Territory caught fire!

[Stevesmini]

Hi everyone, first time poster here.
My wife was driving our 04 AWD territory last week when smoke started to fill the cabin, she pulled over as quickly as possible and a following truck driver extinguished the fire . The fire was located underneath the drivers seat. Short story…. the car was declared an uneconomical write off by insurance, paid out agreed value, I’ve purchased the car back for $500 and once I get it returned I’ll look into the cause and hopefully fix the wiring, maybe install a new seat depending on the analysis. Wife appeared ok at the time but shaken, after about half an hour she started coughing, headache, slightly vague and the truck driver insisted on calling an ambulance and thanks to his advice she was admitted to hospital for 3 days to undertake many hyperbaric chamber treatments. Apparently carbon monoxide can be cleared quite easily from the lungs but what most people (including us) weren’t aware of is that the toxic molecules can attach to the lining of the brain and cause brain damage, without prompt treatment it can cause irreversible issues down the track and by the time you become aware of symptoms it’s too late to treat. So a big thank you to the truck driver, the ambulance and hospital staff. Not having yet looked into the fires cause but having quickly looked underneath on the day it appears an electrical fault within the wiring loom has set the seat base alight. It’s a NON heated, height adjustable seat (2004 AWD SX model). There was nothing under the seat to cause any physical damage to the loom. There was a seat cover previously installed prior to our purchase 12 months ago so possibly this may have been inadvertently tied around the loom but I’m only guessing about this. I adjust the seat back and the wife forward each time we swap driving but this happens with all cars. Any thoughts on a possible cause? I’m aware of the 2 motors and the seat belt pretensioner wiring so until I get to it I’m trying to research possible causes and whether another seat and some wiring repair will suffice. If anyone has any ideas, suggestions on wiring repair and things that might cause issues it would be greatly appreciated. Here’s a pic showing the damage and what is deemed an insurance repairable write off.

[simon varley]

hope your wife gets well quickly. that must have been pretty scary. there are some horrible chemicals given off in car fires these days

[Toiler]

Originally Posted by Stevesmini

Hi everyone, first time poster here.
My wife was driving our 04 AWD territory last week when smoke started to fill the cabin, she pulled over as quickly as possible and a following truck driver extinguished the fire . The fire was located underneath the drivers seat. Short story…. the car was declared an uneconomical write off by insurance, paid out agreed value, I’ve purchased the car back for $500 and once I get it returned I’ll look into the cause and hopefully fix the wiring, maybe install a new seat depending on the analysis. Wife appeared ok at the time but shaken, after about half an hour she started coughing, headache, slightly vague and the truck driver insisted on calling an ambulance and thanks to his advice she was admitted to hospital for 3 days to undertake many hyperbaric chamber treatments. Apparently carbon monoxide can be cleared quite easily from the lungs but what most people (including us) weren’t aware of is that the toxic molecules can attach to the lining of the brain and cause brain damage, without prompt treatment it can cause irreversible issues down the track and by the time you become aware of symptoms it’s too late to treat. So a big thank you to the truck driver, the ambulance and hospital staff. Not having yet looked into the fires cause but having quickly looked underneath on the day it appears an electrical fault within the wiring loom has set the seat base alight. It’s a NON heated, height adjustable seat (2004 AWD SX model). There was nothing under the seat to cause any physical damage to the loom. There was a seat cover previously installed prior to our purchase 12 months ago so possibly this may have been inadvertently tied around the loom but I’m only guessing about this. I adjust the seat back and the wife forward each time we swap driving but this happens with all cars. Any thoughts on a possible cause? I’m aware of the 2 motors and the seat belt pretensioner wiring so until I get to it I’m trying to research possible causes and whether another seat and some wiring repair will suffice. If anyone has any ideas, suggestions on wiring repair and things that might cause issues it would be greatly appreciated. Here’s a pic showing the damage and what is deemed an insurance repairable write off.

