All things Solar (merged threads)

[poppa smurf]

well nuclear is getting bandied about here now, looks like solar thermal won't make the draw.

another one for big business and a kick in the jewels for the little struggler.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Westpac? (ie Bank of NSW?)

Spot on! Well done. Hope you didn't cheat

Had completely forgotten that I had posed that question

Craig H

[xisled]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

Hey daven,

I can proudly tell you that AGL is a wholly Australian owned and operated company, and has been that way since its inception over 175 years ago.

A fact that most people are probably not aware of, but AGL is the second oldest continuous company listed on the Australian stock exchange! Anyone care to guess as to what is the oldest? (no cheating!)

Craig H

The sad thing about that is that due to AGL being on the ASX the majority of shareholders will be overseas investors. Can’t claim it to be Australian owned when it probably isn’t.

Also AGL back office team is all ran out of India. You may speak to a call centre operator here in Australia, but most of the work is carried out in India.

[JAJH]

I have a question:
My wife and I recently moved into a rented house which has 8 x 200 watt panels on the roof, so it's a 1.6kw system. We used to be with Origin but since moving have switched to AGL. I recently received my first power bill for $470 for 72 days. This comes out at just over 20.38kwh per day or $6.54 per day. According to the actual meter readings on the bill I had used 1467kw and generated 59kw of solar power. So, in terms of solar rebate I only received $4.32. This is the 1 st time I have had solar but having spoken to others who have it and my own research, I felt the solar generated and rebate were ridiculously low.
After speaking to AGL, they suggested the inverter may be faulty, so I spoke to the Agents who organised a sparky to come out and check the inverter, which they did and told me it was working fine. I again spoke to AGL's technical support who now inform me my bill is calculated as a nett figure. I am still having trouble understanding how they work it out, but from what I can gather by their explanation power generated by solar is deducted from my total usage and the excess is rebated back to me. Now, whilst this sounds fair and reasonable what I don't understand is how I have a rebate if I am using over 20kw per day and the solar is only generating up to a maximum of 9kw per day. Can any of you solar experts out there please explain it so it makes sense? I would have thought the simple way to bill me would be to note the total amount of power used then subtract the total amount of power generated and deduct the difference. Below is the readings from my bill. Household is 2 adults, both working, no kids and a pool.

Meter...... Read.....Read.....Rate..........Start...... End......kWh
no........... date......type.....description..read...... read
1328209.....Feb 15..Actual...Peak..........34,618....36,085..1,467
1328209.....Feb 15..Actual...Solar..........2,323.....2,382...59

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by JAJH

I have a question:
Now, whilst this sounds fair and reasonable what I don't understand is how I have a rebate if I am using over 20kw per day and the solar is only generating up to a maximum of 9kw per day.
Meter...... Read.....Read.....Rate..........Start...... End......kWh
no........... date......type.....description..read...... read
1328209.....Feb 15..Actual...Peak..........34,618....36,085..1,467
1328209.....Feb 15..Actual...Solar..........2,323.....2,382...59

It will be during the day when you haven't been using all the solar being produced at the moment is was produced. So 59kWh was additional to your daytime load.

[JAJH]

Originally Posted by Cashie

It will be during the day when you haven't been using all the solar being produced at the moment is was produced. So 59kWh was additional to your daytime load.

Thanks for quick reply. One other question...I understand that a pool is fairly hungry where power usage is concerned but is 20kw per day excessive for 2 middle aged people, both working with no kids?

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by JAJH

Thanks for quick reply. One other question...I understand that a pool is fairly hungry where power usage is concerned but is 20kw per day excessive for 2 middle aged people, both working with no kids?

.....we use between 10 and 15 kw's per day, no pool, 3 of us.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by JAJH

