All things Solar (merged threads)

[lotus]

Had solar panels fitted last year and have just recieved my first account with solar for the full quarter. I got a 6KW system installed and instead of an account of around $900.00 (summer with a/c, spa,pool ect) I have a $510.00 credit.
To say I am pleased is an understatement, but as long as I don't get a bill, I'm happy.

[z80]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

where is the proof of such a wildly inaccurate statement.....I have all relevant contracts and documents from my supplier and installer and nowhere on any of them does it show that I MUST sign up for or agree to or participate in any green energy schemes at a higher cost.....I nor anyone I know was MADE to do anything by either the solar installers nor my energy suppliers!

This is funny, "wildly innacurate" ?

Have you checked what your peak power per KW rate was before and after you agreed to a grid feed in plan?



Mine in victoria was 17c peak for dirty brown coal power and is now 27c/kw cause I am on a grid feed in plan.

Luckily I don't use any off the grid.

Off course they pay me 66c for grid fed power from my panels.

You can't have it all ways matey.

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

I also made 3 quick phone calls to solar suppliers and queried this with them....none had ever heard of, nor would think of doing anything like this, nor could they, as they stated they do not and cannot regulate or change a suppliers price index with a client, they also asked who was making such litigious statements about the industry!

Nothing to do with solar installers, everything to do with electricity suppliers....

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

this practice would be highly illegal! and i think would be defended in a court of law!

Nothing illegal about an electric company making profits....

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

green energy is something we choose to either participate in or we don't!

Sorry to burst your bubble...when you elect to grid feed you are a green energy generator...

It's your prime motivation for going solar isn't it?

Or are you doing it for the money?

(so is the electricity provider funnily enough)

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

it's not why your bill is higher.....you have a problem somewhere!!

oops...you are wrong....

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

ring your supplier and check your account for increased tariffs!!

It's a grid feed in tarriff...the peak rate is always higher....

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

tell your installer about what is going on!

He couldn't care less, he has already been paid.

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

DO NOT PUT MORE PANELS ON.......this could be the reason why you are showing higher usage.!

Unbelievably bad advice.

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

in fact I would disconnect the panels i had up there already until this problem is sorted!

OMG...this is so wrong...

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

sort it out through your electricity supplier (cost of tariff compared to same time last year)!

It's a grid feed in plan...

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

speak to your solar array installer or supplier as to why your bill is higher than before and what needs to be done to correct it!!

They will tell you the same as me...either put more panels up or don't use power between 7am and 11pm.

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

and i agree, be very careful about online advice, ..particularly those that are proven to be merely seeking to create trouble!

that's a shame.

[davenl5l]

solar hot water rebate gone! hmmm mabee i better be quick on my solar power ?

[Stagg]

Just to clarify, I did read the news last night and the solar hot water rebate that has ended was the Federal rebate of $1000 when replacing electric water heaters.

You are still able to claim the STC's rebate and state government rebates, in Victoria here you can still claim the STC's, VEECs, and the Sustainability Victoria rebate of $900 to $1500 when replacing gas, and you MAY be able to claim the Sustainability Victoria rebate of $600 when replacing electric.

You could only claim the $600 if you had previously claimed the insulation rebate, however now that the $1000 is gone they may be accepting all replacements of electric water heaters.

I had said to many MANY people who called me wanting to replace their electric hot water, that the rebates will not be around forever... I had my last day of work yesterday and I can easily recall three customers who were waiting a few more weeks to see if the price would come down, after I disagreed. I had told them, it's the classic Carrot and Stick principle. The government is offering you rebates to persuade you to buy solar hot water. Now that the carbon tax is coming, the government sees no reason to fund rebates, when people will be forced to buy solar hot water anyway, so if they must buy solar, it will come at a higher price, i.e. using the stick.

Further proof that electroc water heaters are being phased out is here:

http://www.climatechange.gov.au/what...phase-out.aspx

[davenl5l]

yea and i think solar hws are too dear anyway they have been around for a long time & should be cheaper maybee it will be like solar power & the price will come down without the rebate! (i know im dreaming)

[Stagg]

Now I must clarify for this thread as it is getting quite ambiguous.

