SCT Advisory

[genebaby]

Daniel, they should NEVER stop Xcal1's from being used, that is NOT what people paid good money for them for. Some did it 4 years ago, like me, others 4 days ago!

See my post above. They can stop the "support' at the current vehicle list, but shutting them down is highly wrong.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Charlie@sct

I am truly sorry if you feel that SCT did this to you but look at the big picture.

The only person who needs to look at the big picture is you. The end user need only look at whether the product they purchased in good faith is fit for its intended purpose.

Whatever issues you may have with some dealers, they are your issues. It is unbelievably poor business to be taking it out on your customers.

[jetute]

sct could have just cut the offending dealer off... they can shut down the dongle and close other updates to the offending dealer. its obvious they can do this as the said they will reinstate the rights to non offending dealers only

they had other options

they chose not to use them.

instead they to chose punish thousands of innocent customers.

and thats a bad business decision.

[rodderz]

Can we please have posters posting questions and thoughts instead of resorting to insults. We understand that many aren't happy but posting insults won't achieve any outcome other than a closed thread

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by genebaby

Daniel, they should NEVER stop Xcal1's from being used, that is NOT what people paid good money for them for. Some did it 4 years ago, like me, others 4 days ago!

See my post above. They can stop the "support' at the current vehicle list, but shutting them down is highly wrong.

I am sure that there were people still buying CDMA telephones just prior to April 28 2008 as well.

At least you can get prepared and have a tune box that will have a variety of generics that will work for years to come..... and that is the guaranteed WORST-CASE outcome ahead.

I do not know the inner workings of the Xcal1 "hardware", but without taking this initial action, I cannot see how SCT can move forward with banishing the scumbags.

The way it stands at the moment, SCT, at the very best, have LIMITED knowledge of who has been ripping them off, getting dealers across Australia to fill them in on customer numbers and Xcal1 histories will begin to piece this together for them.

And yes, (un named) may be the primary at fault, but there must be others who are also guilty. I firmly believe that once the badguys have been sorted, things will be looking up.

REMEMBER, 90 days is the MINIMUM timeframe for the Xcal1's to be retunable.... stay upbeat, keep communication with SCT positive and constructive, and one way or another, we'll be ok.

Daniel

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by jetute

sct could have just cut the offending dealer off... they can shut down the dongle and close other updates to the offending dealer.

they had other options

they chose not to use them.

instead they to chose punish thousands of innocent customers.

and thats a bad business decision.

That is yet to be quantified, and as such, there really is no other option in the short term.

Daniel

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by gtp

Somebody asked what the Sniper Flash Tuning Tools could do.

Can Flash more than one vehicle at the same time/ same interface.
Does not require reseting.
Vehicle coverage is Some AU Falcon, BA (only two more pcm's to cover now, BF Falcon and soon FG.
Has all parameters available (there are thousands).
Can Flash one off calibrations or use an interface for multiple calibration storage.
Sniper are offering a trade in on other product at the moment also.
Dealer packages have one years free flashing.

how much is a flash box that holds 4 tunes?
I understand sniper can load in the tune and away you go, I want to retain my own flash box, not leave it at the dealer...

[RogueDriver]

Originally Posted by CAT600

At least you can get prepared and have a tune box that will have a variety of generics that will work for years to come..... and that is the guaranteed WORST-CASE outcome ahead.

This is one idea I don't understand. How can I ask a tuner to fill my flash tuner with tunes for a number of eventualities depending on what I might do with my car down the track? For instance, my car currently has most of the things on my to-do list completed but later on, when I can afford it, I want a new exhaust on it. How can a tuner design me a tune that will work on my specific car on an exhaust system that I haven't yet chosen?
Then there's the fact that the box only holds 3 tunes meaning that I can plan for 3 eventualities if I lose my valet and 95 octane tunes. That doesn't work for me!

Originally Posted by CAT600

I do not know the inner workings of the Xcal1 "hardware", but without taking this initial action, I cannot see how SCT can move forward with banishing the scumbags.

The way it stands at the moment, SCT, at the very best, have LIMITED knowledge of who has been ripping them off, getting dealers across Australia to fill them in on customer numbers and Xcal1 histories will begin to piece this together for them.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure that Charlie@sct has gone so far as to say that they do know who the offending dealer is.
Regardless of their knowledge, they could have asked all of the dealers for the information they required (histories, etc.) and then pursued the offending dealer without ever notifying customers. We didn't need to be brought into this unless there was another motive (i.e. selling more XCal3s).

Originally Posted by CAT600

And yes, (un named) may be the primary at fault, but there must be others who are also guilty. I firmly believe that once the badguys have been sorted, things will be looking up.

