The Thailand Special Thread - New Developments/News

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

In other news,

Chinese Thailand Special breaks BYDs website:



https://thedriven.io/2024/10/30/byd-...ashed-website/

Oh my lord, what's a Wildtrak worth? ~$90,000?

We've got a huge continent of Thailand Special sympathisers on AFF, how many of you are keen to test out the BYD Shark 6 at its impressive value proposition? Or are you of the opinion your Thailand light commercial vehicle is better than China's light commercial vehicle?

I’ve been watching these developments with interest, I wonder how many ISO approved corporations
are now compelled to start buying “greener” vehicles like the BYD Shark 6 and getting rid of all those
Conventional diesel Utes, I’m still not sure how much impact has and how many buyers will stump up.

I wonder if the price of the Shark 6 forces a rethink on Ranger PHEV pricing and Hilux hybrid,
I simply don’t know what impact BYD will have on which vehicles….

[kevino]

Slightly off topic- sorry
On Friday I was driving a slug
A hiace diesel bus
Beside me at the lights
Pulled up in Suzuki Jimmy with straight through exhaust
It’s sounded awful
I won the drag race too

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by whynot

I see in your .sig that you have a 22 mitsubishi outlander XLS PHEV

I once had a 2014 Outlander PHEV on an operational novated lease. Within the three years that I had it, the battery capacity fell below the warranty 70% capacity - and Mitsubishi refused to do anything about it. Cost to fix was over $11k.

There were quite a few other niggles with the vehicle; excessive free play in the steering, autonomous emergency braking that would randomly slam on causing a brake check to the poor sod behind me, etc. Mitsubishi 'could not fault' and showed no interest in fixing these problems.

Fortunately, with an operational novated lease, I could just hand the keys back and it became the lessor's problem. Result, not buying any more Mitsubishi vehicles.

Last I heard, there was still a Class Action in the Australian Federal Courts by ****ed off Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV owners about Mitsubishi not honouring their warranty.

As you say, I would be very protective of the PHEV.

Fair call , it was a big risk for us at the time ,a year earlier I would have been classed as anti EV

I read your threads with interest and did quite a bit of research as it was a whole new frontier and I am taking myown advice and are very wary with it , it's probably for us a stepping stone to a full EV

I have noticed the negativity over there towards Mitsubishi products, I don't know wether NZ operates differently but I've been nothing but impressed with the country dealer we use and it was a large part of the reason why we bought the Outlander because the way we were treated when I bought the Triton.....being in the transport industry for over forty years you learn quick it's more about after sales service

And also the EV rebate and an exceptional trade on the XR8 made it to good to pass by (constructed by my dealer )

Mitsubishi has a really good name over here

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

The smaller fours that are pressed to “perform” are unlikely to have physical space for components which make the larger fours more durable. I’m talking about bolt thread sizes, piston crown thickness, crank journal sizes for starters.

Now, the flip side to that is Ford designing them to run with 25 psi boost from the factory
so they go through the whole engineering reliability testing regime. What lets them down
are things like supplier deficiencies, like Siemens Injector faults, issues with water pumps.
The majority of units will probably run faultlessly for their whole life while other fail and disappoint.

I really don’t have any skin in this argument because I believe in minimalist engines
This is why our two Mazda crossovers are both ATMO 2.5 litre petrol
but I wouldn’t be averse to owning an Ecoboost Ford engine when I retire.

Edit,
Follow up on the 175 Kw vs 157 Kw 2.0 biturbo difference,
looks like the main difference is the power at the upper end is better
157 kw @ 3500 vs 175 kw @ 4000, so maybe just a tune Ford did
and not the premium diesel I thought in earlier post.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by whynot

Prydey ... I wouldn't let the other comments get to you. Enjoy driving the Everest.

You might find this article interesting to read. It discusses the ins and outs of one possible failure mode.

The short version is to stick to the recommended oil change, ensure the correctly specified oil is used, avoid DPF burn offs, and change the timing belt at 150,000 km. The article also explains what a wet timing belt is.

