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OzECruisers General Discussions E/N/D vehicles General Discussion ONLY. NO TECH THREADS |
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17-04-2006, 02:42 AM | #1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Coast NSW
Posts: 601
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Am I just looking in all the wrong places or is it really hard to find an aftermarket motor builder that does a range of Ford V8s to different stages. I was on the C.O.M.E. site a while ago and while they have a chev/holden donk for every occasion their Ford selection was nowhere near as comprehensive. I googled every which way to similar results. So Ok, forget modded. How about a stock factory crate motor of the latest variety? And while we're at it, a 6 speed ZF box for good measure. Naturally we will need the computer, loom etc. Does anyone have any idea on the potential of this possibility? Will FoMoCo drop a big box of the above into my 8x4 garden trailer so I can go home and ponder the refit?
Or can anyone point me in the right direction for a 200-220 Kw updrade of the existing EL donk with an equal strengthening of the auto? Cheers |
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17-04-2006, 02:47 AM | #2 | ||
they call me Tibbo
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 6,163
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You simply won't fit the BOSS engine in an EL without alot of customising to the k-frame, radiator support, inner guards etc..
200-220 upgrade? I am guessing you mean at the wheels? I'm no Wheezer expert but a warm 351 would have to go close
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17-04-2006, 02:51 AM | #3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Coast NSW
Posts: 601
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Cheers, that solves that I guess. At the rear wheels? No, probably not. Its just that the original donk made an enormous 165 so 200+ would be good and probably dooable if I could find someone reputable to do it
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17-04-2006, 09:42 AM | #4 | ||
Smash the Boost
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 2,692
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200 engine kw aint huge, you can get that with a six if you follow the right path
easiest thing would be find a AU 5.0L and drop than in. GT40 heads, with about 200kw to start with. throw a cam in and a exhaust for good measure and it'll all be apples. BTR auto's can be modded to handle a bit of grunt but its costly. ZF 6 speeder would be a nightmare
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2023 Hyundai Palisade 1971 Fairmont Sedan 1974 SWB F100 Keyboard Warrior - A Person who, being unable to express his anger through physical violence (owning to their physical weakness, lack of bravery and/or conviction in real life), instead manifests said emotions through the text-based medium of the internet, usually in the form of aggressive writing that the Keyboard Warrior would not (for reasons previously mentioned) be able to give form to in real life.
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17-04-2006, 10:01 AM | #5 | ||
windsor user
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Geelong
Posts: 13,123
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that "enormous 165kw" you talk of is only 35kw off the 200 mark..... 35 kw is way easy to find on a windsor....
heads, intake, roller rockers and exhaust would easily have you over 200kw at the engine, and if you use the factory AU XR8 heads and intake you can get there "fairly" inexpensively worst case scnario, you'd be looking at about 2500 fitted for all that stuff, waaaaay way cheaper than resorting to a 5.4 / 6 speed auto conversion... |
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17-04-2006, 12:32 PM | #6 | ||
Two > One
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 7,063
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Thought about a stock 5.0 + powerdyne. very very easy, 170-200rwkw gaurenteed all in an afternoons work.
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1978 LTD - 408ci - 11.5@120.6mph - 2004 S4 - 4.2 - M6 - quattro - |
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17-04-2006, 01:34 PM | #7 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Coast NSW
Posts: 601
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Thanks everyone. I guess I knew that the full retro fit could be a great drama, having to do bodywork has definently canned it. I'm guessing then that if 200kw is as achieveable as a powerdyne chip (it is a chip replacement, right?) then a methodical approach to all areas where huge money isnt required could be the go. So from what these guys have said I'm figuring alloy heads with roller rocker gear, maybe an aftermarket intake manifold full exhaust (twin system??) with highflow cats (big bucks?) and a chip. I'll keep looking around for a builder who inspires me with his enthusiasm and up front knowledge in the Melb., Geelong area. Oh yeah, one more thing, I've heard that the computers in Aussie Fords can not be remapped and that this is one of the reasons that large aftermarket crate engine builders dont do em. This true?