REMEMBER, 90 days is the MINIMUM timeframe for the Xcal1's to be retunable.... stay upbeat, keep communication with SCT positive and constructive, and one way or another, we'll be ok.

Daniel

I don't understand how you can assume that things will be looking up once the bad guys are sorted. If we let them get away with it and sat back calmly (as I think you're suggesting, apologies if you're not) waiting for them to move they'd simply carry on with their current course of action (without the extra 90 days) until it all blew over and they were selling their XCal3s.

90 days isn't enough for me to decide on the future modifications for my car or to come up with enough money to perform them and a new tune. If SCT carry on with this course of action then I'm up a creek without a paddle.

In all honesty, I can't imagine a way for SCT to get out of this with their reputation intact amongst a majority of it's customers. But I would like to see them back away slowly, take action against the offending dealer and then let the market decide their fate.

I spent $1000 to buy a tuner from a licenced dealer (as listed on the CAPA website) and I don't see why I should be punished for the actions of another dealer. Even if it was my dealer who caused all this (although I don't believe it was), I had nothing to do with it so I shouldn't be forced to part with another $1000 to upgrade to something I never planned to upgrade to.

Regardless of SCT's actions from here on, I can't see me ever buying another product with their name on it.

Josh

P.S. Does anyone know if CAPA has said anything after their initial email?

[HEMI POWER]

Originally Posted by genebaby

Daniel, they should NEVER stop Xcal1's from being used, that is NOT what people paid good money for them for. Some did it 4 years ago, like me, others 4 days ago!

See my post above. They can stop the "support' at the current vehicle list, but shutting them down is highly wrong.

, I also paid good $$ for mine around 3 years back.At the moment i am doing more work to my Boss and it won't be ready by the 90 days rip-of date.I honestly think this is a big blow to us Ford owners who like to modify our cars. We have always had the problem of tuning our Ford cars and this is just another slap behind the neck for owning a Ford : .I hope SCT and there dealer can work it out legally and leave us the consumer out of it.

[flappist]

Ah now things are becoming a bit more clear.

Am I correct in understanding that the X1s will always be able to tune AU/BA1-2/BF1 via 2.9 but will not be able to tune BF2/FG++?

If this is the case then SCT's plan is not as draconian as it first appeared. The ECU has changed a bit over those models and if the newer gizmos are better for that purpose and the cost of back porting the software cannot be amortized then it would make perfect commercial sense to not do it.

I bought my X1 in 2004 for a BA GT-P. It stated that it would allow me to mod 5 cars before it needed resetting.
It did not say it would work on future models of falcons, holdens or even 350Zs .

If a compromise was reached that X1s work on AU/B series but newer models require newer boxes I suspect that the majority of agreived owners would be satisfied.

Realisticly if you bought a new X1 legitimately then you owned a BA or BF1.
If you bought a "refurbished" unit as new then you have a fair trading case against the vendor not SCT.
If you bought it second hand privately via ebay or whatever then caveat emptor applies.

If SCT decide to do something like this as an act of good faith then I would have no problrm in buying a new SCT product for a future FG /2 or whatever whle keeping my old X1 for use on a used T3/BAGT-P/BAF6 that will probably appear in my toy collection.

Does anyone agree/disagree with this position? (and has logical reasioning to support thier position)

P.S. My first unit had SCT and not CAPA on it. It was recalled and the new sticker added.

[jetute]

cat600... sct know who the offending dealer is... its only one dealer as they told me in an email they (sct) sent me.

flappist, you will not be able to tune with the xcal 1 after the 90 day period..... does not matter what the car is (unless tuner has not updated software and have enough lives left to burn)... as it stands you have 90 days... after that, its a paper weight, that can change tunes on the car that youhave... provided you have more then one tune in your box

[CAT600]

RogueDriver, SCT know who (un named) is, but there are also dealers around the country that have been entering into actions that take them outside of SCT's licence agreement (tuning cars and then sending Xcal1's back for unlock without putting the original tune back in the car). To my knowledge this has been going on for a while.

SCT do not know all of who those dealers are, but I am sure once they have had a couple of months of investigations with dealers around the country (who will have to supply required info in order to exhonerate themselves) the picture will be a lot clearer and I maintain: a lot rosier.

Generic tunes? been around for ages, in fact they were the most common tune in a box at one stage. Yes, having to pre-ordain your hardware changes is an inconvenience, but it is not the end of the world..... you have AT LEAST 3-4 months to get an idea of what you want. Then, you MIGHT have to upgrade to an Xcal3, depending on the outcome with this issue.

