Another 86 Aussie workers loose to Asia.

[MNM96]

Sorry about the big font size! Learning how to personalize my posts.

PS Johnny Mac, the port aint getting younger, but is getting better!!

[MO]

Originally Posted by MNM96

Sorry about the big font size! Learning how to personalize my posts.

PS Johnny Mac, the port aint getting younger, but is getting better!!

I have just had approval for travel ...so give me about the 2/3 months and I will come and visit.

[ebxr8240]

Trainning and trades is what we need right NOW !!!
The IR laws are NOT going to help in this area....

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Bit of a sweeping generalisation there. Anyone that does not take an interest in their working conditions/rights is a retard!!! They are probably too scared of being fired on the spot to say or do anything about their situation.

Calling people retards huh?
Very mature.


Walkinshaw, we have had the laws in for the last 3 months and we have had falling unemployment; much to the chagrin of the ALP and the unions. You will never convince an ignoramus like outbackjack otherwise and they will draw on all kinds of fabricated statistics to try and make their point have more impact; especially when they speak from such a flawed position.

It's always; "I know better than you because I know people who worked here or did that", but the economic indicators like the official unemployment level contradict their point, so they have nothing better to come up with little catch phrases like "Anyone that does not take an interest in their working conditions/rights is a retard", or making BS ads about so called cases IR laws' abuse. This type of attitude is complete thuggery from basically people frustrated due to their limited intellectual capacity.
This has been one of the biggest problems with unions for the last few years, as they have failed to evolve with the times and hence their dwindling membership. Plans like "Manu-safe", did their membership numbers no favours either.

This alone represents one of the most compelling reasons never to let sub intelligent, illiterate socialists run the country - as their mantra of simply "do what I say or I'll bash ya" can only gift us another "recession we had to have" due to their inability to understand living on planet earth and not planet Australia.

I suppose I better stop now, lest I be called a "retard" by another distinguished member of the forum.

[WASP]

At the risk of upset setting a few I’ll just say this. As an employer the trends of employment opportunities going off shore does not surprise me. With generation Y & X particularly in Australia, excessive wages, package requests and what I consider to an reasonably expectation of senior job title without the runs on the board to back it up becomes very tiring and non viable as a business proposition. I employed my first Indian Application developer the other day and have to say that he’s the first employee in a long time that was actually grateful for the job, not completely wage driven and willing to work his way to the top rather than expecting it handed to him without having to prove his capability first.

This bothers me to no end that I can’t find local talent with the same attitude and work ethics. I’m sure there are a few out there, but it’s like finding a needle in a haystack.

I see the future of my business being largely based on team of capable Senior Managers, Art Directors and IT Staff coordinating a global rather than local team of designers and programmers etc to deliver solutions to our clients. Finding cost effective, hard working and ethical labour in this country (in my industry anyway) is fast becoming un realistic and non viable from a business perspective.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by CDAA

At the risk of upset setting a few I’ll just say this. As an employer the trends of employment opportunities going off shore does not surprise me. With generation Y & X particularly in Australia, excessive wages, package requests and what I consider to an reasonably expectation of senior job title without the runs on the board to back it up becomes very tiring and non viable as a business proposition. I employed my first Indian Application developer the other day and have to say that he’s the first employee in a long time that was actually grateful for the job, not completely wage driven and willing to work his way to the top rather than expecting it handed to him without having to prove his capability first.

This bothers me to no end that I can’t find local talent with the same attitude and work ethics. I’m sure there are a few out there, but it’s like finding a needle in a haystack.

I see the future of my business being largely based on team of capable Senior Managers, Art Directors and IT Staff coordinating a global rather than local team of designers and programmers etc to deliver solutions to our clients. Finding cost effective, hard working and ethical labour in this country (in my industry anyway) is fast becoming un realistic and non viable from a business perspective.

