and so it begins .......

[smoo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

No it doesn’t, you’re confusing EEC /UK government BEV legislation with the EU emission regulations

I see, wasn’t aware they’d amended Euro 7 regs. Further proof the Euro makers are ****ting themselves faced with cheaper Chinese EVs.
That will give them a lifeline to no ICEs sold 2035. But by then most will probably be irrelevant.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by smoo

I see, wasn’t aware they’d amended Euro 7 regs. Further proof the Euro makers are ****ting themselves faced with cheaper Chinese EVs.
That will give them a lifeline to no ICEs sold 2035. But by then most will probably be irrelevant.

or it's an acknowledgement that we're trying to get blood from a stone. the idea that you can turn fuel solely into CO2 and H2O given the types of chemicals going into an ICE and the conditions under which they're being burnt, is somewhat fanciful.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

or it's an acknowledgement that we're trying to get blood from a stone. the idea that you can turn fuel solely into CO2 and H2O given the types of chemicals going into an ICE and the conditions under which they're being burnt, is somewhat fanciful.

I wouldn't give them that much credit, they tried to go for **** that looks good on paper and found out the hard way that the real world and their fanciful bull**** wasn't ever going to work.

Was a lot of chicken littles here when they initially came out with their ICE bans with targets like 2030 et al.

Reminds me of a certain major party and their '50% renewables' by 2030 target near on 10 years ago, that was rushed through and big press releases made, as we sit in 2024 here in VIC:



95% brown coal

We're only 6 years away from 2030, not sure what their thought process was with committing to it, then advertising it everywhere, and trying to implement this idea so quickly when Stevie Wonder could see it wasn't going to work.

Same with the EU and their fanciful ICE bans.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I wouldn't give them that much credit, they tried to go for **** that looks good on paper and found out the hard way that the real world and their fanciful bull**** wasn't ever going to work.

Was a lot of chicken littles here when they initially came out with their ICE bans with targets like 2030 et al.

Reminds me of a certain major party and their '50% renewables' by 2030 target near on 10 years ago, that was rushed through and big press releases made, as we sit in 2024 here in VIC:

image

95% brown coal

We're only 6 years away from 2030, not sure what their thought process was with committing to it, then advertising it everywhere, and trying to implement this idea so quickly when Stevie Wonder could see it wasn't going to work.

Same with the EU and their fanciful ICE bans.

That graph is misleading tho, franko. It doesn't include roof top solar. I'm going to take a punt and say that the graph is sourced from AEMO? Roof top solar is not something that AEMO plays with (tracks or monitors) so their graphs do not show demand satisfied from roof top solar, nor does it show how much generation is being input into the system by roof top solar.

The Nem Watch widget is a much better depiction of what is really going on in the market. I appreciate it's not quite comparing apples with apples as its a different time and the market has probably changed slightly since you posted, but at 14:10 nem time, roof top solar accounts for around 2800mw of supply, large scale solar only 486 mw, wind 387 mw and brown coal 2160 mw in Vic. Therefore, renewable is accounting for around 64% of the market.

That is a much better representation of the market status.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by lra

The big misunderstood and unknown about Australia by a large percentage of our inhabitants.
2,300km in Europe will get you from Paris to a muddy trench in Ukraine fighting the Russians.
That distance won't get you from Darwin to Adelaide, but it will get you from Brisbane to Birdsville and return, if you are able to find a solar powered Mulga tree to plug your EV into.
The Great Australian Road Trip is doomed.

If anyone thinks that the popularisation of EVs spells the end of road trips in this country, you need to pop over to the 'Alternative Power' folder and have a look at the trip that kypez has just completed in his six year old model S tesla from Sydney to Uluru. Heck of a bigger road trip than most in this country will do and he really didn't need to sacrifice much distance to be able to make use of the charging network already available.

And before anyone chimes in, no he didn't tow a van. That wasn't the point of the exercise, and the tesla would never be the vehicle of choice for such a trip. Those who are anti-ev really need to open their minds and check out his really well documented, frank and open assessment of the tesla's capabilities for just such a trip. Worth noting his comments about driver fatigue, too, over such a distance with aids such as the tesla auto pilot system.

