More power for Australia's fastest car

[Express]

You’d think this subject would be simple.

Firstly how do you intrepid the claim most powerful car.

Some will swear it’s the engine power output and to qualify that you need to put the engines on engine dynos.

Others see it as the power delivered at the wheels.

Either way, just because power at the wheels is higher on one car doesn’t mean the other car’s engine is also less powerful.

Given all the members here who see themselves as car people, you could believe they would understand the simple basics of driveline losses and that a heavy duty driveline tends to absorb more power than a lighter setup.

These cars are so close you could possibly test numerous examples of each model and come up with different figures as fluctuations in outputs from car to car is well known.

Add to the mix there will be a school of thought that dynos are nothing but a guide for tuning purposes and the true indication of power is how they perform in the real world.

Really the only difference between the outputs of these cars is how they perform on the day on the street or on the track and do you want to pay extra for all the fruit or are you happy with something a bit more skinned down.

From a personal note being someone who likes cars in general and never gets hung up on brand alone I’d find it a hard decision.

If Ford wants to be known as the manufacturer of the most powerful Aussie car ever it should badge and market the car accordingly.

Can't blame people thinking it's another brand if you deliberately downplay your own product.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Express

Can't blame people thinking it's another brand if you deliberately downplay your own product.

GT-F 410 just doesn't have the same emotional impact as GT-F 351.
Ford never downplayed this product , they just wanted a final connection with history and they knew it would sell regardless. There's something cool about having the last GT badged as 351. Regardless , the general public wouldn't know WTF it was anyways and wouldn't care. The debate is purely for us here on the forums. ( kinda like the nuclear arms race , you know you have the weapons but don't really need to use them ). The 351 badge on the GTF is misconstrued by many. It's not the power output... So comparing it to the GTS boot badge makes no sense really.

Depending on which discipline you prefer will determine the outcome. As a straight line bruiser , no doubt it depends on semantics like tyres and gear shifting points. Toss a coin. As a wholistic package and track weapon I have no doubt the GTS would slice and dice the GTF.
End of the day , if you have either car , you're a winner of sorts and most people argue the point because they'll never take either car to 10tenths , I reckon they'd be too scared so it's a lot easier to argue the point on the internetz.....

Not having a clear winner is kinda cool and keeps the mystique and the arguments wIll rage for years no doubt. its what these cars do - right ? Create havoc on and off the road.

[Express]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

GT-F 410 just doesn't have the same emotional impact as GT-F 351.
Ford never downplayed this product , they just wanted a final connection with history and they knew it would sell regardless. There's something cool about having the last GT badged as 351.

Tell that to some of the owners selling them quoting the power output as 351kw.

Being a limited edition car without the opportunity of seeing how popular it would have been if it was made available to all comers, I’m guessing it would have still sold the same number of units if it had been badge GT-F 410 or whatever.

Most people were more interested in a new version of a GT-HO not a car badged as a 351.

Maybe Holden could bring out the final SS as a tribute and call it the Commodore SS A9X.

It would have just as much meaning.

[BIONIC MAN]

Ford have downplayed the power output of all the Miami powered cars.. Gt 335? Nah!
Even the GS, how come the 5.4 cars were 315kw, and made about 230kw at the wheels.. And the Miami 315 makes about 280kw!?

[BIONIC MAN]

Double post

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Express

Most people were more interested in a new version of a GT-HO not a car badged as a 351.

We all were , but a company with moths in their wallets and perhaps an insight into what HSV were planning with GTS no doubt made them think long and hard about going down that path. They were stretched to the max even with GTF. A GTHO would have meant a whole new development program without the engineering help from Prodrive. Any chance of a GTHO ran out with the signing of the MOU in 2012 and most probably years before that. We were "lucky" to even get GTF I reckon. Anyways , just my humble opinion on the matter. Sometimes I wish I was a red blood , seems so much easier on the other side.....

[futura]

The irony of the story here is that everyone is referring to the GTF letters rather than the legendary numbers 351.

The only way FPV could of made this connect with the famous 351 number was to link it with the worst possible conditions. There is no doubt that this engine makes close to 400kw even in testing conditions. This was proven by John bowe in his top speed run in the N.T. If the GTF was operating at 351kw in the heat at N.T, 297km/h would not have been possible.

FPV could of named the last GT model as GTF 351 and rated the power at over 410kw. (Depending on what standard used to measure the engine power) just like the new shelby mustang GT350.

Lets all be united, and celebrate what FPV have created in such a short time frame on a limited budget.