I have a question:
My wife and I recently moved into a rented house which has 8 x 200 watt panels on the roof, so it's a 1.6kw system. We used to be with Origin but since moving have switched to AGL. I recently received my first power bill for $470 for 72 days. This comes out at just over 20.38kwh per day or $6.54 per day. According to the actual meter readings on the bill I had used 1467kw and generated 59kw of solar power. So, in terms of solar rebate I only received $4.32. This is the 1 st time I have had solar but having spoken to others who have it and my own research, I felt the solar generated and rebate were ridiculously low.
After speaking to AGL, they suggested the inverter may be faulty, so I spoke to the Agents who organised a sparky to come out and check the inverter, which they did and told me it was working fine. I again spoke to AGL's technical support who now inform me my bill is calculated as a nett figure. I am still having trouble understanding how they work it out, but from what I can gather by their explanation power generated by solar is deducted from my total usage and the excess is rebated back to me. Now, whilst this sounds fair and reasonable what I don't understand is how I have a rebate if I am using over 20kw per day and the solar is only generating up to a maximum of 9kw per day. Can any of you solar experts out there please explain it so it makes sense? I would have thought the simple way to bill me would be to note the total amount of power used then subtract the total amount of power generated and deduct the difference. Below is the readings from my bill. Household is 2 adults, both working, no kids and a pool.

Meter...... Read.....Read.....Rate..........Start...... End......kWh
no........... date......type.....description..read...... read
1328209.....Feb 15..Actual...Peak..........34,618....36,085..1,467
1328209.....Feb 15..Actual...Solar..........2,323.....2,382...59

Basically how your house would be working with NET metering is that your solar panels produce the power, then the solar goes into your home and your appliances will use the power first, then the excess will be put back into the grid and this will be used to calculate your buy back.

If your using aplliances during the day that require a lot electricty, this would explain why your buy back is low.

[deesun]

Originally Posted by JAJH

Thanks for quick reply. One other question...I understand that a pool is fairly hungry where power usage is concerned but is 20kw per day excessive for 2 middle aged people, both working with no kids?

Is your pool on Tariff 3? Apparently cheapest rate and how long do you run the filter?

[zilo]

Well I am breaking the solar install cycle.

did the maths and at 6 cents feed in tarriff I am better off pulling the panels off the roof and selling them and the inverter on eBay.

the $9k will have a better payback on a mortgage.

So today 5kw came off the shed...

eBay here we come, 27x 190 panels and a SMA5000TL inverter.


Now to find an electricity retailer that doesn't have a grid feed in plan...

[xisled]

Originally Posted by zilo

Well I am breaking the solar install cycle.

did the maths and at 6 cents feed in tarriff I am better off pulling the panels off the roof and selling them and the inverter on eBay.

the $9k will have a better payback on a mortgage.

So today 5kw came off the shed...

eBay here we come, 27x 190 panels and a SMA5000TL inverter.


Now to find an electricity retailer that doesn't have a grid feed in plan...

Its not as simple as pulling the panels off the roof and signing up to a retailer that does not have a solar buy back because you will still have a solar tariff.

What this means any retailer you sign up with will be notified that you have solar, even if you do not have the panels on your roof. You may not be able to go on a non solar plan.

All retailers use a system called MSATS. This is the industry database that has all the information about your home and what tariffs you are on.

You will need to contact your current retailer and get them to arrange a tariff change to remove the solar tariff from MSATS.

Also you may get a defect notice from your distributor if you have removed the panels and inverter. They may require you to get an electrician out to your property to complete a CES, but I'm not 100% on this.

[poppa smurf]

xisled is 100% correct, a defect will be issued and a safety certificate will need to be supplied after inspection.

you may have to have your S.E.G. disqualified as well........no idea how to go about this.

we solar owners are about to come under heavy fire according to the retailers and pollies in south aust.......cant wait for better, cheaper battery technology.

5kw of solar has been advertised recently around here for $5,000.00....dont think you'll get anywhere near $9,000 off ebay.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

xisled is 100% correct, a defect will be issued and a safety certificate will need to be supplied after inspection.

you may have to have your S.E.G. disqualified as well........no idea how to go about this.

we solar owners are about to come under heavy fire according to the retailers and pollies in south aust.......cant wait for better, cheaper battery technology.

5kw of solar has been advertised recently around here for $5,000.00....dont think you'll get anywhere near $9,000 off ebay.

5kw with an SMA5000TL for $5k?

I don't think so.

I already rang them and told them to shove it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

we solar owners are about to come under heavy fire according to the retailers and pollies in south aust.......cant wait for better, cheaper battery technology.

The only problem about going off grid is that to keep your batteries alive for a good amount of time you can only really run them down to 50% depth of discharge for maximum life, assuming you run with the tried and true sealed lead acid style batteries, so think what you need than double it to get good life out of them.

Its probably cheaper to have a smaller battery system just to take over night loads and then a massive solar setup for during the day, as panels/inverters would be cheaper than battery bank.