The information that I post on this thread are from reliable sources within the industry, such as managers at both a state and national level, STC, LGC, VEECs traders, Experienced plumbers, and on occasion speaking to a Rheem lobbyist.

The following information is 100% true:

- Solar hot water DOES pay for itself. Whether it takes 10, 15 or 20 years, it will pay for itself. If you have to replace a solar in that timeframe i.e. buy a cheap system, and it must be replaced, the infrastructure has already been upgraded from the initial install and the second solar install price is drastically cheaper. Ask the plumbers of 50% of households in WA

- The price of solar hot water WILL NOT COME DOWN. Many people are currently sitting on the sideline waiting for the price to come down. After yesterday, if you are replacing an electric water heater, the price has risen by $1000 overnight. That is how volatile the industry can be.

- YOU WILL HAVE TO EVENTUALLY BUY SOLAR HOT WATER. All new homes in Victoria now and increasingly in other states, must have a solar hot water installed; as homes become older and are renovated or replaced, it is MANDATORY that they have solar hot water. Whether you wait to buy a new house or wait until your current hot water will die, at some point or another in the next 20 years you will be faced with no other choice other than to buy solar hot water.

- ELECTRIC HOT WATERS ARE CURRENTLY BEING BANNED. As my post before states, they are phasing out electric hot water and as mentioned before, at some point in the future you will be faced with no other alternative other than to buy solar hot water, inevitably.

- WOODFIRE IS A TRULY RENEWABLE WAY TO BOOST YOUR WATER. Yes, some people don't like woodfires, or their house does not have the right provisions to install a woodfire, but WOOD IS RENEWABLE. Electricity can be renewable also, and although gas boosting is efficient, natural gas is not renewable.

The above information is to clarify what is happening in the world of solar hot water and is 100% TRUE. Any other statements otherwise are opinions as opposed to facts.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by z80

This is funny, "wildly innacurate" ?

Have you checked what your peak power per KW rate was before and after you agreed to a grid feed in plan?



Mine in victoria was 17c peak for dirty brown coal power and is now 27c/kw cause I am on a grid feed in plan.

Luckily I don't use any off the grid.

Off course they pay me 66c for grid fed power from my panels.

You can't have it all ways matey.




Nothing to do with solar installers, everything to do with electricity suppliers....




Nothing illegal about an electric company making profits....





Sorry to burst your bubble...when you elect to grid feed you are a green energy generator...

It's your prime motivation for going solar isn't it?

Or are you doing it for the money?

(so is the electricity provider funnily enough)



oops...you are wrong....




It's a grid feed in tarriff...the peak rate is always higher....



He couldn't care less, he has already been paid.



Unbelievably bad advice.






OMG...this is so wrong...




It's a grid feed in plan...



They will tell you the same as me...either put more panels up or don't use power between 7am and 11pm.



that's a shame.

I'm not getting involved in your daytime dreams......you are heading for big problems if certain people see your statements

(1) if collusion between the solar industry and the power retailers can be proven as in regards to green energy then this will go to a senate enquiry

(2) if it cant be proven and you continue along this farcical path then you will face the courts

either way I will not be even reading your wildly inaccurate posts from now on!......you have completely shot your credibility down in flames!

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Stagg1991

your joking right???

no mate......I haven't heard the whole thing as i only caught a little of it from the radio as I was reinstalling a fellers thicknesser blades

not sure how far it reaches or what is involved but it doesn't look good!

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Stagg1991

Just to clarify, I did read the news last night and the solar hot water rebate that has ended was the Federal rebate of $1000 when replacing electric water heaters.

You are still able to claim the STC's rebate and state government rebates, in Victoria here you can still claim the STC's, VEECs, and the Sustainability Victoria rebate of $900 to $1500 when replacing gas, and you MAY be able to claim the Sustainability Victoria rebate of $600 when replacing electric.