Check the fuses. If like the SZ series, there is a 30A fuse for the seating. It should have blown before the wires melted. Check for a larger (non standard) fuse being fitted. This will not explain why the fault occurred but may explain why basic protection obviously did not function.

[Vesper Martini]

As above any fuses should blow in a modern car if any of the factory wiring is shorted together.
often is modified wiring that causes issues like extra trailer wiring fridge lights etc.

not saying it cant happen just very unlikely.

checking that 30A fuse will explain a lot.

[jaydee]

Crikey, that could have been disasterous.
I see you're new to this forum, but keep us updated on what you find, and good luck to your wifes health.

[ford71V8]

We have an 06 Terry.
I noticed only last week the plastic on the switch to control seat height was all broken off. Might take a closer look there this afternoon

[Stevesmini]

Thanks to everyone commenting so far. First thing I thought on the day is why fuse protection didn’t work in this scenario. I’ll be definitely giving it the “air crash investigation” treatment once I get the car back. I was able to buy it back from the insurance company very cheaply and I couldn’t see how I could lose trying to fix things. The car has just on 200,000km on it and had new tyres, new ball joints/lower control arms etc and pretty well everything else up to scratch by the previous owner just before I bought it last year so fingers crossed for a happy ending. Worse case I’ve got my insurance payout and I’ll have a mechanically good territory to use for parts or sell as a complete donor car. hopefully a really good clean out, replacing wiring (although I prob won’t plug things back in unless I’ve found the original fault) and it’ll be good to go after inspection. Im suspecting the loom/conduit had worn through on the seat hardware or maybe a seat motor short circuit, but in my mind I can’t see how this should have been possible to begin with.
I’ve learnt a few things about car insurance along the way too.
1) Shannon’s are a great company to deal with
2) it doesn’t take much damage for a car over 15 years to be classed as a write off
3) being a repairable write off it was cheap to buy back and once fixed can be re-registered
4) repairable write off reduces its resale value and i can only insure it for 3rd party now
5) guess we will drive it til it dies a horrible death (but hopefully not a fire!)
I’ll post an update on the outcome down the track. 👍

[Citroënbender]

A collapsing seat base could, conceivably, chafe through wires.

I have been told in the past by an assessor for Shannon’s, that assessed (described) damage could be inspected post-repair for a full coverage policy to be issued.

[Stevesmini]

Not sure why my post is under STARTER MOTOR but I’m assuming it’s because I don’t know what I’m doing on this forum. Feel free to move it to the the proper section if it’s a problem. Hopefully I’ll work it all out one day.

[ratter]

if going to re register it, once a car is declared a repairable write off there is certain way things must be done and paper work and pics to show it.
What I'm trying to say is, it may not be a case of joining two damaged wires, but an entire loom may be required for it to pass any associated tests

[Stevesmini]

Good point ratter, thanks for the tip. no dodgy brothers work!

[XR Martin]

Depends what state your in, in nsw if it's over 15 years you can just fix it up.

Originally Posted by Stevesmini

3) being a repairable write off it was cheap to buy back and once fixed can be re-registered

That sounds really scary but I'm glad she's okay.
Not sure what state you're in but in QLD repairable writeoffs will no longer be permitted to be repaired and re-registered from next year, they will all be declared statutory writeoffs. There are a small amount of exemptions which you may or may not meet, but that's more hoops to jump through. I haven't heard anything yet about whether existing repairable writeoffs will eventually be reclassified as statutory writeoffs but you'd better get cracking on the repairs.

4) repairable write off reduces its resale value and i can only insure it for 3rd party now

This isn't true at least in QLD. I have a re-registered repairable writeoff that is fully comprehensively insured. You do have to be upfront with the insurer when you sign up though, not all of them will agree to insure it but I'm with Suncorp and they will do it. I have been in an accident, a learner drive sideswiped my car and it was still treated like any other car by the insurer and repairer.