I too am an employer, basically in engineering & machining. I have had positions vacant here for months (bordering on years).. There seems to be a complete lack of QUALITY Fitter/Machinists with CNC & CAD skills in this country! With all these manufacturing & auto component industries closing, you'd think this the opposite?... Just where are these redundant tradesmen going?.. They can't ALL be buying Jim's mowing franchises!
My last 4 applicants have been Indian or Sri Lankin, who have resumes that would embarrass Einstein... Diplomas of this, diplomas of that..
Up until now, I have always gone for fellow Australians... Now, before anyone starts, this ISN'T a racial thing.. It's more in keeping a harmonious factory floor, And at the end of the day.. I am paying their wage so surely I can chose who I employ.
However, the time is rapidly approaching when I HAVE to give one of these guys a go. And CDAA's comments about his Indian application developer reinforces my views...
Too many nowadays still have the "world owes them a living" approach to their employment. It all seems to be about what will YOU give ME, rather than what I can offer you as an employee!
:

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by ltd

Calling people retards huh?
Very mature.


Walkinshaw, we have had the laws in for the last 3 months and we have had falling unemployment; much to the chagrin of the ALP and the unions. You will never convince an ignoramus like outbackjack otherwise and they will draw on all kinds of fabricated statistics to try and make their point have more impact; especially when they speak from such a flawed position.

It's always; "I know better than you because I know people who worked here or did that", but the economic indicators like the official unemployment level contradict their point, so they have nothing better to come up with little catch phrases like "Anyone that does not take an interest in their working conditions/rights is a retard", or making BS ads about so called cases IR laws' abuse. This type of attitude is complete thuggery from basically people frustrated due to their limited intellectual capacity.
This has been one of the biggest problems with unions for the last few years, as they have failed to evolve with the times and hence their dwindling membership. Plans like "Manu-safe", did their membership numbers no favours either.

This alone represents one of the most compelling reasons never to let sub intelligent, illiterate socialists run the country - as their mantra of simply "do what I say or I'll bash ya" can only gift us another "recession we had to have" due to their inability to understand living on planet earth and not planet Australia.

I suppose I better stop now, lest I be called a "retard" by another distinguished member of the forum.

You are a funny wee fellow stunt butt. You act all indignant because you thought that you were called a retard. Of course I did not call you a retard, you assumed that title by yourself. If you place yourself into that group of unfortunates that take no interest in their working conditions, that is your choice. Then you collectively insult about 50% of the people on this forum by calling people with socialist leanings "sub intelligent, illiterate socialists" I base the 50% on a rough assumption that the number of people on this forum would probably be a close proportion to the political alliances of Australia. I will explain for you. Last election approx half the national electorate voted labour, about 30% liberal and about 20% country. So really the liberal party is in government with a minority vote. And if anybody spurts out catch phrases it is you.

And since I feel it is safe to asume that you think I am in that "limited intellectual capacity" group, dont make such dumb mistakes. You are obviuosly an aerial bus driver. I can do that!!! So that means you must be as dumb as me.... But what you dont know is that I work with a team of engineers that work with "toys" that fly higher and faster than anything you could ever aspire to. In fact the concorde is a childs toy in comparison. So pease dont drag down the tone of these type of threads. Having said that I know that I can type things that I wish later on that I hadn't. Spirited banter is good fun, and in the long run good for democracy. But you really should read much more carefully to what people have written. In your thread you insulted more people with one post than most of us have in hundreds. So if you have read this far, dont bother replying with more abuse and insults. I will not bother to respond to you anymore.

Have a great day.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by charliewool

I too am an employer, basically in engineering & machining. I have had positions vacant here for months (bordering on years).. There seems to be a complete lack of QUALITY Fitter/Machinists with CNC & CAD skills in this country! With all these manufacturing & auto component industries closing, you'd think this the opposite?... Just where are these redundant tradesmen going?.. They can't ALL be buying Jim's mowing franchises!
My last 4 applicants have been Indian or Sri Lankin, who have resumes that would embarrass Einstein... Diplomas of this, diplomas of that..
Up until now, I have always gone for fellow Australians... Now, before anyone starts, this ISN'T a racial thing.. It's more in keeping a harmonious factory floor, And at the end of the day.. I am paying their wage so surely I can chose who I employ.
However, the time is rapidly approaching when I HAVE to give one of these guys a go. And CDAA's comments about his Indian application developer reinforces my views...
Too many nowadays still have the "world owes them a living" approach to their employment. It all seems to be about what will YOU give ME, rather than what I can offer you as an employee!
:

Gidday Charlie wool, how many apprentices have you trained?? Do you not feel that, to support the industry you are in you should be taking on young trainees and training them up the way your company wants/needs. If your industry doesnt take responsibility for bringing in new blood, who will.