You could only claim the $600 if you had previously claimed the insulation rebate, however now that the $1000 is gone they may be accepting all replacements of electric water heaters.

I had said to many MANY people who called me wanting to replace their electric hot water, that the rebates will not be around forever... I had my last day of work yesterday and I can easily recall three customers who were waiting a few more weeks to see if the price would come down, after I disagreed. I had told them, it's the classic Carrot and Stick principle. The government is offering you rebates to persuade you to buy solar hot water. Now that the carbon tax is coming, the government sees no reason to fund rebates, when people will be forced to buy solar hot water anyway, so if they must buy solar, it will come at a higher price, i.e. using the stick.

Further proof that electroc water heaters are being phased out is here:

http://www.climatechange.gov.au/what...phase-out.aspx

ah! yes the $1,000 was mentioned but I didn't hear it all, that would make sense!

I think I will still go solar hot water when i work out exactly what is going on with my account from Lumo!

should be getting the account shortly

in the scheme of things $1,000 isn't a great deal of money and as I say IN MY CASE my solar excess will pay for the hot water heater

[poppa smurf]

just had a nose around and came up with this off a guvvy website......damn shame!......government is not dinkum

and i quote

"A HOUSEHOLD rebate scheme for solar hot water systems has been abruptly closed by the Gillard government, prompting warnings it could cost clean energy manufacturing jobs.
More than 250,000 households have used the rebate to help replace more greenhouse gas-intensive water heaters.
The parliamentary secretary for climate change, Mark Dreyfus, announced yesterday (tues. 28 Feb. 2012) the Renewable Energy Bonus Scheme was being closed. It provides a $1000 rebate for a solar hot water system and $600 for a heat pump.
Mr Dreyfus said households must have installed, or purchased or ordered and paid a deposit on a system before close of business yesterday to qualify. Rebate applications must be lodged before June 30.
Industry figures said they were told it would close this year, but had hoped it would be extended after the government allocated it $24.5 million in budget forward estimates for 2012-13.
Gareth Jennings, of manufacturer Rheem, said it would leave ''tens of millions of dollars'' of systems sitting in warehouses. Up to a third of Rheem's 1200 staff work in solar water manufacturing. ''We could see the market halve overnight … all of that means jobs.'' Households can still qualify for payments under the Small-Scale Renewable Energy Scheme.".........end quote

more dismal futures for our workers!

[mik]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

just had a nose around and came up with this off a guvvy website......damn shame!......government is not dinkum

and i quote

"A HOUSEHOLD rebate scheme for solar hot water systems has been abruptly closed by the Gillard government, prompting warnings it could cost clean energy manufacturing jobs.
More than 250,000 households have used the rebate to help replace more greenhouse gas-intensive water heaters.
The parliamentary secretary for climate change, Mark Dreyfus, announced yesterday (tues. 28 Feb. 2012) the Renewable Energy Bonus Scheme was being closed. It provides a $1000 rebate for a solar hot water system and $600 for a heat pump.
Mr Dreyfus said households must have installed, or purchased or ordered and paid a deposit on a system before close of business yesterday to qualify. Rebate applications must be lodged before June 30.
Industry figures said they were told it would close this year, but had hoped it would be extended after the government allocated it $24.5 million in budget forward estimates for 2012-13.
Gareth Jennings, of manufacturer Rheem, said it would leave ''tens of millions of dollars'' of systems sitting in warehouses. Up to a third of Rheem's 1200 staff work in solar water manufacturing. ''We could see the market halve overnight … all of that means jobs.'' Households can still qualify for payments under the Small-Scale Renewable Energy Scheme.".........end quote

more dismal futures for our workers!

yep here`s another article on same
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...-budget-greens


The Australian Greens have accused the Gillard government of closing a household solar rebate scheme to help it deliver a surplus in the May budget.

The renewable energy bonus scheme, which provided a $1000 rebate for a solar hot water system and $600 for a heat pump, was closed abruptly late on Tuesday.

