to you and you know what you can do in it and when you’re pushing.
By contrast the Everest feels disconnected to me. It just floats along and there’s zero feedback about what’s happening until your mid corner and it’s floating around all over the place. It seems very easy to travel along too quickly in the Everest as the ride is so good and you feel insulted from the road.
I’ve found both really good on rough dirt roads and sand.

With a tech update the Territory would still sell well today.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Sedans are dead. What do you think is going to happen to Teslas sedans once manufacturers start making ‘affordable” electric SUVs and utes?

The Europeans would disagree with you. BMW, Audi, Mercedes Benz all continue to make sedans, in any powertrain you want. I like twin turbo petrol V8's, and may consider next years M5, which will have the S68 petrol electric hybrid. M3 is now available as a wagon, the next M5 is rumoured to be available in a wagon version as well.

What's with Australia's addiction to Thailand tractors? Too much soy consumption by the metro males? Heavy, diesel burning vehicles, with no EV option. Hardly environmentally friendly now is it.

[Sprintey]

Main battle tanks are also in hot demand in Europe at present.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Romulus

What's with Australia's addiction to Thailand tractors? Too much soy consumption by the metro males? Heavy, diesel burning vehicles, with no EV option. Hardly environmentally friendly now is it.

Just don't understand this. It must be tax rules. Why go back to ladder frame chassis, large turning circles, have thirsty diesels, and have to invent the Watts link again? 1982 already happened.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by kypez

Good point about the AWD Terri. Though, with the last model and the ondemand system, they feel just like a RWD till it slips. The older full time AWD setup felt better on gravel roads.

Yep, agree with this, and on test drive back in 2012 decided not to upgrade then as the feel was just not the same. SYII is king.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Romulus

The Europeans would disagree with you. BMW, Audi, Mercedes Benz all continue to make sedans, in any powertrain you want. I like twin turbo petrol V8's, and may consider next years M5, which will have the S68 petrol electric hybrid. M3 is now available as a wagon, the next M5 is rumoured to be available in a wagon version as well.

What's with Australia's addiction to Thailand tractors? Too much soy consumption by the metro males? Heavy, diesel burning vehicles, with no EV option. Hardly environmentally friendly now is it.

Ouch!

[Franco Cozzo]

Kia Rio just got axed for Australia after a 20 year run:

Kia Rio being axed in Australia

The Kia Rio is a light car segment stalwart in Australia, but it will soon be retiring locally.

“The next (7th) generation Rio will not be produced in [right-hand drive],” Kia Australia today said in a statement, after reports confirmed the current car would not be replaced in the UK and mainland Europe.

“The award-winning Rio has been a tremendous car for Kia in the Australian market with 162,494 sold since its debut in mid-2000.”

“While the Rio nameplate will not continue locally, Kia does continue to offer its popular Picanto and Cerato ranges, with new models across various segments currently under study for our market.”

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...d-in-australia

One less choice in the small car segment, curious if there's going to be a significant price rise on the MG3 now there's less competition.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Kia Rio just got axed for Australia after a 20 year run:



https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...d-in-australia

One less choice in the small car segment, curious if there's going to be a significant price rise on the MG3 now there's less competition.

Chinese vehicles are already on the rise with their prices.They have their foot in the door, & the only way is up.

[prydey]

They still have cerato. Almost the same car. A lot of overlap with those 2 models so they obviously decided they didn't need both.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Just don't understand this. It must be tax rules. Why go back to ladder frame chassis, large turning circles, have thirsty diesels, and have to invent the Watts link again? 1982 already happened.

because there is nothing in between from my perspective.
Sub 100k what is as practical.
Large wagons are not around unless euro/5Series BM and MB equiv costing a bomb.
SUV's mid size don't cut it for carrying space unless you go large SUV that ala a Kluger for eg doesn't cut it also.
As agricultural Dual Cabs are (not the new versions imo) for fam use they are just too damn practical not to have one IF your outdoor types especially like we are.
Just did Gold Coast and back for hols, sure a D4 isn't to write about performance wise but it does the job, carries heaps of our needs, boards on racks, from tarmac to beach/dune hopping they just do the job full stop period.
Its like they say - horse's for course's.
Romulus, I hear you and agree that sedans are not dead, nor wagons, just there isn't affordable hipo wagons at the volume sector.
I have a small euro wagon daily, love driving it but its going this year heading for a V6 Amarok me hope for that covers all my regular use and holiday adventures with ease.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

They still have cerato. Almost the same car. A lot of overlap with those 2 models so they obviously decided they didn't need both.

Cerato is a bigger car, it's Focus size, Rio was Fiesta size.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Cerato is a bigger car, it's Focus size, Rio was Fiesta size.