[lra]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

If anyone thinks that the popularisation of EVs spells the end of road trips in this country, you need to pop over to the 'Alternative Power' folder and have a look at the trip that kypez has just completed in his six year old model S tesla from Sydney to Uluru. Heck of a bigger road trip than most in this country will do and he really didn't need to sacrifice much distance to be able to make use of the charging network already available.
.

As you quoted my comments, yeah, I did. Good on him. Lots of planning and a bit of range anxiety.

Reminded of my first road trip with my parents, from Goondiwindi to Esperance in 1956. Had to carry petrol in a jerrycan, and where is a sealed road, and would we get there.
There would have been little more ICE vehicles on the Nullabor then, as there are Teslas on the way to Uluru now. Not impossible, but not done by many.
A jerry can of electrons will be handy in 2030 when EVs are queuing for chargers.
The Fed Govt is promoting EVs at the same time as warning us that here will be blackouts in the future due to reduced electricity power plants.
WTF, go figure on that logic.

As to long distance road trips via WoopWoop, I have done few. Lucky Starr is jealous.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by lra

As you quoted my comments, yeah, I did. Good on him. Lots of planning and a bit of range anxiety.

Reminded of my first road trip with my parents, from Goondiwindi to Esperance in 1956. Had to carry petrol in a jerrycan, and where is a sealed road, and would we get there.
There would have been little more ICE vehicles on the Nullabor then, as there are Teslas on the way to Uluru now. Not impossible, but not done by many.
A jerry can of electrons will be handy in 2030 when EVs are queuing for chargers.
The Fed Govt is promoting EVs at the same time as warning us that here will be blackouts in the future due to reduced electricity power plants.
WTF, go figure on that logic.

As to long distance road trips via WoopWoop, I have done few. Lucky Starr is jealous.

Why assume the infrastructure won't also grow?

[Franco Cozzo]

Just tow a trailer with a three phase generator on it - unlimited range

Its like how toast always lands buttered side down if you throw it, tape it butter side up to the back of a cat which always lands on its feet and we're flying to the moon with our new anti-gravity device.

[lra]

Originally Posted by prydey

Why assume the infrastructure won't also grow?

Didn't infer that, or write that it won't.

Currently, while you are refueling your ICE vehicle, you don't order and eat a burger, drink a cup of coffee and explore the Maccas playground while watching the time until you hope the tank is full.

There is a Tesla charging station about 20km from where I live. I think about 6 or 7 chargers, usually with 3 Teslas in it. Not easy to see or to get to.
Yeah, Tesla drivers have apps, but it is not 'in ya face' like a traditional servo.
More EVs require more chargers (duh ...tell the govt that) with longer charge times than dumping 50 litres of petrol into a tank.
How many more chargers do we need for the inevitable increase in EVs and charging point road rage.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by b0son

Current price for ULP95 in Germany is around $2.60. That's around $1.30 without taxes. Add our 46c excise and GST, and it comes to $1.93. Cheaper than here...

I haven't been on the forum for a few days, but I think you have a calculation issue.

Euro95 is currently €1.70 , which equates to the $2.60 mentioned. I am undue where you got $1.30 from as the AUS$ is weak against the Euro.

The calculation, adding Australian excise, would make 95 Octane $3.06 per litre.

UK is GBP1.50 per litre, equivalent to AUS$2.80 per litre.

Certainly not cheaper than Australia at present

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by lra

Didn't infer that, or write that it won't.

Currently, while you are refueling your ICE vehicle, you don't order and eat a burger, drink a cup of coffee and explore the Maccas playground while watching the time until you hope the tank is full.

There is a Tesla charging station about 20km from where I live. I think about 6 or 7 chargers, usually with 3 Teslas in it. Not easy to see or to get to.
Yeah, Tesla drivers have apps, but it is not 'in ya face' like a traditional servo.
More EVs require more chargers (duh ...tell the govt that) with longer charge times than dumping 50 litres of petrol into a tank.
How many more chargers do we need for the inevitable increase in EVs and charging point road rage.