While the scheme closes at the end of June, only those who had paid a deposit by Tuesday were now eligible for the rebate.

The industry had hoped the scheme would be extended, after the government allocated $24.5 million towards it in budget forward estimates for 2012/13.

Greens Senator Christine Milne accused the government of cutting costs so it could achieve its promised budget surplus.

It was "a ridiculous idea" that in order to meet a political imperative, the government was jeopardising local manufacturers who were building export markets in the new low carbon economy.

Senator Milne said the decision would put enormous pressure on manufacturers such as Rheem, which employed about 1200 people around Australia.

"They are already under pressure because of the high Australian dollar," she told reporters in Canberra.

[comagutsa]

yeah just heard on the radio that they did it so they wouldnt get a rush of people ordering new ones as the scheme comes to an end ...

[poppa smurf]

damn shame is all I can say!.......either they want action on climate change or they don't!

gotta feel sorry for the fellers in the industry losing their positions just as the xmas credit card bills come in

just had a feller here and we were yakking, he has a solar water heater and he said he turns his booster off and just uses the sun to heat his water

given that he has not achieved his 70 degrees necessary to kill the germs in is storage tank wouldn't he be taking a risk???

I only ask this as I would be running mine the same (when and if I get one)

[comagutsa]

well when i was growing up on the farm we had a solar hot water system and the only time we ever turned the booster on was when there was no hot water
all our water was rain water and we never got sick or anything
reading this is the 1st time i have heard about over 70degrees to kill grems stuff

up here on the mines they go on about legionears (how ever you spell it) in our eye wash staitions as the water heat up in the sun and the water just sits there...to combat this they say all we need to do is flush the system 1-2 time a week and we dont have a problem

i know if i had solar hot water the only time id turn the booster on is when i ran out/needed of hot water

[poppa smurf]

ah! the on farm rainwater tank......we had a massive stone one, partially underground and partially above ground

water always sweet and cold, none of us never got sick regardless of how many dead pigeons, rats or mice were in there!

none of these modern diseases! Hah! Hah!

[comagutsa]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

ah! the on farm rainwater tank......we had a massive stone one, partially underground and partially above ground

water always sweet and cold, none of us never got sick regardless of how many dead pigeons, rats or mice were in there!

none of these modern diseases! Hah! Hah!

haha i hear you
we had 2 tanks off the shearing shed, 1 huge partially unground one also
many a dead rat, bird etc

how times have changed get sick from everything now

[mik]

funny you should mention the animals in the water tank, i lived on acreage as a young bloke for a few years, we had the old style corrugated iron water tank on a tree stump frame, the water was piped into the house via gravity, the hot water was run through the old kitchen wood fired stove to heat the water, sometimes it would boil in the pipe and would percolate out , i might add as an inquisitive young tacker one day i climbed up on top of the water tank see a dead frog floating around in said water tank ......ah the country life .

[Matty4]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

where is the proof of such a wildly inaccurate statement.....I have all relevant contracts and documents from my supplier and installer and nowhere on any of them does it show that I MUST sign up for or agree to or participate in any green energy schemes at a higher cost.....I nor anyone I know was MADE to do anything by either the solar installers nor my energy suppliers

I also made 3 quick phone calls to solar suppliers and queried this with them....none had ever heard of, nor would think of doing anything like this, nor could they, as they stated they do not and cannot regulate or change a suppliers price index with a client, they also asked who was making such litigious statements about the industry

this practice would be highly illegal! and i think would be defended in a court of law

green energy is something we choose to either participate in or we don't

it's not why your bill is higher.....you have a problem somewhere!

ring your supplier and check your account for increased tariffs!

tell your installer about what is going on

DO NOT PUT MORE PANELS ON.......this could be the reason why you are showing higher usage.

in fact I would disconnect the panels i had up there already until this problem is sorted

sort it out through your electricity supplier (cost of tariff compared to same time last year)

speak to your solar array installer or supplier as to why your bill is higher than before and what needs to be done to correct it!

and i agree, be very careful about online advice, ..particularly those that are proven to be merely seeking to create trouble!