Perhaps this is part of the problem, perhaps the industry has itself to blame to certain degree? And now we start to employ foreigners because they are cheap and look good on paper. I hope you can find a decent Australian to join your company. But from my experience in the engineering field, when you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. And whenever I have been on the job hunt, what the employer can offer me is very important to me. After all, without people, companies are nothing, no workers, no customers. But for thousands of years people have survived without conpanies. The industrial revolution changed all that... but thats a different story.

Cheers.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Bit of a sweeping generalisation there. Anyone that does not take an interest in their working conditions/rights is a retard!!! They are probably too scared of being fired on the spot to say or do anything about their situation.

dont worry mate remember . not many people would stop after running you over or seeing you get bashed in the street anymore . probably an overwhelming majority of people these days . it's called f u jack i'm ok.
so you wont get a lot of people agreeing with you, it's the worl we live in today.

[MO]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

dont worry mate remember . not many people would stop after running you over or seeing you get bashed in the street anymore . probably an overwhelming majority of people these days . it's called f u jack i'm ok.
so you wont get a lot of people agreeing with you, it's the worl we live in today.

So bloody true and so bloody sad....maybe more to do with 'don't get involved and we'll be right'

[MO]

ltd....I assume from some of your posts your a student of Keynes' economic theory...he too bit the dust.

And I agree with Outbackjack....read the post properly and then post...you were not called a retard.

To further the 'socialist side of the coin' an employee of Spotlight recently gave up $90.00 p/w for a two cent an hour pay rise by going on an AWA....tell me they were not CONNED.

[ltd]

Should have guessed, as soon as outback says something the little lapdog comes yapping behind him.

I have not implied that outback called me a retard; I took exception to him using the word retard, and its obvious implication toward the disabled. The lack of both respect and regard shown to this group in his post speaks volumes about his character. It would have been easier and less harmful to write;
"Anyone that does not take an interest in their working conditions/rights is an idiot!!!"

But no, he has to vilify the one group, which is also conveniently the most overlooked, vulnerable people in this nation by writing;
"Anyone that does not take an interest in their working conditions/rights is an retard!!!"
And before you or outback try to climb onto that high horse in some scurrilous attempt to justify the use of the word, find out what it cost Tiger Woods or Lleyton Hewitt when they made that exact same reference.

If you both mistook my objection to the offending post and can’t seem to distinguish what is offensive and what is not, then perhaps reading books instead of simply using Google to find references in some queerly derived intelligence edification may be of benefit.

Keynes’s economic theory? Ouch, that really knocked me back into my place.

I could go on for hours about how ridiculous your accusation are, but quite frankly, I’m too successful to be worried what any double figure IQ’d people think.

Finally, Outback, I am not a glorified bus driver. I don’t operate charters or the like. Thanks for clearing up the rumour that NASA has now decided to centre its new space program around Alice Springs where you and your friends work. Maybe they’ll strap the new deep space vehicle to the back of that Cessna and get you to piggyback it into space.

[MethodX]

Gawd, How precious.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by John McMaster

To further the 'socialist side of the coin' an employee of Spotlight recently gave up $90.00 p/w for a two cent an hour pay rise by going on an AWA....tell me they were not CONNED.

Provide some more facts on the case and it would probably make for a great discussion amoungst us here who enjoy these topics. The two observations you have included here do suggest they were conned - but alas, the full story is not to be found.

There could be a myriad of factors. Maybe there were changes to penalty arrangements? Or some changes made under the AWA to suit the employee's personal life? Unionists may scoff at such a possibility but having been employed under an AWA for the last 3 years, i can assure you there is a lot more 'guts' in them than meets the eye.