It appears that this engine is used in the UK Transit van since 2016. If there is any subgroup of drivers who abuse their engines; Transit van drivers would have to be it.

https://www.allthingsmotoringinterna...king-time-bomb

You will note, the failure mode mentioned has SFA to do with the power output per engine displacement.

Thanks for the link.

I was aware of the issues with transit but am yet to hear about any issues with Australian Ranger and Everest vehicles. The article didn't mention whether all regions also run Adblue so I'm not sure if this helps reduce dpf issues or not. I certainly haven't experienced any so far although I think my daily commute involves enough conditions to keep the dpf clean. I've always been anal about oil and only use oil that meets Ford specs. Mind you, interestingly Ford have gone back to a full saps oil in UB Everest and even UA Everest in other regions continues to run full saps (same oil as 3.2) yet UA 2.0 in Australia is listed to run low saps. I mean to research the reason for this.

By most reports the 2.0 panther motor is a very good motor.

Like you say, failure modes have nothing to do with capacity and power/torque outputs.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by smoo

Who said it’s a ticking time bomb?
I haven’t referenced its reliability in the short term, instead cast doubt on the longevity of the engine.
Reality is this isn’t going to be an issue for most owners, as they use them for doing the same job a Suzuki Swift can do - driving around town or up and down the freeways 90% of the time with minimal fuel burn/work.
You got butt hurt because I called it and the other four cylinders out for what they are, a noisy harsh un charismatic asthmatic dog. I get that, if you've dropped $70k on one and need to justify this to yourself in a remorseful way.

Many of the 'anti' posters continually make mention of terms like highly strung or over stressed, which do tend to infer an engine on the limit of reliability etc. At least that's what Google says. That's why I asked for clarification on the terminology because it's easy to say but rather harder to actually prove. I mean, traditionally high strung means the power is achieved by having to rev quite high. That doesn't fit with the bi turbo. Over stressed? Again, the terminology seems to be more about scaremongering than anything else. There is nothing in the physical build of the engine to suggest its being stressed, or over stressed.

So apologies if I got the wrong idea but the language used does tend to suggest ticking time bomb.

I'm not butt hurt. I'm well aware that there is no 'one size fits all' vehicle. I bought my Everest because I'm a Ford guy, it ticks all the boxes I need it to and I like it. I chose the 2.0/10sp because I like technology. I was upgrading from territory and the 3.2/6sp didn't seem like an upgrade. I don't buy cars to please other people. Having owned it for about 9000km my opinion of it doesn't align with yours but I get the feeling we treat our cars rather differently.

As a separate note... I do notice that those who don't like the smaller engined cars do tend to use aggressive language all the time. I'm no psychologist so can't comment but just an observation of mine.

[kevino]

Of course the two litre bi turbo diesel motor is being phased out soon by Ford globally probably as a result of tightening emission regulations.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by prydey

As a separate note... I do notice that those who don't like the smaller engined cars do tend to use aggressive language all the time. I'm no psychologist so can't comment but just an observation of mine.

Might be reading into it a bit too much I think.
Have had 2.0 hdi in Peugeot/Citroen and 2.0 BMW M47 in a 3 series.
Not the last word in refinement but they don’t have poor NVH the Thai specials do. These produce around 30% less power and torque than the bi turbo. I suspect with the bi turbo they’ve cranked up peak combustion pressure, fuel rail pressure and boost so the trade off is a not as refined engine. But I could be wrong.
Have also had Mercedes OM613 3.2 straight six 145kw/470nm in a W210 E320 CDI and BMW M57 3.0 6cyl 160kw/500nm and these are probably the benchmark for light vehicle diesels in regards to refinement, performance and reliability. So after living with these two engines you can imagine my disgust jumping into a mediocre 4cylinder Thai special with a price tag knocking on 6 figures.

