Earthquake Japan

[shedcoupe]

"survivors with no food and water and the developing humanitarian crisis"

How true. I imagine that most of us here are pretty blokey and could handle a situation like this fairly well, but most of the poor sods in the shelters are not.
And even tough-guys can go to pieces in disasters.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Flaming Mo

I think some hype lies in the fact that despite perhaps tens of thousands dead, towns destroyed, survivors with no food and water and the developing humanitarian crisis, the front page of every major global newspaper (and the content of this thread) is fixated on a nuclear power plant that appears to have killed no-one and may never will.

Even if the plant goes up Chernobyl style (which it won’t), the resulting casualties would be a fraction when compared to what has happened and to what is still going on. I agree the nuclear reactor is a serious issue and part of the story, but the media and consequently the public have confused it for THE story. Unfortunately the media are diverting the world’s attention from the real emergency.

The content of the news articles regarding the nuclear plant may not be hype, but I think the airtime and countless pages devoted to it, at the sacrifice of the real trauma is.

Despite what you think of Andrew Bolt, the man makes a point.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion-...-1226022037307

Umm well i dont know what news service you watch, but while the headlines report the nuclear drama they are still reporting the humanitarian side of things as well.

I have rarely seen a report focus soley on the reactor drama alone.

Every channel i watch has reporters on the ground showing the devestation and how people are scavenging for food and taking petrol from wrecked cars.

US warships off the coast of Japan are reporting radiation out to sea, Tokyo has also reported raised amounts of radiation some 200km away.

The crisis hasnt been forgotten.....

Andrew Bolts "opinion" of 65 people dead from Chernobyl are fuzzy, no real records were kept as the break up of the USSR made sure of this.
How many thousands of birth defects were there recorded?
I recall seeing a doco some 10yrs ago showing a hospital full of orphans who were all disfigured because their parents received doses of radiation during pregnancy or before they were pregnant..

I dont understand this fixation with .. its all HYPE?

No media outlet (newspaper/ TV) has gone overboard in its reporting here in Australia at least. The explosions have all been explained numerous times, the fact that 6 reactors were/ are having cooling dramas have all been reported bascially correctly and have all come from media releases from japan itself.

Yes all the initial news reports always start with the nuclear issues, but they always turn back to the orginal story of the tsunami.
Certainly some of the commercial media shows like Sunrise etc are not reporters or proper news show, so some of the people they interview are a bit, questionable, but for these shows its normal routine.

[mik]

it`s a small world, a mate i have`nt seen in a while , his son is a school teacher over there and was on the news as missing last night late hours, after scanning the net i found an article that says he has been found........what a relief, you see these events unfold a great distance away and don`t think they will effect you but...........

[shedcoupe]

'Sunrise' has been fairly ordinary, breathlessly saying a run-off whirlpool was actually at the epicenter, and that a meltdown would affect Australia. But they aren't a news outlet as such, just newsertainment.

[charles_wif_xf]

Originally Posted by shedcoupe

'Sunrise' has been fairly ordinary, breathlessly saying a run-off whirlpool was actually at the epicenter, and that a meltdown would affect Australia. But they aren't a news outlet as such, just newsertainment.

Sunrise can get stuffed, I was rapt beyond rapt that Kochie wasn't sent over there.

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Umm well i dont know what news service you watch, but while the headlines report the nuclear drama they are still reporting the humanitarian side of things as well.

I have rarely seen a report focus soley on the reactor drama alone.

Every channel i watch has reporters on the ground showing the devestation and how people are scavenging for food and taking petrol from wrecked cars.

US warships off the coast of Japan are reporting radiation out to sea, Tokyo has also reported raised amounts of radiation some 200km away.

The crisis hasnt been forgotten.....

Andrew Bolts "opinion" of 65 people dead from Chernobyl are fuzzy, no real records were kept as the break up of the USSR made sure of this.
How many thousands of birth defects were there recorded?
I recall seeing a doco some 10yrs ago showing a hospital full of orphans who were all disfigured because their parents received doses of radiation during pregnancy or before they were pregnant..

