FG FPV GT Rspec vs VF HSV GTS by MOTOR Mag

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

85% of all statistics are fabricated....

40% of all people know that

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Must be in the 10% :( But when you have 328rwk with a warranty ...... for a daily, why mod

Exactly !! but be careful, displaying profound logic like that around here may mean you need to ban yourself

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

Its been around for 6 months now and production cars are getting onto dynos and proving the 430KW is massively over rated, http://www.hsvforum.com.au/showthrea...and-After-Dyno

But its got big torque so the way it makes its power compared to a GT is what keeps things interesting. Kinda like an F6 vs GT, the F6 makes big torque early. Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races.

That's a long stroke motor for you, lots of torque.
I guess when you put in place a heavy duty gearbox, driveline and massive diff that's going to be durable in handling that sort of power its only natural that results in more driveline transmission losses.

[2242100]

ford man xf quote
It's pretty amusing though, considering the XR8 next year will be reborn with the same spec engine as the FG GT, could you imagine being a HSV owner forking out all that money on a brand new GTS, then pulling up at the lights next to a FH XR8 and then sitting side by side next to a FH XR8 all the way to 100 and beyond.

It think it could be even a bit more more amusing if the HSV owner was to take on a totally standard and untuned FG XR6 Turbo Auto like mine.
Below is a 0 to 110 kmh run that my car managed and the data was recorded using the same very accurate GPS based model of Racelogic Performance Box that Motor Magazine have been using, and I am also listing their Supercharged HSV test data beside my cars numbers.(February issue.) My cars times are on the left.

MY CAR Motor Supercharged HSV times
0-10 kmh 0.28 sec 0.34 sec
0-20 kmh 0.64 sec 0.79 sec
0-30 kmh 1.03 sec 1.22 sec
0-40 kmh 1.41 sec 1.64 sec
0-50 kmh 1.81 sec 2.06 sec
0-60 kmh 2.24 sec 2.53 sec
0-70 kmh 2.77 sec 3.02 sec
0-80 kmh 3.38 sec 3.52 sec
0-90 kmh 3.96 sec 4.04 sec
0-100kmh 4.56 sec 4.69 sec
0-110kmh 5.30 sec 5.42 sec
To be fair to the Hsv, I should mention that my car had a very good launch with no wheelspin as it was on a high grip surface, but even if you compare the 70 kmh to 110 kmh speeds where wheelspin shouldn't have been a problem my car took 2.53 seconds to go from 70 to 110 kmh vs the HSV's 2.40 seconds. Also my cars test was at around a 650 metre altitude and I believe the HSV would have been tested at a much lower altitude. I understand it's test was at Heathcote Dragstrip which is about 460 metres lower. Also my car had slightly over a full tank fuel load and 90 kg driver. Temperature was fairly low at 14 degrees c but the air was fairly humid. At close to sea level in 18 degree air it managed the 70 to 110 kmh split in 2.38 seconds vs the Supercharged HSV's 2.40 seconds with 3/4 tank and 90 kg driver. There is no word in the Motor article about the weather conditions on the test, but there was no comment about heat and all the other cars on the test had excellent rolling acceleration beyond first gear. So it seems that the air conditions were good.
Of course the standard FG Turbo's (just like the Supercharged GT's) perform way above their class largely because of their temporary overboost function whereas the HSV could keep up the pace for a lot longer at a race track where it would clearly be a better car, but I think the GT Falcons, F6's and standard FG Turbos are way ahead in power Bang for Bucks.

[strik9]

well guys, i just bought a gts today. 88k drive away (12ookm on the clock). so guess ill see. spoke with spiro at atoutech . he seems to think they are ok. still keeping my f6 cause nothing does it like a turbo does in my eyes.
wanted a gtr but always getting up off the road out of my seat and squashing my **** in a fitted seat didnt really appeal to me.

i,m not trying to break any records anyway just enjoy life and nice cars

[sixman]

Hey, you know Spiro bought one as well...

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by strik9

well guys, i just bought a gts today. 88k drive away (12ookm on the clock). so guess ill see. spoke with spiro at atoutech . he seems to think they are ok. still keeping my f6 cause nothing does it like a turbo does in my eyes.
wanted a gtr but always getting up off the road out of my seat and squashing my **** in a fitted seat didnt really appeal to me.

i,m not trying to break any records anyway just enjoy life and nice cars

Lucky you what colour did you go with? Auto or manual?