[CyberWasp]

My question is, If an Engine from the Factory is High Strung or Highly Stressed then how can (Insert Manufacturer's Engine) have more Power Produced from them by Aftermarket Tuners?

Not saying it is a good or wise thing to do, just that if they were, the Tuners would just say there is nothing extra we can get out of this.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by smoo

So after living with these two engines you can imagine my disgust jumping into a mediocre 4cylinder Thai special with a price tag knocking on 6 figures.

The engines aren't thai built though and even my wife comments about how nice the Everest is (quieter, smoother) than territory.

I guess it depends on perspective. Coming from the Aussie built cars, I know it's sacrilegious to say, I like our Escape and Everest more.

I haven't experienced euro cars too compare with.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

My question is, If an Engine from the Factory is High Strung or Highly Stressed then how can (Insert Manufacturer's Engine) have more Power Produced from them by Aftermarket Tuners?

Not saying it is a good or wise thing to do, just that if they were, the Tuners would just say there is nothing extra we can get out of this.

Different story today with everything being boosted but an example of manufacturers screwing as much safety out of a tune was AU 220kw v8,s

It was the last hoorah for the mighty Windsor and Ford had screwed as much as they could out of the little 302 to compete with the larger LS in the Commodore at 215kw ....the windsor wasn't really highly stressed because there was no boost involved, but most tuners would tell you they really weren't worth tuning because of the small gains to be made compared to the LS or BA 5.4l

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by PooDog

Different story today with everything being boosted but an example of manufacturers screwing as much safety out of a tune was AU 220kw v8,s

It was the last hoorah for the mighty Windsor and Ford had screwed as much as they could out of the little 302 to compete with the larger LS in the Commodore at 215kw ....the windsor wasn't really highly stressed because there was no boost involved, but most tuners would tell you they really weren't worth tuning because of the small gains to be made compared to the LS or BA 5.4l

Low compression and crap heads,

Mind you they managed to do 250KW in the T3 with their stroker assembly

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Low compression and crap heads,

Mind you they managed to do 250KW in the T3 with their stroker assembly

Yes but that's a 342 compared to a 302 ( there's no replacement for displacement)

[XR Martin]

302w made 104kw when it came out in 1982.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by smoo

Might be reading into it a bit too much I think.
Have had 2.0 hdi in Peugeot/Citroen and 2.0 BMW M47 in a 3 series.
Not the last word in refinement but they don’t have poor NVH the Thai specials do. These produce around 30% less power and torque than the bi turbo. I suspect with the bi turbo they’ve cranked up peak combustion pressure, fuel rail pressure and boost so the trade off is a not as refined engine. But I could be wrong.
Have also had Mercedes OM613 3.2 straight six 145kw/470nm in a W210 E320 CDI and BMW M57 3.0 6cyl 160kw/500nm and these are probably the benchmark for light vehicle diesels in regards to refinement, performance and reliability. So after living with these two engines you can imagine my disgust jumping into a mediocre 4cylinder Thai special with a price tag knocking on 6 figures.

This is what stopped me from purchasing a new Everest or Ranger was the inflated price, not to mention the cost for extras.
I also went for a more refine vehicle for extra comfort.
I kept the old 3.2 for towing only.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by PooDog

Yes but that's a 342 compared to a 302 ( there's no replacement for displacement)

Probably a better comparison to the LS1 - 5.7L

When you think about it they did a decent job with the budget on the T3 to work with what they had to get it competitive with the new LS engine which is all alloy.

Ford Australia was always mint working miracles on shoestring budgets, T3 was going in with a ~50 year old engine platform.

Curious about how much input they had on the new Ranger, or if it all got taken off them.

Saw this yesterday and had a bit of a chuckle



Always appreciate someone who can take the **** out of themselves - big rainbow sticker that says 'COMPENSATING'.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Probably a better comparison to the LS1 - 5.7L

When you think about it they did a decent job with the budget on the T3 to work with what they had to get it competitive with the new LS engine which is all alloy.