[ozpacman]

Originally Posted by Stevesmini

Not sure why my post is under STARTER MOTOR but I’m assuming it’s because I don’t know what I’m doing on this forum. Feel free to move it to the the proper section if it’s a problem. Hopefully I’ll work it all out one day.

It's all good mate - you're in the correct section. Every new poster begins as a 'Starter Motor'.

[happy1]

Hi,
Territory has harnesses built the same way as Falcon BA/BF, same principles, same plugs, but specific for Territory, a little longer, a few differences.
There is one harness across the dash, with plugs in each footwell. And there is one harness for each side of the cabin, from the footwell to the tail gate.
There are also one harness for each side of the engine bay, these plug together at the footwell plugs.

There are two fuse boxes. Engine bay fuse box and relay box supplies the engine modules and headlights, fans etc. The internal fuse box near the driver's knee supplies all cabin functions including the seats, audio, dash functions.

If it's a small fire under the seat, suggest that you only need the two cabin side harnesses, perhaps even only one of them. It shouldn't be necessary to do the dash harness and fuse box, unless wires have melted there too.
It also depends how it was extinguished, for example if the fire crew pumped it full of water, it would need everything that has been wet to be replaced.

Also, first of course disassemble the seats, centre console, and pull out the floor carpet etc, to see if any sheetmetal needs re-painting first.

Suggest that you discuss with the inspection station at the beginning of the work, when you have taken out the seats, taken some photos etc,

Most importantly, you need to disconnect the damaged harness from the main harness before you attempt to put the battery back in.

The cabin side harness on the Left side carries the fuel pump power, so you can't get it running again until you have plugged in another side harness.

Since you have electric seats, is it a Ghia trim level? You will need harnesses from the same trim level, and exactly same year. For example if you have an SX, you need harness from a same year SX, (not from an SY).

Cheers,

[Stevesmini]

Thanks do much for your in depth reply HAPPY1, this kind of information is invaluable and not what is easily obtainable from things like the Gregory style workshop manuals. I still haven’t got the car back but I’m feeling pretty confident from the initial look and photos I took the damage might be to a totally confined to the seat and seat wiring itself only. The “car” wiring loom is hopefully untouched as the fire was extinguished very quickly. The extinguisher used has left a bluish powder behind so no water damage. There was the factory territory rear mat across the tunnel plus another carpet mat and even a rubber mat on that so the carpet and floor pan itself may be quite un damaged. Also the side plastic mouldings on the seat don’t appear burnt or melted so this gives me hope the plugs on the car wiring loom may still be serviceable also. I’ve learnt so much since this fire, I never knew the seat rail had a sensor to tell the computer where it’s positioned so that in an accident the airbag would use this info to inflate at the correct rate to avoid injury to the driver. I also never knew exactly how and why seat belt pretensions operated. Gone are the days of undoing 4 bolts and whacking any old seat in a car. The car is a base model 2005 (not 2004 as I previously thought) SX TX AWD.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Stevesmini

Not sure why my post is under STARTER MOTOR but I’m assuming it’s because I don’t know what I’m doing on this forum. Feel free to move it to the the proper section if it’s a problem. Hopefully I’ll work it all out one day.

I think maybe every new poster gets that tag

[prktkljokr]

Have done many repairable write offs over the years

The reason they would have written your car off is because that dry chemical used to put the fire out is corrosive, it gets into everything as you will see when you start cleaning it, you cant just clean it up with a quick vac and a wipe down with a wet cloth you need to neutralise it.

Here is a link on how to clean it properly and why

https://www.guardianfireprotection.c...isher-residue/

Also repairable write offs that are on the WOVR are able to be insured for full value once repaired and inspected, its only when you sell them people expect them to be cheaper and car yards wont touch them, but 15 year old cars values vary that much its not worth worrying about unless you are expecting top red book value for it.

The wiring is able to be spliced by the right repair method (usually soldered, heat shrink and convoluted tubing), I have done this in the past to burnt deployed airbag connectors this way and most manufacturers sell them with the wiring tails already connected.