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by strik9

well guys, i just bought a gts today. 88k drive away (12ookm on the clock). so guess ill see. spoke with spiro at atoutech . he seems to think they are ok. still keeping my f6 cause nothing does it like a turbo does in my eyes.
wanted a gtr but always getting up off the road out of my seat and squashing my **** in a fitted seat didnt really appeal to me.

i,m not trying to break any records anyway just enjoy life and nice cars

Someone should hook you up with a vbox or the equivalent so we can get some i house numbers

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by 2242100

ford man xf quote
It's pretty amusing though, considering the XR8 next year will be reborn with the same spec engine as the FG GT, could you imagine being a HSV owner forking out all that money on a brand new GTS, then pulling up at the lights next to a FH XR8 and then sitting side by side next to a FH XR8 all the way to 100 and beyond.

It think it could be even a bit more more amusing if the HSV owner was to take on a totally standard and untuned FG XR6 Turbo Auto like mine.
Below is a 0 to 110 kmh run that my car managed and the data was recorded using the same very accurate GPS based model of Racelogic Performance Box that Motor Magazine have been using, and I am also listing their Supercharged HSV test data beside my cars numbers.(February issue.) My cars times are on the left.

MY CAR Motor Supercharged HSV times
0-10 kmh 0.28 sec 0.34 sec
0-20 kmh 0.64 sec 0.79 sec
0-30 kmh 1.03 sec 1.22 sec
0-40 kmh 1.41 sec 1.64 sec
0-50 kmh 1.81 sec 2.06 sec
0-60 kmh 2.24 sec 2.53 sec
0-70 kmh 2.77 sec 3.02 sec
0-80 kmh 3.38 sec 3.52 sec
0-90 kmh 3.96 sec 4.04 sec
0-100kmh 4.56 sec 4.69 sec
0-110kmh 5.30 sec 5.42 sec
To be fair to the Hsv, I should mention that my car had a very good launch with no wheelspin as it was on a high grip surface, but even if you compare the 70 kmh to 110 kmh speeds where wheelspin shouldn't have been a problem my car took 2.53 seconds to go from 70 to 110 kmh vs the HSV's 2.40 seconds. Also my cars test was at around a 650 metre altitude and I believe the HSV would have been tested at a much lower altitude. I understand it's test was at Heathcote Dragstrip which is about 460 metres lower. Also my car had slightly over a full tank fuel load and 90 kg driver. Temperature was fairly low at 14 degrees c but the air was fairly humid. At close to sea level in 18 degree air it managed the 70 to 110 kmh split in 2.38 seconds vs the Supercharged HSV's 2.40 seconds with 3/4 tank and 90 kg driver. There is no word in the Motor article about the weather conditions on the test, but there was no comment about heat and all the other cars on the test had excellent rolling acceleration beyond first gear. So it seems that the air conditions were good.
Of course the standard FG Turbo's (just like the Supercharged GT's) perform way above their class largely because of their temporary overboost function whereas the HSV could keep up the pace for a lot longer at a race track where it would clearly be a better car, but I think the GT Falcons, F6's and standard FG Turbos are way ahead in power Bang for Bucks.

Very good times for your stock xr6t, 4.5 sec 0-100 is quicker than motor mag got out of the R Spec. The GTS times seem a bit off though

[strik9]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Lucky you what colour did you go with? Auto or manual?

white, manual

[strik9]

Originally Posted by sixman

Hey, you know Spiro bought one as well...

no i rang him on his mobile as busy as he his he finds the time, and thats when i found out he had one. we were both looking at a c63 . i had my heart set on the new 507. but it just wasnt me, too much of a bogon i guess. so i thought what better man to ask than spiro.
he reallly is a quality guy, and said you,ll love it it . good enough for me.
i have had a new gts e2 when they came out, loved the seats the handling the brakes left the brembos for dead. just lacked grunt.

so fingers crossed that the sc gts will solve that.

[strik9]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Someone should hook you up with a vbox or the equivalent so we can get some i house numbers

could prob get some better numbers than some jurno,s pml
the gts will be going to autotech pretty soon. stock is ok but tuned is fun got the best of both worlds, talk too holden freak he,s happy. talk to a man with real taste ford fan, got that covered. lol

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by strik9

white, manual

Nice any plans on mods or leaving it pretty stock?

[2242100]

Originally Posted by strik9

no i rang him on his mobile as busy as he his he finds the time, and thats when i found out he had one. we were both looking at a c63 . i had my heart set on the new 507. but it just wasnt me, too much of a bogon i guess. so i thought what better man to ask than spiro.
he reallly is a quality guy, and said you,ll love it it . good enough for me.
i have had a new gts e2 when they came out, loved the seats the handling the brakes left the brembos for dead. just lacked grunt.

so fingers crossed that the sc gts will solve that.