I dont understand this fixation with .. its all HYPE?

No media outlet (newspaper/ TV) has gone overboard in its reporting here in Australia at least. The explosions have all been explained numerous times, the fact that 6 reactors were/ are having cooling dramas have all been reported bascially correctly and have all come from media releases from japan itself.

Yes all the initial news reports always start with the nuclear issues, but they always turn back to the orginal story of the tsunami.
Certainly some of the commercial media shows like Sunrise etc are not reporters or proper news show, so some of the people they interview are a bit, questionable, but for these shows its normal routine.

Where did I say that news had stopped reporting the devastation. I said that the focus was on the nuclear reactor. I was watching Sky news this morning with every LEAD story dedicated to the plant. Sky news also covered the front pages of the world’s major newspapers, with EVERY front page dedicated to the plant. The large portion of the posts in this thread including most of yours, dedicated to the plant.

That was my point, not that the plant was the ONLY focus which it clearly isn’t, but it was irrationally the MAIN focus of media, hence the term "hype". Jim, don’t take someone else’s differing viewpoint so personally. My post was polite and based on my opinion, as is yours. Could do without the condescending “Umms”, it sets an unnecessarily combative tone for your reply.

Also on Chernobyl, Johnathon Holmes from Media Watch (hardly a friend of BOLT) has previously extensively researched Chernobyl for the Four Corner’s program. He has supported the casualty figures supplied by BOLT (and the U.N).

Cheers.

[atec77]

Originally Posted by charles_wif_xf

Sunrise can get stuffed, I was rapt beyond rapt that Kochie wasn't sent over there.

I can see the vallue in sending koochie into the centre of the hazzard

[shedcoupe]

No idea of the source (but if its from the web it must be true .....)

"It is looking increasingly likely that the reactors themselves will not cause a serious problem.

The spent fuel in the cooling ponds, however, seems to have just dandy Chernobyl potential. At some point, the least catastrophic course may be to have the engineers draw straws and see who carries the firehose up and drops it in the cooling pond. This job would be somewhat undesirable, because the estimated radiation flux at the cooling pond is currently estimated about 1 lethal dose in 16 seconds.

Fortunately, you can keep going for about an hour before you fall over, so they only need to sacrifice one guy to get the job done."

[shedcoupe]

What happens to irradiated cars -
http://perth.gumtree.com.au/c-Commun...AdIdZ267562094

[TZENU]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fukush...ry?id=13141287

So what they are saying is that something like this was inevitable?? It's concerning that things like this pop up now...

Also the fact that the US Navy is pulling back also seems to raise some concern....

[vibe_xr6]

expecting another one to blow up, they have also got all the workers out of there, planes have stopped also.
they are also saying, the tsnuami might not be the worst thing that has happened this month * mind the spelling *

[shedcoupe]

"NHK reporting that the gov't has upped the permissable level of radiation for the workers to 250 millisieverts in order to prevent nuclear disaster. Maybe this explains why the workers were evacuated & then allowed to return a short time later."
from comments at - http://www.facebook.com/notes/intern...02136259816168
(the IAEA's facebook page)

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by TZENU

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fukush...ry?id=13141287

So what they are saying is that something like this was inevitable?? It's concerning that things like this pop up now...

Also the fact that the US Navy is pulling back also seems to raise some concern....

There has been opposition to these reactors in Japan for decades, its just we dont see them here. That particular reactor station was built orginally in 1971.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...16/3165601.htm

Workers evacuated amid fresh nuke threat

Updated 22 minutes ago

Television images earlier showed white smoke, now thought to be steam, drifting from the nuclear plant.


All workers were briefly evacuated from the stricken Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan due to the threat of radiation, with fears the containment vessel around the No. 3 reactor may have been damaged.

Television images earlier showed white smoke, now thought to be steam, drifting from the nuclear plant, crippled by last week's devastating earthquake and ensuing tsunami.

Chief government spokesman Yukio Edano says the containment vessel at the No. 3 reactor may have suffered damage.

He says the fuel pool at the No. 3 reactor may have heated and produced the steam.