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17-04-2006, 01:38 PM | #8 | ||
they call me Tibbo
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 6,163
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the Powerdyne is a supercharger not a chip
If you only want 200kw at the fly, headers, exhaust and manifold are about all you have to change
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17-04-2006, 05:33 PM | #9 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Coast NSW
Posts: 601
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Aaahhh, a supercharger!! And one of those neat little turbo lookalike jobs that sits neatly under the bonnet, yes? I would love one of those but the first thing I wonder is if I would have a better sounding and responsive motor i.e. a more satisfying ride, if I spent similar money on heads ,cam, exhaust, intake?, and maybe a remap if poss. By the sound of Racecrafts last post I could probably wind up with well more than 200kw
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17-04-2006, 08:49 PM | #10 | ||
Oops, I slipped....
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Adelaide, SA
Posts: 1,861
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How much money do you want to spend? It isn't hard to spend a LOT on aftermarket Windsor parts if you're chasing every last horsepower. Everything is available for them in the US, check out places like www.summitracing.com or www.jegs.com for some parts, keeping in mind they're US prices.
COME won't have much of a Ford range, COME = Chev Off-road and Marine Engines.
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1995 EF Fairmont 5.0 Heritage Green - BTR with TCI 2500 stall - Ported E7's - Pacemaker Tri-Y's - 3" Mandrel-bent Lukey Exhaust 1984 XE S-Pack 250 Sno White - LPG - Single Rail - 2.5" Exhaust "Just because you don't understand something, does not make it wrong" |
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17-04-2006, 10:45 PM | #11 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Coast NSW
Posts: 601
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Cheers Aaron, I dont want to spend the farm but I would want to realise the same kind of performance from my favorite Ford as I have experienced in poverty pack Commodores of a similar age. 235 Kw seems to be dead easy, and cheap, to get from a VN type engine. Computers are remapable and there seems to be a multitude of go fast parts from many sources, not to mention plug and play crate motors from mobs such as C.O.M.E. ( where the hell is F.O.M.E.)
The thing that has really annoyed me over the years is that not since I witnessed, as a production line worker, the last Aussie Cleveland, a 351, leave the line to be put in a base model Falcon, has Ford made high end performance available to everyone and, more importantly, the aftermarket Gurus. Ford America is probably to blame, but that's a mute point. The thing is that my choice of ride, a late 90's Ford Fairmont Ghia has in it a high tech, relatively clean, 5 litre V8 that produces... 165 Kw. Blah. And the fact that I cannot order a dead reliable and proven 250Kw crate motor from any one of half a dozen competing companies for my EL Ghia annoys me. So here I am piecing together the bits and pieces of knowledge I am going to need to efficiently and reasonably economically put together a decent 220ish Kw motor. I'll definently check those web sites but I'm already not happy about givivg my money away O/S for gear for my Aussie Ford. |
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17-04-2006, 10:50 PM | #12 | ||
windsor user
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Geelong
Posts: 13,123
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theres not much australian about the 5.0....... its a mustang motor..hence why you wont find much readily available aussie parts for them....
why develop stuff here when its been developed to death in the states Last edited by LUXO_8; 17-04-2006 at 11:08 PM. |
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17-04-2006, 11:07 PM | #13 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perth
Posts: 820
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The 5.4 and the 6 speed would certainly be a dream combination in an EL Ghia. I've often joked about an LS1 conversion - but to be honest I'm happy not to have one in my car - simply because I'd want an LS2 in there now!