A tip for when you do a repairable write off yourself, do a stat declaration stating that you repaired the car yourself to the manufacturers specifications, always good to include a copy of the repair procedure or wiring diagrams in your case, keep the receipt for any parts or the purchase receipt for any donor car including the Vin number of any donor part.

I just use this form and get it signed at the post office https://www.ag.gov.au/sites/default/...ation-form.pdf

It is stupid but every car has to go for a 4 wheel wheel alignment even if it has nothing to do with the damage you need the print out with all measurements before and after with all after measurements being in spec along with the receipt.

Seeing your car has a burnt seat and the airbag wiring was damaged they may require a airbag test certificate from Ford, they will not accept it from anyone else (no scan result from auto elec)

Hope this info helps if you have never done a repairable write off before it can catch you out and it makes it hard once you have done everything to go back and jump through hoops to get it passed

[aussiblue]

and not what is easily obtainable from things like the Gregory style workshop manuals

You can download the full comprehensive factory workshop service and repair manuals, wiring diagrams, technical services bulletins and other relevant documents for a modest US$21.85 from Ford at https://www.motorcraftservice.com

The 72 hours subscription will be more than enough time to download the manuals etc for every model Australian Ford you might need.

I think maybe every new poster gets that tag

Correct.

[Jastel]

The seat motors get permanent power, even with key off, so people can adjust them before getting in. I had a flooded car and the seat motors burnt out but the fire didnt last long underwater.

Check your own states rules regarding inspections and re registering, they are all a bit different.

Some states dont put vehicles over 15 years old on Written Off Vehicle registers...in that case fix it and get a Roadworthy (or whatever it is called in your state) from a mechanic and you are all set to re register.

If it is on a state register then the re inspection gets more difficult and expensive.
It is not impossible but you need to dot your I's and cross your T's.
Taking photos of repaired areas, before and after is a big help to the inspectors.

[ebv8]

i hope the wife is ok, i had a small fire the other night in my engine bay from the spot light fuse holder, it had dealer fitted spotlights and its a 2005 model, it been fine up until now and the fuse caught fire, we found one of the wires was lose and caused it. luckily once the fuse popped the fire stopped and only damaged some wiring and plastic. the car had been sitting for months during lockdown so this was its first trip for a long time

also always carry a fire extinguisher!
make sure its the biggest you can fit too

my brother and his family were unfortunate enough to witness a major accident, he and a few others were first on the scene and he used his little 1kg but wasn't enough at all so go the 2.5kg from his caravan and it was just enough to remove one of the girls but as soon as the extinguisher ran out there was nothing they could do

so he carries a 2.5 in each car and a 4.5 in the caravan, i run a small one on my seat pocked and a larger one in the boot.

[Stevesmini]

Thank you to everyone who’s posted their thoughts and advice about the territory fire, got the car back today so thought I’d give an update. The 30 amp seat fuse has blown, the most obvious damage to any wiring (with all the insulation completely burnt away) is on the cables running from the seatbelt pretensioner and directly on the front side of the round bar running across the rear of the seat base. I can only assume somehow this wiring has rubbed through on the bar and caused a short. The damage is confined to the wiring within the seat base only and not the main car wiring looms. The seat base cushion has mostly lost all its support and The carpet is relatively unscathed thanks to the rear car mat. I checked the airbag fuse out of curiosity thinking the seat belt tension cables could be part of this circuit but the fuse is ok. The fire extinguishers powder is very fine and covers lots of the car interior. Started a clean up but have decided to take a few days break to assess whether to go ahead with cleanup and repairs or go a different tack and sell off as a going wreck with good Barra motor etc and purchase another vehicle as a replacement.

[terrieanne]

Sorry to bring up and old thread but just wondering which way you went as I had the same happened to me today but not as bad my wires just melted and 30 amp fuse blew

[Tonz]

dont hold your breath the OP hasnt visited again.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Tonz

dont hold your breath the OP hasnt visited again.

You spoke too soon Tonz

[Tonz]

Hasent said anything yet