Ford Australia was always mint working miracles on shoestring budgets, T3 was going in with a ~50 year old engine platform.

Curious about how much input they had on the new Ranger, or if it all got taken off them.

Saw this yesterday and had a bit of a chuckle

image

Always appreciate someone who can take the **** out of themselves - big rainbow sticker that says 'COMPENSATING'.

Yep the T3 used to just rip the LS a new one , I was more impressed with the little 302 it used to get bagged big time because it couldn't complete torque wise ....but your talking a cast iron block ,cast heads V Chevy,s latest high tech all alloy version of a 350 ....Ford did a pretty good job making honey out of goat shit

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Not with the original injectors, intake cleaned out, water pump, check valve, turbo, oil pickup etc.
Fact is the 1KD needs about $7k spent on it every 200k kms to keep it reliable.

+

Originally Posted by PooDog

"There's no replacement for displacement "

= laughs in GRJ150R

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Same coin now buys you something with drum brakes on the rear and a diesel engine less than half the size, that steers and handles like the Costa Concordia while doing a 1/4 mile and 80-120 time that would struggle to best a Starfire Commodore

And a live axle rear for the most.

How far we've fallen since 2016/17.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I’ve been watching these developments with interest, I wonder how many ISO approved corporations
are now compelled to start buying “greener” vehicles like the BYD Shark 6 and getting rid of all those
Conventional diesel Utes, I’m still not sure how much impact has and how many buyers will stump up.

I wonder if the price of the Shark 6 forces a rethink on Ranger PHEV pricing and Hilux hybrid,
I simply don’t know what impact BYD will have on which vehicles….

Fleet managers at companies with environmental management systems/ISO14001 certifications like Downer are going to be flying their knickers out the window on their way to the BYD dealership, they've got a 'Green' alternative for their extensive Thailand Special fleet now,

The fact it can also give you ~6KW worth of mains power on site is icing on the shit sandwich,

Stuff like this governments put in requirements for on their infrastructure builds, at work we're on the supplier list of a very large infrastructure contractor, because we tick a box they need ticked for a government project, not because they need our skills, they have their own in house crew that so what we do but they need us to tick the box.

You pay for all of this through your taxes,

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I’ve been watching these developments with interest, I wonder how many ISO approved corporations
are now compelled to start buying “greener” vehicles like the BYD Shark 6 and getting rid of all those
Conventional diesel Utes, I’m still not sure how much impact has and how many buyers will stump up.

I wonder if the price of the Shark 6 forces a rethink on Ranger PHEV pricing and Hilux hybrid,
I simply don’t know what impact BYD will have on which vehicles….

yes will be interesting viewing from the sideline but there is alot more they look at not just the green outlook.
Support/parts/servicing etcetc....
BYD will have to invest heavily ahead to make that flip more realistic for its not just about the vehicle purchasing.
To date most Chinese brands are struggling having parts for repairs.
All this is going to be quite a while yet imo.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by FTE217

yes will be interesting viewing from the sideline but there is alot more they look at not just the green outlook.
Support/parts/servicing etcetc....
BYD will have to invest heavily ahead to make that flip more realistic for its not just about the vehicle purchasing.
To date most Chinese brands are struggling having parts for repairs.
All this is going to be quite a while yet imo.

Then there's the whole Gov dept's not wanting to share their vehicle data with the Chinese Communist party or others who can't unburden what has been.

[XR Martin]

It's actually illegal to dump products on a market at less than cost price, BYD have admitted that the Shark costs much more to build than what they are selling it for.
Why isn't anything being done about this?
China are dumping everything they can in whatever market is available to them and all its going to do is collapse what choice there is. The major manufacturers will no longer bother with here, and id be surprised if there's any left within ten years at this rate.

Cars will end like being phones, kept for a year or two and thrown away.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

It's actually illegal to dump products on a market at less than cost price, BYD have admitted that the Shark cost much more to build than what they are selling it for.
Why isn't anything being done about this?
China are dumping everything they can in whatever market is available to them and all its going to do is collapse what choice we have and all the major manufacturers will no longer bother with here.
I'd be surprised if there's any left within ten years at this rate.