Whilst I don't profess to know a great deal about the in's and out's of how solar retailers work, the research and quotes that I have obtained so far have led me to believe that once I go and instal a solar PV array (of any size) then I will also require a smart meter. Once this is installed and fully commissioned then I will be required to change tariff to the grid feed in tariff.

Before this turns ugly and becomes closed like so many other threads, I think we need to hear exactly what glenno1 has installed and where he lives.

If indeed he has a 1kw or 1.5kw system but uses 30+kwh per day and is on a smart meter now with the increased grid feed in tariff, then I do believe that his bills would go up slightly.
The figures z80 posted for Vic will also apply to me when I go solar (very soon).

Lets keep it all civil until we have a clearer picture eh!!!

Cheers,
Matty

[BLKWDW]

Just read this whole thread and my head hurts. After reading this i'm now considering getting solar power for my house. Wife reckons we use round $350- $400 quartely on our electricity bills with a house of 3 soon to be 4 kids and 3 adults. Dont have tens of thousands of dollars to spend on one but do want some sort of quality. Will spending round the 10k mark get me a decent setup? I'd like to be using the mo ney id normally spend on bills to pay for the solar power instead so its not costing me any extra is this achievable.

[poppa smurf]

it's dead simple to understand but can just as easily be taken sideways in an effort to create trouble and complicate the issue, which has happened here more than once


BLKWDW
(1) find out what your daily average usage is, found on your power bill
(2) work out your daily average sunlight hours are, easily found on the interweb
(3) from that sunlight / usage average decide what size system you would need
(4) get quotes from different websites

my tariff and supply charge went down and that was not by the grace of the solar supplier, that was by me negotiating with my energy retailer.......the only ones who can charge you for your power and set the tariffs

the choice to go "green energy" is in your hands, you do not have a choice as to what happens to the power you sell to your energy retailer and you are not affected by it

your energy retailer CANNOT automatically place you on the "green tariff" this is illegal.......they can sell your power on as "green" and charge others accordingly...THIS WILL NOT AFFECT YOUR PAYMENTS

glenno1 must take the steps as I have described earlier in an effort to understand what has happened......if he doesn't find out what the problem is then how can he fix it??......simply expanding the system may in fact compound the trouble if his meter is reading the input from the array as an import

having his bill jump from $300 to over $500 is far from a "slight increase".


here is a little bit of light reading for those who wish to know a little about the shiny flat plates of glass



How much energy will my solar cells produce?

by SOLAR CHOICE on JANUARY 19, 2010
in FAQ'S,INSTALLATION ADVICE,INVERTERS,WHAT ARE THE RIGHT SOLAR PV CELLS FOR YOU?

The electrical energy output of solar cells is obviously one of the crucial things that you need to know when looking to install a solar system. Some solar energy companies are giving a wide variety of unreferenced numbers, so we have done our research and provide you with fully referenced and reliable information for you to consider.

(Get a free comparison of solar quotes of the installers who operate in your area!)

What is energy output?

As explained in the article Physics 101 “ what is the difference between power and energy? – power and energy are not the same thing. The power rating of your system (kW) is a measure of how big your generation system is, not how much it will produce. This is analogous to a car engine, where the size of the engine gives you an indication of how powerful it is, but does not itself tell you how much petrol it will use, although the two are related.

With feed-in tariffs you are paid for the amount of electrical energy (kWh) your solar cells produce. Hence, that is what you need to know when doing the sums on how much revenue you can expect from your installation.

What is the energy output dependent on?

Of course the first factor influencing how much electrical energy you will generate is the size (otherwise known as rated power) of your solar installation. A large installation (higher kW’s) will produce more electrical energy (just as a bigger car engine has more grunt).