[Express]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

We all were , but a company with moths in their wallets and perhaps an insight into what HSV were planning with GTS no doubt made them think long and hard about going down that path. They were stretched to the max even with GTF. A GTHO would have meant a whole new development program without the engineering help from Prodrive. Any chance of a GTHO ran out with the signing of the MOU in 2012 and most probably years before that. We were "lucky" to even get GTF I reckon. Anyways , just my humble opinion on the matter. Sometimes I wish I was a red blood , seems so much easier on the other side.....

I think both cars are a credit to FPV and HSV and honestly it wouldn’t matter to me which is the most powerful unless the power difference was significant.

My choice on which one I’d prefer would be based on other reasons.

I would have snatched a Ford instantly if they had made a GT-F 351 Ute version.

And fair enough I understand a car worthy of the GT-HO moniker was out of reach of the FPV budget but that doesn’t mean the 351 badge was the big selling point for the GT-F.

It sold because it was a limited edition end of model run and personally I would have loved to have seen its sales unrestricted so any one could purchase one if they desired.

Now they are on Carsales with some people asking silly money for them and their advertised power output is 351kw.

Originally Posted by futura

There is no doubt that this engine makes close to 400kw even in testing conditions. This was proven by John bowe in his top speed run in the N.T. If the GTF was operating at 351kw in the heat at N.T, 297km/h would not have been possible.

It depends on how good the initial factory setup is.

I've no doubt the Ford is producing 400 odd kw.

The early model stock C63 with the speed limiter switch off has been proven many times to reach 318km/h with only a factory rated 336kw at the fly.

The later more powerful models couldn't do any better.

As has been said many a time, it takes a lot more than horsepower alone to run a high speed.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Fastest = accomplished in relatively little time

So really you could almost use either fastest or quickest, just sayin...

Sorry that would be "quickest" buddy......
Fastest=well, who can go the fastest...as in speed.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by GTP534

I thought it was 351kW at the flywheel officially, which is what you say the GTS's 430kW must be as it does this in the US.

The US standard must be minus all accessories whereas I'm pretty sure in Australia it's DIN.

So running the 2 cars on the same dyno should be a valid comparison as the 2 engines are rated under different standards.

Everyone forgets that.
IMHO everyone who wants engine power....uses an engine dyno.
Anyone who wants a cars power....uses a chassis dyno. Real car enthusiasts appreciate that badge numbers are a promotional device and can indicate different things on different cars.

I've also never been to a dyno contest too see who had the most power....where we lined up in the car park and viewed badges......or pulled our engines out and forgot about the rest of the car......which is very important in a performance car.
But hats the real world and not the forums.....

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Sorry that would be "quickest" buddy......
Fastest=well, who can go the fastest...as in speed.

Like I said you can use either fastest or quickest, I'm sure majority of people when discussing cars use both when talking acceleration, stop looking for things to whine about...

Meaning of fastest: moving or able to move, operate, function or take effect quickly. Done in comparatively little time; taking a comparatively short time.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Like I said you can use either fastest or quickest, I'm sure majority of people when discussing cars use both when talking acceleration, stop looking for things to whine about...

Meaning of fastest: moving or able to move, operate, function or take effect quickly. Done in comparatively little time; taking a comparatively short time.

It seems you and the Aus media need an English lesson
Here's the dictionary explanation of "fastest" for you.
First the adjective meaning......
1.
moving or capable of moving at high speed.
"a fast and powerful car"
synonyms: speedy, quick, swift, rapid.

Here's the adverb meaning....
1.
at high speed.
"he was driving too fast"
synonyms: quickly, rapidly, swiftly, speedily, briskly, at speed, at full speed, at full tilt;


So I'm sure you can see if the word is used in its correct context......"fastest" simply means moving at a fast speed.....or the fastest speed. NOT how fast you get their. That would come under Quickest!

Here's examples for you.......
HSV has the "quickest" Aussie car.
Ford has the "fastest" Aussie car.
Ford has the "most powerful" car.

Not trying to argue, simply point out that the Aus media fail to give credit to the ford product where it's due.....despite themselves laying out or publishing the results that back certain claims up at times. I've no doubt it's simply a lazy tactic to let the masses hear what they want to hear so they can sell magazines.......I'm just surprised how many sheep fall for their nonsense on a well educated forum such as this.

[1TUFFUTE]

I thought I better add in the dictionaries description of "quickest" as well......because it seems apt, and funny.