I realise that obtaining all the facts is a near-impossible job and dont seriously expect them to be brought out. I guess i'm just saying a couple of highlights (ok, lowlights) from an ACTU press release dont really constitute a decisive blow on behalf of the socialist side of the coin.

And on a more general note... this is another fine example of how our views on such a matter can be hashed out with raising hell with the AFF admin/moderators. I'd just ask that we try and keep it that way - i.e. avoid some of the personal conflict which often comes between two strong, opposing views.

Let's keep the discussion to the issues and not the people hey guys? I mean, i wouldnt expect members like ob jack, gtfpv and Mr mcmaster to hold a terribly high opinion of me after some of our 'chats'... but i'd gladly buy each and every one of them a beer if we ever wound up at the same watering hole. Let's just try not to get too personal Thread might stay open a bit longer that way (and i'll never have to fight my way out of an alice/melbourne/sydney pub!! lol)

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Provide some more facts on the case and it would probably make for a great discussion amoungst us here who enjoy these topics. The two observations you have included here do suggest they were conned - but alas, the full story is not to be found.

There could be a myriad of factors. Maybe there were changes to penalty arrangements? Or some changes made under the AWA to suit the employee's personal life? Unionists may scoff at such a possibility but having been employed under an AWA for the last 3 years, i can assure you there is a lot more 'guts' in them than meets the eye.

I realise that obtaining all the facts is a near-impossible job and dont seriously expect them to be brought out. I guess i'm just saying a couple of highlights (ok, lowlights) from an ACTU press release dont really constitute a decisive blow on behalf of the socialist side of the coin.

And on a more general note... this is another fine example of how our views on such a matter can be hashed out with raising hell with the AFF admin/moderators. I'd just ask that we try and keep it that way - i.e. avoid some of the personal conflict which often comes between two strong, opposing views.

Let's keep the discussion to the issues and not the people hey guys? I mean, i wouldnt expect members like ob jack, gtfpv and Mr mcmaster to hold a terribly high opinion of me after some of our 'chats'... but i'd gladly buy each and every one of them a beer if we ever wound up at the same watering hole. Let's just try not to get too personal Thread might stay open a bit longer that way (and i'll never have to fight my way out of an alice/melbourne/sydney pub!! lol)

Olive branch's are growing thick and fast around here...... I'll buy you a beer some day. it will have to be imported, as the next thing to go will be our breweries..... Now THAT will throw a cat amomgst the pigeons!!! :

Cheers.

[MO]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Provide some more facts on the case and it would probably make for a great discussion amoungst us here who enjoy these topics. The two observations you have included here do suggest they were conned - but alas, the full story is not to be found.

There could be a myriad of factors. Maybe there were changes to penalty arrangements? Or some changes made under the AWA to suit the employee's personal life? Unionists may scoff at such a possibility but having been employed under an AWA for the last 3 years, i can assure you there is a lot more 'guts' in them than meets the eye.

I realise that obtaining all the facts is a near-impossible job and dont seriously expect them to be brought out. I guess i'm just saying a couple of highlights (ok, lowlights) from an ACTU press release dont really constitute a decisive blow on behalf of the socialist side of the coin.



And on a more general note... this is another fine example of how our views on such a matter can be hashed out with raising hell with the AFF admin/moderators. I'd just ask that we try and keep it that way - i.e. avoid some of the personal conflict which often comes between two strong, opposing views.

Let's keep the discussion to the issues and not the people hey guys? I mean, i wouldnt expect members like ob jack, gtfpv and Mr mcmaster to hold a terribly high opinion of me after some of our 'chats'... but i'd gladly buy each and every one of them a beer if we ever wound up at the same watering hole. Let's just try not to get too personal Thread might stay open a bit longer that way (and i'll never have to fight my way out of an alice/melbourne/sydney pub!! lol)

You forgot Qld and I'm two and a half hours north of Brissy...but you are forgiven as I lived in the Top End for 16 years...six in darwin and ten in 'The Alice'.

Wouldn't it be a terrible world if we were all the same and I will gladly have a beer with you.