Lithium Polymer batteries can withstand higher charging rates, and more discharges, but $$$!

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by zilo

5kw with an SMA5000TL for $5k?

I don't think so.

I already rang them and told them to shove it.

yeah! I know about the difference in quality but when people are looking on ebay price is king.

another lot on the idiot box had an everyday price of $5,990 for 5 kilowatt

Damo, we have been getting 9 years out of our AGM's for solar around here with a greater discharge rate than 50%.

better batteries are in the pipeline with greater holding capacity and smaller size, not that far away.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

The only problem about going off grid is that to keep your batteries alive for a good amount of time you can only really run them down to 50% depth of discharge for maximum life, assuming you run with the tried and true sealed lead acid style batteries, so think what you need than double it to get good life out of them.

Its probably cheaper to have a smaller battery system just to take over night loads and then a massive solar setup for during the day, as panels/inverters would be cheaper than battery bank.

Lithium Polymer batteries can withstand higher charging rates, and more discharges, but $$$!

50% DOD for maximum life?...try 10% for maximum life.

On my little shack I now have 32 x 200AH batteries (for about 6kwh when the sun goes down) (1600ah at 48v configured as 8 strings of 4)

At 10% DOD I expect them to outlast me.


I am buying a 200AH AGM battery for $310 inc GST in Geelong.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

yeah! I know about the difference in quality but when people are looking on ebay price is king.

another lot on the idiot box had an everyday price of $5,990 for 5 kilowatt

.

Shopping around for electricity retailers today I get a kwh almost 9c cheaper if I say i dont have grid feed.

In Victoria it turns out that it is 100% state govt contribution to grid feed rates.
The electricity companies now pay ZERO as a contribution to grid feed.

So...our grid fed power is pure profit for the foreign owned companies that we are donating all our power to, so they can sell back to our neighbours for 5 times the price???/

Absolute crap situation.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by zilo

50% DOD for maximum life?...try 10% for maximum life.

On my little shack I now have 32 x 200AH batteries (for about 6kwh when the sun goes down) (1600ah at 48v configured as 8 strings of 4)

At 10% DOD I expect them to outlast me.


I am buying a 200AH AGM battery for $310 inc GST in Geelong.

That's pretty damn cheap, is that a 2V/6V battery or 12V?

Thats cheaper than my buy price on 12V AGM deep cycles that are 140AH.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

That's pretty damn cheap, is that a 2V/6V battery or 12V?

Thats cheaper than my buy price on 12V AGM deep cycles that are 140AH.

that's 12v matey....57 kilograms of Pb in every unit

I can PM you the details if you want?

[ebxr8240]

The thing is to use heavy power consumption through the day while the solar is working..
My hot elect hot water was put on a timer . I run my pool pump 1 hour a day this time of the year.. Don't use salt chlorinator as pump needs to run longer.. Cheaper to buy the chlorine .. Hot water timer has Saved me near $100 a quarter and I don't notice any difference.. I don't care too much on getting paid for solar TO network.. I'm mainly concerned in my usage and savings through the day..
TV and LED. Lights at night use little power.. My power bills used to be $ 900 to 1200 a quarter ..
Down to half that with 5k system..

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by zilo

Shopping around for electricity retailers today I get a kwh almost 9c cheaper if I say i dont have grid feed.

In Victoria it turns out that it is 100% state govt contribution to grid feed rates.
The electricity companies now pay ZERO as a contribution to grid feed.

So...our grid fed power is pure profit for the foreign owned companies that we are donating all our power to, so they can sell back to our neighbours for 5 times the price???/

Absolute crap situation.

yeah!, look you are right and it absolutely stinks mate but its going to get worse as more folks go off grid, those that are left will have to make up for the loss of profit for the moguls,

yes, we solar owners pay more for power and supply but the beauty of solar is that we draw a hell of a lot less from the grid.

I used to draw between 10 and 15 kilowatts per day from the grid, now I don't draw anything at all, i'm completely self sufficient during the day, we only draw at night, currently running @ very roughly $1,000 per year credit give or take.

those coming into the solar without a decent F.I.T. are getting flogged.

if the generators up the price as they are wanting to I too will get off the grid, just waiting for decent batteries to come within range, seen a few sets starting to get onto ebay now at a reasonable price, one I'm looking at is a 48v, 1000 amp hour set for around $15,500, of course I need the inverter and other stuff but they are getting down and still reliable.