"It is likely that the steam is evaporating from the broken part of reactor No. 3," he said.

"We have got advice from experts to spray water from above... but there may be some risks if we pour large amounts of water in a very small time"

A fresh fire broke out in the No.4 reactor this morning but reportedly went out by itself, with firefighters unable to approach because of high radiation levels.

Mr Edano says the radiation reading at the main gate of the nuclear plant rose sharply earlier today and started to fall almost an hour later.

The radiation readings have fluctuated over recent days.

Mr Edano says it is possible radiation was released while trying to cool reactor No. 3.

"The number three reactor needed to have water injected and for that we needed to release the air, so the pressure was building up," he said.

"There is a possibility that there is radiation [released] from that process."

Mr Edano says they have not started injecting water into reactor No. 4.

TEPCO, the plant's operator, had announced tentative plans to dump boric acid onto the reactor from helicopters, but the government says this is too risky.

"Supplying water from above involves pumping a large amount of water and that involves risk," Mr Edano said.

"We have to think about the safety of helicopter operators."

- ABC/wires

[TZENU]

Originally Posted by shedcoupe

"NHK reporting that the gov't has upped the permissable level of radiation for the workers to 250 millisieverts in order to prevent nuclear disaster. Maybe this explains why the workers were evacuated & then allowed to return a short time later."
from comments at - http://www.facebook.com/notes/intern...02136259816168
(the IAEA's facebook page)

And to put it into perspective 350 millisieverts was the criteria to relocate people after the Chernobyl accident...

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf05.html

[shedcoupe]

"And to put it into perspective 350 millisieverts was the criteria to relocate people after the Chernobyl accident..."

Hey, ya gotta die of something ....

A strange paradox is that people in highly industrialised societies are exposed to more toxins than rural peasants, yet live much longer.
Some people live on steak and cigarettes and booze and die in a brothel on pension day, whereas others eat well and exercise, think positively and so on, yet die young of horrible diseases.

About 120 mSv a year is thought to be about as much as a body should have apparently.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

There has been opposition to these reactors in Japan for decades, its just we dont see them here. That particular reactor station was built orginally in 1971.

It was meant to be closed down a couple of years ago but was extended by another 10 years.

[shedcoupe]

correction - human exposure - from wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushi...lear_accidents

"Normal background radiation varies from place to place but is around 2.4mSv per year (or about 0.3 µSv/h).[172][173] The international, annual limit for radiation exposure for nuclear workers is 20 mSv/yr.[174] Chronic radiation exposure of 100mSv/yr is the "lowest level at which any increase in cancer is clearly evident," according to the World Nuclear Association.[175] Radiation sickness typically occurs at about 1000mSV total dose."

[cheap]

Latest update from NISA is up on their website.

http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/

Those guys at Fukushima power station have been doing it tough, more than likely they're contaminated, battling mis-hap after mis-hap, hopefully a little luck will slide their way, they've earnt some.

I wonder if some sections of the media will take a rest from the "nuclear winter" senario (sadly that's what some media had as headlines today). Perhaps it would be time to recognise their efforts or will they be abused by armchair warriors within the media with vested interests and agendas?

[nstg8a]

some of the footage today was unbelievable, the car dropped on top of a 3 storey building, the four storey building with fishing nets and debris hanging from the roof, the bit where the report was standing on the small hill saying 'this is the assembly point for the people in case of a tsunami, its supposed to be safe up here' and then the camera pans round and the whole area is just smashed...

[shedcoupe]

check the coastline - http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...-of-japan.html

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by cheap

Perhaps it would be time to recognise their efforts or will they be abused by armchair warriors within the media with vested interests and agendas?

yes im sure people are gonna abuse condemmed men......
still id like to know what agendas your talking about?

Funny enough despite the fact that there has been the Japanese PM on TV telling the world that things arent too goodand that dangerous levels of radiation has escaped and even that there are still fears that the case has cracked, your still trying to tell us about hidden agendas....

[NickyN]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

...........
Every channel i watch has reporters on the ground showing the devestation and how people are scavenging for food and taking petrol from wrecked cars..........