But if we move past the obvious impact of size, the amount of energy your solar cells produce depends on how much fuel they are fed (just as the amount of energy a car engine will produce depends on how much petrol you pump into it via your foot on the throttle). In the case of solar PV cells, their fuel is the sun.

The amount of sun your solar cells are exposed to (and hence how much energy they will generate) depends upon:

The orientation and tilt of your installation (which will be optimised by your installer)
Whether there are shadows cast over your cells (due to trees, buildings etc)
The number of daylight hours (governed by where you live)
The intensity of the sunlight (governed by where you live)
The number of hours of full sun vs cloudy days (governed by where you live)
If we exclude the first two factors, which you have a degree of control over, your location in Australia is the primary variable dictating how much energy your cells will produce. Hence, a 1.5kW system in Melbourne will typically not produce as much electrical energy over the year as the same system in Alice Springs.

The figures for average daily production

Fortunately, studies have been conducted that take all of the above factors into account and give the average energy output for solar cells in locations around Australia. These figures are given as:

The amount of electrical energy (kWh) a 1kW grid connected solar PV system will generate on an average day (kWh/kWp.day).

http://www.solarchoice.net.au/blog/w...ble-Energy.jpg

[davenl5l]

Originally Posted by Stagg1991

Just to clarify, I did read the news last night and the solar hot water rebate that has ended was the Federal rebate of $1000 when replacing electric water heaters.

You are still able to claim the STC's rebate and state government rebates, in Victoria here you can still claim the STC's, VEECs, and the Sustainability Victoria rebate of $900 to $1500 when replacing gas, and you MAY be able to claim the Sustainability Victoria rebate of $600 when replacing electric.

You could only claim the $600 if you had previously claimed the insulation rebate, however now that the $1000 is gone they may be accepting all replacements of electric water heaters.

I had said to many MANY people who called me wanting to replace their electric hot water, that the rebates will not be around forever... I had my last day of work yesterday and I can easily recall three customers who were waiting a few more weeks to see if the price would come down, after I disagreed. I had told them, it's the classic Carrot and Stick principle. The government is offering you rebates to persuade you to buy solar hot water. Now that the carbon tax is coming, the government sees no reason to fund rebates, when people will be forced to buy solar hot water anyway, so if they must buy solar, it will come at a higher price, i.e. using the stick.

Further proof that electroc water heaters are being phased out is here:

http://www.climatechange.gov.au/what...phase-out.aspx

been a plumber on and off for 40 years and i can tell you that with the crap water here in sa you would be lucky to have any storage hws last 10 years this is a fact so it will never pay for itself i have found even the panels dont last!

[ute83]

We are in Vic. Before going solar we had a dedicated meter for hot water and only hot water. Once you put a solar system on your roof you need a smart meter, otherwise you don't get paid the feed in tariff. The smart meter knows how much power you export. We had the old meter for about a month before we got the smart meter and it went backwards when we were making electricity. This just negates the power you have used, so it was in my best interest to go smart meter because we get the premium feed in tariff. There are three tariffs, peak & offpeak rate, dedicated circuit eg. hot water and lastly, single rate.
Upon changing to the smart meter we had to go on a time of use tariff which means is peak and off peak. Peak= 7 am to 11pm m-f. Off peak is everything else. Although this tariff is slightly dearer, if used smartly can be the cheapest option eg, doing washing and soforth on the weekends. Hopefully this clears up some of the confusion.

[glenno1]

wow what a can of worms this has opened.i must admit i didnt look into it as i should have before getting the solar put on.
i have a dreadful habit of trusting people too much . i will take the advise from the comments i have read and check my next bill .
i did have a beer fridge that was constantly running so maybe that was sucking the juice but i have since got rid of that so now i will wait and see if that makes a difference to my bill .

Originally Posted by z80

This is funny, "wildly innacurate" ?

Have you checked what your peak power per KW rate was before and after you agreed to a grid feed in plan?



Mine in victoria was 17c peak for dirty brown coal power and is now 27c/kw cause I am on a grid feed in plan.

Luckily I don't use any off the grid.