Hard to find investors for the proposed new generator at Port Augusta now as the future does not look bright for power generators, people are fed up with the nonsense, gas is the next big thing.

Damo, listen to Zilo, my experiences echo his exactly, 10% discharge is well within operating range for these batteries, not 50%, I know folks who I've helped get off the grid are discharging well below 20% everyday, one household has done so for over 9 years now on the same set of batteries.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

yeah!, look you are right and it absolutely stinks mate but its going to get worse as more folks go off grid, those that are left will have to make up for the loss of profit for the moguls,

yes, we solar owners pay more for power and supply but the beauty of solar is that we draw a hell of a lot less from the grid.

I used to draw between 10 and 15 kilowatts per day from the grid, now I don't draw anything at all, i'm completely self sufficient during the day, we only draw at night, currently running @ very roughly $1,000 per year credit give or take.

those coming into the solar without a decent F.I.T. are getting flogged.

if the generators up the price as they are wanting to I too will get off the grid, just waiting for decent batteries to come within range, seen a few sets starting to get onto ebay now at a reasonable price, one I'm looking at is a 48v, 1000 amp hour set for around $15,500, of course I need the inverter and other stuff but they are getting down and still reliable.

Hard to find investors for the proposed new generator at Port Augusta now as the future does not look bright for power generators, people are fed up with the nonsense, gas is the next big thing.

Damo, listen to Zilo, my experiences echo his exactly, 10% discharge is well within operating range for these batteries, not 50%, I know folks who I've helped get off the grid are discharging well below 20% everyday, one household has done so for over 9 years now on the same set of batteries.

Poppa...

Your budget is more than enough for 1000A/48v in AGM
You can get AGM batteries at 1000Ah at 48v for around $6500........

In fact for your $15k budget you could get all the batteries, a Sunny island and an SMA5000TL and still have beer money.

($6500 batteries, $5k sunny island, $3k SunnyBoy, )

I installed it myself by reading the book for about an hour.

The inverters are pretty well plug and play once you set the rotary switch on the Sunny Island to 3,1 being off grid...it all just works and the Sunny Boy has no idea it's not on a grid.


.

[poppa smurf]

next rise we will look into it, if we are still in this house, halfwit up the road is still acting up so we may be starting again in a new house, then we will go the whole nine yards off grid.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by zilo

Shopping around for electricity retailers today I get a kwh almost 9c cheaper if I say i dont have grid feed.

In Victoria it turns out that it is 100% state govt contribution to grid feed rates.
The electricity companies now pay ZERO as a contribution to grid feed.

So...our grid fed power is pure profit for the foreign owned companies that we are donating all our power to, so they can sell back to our neighbours for 5 times the price???/

Absolute crap situation.

I would suggest not taking a word over the phone from a customer service rep or a sales person with the rates, as it is the tariff that will be your pricing. All retailers contracts basically have wording in it to state you will be charged the correct pricing once your tariff is checked even if you were told another price.

Also in July there will be a price increase for most retailers in Victoria, as prices can be changed every 6 months, so what you are being quoted now will more than likely not be the price in a months time.

All 3 Victorian retailers I have worked for did not increase the price if you had solar. What happens is that customers were changed from the single rate tariff to a Time of use tariff (peak and Off Peak usage for your whole house) The Time Of Use Tariff are more expensive than a single rate tariff. But even if you do not have solar you had a choice to go onto a Time Of Use tariff, even if you did not have solar. Only needed a smart meter.

But as I said most retailers in Victoria will have a price increase next month.

Most retailers have price fact sheet on their website. I would be interested if you could show me these higher rates for solar customers.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by xisled

I would suggest not taking a word over the phone from a customer service rep or a sales person with the rates, as it is the tariff that will be your pricing. All retailers contracts basically have wording in it to state you will be charged the correct pricing once your tariff is checked even if you were told another price.

Also in July there will be a price increase for most retailers in Victoria, as prices can be changed every 6 months, so what you are being quoted now will more than likely not be the price in a months time.

All 3 Victorian retailers I have worked for did not increase the price if you had solar. What happens is that customers were changed from the single rate tariff to a Time of use tariff (peak and Off Peak usage for your whole house) The Time Of Use Tariff are more expensive than a single rate tariff. But even if you do not have solar you had a choice to go onto a Time Of Use tariff, even if you did not have solar. Only needed a smart meter.