I'm surprised anyone is surprised about what China does, they do this with every product.

[Sprintey]

"Look on my Works, ye Mighty buyers of $80,000 dual cabs, and despair!"

- Ozy Man Daz

https://www.frankstontoyota.com.au/c...cruiser-332555

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

It's actually illegal to dump products on a market at less than cost price, BYD have admitted that the Shark costs much more to build than what they are selling it for.
Why isn't anything being done about this?
China are dumping everything they can in whatever market is available to them and all its going to do is collapse what choice there is. The major manufacturers will no longer bother with here, and id be surprised if there's any left within ten years at this rate.

Cars will end like being phones, kept for a year or two and thrown away.

It’s actually not illegal, Australia signed a free trade agreement with China,
so it’s car makers are free to sell their vehicles in Australia for whatever price.
Everything sold here that’s light vehicles are all imported so open slather to kill each
others brands..the government couldn’t care less, in fact prefer anything that drives
down prices for consumers.

Now if you’re talking about Europe, then that’s completely different because they
actually have a car industry that they want to protect, so killing those jobs is not permitted.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It’s actually not illegal, Australia signed a free trade agreement with China,
so it’s car makers are free to sell their vehicles in Australia for whatever price.
Everything sold here that’s light vehicles are all imported so open slather to kill each
others brands..the government couldn’t care less, in fact prefer anything that drives
down prices for consumers.

Now if you’re talking about Europe, then that’s completely different because they
actually have a car industry that they want to protect, so killing those jobs is not permitted.

We still signed free trade agreements with Thailand, and we subsidised their manufacturing industry with tax incentices, while we still had our own manufacturing industry, so that happened too.

We've got nothing to protect anymore, so who cares, I don't particularly care if Australian consumers go from buying Thailand manufactured vehicles to Chinese manufactured vehicles.

If it means more competition and prices come down then thats a win for us.

I've taken advantage of CHAFTA - its more cost competitive for me to import product from China than other markets, would prefer to support Taiwan but we don't have a free trade agreement with them.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It’s actually not illegal, Australia signed a free trade agreement with China,
so it’s car makers are free to sell their vehicles in Australia for whatever price.
Everything sold here that’s light vehicles are all imported so open slather to kill each
others brands..the government couldn’t care less, in fact prefer anything that drives
down prices for consumers.

Now if you’re talking about Europe, then that’s completely different because they
actually have a car industry that they want to protect, so killing those jobs is not permitted.

Anti dumping is illegal under the WTO.

[Rastas]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

It's actually illegal to dump products on a market at less than cost price, BYD have admitted that the Shark costs much more to build than what they are selling it for.
Why isn't anything being done about this?
China are dumping everything they can in whatever market is available to them and all its going to do is collapse what choice there is. The major manufacturers will no longer bother with here, and id be surprised if there's any left within ten years at this rate.

Cars will end like being phones, kept for a year or two and thrown away.

Just a quick one on your Dumping accusation here , in Sept BYD sold 420000 cars - only 8% were sold outside of China...... so kinda hard to go along with the Paid Off Media narrative of Dumping on this one.

[BENT_8]

Took a 1.9l MUX for a spin today, can see why they are a Govco fleet queen but at $51,990da for a new 4x4 that would do the few minutes my Wife does each day to work and back plus tow the Waverunner on the odd occasion it would be sufficient and nothing more.
Alternatives are used diesels which worry me doing repeated short trips once the warranty expires or new Chinese LDV, GWM.
As it would be the Wifes daily Im going to let her test it in traffic on Saturday and she can decide.

What I did notice is the 1.9l is much quieter than the 3.0l at idle, isnt too bad under acceleration and hums along at 110 without any of the gear hunting some reviewers claim.
It did struggle off the line on a reasonably steep incline which isnt suprising.