I am not suggesting we sit back calmly at all, that is what other people on here have posted as an alternative to what SCT have now done:

Originally Posted by CAT600

Now, when you sit back and look at the way the events have unfolded, with the exception of SCT initially scaring the crap out of everyone by shutting down services effective immediatley (kneejerk reaction) how else are they supposed to sort this out (damage control is a valid form of rapid protection) If they say "oh well, in 18 months time we will stop Xcal1's from being used" that may make many of us happy, but SCT will be unable to efficiently secure and lockdown the offenders, and get the train back on the track

^ is in stark contrast to what others are suggesting, like, leave things the way they were.

That is something that SCT cannot do. They have to quantify and isolate EVERYONE that is ripping them off, and SEVER the ties with those offenders.

Only then is there ANY hope of recovery. At the moment there is none, only LOCKDOWN.

Daniel

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by jetute

flappist, you will not be able to tune with the xcal 1 after the 90 day period..... does not matter what the car is (unless tuner has not update software and have enough lives left to burn)... as it stands you have 90 days... after that, its a paper weight, that can change tunes on the car that youhave... provided you have more then one tune in your box

As has been clearly explained to you a number of times that is simply wrong.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by flappist

Ah now things are becoming a bit more clear.

Am I correct in understanding that the X1s will always be able to tune AU/BA1-2/BF1 via 2.9 but will not be able to tune BF2/FG++?

If this is the case then SCT's plan is not as draconian as it first appeared. The ECU has changed a bit over those models and if the newer gizmos are better for that purpose and the cost of back porting the software cannot be amortized then it would make perfect commercial sense to not do it.

I bought my X1 in 2004 for a BA GT-P. It stated that it would allow me to mod 5 cars before it needed resetting.
It did not say it would work on future models of falcons, holdens or even 350Zs .

If a compromise was reached that X1s work on AU/B series but newer models require newer boxes I suspect that the majority of agreived owners would be satisfied.

Realisticly if you bought a new X1 legitimately then you owned a BA or BF1.
If you bought a "refurbished" unit as new then you have a fair trading case against the vendor not SCT.
If you bought it second hand privately via ebay or whatever then caveat emptor applies.

If SCT decide to do something like this as an act of good faith then I would have no problrm in buying a new SCT product for a future FG /2 or whatever whle keeping my old X1 for use on a used T3/BAGT-P/BAF6 that will probably appear in my toy collection.

Does anyone agree/disagree with this position? (and has logical reasioning to support thier position)

P.S. My first unit had SCT and not CAPA on it. It was recalled and the new sticker added.

As long as the SCT authorised tuner of MY choice (and I have the same level of choice that X2/X3 owners have) has the ability to tune X1 units, no problem. Although at this stage, there will always be a bitter taste in my mouth regarding SCT as a result of this. Of course with time and reasonable action this bad taste will fade.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by flappist

Am I correct in understanding that the X1s will always be able to tune AU/BA1-2/BF1 via 2.9 but will not be able to tune BF2/FG++?

If SCT decide to do something like this as an act of good faith then I would have no problrm in buying a new SCT product for a future FG /2 or whatever whle keeping my old X1 for use on a used T3/BAGT-P/BAF6 that will probably appear in my toy collection.

Does anyone agree/disagree with this position? (and has logical reasioning to support thier position)

P.S. My first unit had SCT and not CAPA on it. It was recalled and the new sticker added.

Flappist, this only applies IF the dealer kept V2.9 software. The number of dealers with this is unknown at the moment.... it could be anywhere from 1 to 20+ across Australia.

Daniel

[jetute]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

As has been clearly explained to you a number of times that is simply wrong.

show me how its wrong... where has sct said that tuning will continue beyond the burning lives that some dealers have left after the 90 days??

please point this out to me. I asked you to do that b4 but you did not reply.

edit, most will have an auto update as said b4

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by jetute

show me how its wrong... where has sct said that tuning will continue??

please point this out to me. I asked you to do that b4 but you did not reply.

V2.9 software for starters..

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by jetute

show me how its wrong... where has sct said that tuning will continue beyond the burning lives that some dealers have left after the 90 days??

please point this out to me. I asked you to do that b4 but you did not reply.

Honestly mate, if you are not going to read the thread, you should DEFINATLEY NOT be posting in it.

Daniel

[jetute]

and there lies your problem.... how many will have this?

[jetute]

have you been in email contact to sct??

[Justin@]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

As has been clearly explained to you a number of times that is simply wrong.

no 4vman it is you that is wrong. After the 90 days the only way to get these to work AS INTENDED is to find a tuner that has the old software and is willing to do it.
Other than that it is a paperweight.