You're right about Spiro, he tries very hard to answer peoples queries.
Has he tuned his car yet and if so what sort of results did he get?

[duaned]

What about warranty implications? I assume a tune etc. will cease any drivetrain warranty on the GTS?

[strik9]

you would assume correct, some places like walkinshaw offer a driveline warranty ect. normal story if you play you pay.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by strik9

well guys, i just bought a gts today. 88k drive away (12ookm on the clock). so guess ill see. spoke with spiro at atoutech . he seems to think they are ok. still keeping my f6 cause nothing does it like a turbo does in my eyes.
wanted a gtr but always getting up off the road out of my seat and squashing my **** in a fitted seat didnt really appeal to me.

i,m not trying to break any records anyway just enjoy life and nice cars

Can you help me out a bit mate ?
I like to properly crunch the numbers on yuor deal to see what that would mean as a landed price on the road in N.Z.

I have the Kiwi / Aussie exchnage rate, your GST rate for extraction - (Kiwi's are able to zero rate your GST for export), our GST rate, shipping costs, customs and handling costs our end and on road costs our end.

I'm missing some info though.
How much stamp duty did you pay included in that deal ? (Not sure if I can exempt the deal for stamp duty for export or not, should be able too ?
How much luxury car tax is included in your sale price ? I should be able to exempt that on an export sales deal.

Its looking like there's somewhere around $25,000 - $30,000 Kiwi difference between a parallel imported GTS and the retail price of one here through a HSV dealer.

Against that I hear they're only talking about 7,000 - $8,000 off retail here after negotiation so a nett difference of about $20,000 parallel imported demo vs new price.

[Motorbreath310]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Can you help me out a bit mate ?
I like to properly crunch the numbers on yuor deal to see what that would mean as a landed price on the road in N.Z.

I have the Kiwi / Aussie exchnage rate, your GST rate for extraction - (Kiwi's are able to zero rate your GST for export), our GST rate, shipping costs, customs and handling costs our end and on road costs our end.

I'm missing some info though.
How much stamp duty did you pay included in that deal ? (Not sure if I can exempt the deal for stamp duty for export or not, should be able too ?
How much luxury car tax is included in your sale price ? I should be able to exempt that on an export sales

ask these guys; http://tauruslogistics.com.au/

Stamp duty is normally only paid during transfer of registration, so hopefully they don't charge you for deregistration to export.

[Rodge]

^^ Thanks heaps for that. I had pencilled in using Mainfreight if I do something with a Senator or GTS in due course ex Aust but the crowd you've kindly provided a link for look like they know their stuff and import from the U.K. too

[strik9]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Can you help me out a bit mate ?
I like to properly crunch the numbers on yuor deal to see what that would mean as a landed price on the road in N.Z.

I have the Kiwi / Aussie exchnage rate, your GST rate for extraction - (Kiwi's are able to zero rate your GST for export), our GST rate, shipping costs, customs and handling costs our end and on road costs our end.

I'm missing some info though.
How much stamp duty did you pay included in that deal ? (Not sure if I can exempt the deal for stamp duty for export or not, should be able too ?
How much luxury car tax is included in your sale price ? I should be able to exempt that on an export sales deal.

Its looking like there's somewhere around $25,000 - $30,000 Kiwi difference between a parallel imported GTS and the retail price of one here through a HSV dealer.

Against that I hear they're only talking about 7,000 - $8,000 off retail here after negotiation so a nett difference of about $20,000 parallel imported demo vs new price.

3300 in stamp
no lux car tax
7700 in gst
car was second hand 1200km

[Rodge]

Thanks. Just wondering if you'd be so kind as to give us some feedback on how much you're enjoying it.

I'm especially interested in:-
If my memory serves me correctly ?, didn't you own a SC GT at one stage ? How much more torque this GTS makes than your SC GT ?
Is the bottom end and mid range on the LSA power delivery really strong ?
How much difference there is between the adjustable suspension modes, is touring mode quite comfortable ?
How good is the torque vectoring and how great are those massive brakes ?