Funny all the push for EVs for the environment??, but in the mean time the most efficient of cars (the small ones ) are all being dropped.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Romulus

The Europeans would disagree with you. BMW, Audi, Mercedes Benz all continue to make sedans, in any powertrain you want. I like twin turbo petrol V8's, and may consider next years M5, which will have the S68 petrol electric hybrid. M3 is now available as a wagon, the next M5 is rumoured to be available in a wagon version as well.

What's with Australia's addiction to Thailand tractors? Too much soy consumption by the metro males? Heavy, diesel burning vehicles, with no EV option. Hardly environmentally friendly now is it.

The Euros would agree actually. Not disagree. Sales of C class and 3 series continue to drop, and the GLC is actually the highest selling MB you can buy, after overtaking the C class a while ago. While the X3 is rapidly gaining on the 3 series and will most likely overtake it in the next few years.

They are fully aware of the switch away from sedans into SUV's, just like every other manufacturer.

And your last line paragraph makes no sense. A soy boy is more likely to buy an enviro friendly buzz box, not a diesel spewing large ute.

[kevino]

Ev s are ridiculously heavy.
These small cars like Rio are probably better for the environment.
But apparently no body buys small cars now and small cars are too expensive to manufacture.
Or is it we will sell you a Kia Stonic instead a Rio
On stilts with extra suv tax and thus more profit for Kia.
Escape and Puma getting chopped too.
Although there will be a new electric Puma.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by kevino

Ev s are ridiculously heavy.
These small cars like Rio are probably better for the environment.
But apparently no body buys small cars now and small cars are too expensive to manufacture.
Or is it we will sell you a Kia Stonic instead a Rio
On stilts with extra suv tax and thus more profit for Kia.
Escape and Puma getting chopped too.
Although there will be a new electric Puma.

Puma is not getting chopped that I am aware of.

[kevino]

No more petrol Puma dies next two years or so

Being replaced by electric puma
Farley announced a few days ago petrol Escape petrol Puma to die.
Push towards three row suv s and trucks and the vw share bev s

Ford to rid themselves of pesky small cars
Apparently two row suv s don’t work financially for Ford according to Farley.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by kevino

No more petrol Puma dies next two years or so

Being replaced by electric puma
Farley announced a few days ago petrol Escape petrol Puma to die.
Push towards three row suv s and trucks and the vw share bev s

Ford to rid themselves of pesky small cars
Apparently two row suv s don’t work financially for Ford according to Farley.

Ford already produce a Hybrid Puma in the UK, are they discontinuing it as well?

[kevino]

It’s sold in Nz too.
Yep chopped out when the electric Puma comes in.
Ford only want to play in upmarket price brackets.
And I mean it works pretty welll here for them.
100k for a Raptor - profit better than a 35 k Puma.

But as I just bought a Puma cause of price ceiling I m a bit aggro Ford are dropping it
That Anglia Prefect Cortina Escort Ka Fiesta Focus Puma line dead
Progress I guess
Can’t stop change

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by kevino

No more petrol Puma dies next two years or so

Being replaced by electric puma
Farley announced a few days ago petrol Escape petrol Puma to die.
Push towards three row suv s and trucks and the vw share bev s

Ford to rid themselves of pesky small cars
Apparently two row suv s don’t work financially for Ford according to Farley.

I was under the impression that petrol Puma will run alongside EV Puma till later in the decade ie it will be killed when the market in Europe shifts to EV as a majority.

The interesting thing in all that is that Puma makes up half of FoE's profit. It's not a money loser like Fiesta and Focus.

[kevino]

I m not to do good with the cut and paste thing.
There’s an article on Carsguide.com.au quoting Farley.

I think all Euro car manufacturers are going to suffer because of the influx of cheaper Bev s from China.
Farley reading the tea leaves.
Don’t think utes three row suv s and rehashed vw Bev s and Mustangs are going to cut it for FOE.

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Just don't understand this. It must be tax rules. Why go back to ladder frame chassis, large turning circles, have thirsty diesels, and have to invent the Watts link again? 1982 already happened.

Sure, a part of it is Tax for tradies and business owners. In my case, I'll be in a V6 Wildtrak because its perfect for my needs. Well equipped daily, to tow my Boat and my "fun" car on which a build starts when the Ranger arrives. Tell me another type of vehicle that does this for the $$$? I would of rather a Ram or new F150 but they are out of my budget.

Everyone's needs are different....

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Kia Rio just got axed for Australia after a 20 year run:



https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...d-in-australia

One less choice in the small car segment, curious if there's going to be a significant price rise on the MG3 now there's less competition.

Rio is priced on par with MGs bigger ZS entry model, MG3 will continue to increase in price while people keep buying them. The days of 15990 cheap cars are long gone.