Off course they pay me 66c for grid fed power from my panels.

You can't have it all ways matey.




Nothing to do with solar installers, everything to do with electricity suppliers....




Nothing illegal about an electric company making profits....





Sorry to burst your bubble...when you elect to grid feed you are a green energy generator...

It's your prime motivation for going solar isn't it?

Or are you doing it for the money?

(so is the electricity provider funnily enough)



oops...you are wrong....




It's a grid feed in tarriff...the peak rate is always higher....



He couldn't care less, he has already been paid.



Unbelievably bad advice.






OMG...this is so wrong...




It's a grid feed in plan...



They will tell you the same as me...either put more panels up or don't use power between 7am and 11pm.



that's a shame.

[z80]

poppasmurf,

Everything I have posted is 100% correct.

Misconstrue it to be as libelous as you like...I'm not going to waste my time reiterating the same thing over and over when you clearly don't understand.

FACT #1...your power bill will rise significantly if your solar array is undersized to your peak consumption

FACT #2...a 1kw system is undersized.


Now I lose interest in the thread and move on...

[glenno1]

thanks poppasmurf
i understand all you have posted and was just making conversation . i am new to all this so dont get upset .
talk to you later mate
glenno1

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by glenno1

thanks poppasmurf
i understand all you have posted and was just making conversation . i am new to all this so dont get upset .
talk to you later mate
glenno1

not upset at you or anyone else mate.....just trying to make it so that you folks and others can understand solar in a simple fashion and not get carried away by falsities

before you or anyone else can make ANY decisions as to how your solar is performing or whether you are using too much power or indeed whether anyone thinks they need solar at all

(1) how much power are you currently using
(2) what size array is needed to cover this usage
(3) where in australia are you
(4) have you a "smart meter" with infeed and outfeed.....if not then get one before you put solar in place

after instalation of meter and array

(1) monitor your daily usage and compare this with the same time last year.....ANY discrepancies should be looked into straight away.....this can usually be done over the computer through your energy retailers site

(2) speak to your energy retailer about gaining a better deal and threaten to go elsewhere unless they at least match their competitors

(3) if your bill has climbed then ring your energy retailer and find out why.......if they have put you on a higher rate then drop them and go elsewhere

the bar fridge will suck a lot of power but if you had that running before then that is not your problem......I strongly suggest you phone your energy retailer and get to the bottom of this

I am with an interstate energy retailer and quite a few of my neighbours are as well, none of them were forced onto a higher rate simply because they went solar......"green energy" is still your choice

I've never heard of it, and it does not occur here if it is phenomenon of interstate then I would switch energy providers

simply monitoring your arrays performance by a daily plotter will tell you how things are progressing and will alert you as to any problems

I read mine at 7.30 every day.....the array is still active for the readout and still producing

I have columns for import (purchased energy)

..........................export (sold energy)

..........................daily production

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by z80

poppasmurf,

Everything I have posted is 100% correct.

Misconstrue it to be as libelous as you like...I'm not going to waste my time reiterating the same thing over and over when you clearly don't understand.

FACT #1...your power bill will rise significantly if your solar array is undersized to your peak consumption

.........incorrect!.....please explain!

FACT #2...a 1kw system is undersized.

no argument there....but depends on your usage


Now I lose interest in the thread and move on...

I have misconstrued nothing, I understand perfectly what you have said and that is why I'm questioning it,......all I have asked is for you to prove your statements!!!!!! which you have consistently failed to do.......

to state that when one buys a solar array one is automatically placed on the green scheme by manner of a collusion between the solar industry and every energy retailer in the land (your statement, not mine) is incorrect and libellous and I have found many that would be willing to take the matter further if they could find out who was spreading this within a public arena..