[strik9]

gets dropped off tom rodge,
i havent even seen one in the flesh only the ss models. bit of excitement building i tell you.

yep had a sc gt with zf spire had tuned it 380rwkw . to be honest it didnt really impress me. and i went back to the old faithful f6. i guess thats why im keeping the f6 . i just find myself wanting one all over again. that and the fact id have to change it to stock and get rorted on trade in. its worth more to me to have it for thrills and spills.

one thing i can say is the brakes will be out of this world. i had an e2 gts with the yellow brakes and they were amazing.and the seats are nice. never find the fpv seats much chop unless they are gtp.

ill give you all that you want to know in about a week. going to bucket down all week up here , so a true test will be out. but the better responce will be in a month when you glow wears off of it.

cheers mate

[KW XRT]

Sorry for not reading every post.Like to say was the GT-R spec put up against it's red rival of the day.Also don't underestimate the difference tyres and set up would make I would expect times for the "R" to come up considerably.Not saying the cars would be on an equal footing just stating fact the world has rolled on.Like comparing the old group c cars to the group NC cars.Bathurst 20 seconds a lap.

[1TUFFUTE]

I would SERIOUSLY love to see you take advantage of having both models at the same time....and take some measurements of seat,sill,dash,floor,wheel and any other measurements you can get too finally put to bed the 'as far as I'm concerned' myth that the falcon seats are too high.

I've tried getting these before buy nobody came to the party

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by strik9

gets dropped off tom rodge,
i havent even seen one in the flesh only the ss models. bit of excitement building i tell you.

yep had a sc gt with zf spire had tuned it 380rwkw . to be honest it didnt really impress me. and i went back to the old faithful f6. i guess thats why im keeping the f6 . i just find myself wanting one all over again. that and the fact id have to change it to stock and get rorted on trade in. its worth more to me to have it for thrills and spills.

one thing i can say is the brakes will be out of this world. i had an e2 gts with the yellow brakes and they were amazing.and the seats are nice. never find the fpv seats much chop unless they are gtp.

ill give you all that you want to know in about a week. going to bucket down all week up here , so a true test will be out. but the better responce will be in a month when you glow wears off of it.

cheers mate

Well, today's the day, enjoy it mate.
With you experience with different FPV model's i'm looking forward to hearing your feedback on the GTS when you've had a chance to suss it out.
Don't forget , plenty of pics at home next to your F6 or it didn't happen

[strik9]

hahaha oh it happened alright. took it for quick belt down the road had 60mm today. first impression was,nt disappointment . i,ve always had top of the line tyres on all my cars. but the continentals are unbelievable in the wet.

anyway love the heads up display very nice. feel its a little too techy i,m getting beeps for things i don,t know what there for, but considering the salesman just dropped it of and took off. had a 3hour drive back. and he,d been there a week . pretty sure i knew more than him at this stage.

lets just say its not slow either, i,m act afraid to put it next to my f6 its going to make it look so dated. but for you rodge i will. but you,ll have to pm me your mobile number and send you the pics and get you to put them up. i,m really sad with computers mate. the f6 is or was hot ****. but i,m not too sure now.

first impressions are i,m glad i got rid of the wife. lol its a friggen fantastic package and great value for money i think. considering an e2gts hsv fours years ago was the same price. hsv has done very well

and you better hurry pm me your number its getting dark hahaha or you can let me drink my beers and i,ll do it first thing tom .( or if you think i may have trouble sending pics to mexico south may need a volunteer to send there number)

and the brakes, well i guess your no there no disappointment . this car feels great to drive too . rather light in nimmble compared to the f6 for the much the same size car if not bigger. not nose heavy like the sc gt

this is,nt my review either. would like to let the i got a new car thing wear off. the real review is when i can drive it for a week. at this stage its a great car. would,nt like to say it leaves a tuned sc gt for dead. but it seems too, i,m talking the whole package really the fg is too dated imo now by the looks

[strik9]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

I would SERIOUSLY love to see you take advantage of having both models at the same time....and take some measurements of seat,sill,dash,floor,wheel and any other measurements you can get too finally put to bed the 'as far as I'm concerned' myth that the falcon seats are too high.

I've tried getting these before buy nobody came to the party

sorry mate this may have to stay one of lifes mysteries . i,m ocd but i,m not that bad.haha

[Motorbreath310]

76 GTS's on Carsales at the moment!!

Imagine when these things come down even further in price? Weapons-grade super saloons everywhere!

[GTP534]

I saw a red GTS last night at Glenmore park. Seemed like a "soccer mum" driving it as this was in area where people park for the soccer practice fields.

Looked great I thought, the red with the black wheels and yellow calipers.

I had the windows of the Territory up so didn't really get a good idea of the exhaust.

[Bent8]

Seen a few of these HSV’s and those brakes are massive!

Couldn’t really hear the exhaust over the music my BOSS was making but they do have good road presence.

Apparently they have some rather strange engineering in them.. the gearbox and diff share the same oil and the left drive shaft is thinner than the right one. (probably something to do with the torque vectoring?)