Here's the adjective of "quick"-"quickest"
1.
moving fast or doing something in a short time.
"in the qualifying session he was two seconds quicker than his teammate"
synonyms: fast, swift, rapid, speedy, high-speed, expeditious; More
antonyms: slow
2.
prompt to understand, think, or learn; intelligent.
"it was quick of him to spot the mistake"
synonyms: intelligent, bright, clever, gifted, able, brilliant, astute, quick-witted, sharp-witted, ready, quick off the mark; More
antonyms: stupid
(of a person's eye or ear) keenly perceptive; alert.
(of a person's temper) easily roused.



Sooooo here's an Eg.....
In the qualifying session he was 2 second" "quicker" then his team mate
In the qualifying session he was 2 kph "Faster" then his team mate

[40RDT]

Okay this is the last time I'm going to say it because this is dumb **** we are talking about. YOU CAN USE EITHER! Fast is a synonym for quick and quick is a synonym for fast believe it or not....

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fastest

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quick

[40RDT]

Anyway on a more positive note, check out this vid with Chris Harris in the most powerful and fastest / quickest Aussie ute...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwBmywdMqKM

[mcnews]

Yeah generally as I have understood it quickest generally refers to acceleration, and fastest generally refers to top speed. Well in revhead speak anyway that is what the terms refer to

[Polyal]

Good to see that once the Falcon is gone the quality of threads is bound to increase.

[futura]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Good to see that once the Falcon is gone the quality of threads is bound to increase.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Okay this is the last time I'm going to say it because this is dumb **** we are talking about. YOU CAN USE EITHER! Fast is a synonym for quick and quick is a synonym for fast believe it or not....

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fastest

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quick

Lol, waits to read why 1TUFF's definition is more valid than yours...

Gotta give him credit though, he is staunch. Ford should employ him as head of marketing.

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Gotta give him credit though, he is staunch. Ford should employ him as head of marketing.

They replacing Callum?

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Lol, waits to read why 1TUFF's definition is more valid than yours...

Gotta give him credit though, he is staunch. Ford should employ him as head of marketing.

He will probably make another troll poll on which word journos should be using when talking acceleration, "fastest" or "quickest"

[futura]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

He will probably make another troll poll on which word journos should be using when talking acceleration, "fastest" or "quickest"

Well if 1TUFFUTE feels the need to do this to Educate You, then I am all for it.

[futura]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Okay this is the last time I'm going to say it because this is dumb **** we are talking about. YOU CAN USE EITHER! Fast is a synonym for quick and quick is a synonym for fast believe it or not....

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fastest

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quick

If its going to make you sleep better at night, then you can use both.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by futura

If its going to make you sleep better at night, then you can use both.

I will continue to use both. Quick is a synonym for fast and fast is a synonym for quick, meaning the word can used either way.

This is simple stuff here I don't know why you guys are getting so wound up about it. Take a break have a kit kat....

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

I will continue to use both. Quick is a synonym for fast and fast is a synonym for quick, meaning the word can used either way.

This is simple stuff here I don't know why you guys are getting so wound up about it. Take a break have a kit kat....

......is Australia's "fast" car!
.......is Australia's "quick" car!.
Perhaps the words fastEST and quickEST are needed.your using synonyms in the wrong context. Like I said....an English leason. I smell a poll coming on
That's why adverbs and adjectives are needed.because otherwise you'd be talking all stupid an weird.....

[graphicgoose]

This thread is dumb.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

......is Australia's "fast" car!
.......is Australia's "quick" car!.
Perhaps the words fastEST and quickEST are needed.your using synonyms in the wrong context. Like I said....an English leason. I smell a poll coming on
That's why adverbs and adjectives are needed.because otherwise you'd be talking all stupid an weird.....

This article "more power for Australia's fastest car" is talking about acceleration times not top speed yeah? Is there a difference between the fastest elapsed time and the quickest elapsed time?

[arronm]

Originally Posted by graphicgoose

This thread is dumb.

I can think of a few other words to describe it as well. Pointless comes to mind first.

99.9 % of people will think 430 > 351. Therefore 430 must be both quicker and faster. The other .1% will just argue about it

[701let]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

This article "more power for Australia's fastest car" is talking about acceleration times not top speed yeah? Is there a difference between the fastest elapsed time and the quickest elapsed time?

why waste your time, he is as one eyed as it gets.

430Kw > 351kw.

Low 12s are faster than mid-high 12s.

Neither car is slow or underpowered. Both are great in their own right.

That's all really. simple stuff

[futura]

Time to close this thread.