as I state.....prove it!.......I have spoken to many people who have solar and many energy retailers and many solar outlets and can find nothing of this

fact #1 putting solar on your roof will NOT make your bill rise.........with the correct meter how can it??........once again....please explain....energy retailers cannot implement higher rates unless the consumer is notified.....any rise could then be nullified by simply switching providers

my neighbour has a 1.5 kw system on his shack.....no more power bills....he is in credit to the tune of $28......only had it on for 6 months..he is only at the shack once a month but leaves his fridge running...the solar pays that plus a small excess

I have never argued with fact #2........if one is using 12 kilowatts per day and only producing 6 kw then the shortfall is undeniable......however the 6 kw that is produced will come off his account thus making the purchased amount lower and making that array a useful item to start with particularly given the low purchase cost of the system and the expected 25 year lifespan

my time is short as I am at work......my answers will reflect this and some may come across as being abrupt, however not my intention but time is money!

[Stagg]

Dave, I think this thread really has opened a can of worms,

If there is a sure thing that I get from the opinions from people on this thread about going solar, is that the opinions are far and wide...

Whilst I think that it is all good thinking about going solar, I think that peoples minds are swayed by different motives.


I have read a report a number of times, about the three 'categories' of green consumers, covering a broad range of products, from PV to solar hot water to LED lighting to Hempcrete (That's right, renewable bricks made of hemp, its awesome).

1) SELECTORS

Selectors are probably the largest group of green consumers in the world. These consumers are only green in one aspect of their lives. A selector may be an avid recycler or pay a premium for green energy but sees no contradiction in leading an otherwise consumption orientated life.

2) TRANSLATORS

Translators, are green in some aspects of their lives. They are prepared to make a certain amount of sacrifice in order to do what they perceive is the 'right thing'. But they do not actively seek out the information that they need to work out what the 'right thing' is.

3) EXCEPTORS

Exceptors are the greenest of all. Their personal philosophy about consumption makes sustainability a priority in every aspect of their lives.
Exceptors do a lot of research for every product that they buy. But they are often unsatisfied with their final decisions because they have had to compromise on many of their values to resolve the multitude of competing issues they faced; Their heart wants to go one way, but their head goes another.



The above three reasons is why I believe every one on this thread has a different perspective on solar, because there are different aspects of the industry that will persuade some but not others.

My opinion (and I'll be leaving this thread untouched after this), is that no matter what the motive is for people to buy any sustainable product (PV, hot water, Hempcrete, Fairtrade Bamboo bedsheets, anything sustainable at all), I am glad and praise you for spending the money, because you ARE helping make a change.

Whether your motive is to reduce your power bill, make money from the system, or if your like me and a handful of other people, you would buy it because you know that climate change is happening and you want to do your bit for mother nature, all questions end in the same answer, that renewable energy and sustainability is the answer!

[poppa smurf]

I dont understand the thoughts of some that are just out to bag everything that is different to their way of thinking, global warming, climate change, solar panels, wind turbines

personally I think it is up to the individual whether he/she wishes to go solar or green but the right information must be presented so the individual has the resources to judge for themselves and not be mislead by individuals with too much time on their hands out to cause strife

all info presented by me is either already backed up by my placing reference material on show or by records held by me

what I am constantly chipping away at is the need for folks to DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH! and empower themselves with the knowledge before embarking on this exercise

check what is available in your state.....rules and regulations, it can vary
check your power usage, before and after, know beforehand about changes to the costings
understand what is needed to go into this way of life with eyes wide open
spend a bit of research time!

the true information is out there! ...............in abundance!

[EgoFG]

I am personally in it for the $
I have looked at my peak, average and minumum hourly Consumption, and compared this to the corresponding supply of electricity from a Solar system.
1.9, for me isthe magic number (assuming the hourly averages reflect realtime figures).

Living in a world of Post 60c FIT, means saving 60% on the purchase price.
For a 90% larger system than my brother-in-law, at a price 60% less, I will repay in about the same time.
After repay he will be making more than me for a little while (depending on electricity prices in 2016) then after that I will be making (saving) more.
Hopefully in 6 months panels will be cheaper, and I will add a few more and increase the gain.


The least I can say is .... do the maths !!!!