[nfury8]

Charlie Charlie, Charlie,
I strongly suggest you think long and hard before abandoning a product that still being sold to car ENTHUSIASTS.
Imagine buying a $1200 computer then soon after the purchase the manufacturer says
"If you want more memory or a new screen just buy another computer from us that is exactly the same cause we are enjoying our customers buying our entire product again and again"
You would be a fool to believe that you will retain all, if ANY customers after this treatment. Expect a class action from every user with a redundant unserviceable product. You will be forced to pay a full refund ........ believe me, i know.
The least you can offer, the very least is a free upgrade to you new product.
1 unhappy customer results in many many more lost future customers.
Chasing a few extra dollars may cost you your entire customer base.

[rodderz]

Originally Posted by CAT600

Honestly mate, if you are not going to read the thread, you should DEFINATLEY NOT be posting in it.

Daniel

yes, the thread is going around in circles at the moment of the same thing.

It's the weekend and a fair amount of info has come out, tomorrow the start of a new week hopefully some sort of agreement gets reached and the relevant parties can post here to put the info foreward as to what is 100% happening

[jetute]

Originally Posted by Charlie@sct

And if your box was used multiple times you'll pay me $1000 per vehicle in the history? I think my odds are pretty good

Like i had stated these boxes have been around since 2005 without any other contact to SCT. The X1 boxes retain history of how many times they were used and unlocked. I hope no one in this forum thinks we didn't do homework prior to ****ing off a good bunch of guys.

The devices will not be able to be tuned after the 90 day period so get it all out. We will still support you in anyway we can.

Charlie@sct

cat600 and 4Vman

do I believe charlie or you guys???? now let me see

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by jetute

show me how its wrong... where has sct said that tuning will continue beyond the burning lives that some dealers have left after the 90 days??

please point this out to me. I asked you to do that b4 but you did not reply.

edit, most will have an auto update as said b4

Yes please do, it would alleviate a great deal of my stress if I was to get concrete reassurance that next year I can get my tuning done on my X1 unit.

At this stage I have not seen this reassurance but I may have missed it.

[data_mine]

For a box which is not much more than a USB memory stick - think about it all it does is hold 4 'files', and have enough smarts to erase and reprogram your ECU. All the smarts of the SCT system is in the Advantage software and your tuners brain. SCT has taken away the smarts of our investment/purchase.

Upgrading (I use the term loosely) to a XCAL2 or 3, will still get you a box that holds 4 files, and can flash your ECU.

Now if I want a USB stick to hold 4 'files' of a few MB each, I expect to pay <$50 (I'm being very generous there). So unless I get a refund to the order of the difference of what I paid for my XCAL1, to what value it actually has, SCT better keep the 'smarts' of the system available to me.

Spoolman re: sniper. Two options I can see, you go get tuned at a shop with sniper, you get 1 tune, and have to go back to get it changed (ala what GM owners have been doing since day dot.). Secondly, you buy the ~$1100 kit (roughly what a new XCAL will cost), you get the sniper hardware (that holds 6 tunes), tuning software, you could then either tune it yourself, or take it to a tuning shop, and get them to make and load up 6 tunes, which you then have on your hardware to change at will.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by XR8.001

no 4vman it is that is wrong. After the 90 days the only way to get these to work AS INTENDED is to find a tuner that has the old software and is willing to do it.
Other than that it is a paperweight.

Then it's not a paperweight at all, is it!

So....... you still have 90+ days left to get ANYONE to tune, you can still get SOMEONE to tune 90+% of cars after that, you can still get different tunes selected on the box, and you can still get the factory program put back into the car at service time.

And this is the WORST CASE scenario?

Jeez, after 11 pages I thought the world was coming to an end!

Daniel

[snappy]

These are the facts so far
Xcal1
Only be able to update tunes for a period of 90 days (unless you can find a tuner with a older version of the software V2.9 is needed) And can not be reset it paired with the orignal car only
Xcal2
Is not being discontinued and will work as makers discription and will tune (au-bf)
Xcal3
herrods i belive will do $100 discount when trading the xcal1
I newest is aus and will tune (ba-fg)

Other available products
sniper
vcm
others ?

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by jetute

cat600 and NVman

do I believe charlie or you guys???? now let me see

Charlie has no control over dealers with a still-active copy of V2.9 Advantage.

His comment is made in direct relation to the dealers that updated to V3+

Either way, unlocking of Xcal1's to create a revenue stream has been shut down indefinatley, and that is precisely what SCT set out to do.

Daniel

[tex]

Please confirm exactly how me, as the owner of March 08 build BF GT stands getting further tuning work carried out later this year uploading via my 1295 dollar V1 box of sparks.

I have read earlier in this thread, later versions of the software (v2 & to be released v3) won't talk to my ECM. Is this correct?