The supercharger option is cost effective in terms of $/kW and will result in the most drivable solution also. I've already posted a brief description of what I've done to my car in another thread tonight, but it seems relevant here if you're considering various ways to modify the 302 so I'll post it again to give you an idea of effort / output. I have managed to acquire many of the bits for my car cheaply and the home porting costs more time and effort than money... if I were to start from scratch again, I would consider the blower. Quote:
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17-04-2006, 11:26 PM | #14 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,750
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Quote:
Fact is that in the states, everything you ever wanted is there.... Anything you buy here has come from there anyway. |
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17-04-2006, 11:26 PM | #15 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: I live in my own little world, but it's alright, the people know me here
Posts: 485
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why not put a BA XR6 motor and a zf gearbox in it??
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17-04-2006, 11:30 PM | #16 | |||
Grinder+Welder = Race car
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Briz-Vegas
Posts: 3,937
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Quote:
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"No, it will never have enough power until I can spin the wheels at the end of the straightaway in high gear" - Too much power is never enough....Mark Donohue on the Can Am Porsche 917. |
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18-04-2006, 01:18 AM | #17 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,750
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Quote:
LOL, nah, its got a few cubes though....but its a windsor all the same....although, it has a little extra deck height.... Gotta love 351W Strokers, bulk HP and torque |
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18-04-2006, 04:16 AM | #18 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Coast NSW
Posts: 601
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Quote:
I guess the questions that first jump to mind is; What is going to break first and what should I do to prevent it, will I have to run 95 octane or better fuel to stop pinging given the high compression (or is pinging only relative to static or "swept" compression (I'm trying to think on my feet here a bit, so please bear with me)) and what other mods should I seriously consider to keep my engine happiest (bigger radiator, oil cooler etc.) Other than that I'm sold. I'll do a google and ring around for dealer info and hopefully be not too far out of the ball park when it comes to the price of a fit. Last edited by Craney; 18-04-2006 at 04:36 AM. Reason: not enough info |
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18-04-2006, 04:25 AM | #19 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Coast NSW
Posts: 601
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Quote:
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18-04-2006, 08:12 AM | #20 | ||
PM me if you want
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Pk Ranger Modding - QLD 👍
Posts: 7,498
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The BA/BF I6 does not fit under the EF/EL bonnet line for start (jetxr proved that).
ZF gearboxes are autos made in Germany. If you fit a ZF to in your EL to a standard EF/EL motor (V8 or I6) make sure I am the first to know, would love one in my EA.
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18-04-2006, 08:22 AM | #21 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perth
Posts: 820
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The other issue is the cost of the 6 speed box.
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Still saluting the Ford flag. |
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18-04-2006, 08:36 PM | #22 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Coast NSW
Posts: 601
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Yeah, the ZF is about 8 grand still in the box according to a post in the gearbox forum. so that is another thing out of the question. I rang a few wreckers out of interest but its a bit early and they wont be much cheaper than that anyway. At least for the next few years.
Side point: Hows this for Ford bizarreness. According to a mate in Cairns who owns a wrecking yard it is cheaper to replace a Ford explorer engine (V6) than it is to replace the valve timing gear. There is a chain at both ends of the engine! And only $2900 to repace the whole thing! Weird So forget the ZF. How about going the other way and retroing a turbo 350 or 400. Same prob with the room do you all think? How about the bellhousing patterns? And if it did fit without lots of butchery could the electronic and otherwise interaction between the ELs currant box and motor be ignored or modified enough to run the older box??? |
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27-04-2006, 10:31 PM | #23 | ||||
Oops, I slipped....
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Adelaide, SA
Posts: 1,861
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Quote:
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__________________
1995 EF Fairmont 5.0 Heritage Green - BTR with TCI 2500 stall - Ported E7's - Pacemaker Tri-Y's - 3" Mandrel-bent Lukey Exhaust 1984 XE S-Pack 250 Sno White - LPG - Single Rail - 2.5" Exhaust "Just because you don't understand something, does not make it wrong" |
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28-04-2006, 09:21 AM | #24 | |||
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Northside Brisbane
Posts: 2,494
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