Do you believe we had the same numbers of servos around as we have now when we changed from the cart and horse to ice vehicles? All of these continual arguments about availability/infrastructure are unfair, as they are comparing a very mature (perhaps even arguably one at its peak) system with one in its infancy. I'm sure most people are familiar with the old supply/demand principle. As demand for charging stations increase, so will the supply of them. Companies will see am opportunity to make money from this service and will deliver them.

[FairmontGS]

Just drove to Merimbula and back, far South Coast NSW from Sydney. Saw quite a few Tesla 3 dual motor and an older S towing vans of various sizes.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by bungarra

I haven't been on the forum for a few days, but I think you have a calculation issue.

Euro95 is currently €1.70 , which equates to the $2.60 mentioned. I am undue where you got $1.30 from as the AUS$ is weak against the Euro.

The calculation, adding Australian excise, would make 95 Octane $3.06 per litre.

UK is GBP1.50 per litre, equivalent to AUS$2.80 per litre.

Certainly not cheaper than Australia at present

Does Europe not have taxes included in their price?

[lra]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Do you believe we had the same numbers of servos around as we have now when we changed from the cart and horse to ice vehicles? .

Of course I believe that. Just like I believe that the world is flat and the Easter Bunny was invented by Santa Claus, and electricity grows on Gumtrees.
You must think I am stupid. Geez, full marks for being a spin doctor.

Something I do believe is that the car industry and the petroleum industry grew hand in hand, each one benefitting and promoting the other. Plenty of iron ore around to build cars, and plenty of oil just waiting to be drilled.

EVs are being introduced at a time when electricity is becoming in more demand at the same time as the present capacity, via Govt policy, is being wound back to satisfy the saviors of the planet.
In Australia, currently we are being told to learn how to ride a pushbike with no handlebars before we can walk.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

That graph is misleading tho, franko. It doesn't include roof top solar. I'm going to take a punt and say that the graph is sourced from AEMO? Roof top solar is not something that AEMO plays with (tracks or monitors) so their graphs do not show demand satisfied from roof top solar, nor does it show how much generation is being input into the system by roof top solar.

The Nem Watch widget is a much better depiction of what is really going on in the market. I appreciate it's not quite comparing apples with apples as its a different time and the market has probably changed slightly since you posted, but at 14:10 nem time, roof top solar accounts for around 2800mw of supply, large scale solar only 486 mw, wind 387 mw and brown coal 2160 mw in Vic. Therefore, renewable is accounting for around 64% of the market.

That is a much better representation of the market status.

I don't think it is as rooftop solar feed in relies upon home owners feeding excess generation back into the grid, it looks impressive but its off-peak times where home owners FIT is so low because this energy they generate is effectively worthless.

Homeowners with solar are way better off sinking as much of their excess solar capacity into charging EVs, or heating up water or other intensive energy uses than feeding it back into a grid at a time where there is an overabundant supply of energy.

Have a look at your link now 2 hours into peak - wind is up a nice percentage but brown coal is still putting in the work for VIC.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I don't think it is as rooftop solar feed in relies upon home owners feeding excess generation back into the grid, it looks impressive but its off-peak times where home owners FIT is so low because this energy they generate is effectively worthless.

Homeowners with solar are way better off sinking as much of their excess solar capacity into charging EVs, or heating up water or other intensive energy uses than feeding it back into a grid at a time where there is an overabundant supply of energy.

Have a look at your link now 2 hours into peak - wind is up a nice percentage but brown coal is still putting in the work for VIC.

Depends if you are an early adapter with high feed in tariff, or a recent adapter with zero feed in tariff. The latter will want to do as you say and use as much of their own solar generation as possible. The former are better off selling their power back to the grid and buying it back at night at much smaller cost, to do their chores.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Euro95 is currently €1.70 , which equates to the $2.60 mentioned. I am undue where you got $1.30 from

I said it was the fuel cost without taxes (Germany taxes at close to 50%).