But as I said most retailers in Victoria will have a price increase next month.

Most retailers have price fact sheet on their website. I would be interested if you could show me these higher rates for solar customers.

23 cents for std use tariff unit in my Footscray property versus 35 cents time of use peak for a house in Torquay.

Std tariff still has a controlled load rate (hot water) at 10 cents at night.

Service fee about the same for both.

Bold text to highlight the humour in your post...

[xisled]

Originally Posted by zilo

23 cents for std use tariff unit in my Footscray property versus 35 cents time of use peak for a house in Torquay.

Std tariff still has a controlled load rate (hot water) at 10 cents at night.

Service fee about the same for both.

Bold text to highlight the humour in your post...

Well I still currently work for 2 of the retailers.

You are also comparing two different distribution areas. You are unable to compare Footscray (Jemena) pricing against Torquay (Powercor) pricing. The reason for this is the costs of electricity differs for these two suburbs. (yes where your home is located can have a massive affect on the cost of electricity).

http://www.originenergy.com.au/for-h...ct-sheets.html

This is the best example, click on the different distributor's using the same plan and see the variation in price. This shows you depending where you live will make a difference on your rate.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by xisled

Well I still currently work for 2 of the retailers.

You are also comparing two different distribution areas. You are unable to compare Footscray (Jemena) pricing against Torquay (Powercor) pricing. The reason for this is the costs of electricity differs for these two suburbs. (yes where your home is located can have a massive affect on the cost of electricity).

http://www.originenergy.com.au/for-h...ct-sheets.html

This is the best example, click on the different distributor's using the same plan and see the variation in price. This shows you depending where you live will make a difference on your rate.

Let me spell it out for you.

Tell your employers to shove it where the sun don't shine.

They aren't getting any more free product from me.

I cannot be won back, all the panels are off the roof now.

Guess they'll have to burn more coal aye?

[Mowdit]

I joined the solar team last year.
Before the rebate dissappears, with the hope of getting batteries one day.
20kw micro inverter system over 4 different roof area's, put a lot of them facing North West, trying to get the best out of them when the family gets home of an arvo.
1st full quarter bill was $50, down from $700, next bill due any day.
We are fairly conservative, even with the pool.
Now winter is here production has dropped by nearly a quarter, and have had to start turning the solar hot water on, but still hope to keep the bill to less than $150 for the quarter (maybe).
If electricity prices keep going up I expect to have the system paid for within six years.
Still getting only 9c kwh feed in here in syd (just)
Agree with the comments of retailers, they get our power for nearly nothing and market it to the guy next door as "green power" for a PREMIUM, and PROFIT even further.....

[Agile]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

yeah!, look you are right and it absolutely stinks mate but its going to get worse as more folks go off grid, those that are left will have to make up for the loss of profit for the moguls,

yes, we solar owners pay more for power and supply but the beauty of solar is that we draw a hell of a lot less from the grid.

I used to draw between 10 and 15 kilowatts per day from the grid, now I don't draw anything at all, i'm completely self sufficient during the day, we only draw at night, currently running @ very roughly $1,000 per year credit give or take.

those coming into the solar without a decent F.I.T. are getting flogged.

if the generators up the price as they are wanting to I too will get off the grid, just waiting for decent batteries to come within range, seen a few sets starting to get onto ebay now at a reasonable price, one I'm looking at is a 48v, 1000 amp hour set for around $15,500, of course I need the inverter and other stuff but they are getting down and still reliable.

Hard to find investors for the proposed new generator at Port Augusta now as the future does not look bright for power generators, people are fed up with the nonsense, gas is the next big thing.

Damo, listen to Zilo, my experiences echo his exactly, 10% discharge is well within operating range for these batteries, not 50%, I know folks who I've helped get off the grid are discharging well below 20% everyday, one household has done so for over 9 years now on the same set of batteries.

Dont you love it ?????? The calibre of politicians once again, sells us, the plebs, down the ****in river. There WILL BE major legislated obstacals to stop off grid battery systems. Think, water charges. You pay for the privilage of having the utility passing your property even if you dont use it and never will. Your service charges WILL be tied to your energy use. The less energy you use the higher the charge per KwH.

[poppa smurf]

yes, I've heard the same sort of thing, how they could enforce it though is beyond me, buggered if I will be paying it.