I wanted to ask, where'd you see this? I haven't seen any news clips about Japanese scavenging for food and taking petrol. Instead, I've seen many reports from CNN news (from worldwide reporters on site) and other news channels of how orderly, appreciative, and how helpful they are. Many commented how they were surprised, and in 5 days time they sort of expected chaos and looting. When water was passed out and they ran out, those in line who didn't get any didn't protest, yell out profanities or throw rocks. The Japanese accepted it and some even gave their water to the elderly who didn't get any. Again, reporters were surprised. Maybe because Japanese society values group identify more than individualism? At a time of crisis and need, group cohesiveness can make a big difference.

Residents in Tokyo are hoarding and panic buying supplies in case another earthquake happens. That's why convenience stores have bare shelves. Iodine tabs are also sold out.... all from panic buying.

I'm pretty sure not everyone will agree.... this is my humble opinion.

**Just wanted to add a link here....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJBHH85IY78

It's in Japanese, translation not necessary. It's a tender and heartwarming piece especially during such trying times. Enjoy.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by NickyN

Iodine tabs are also sold out.... all from panic buying.

Seems the Americans have been selling large quantities of Iodine tablets in the US.

[NickyN]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Seems the Americans have been selling large quantities of Iodine tablets in the US.

Yes, I saw that too. West Coast residents are buying, because of the fear that radioactive material will hit their coast. Even if experts say it's next to nil that it'll reach the U.S., fear will drive people to be prepared just in case.

[ST]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

yes im sure people are gonna abuse condemmed men......
still id like to know what agendas your talking about?

Funny enough despite the fact that there has been the Japanese PM on TV telling the world that things arent too goodand that dangerous levels of radiation has escaped and even that there are still fears that the case has cracked, your still trying to tell us about hidden agendas....

Would you please stop posting in this thread? Not only are you undoubtedly the least knowledgeable person here, you continuously attack another who only responds with calm rationality and understanding. You've done nothing but argue and demonstrate great ignorance instead of acknowledging the multitude of problems these people are facing. Also please stop being so alarmist till you can actually comprehend what it is that you are reading.

Back on topic, for anyone wanting to donate and help out I have found this excellent page: http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_newsro...mi-how-to-help It offers many different organisations and options for donations. Once again my thoughts are with Japan and all effected.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by ST

Would you please stop posting in this thread? Not only are you undoubtedly the least knowledgeable person here, you continuously attack another who only responds with calm rationality and understanding. You've done nothing but argue and demonstrate great ignorance instead of acknowledging the multitude of problems these people are facing. Also please stop being so alarmist till you can actually comprehend what it is that you are reading.

So lets get it right, another member who has abused me for posting links to news article is ok by you?
not to mention this others members own agenda and down playing of the accident.... and his left wing fears which he brought up out of the blue?

How about you read whats been said in the rest of the thread?

Im the least knowledgable????
Again show me where I have said something and made comments about whats been happening in Japan which isnt knowledgable?

I have asked "cehap" to tell me where the hidden agendas are, its a legitimate question as he keeps beating his drum about nuclear power being safe and that the media is making this out to worse then it actualy is.

Use the cut and paste feature to tell me where i have posted something which isnt factual or where i have claimed to be a nuclear powerplant expert.

[oddnutz]

this is terrible, that country is in deep trouble, I cannot believe how bad this is getting. god bless Japan.

[vibe_xr6]

apparently some people are getting asked to leave the country ??

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by ST

Would you please stop posting in this thread? Not only are you undoubtedly the least knowledgeable person here, you continuously attack another who only responds with calm rationality and understanding. You've done nothing but argue and demonstrate great ignorance instead of acknowledging the multitude of problems these people are facing. Also please stop being so alarmist till you can actually comprehend what it is that you are reading.

Lets keep the bickering and personal attacks out of this thread or people will get some warnings.

[ST]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Lets keep the bickering and personal attacks out of this thread or people will get some warnings.

There was no personal attack or bickering within my post at all, just an attempt to stop an ongoing argument and the spread of misinformation. I apologise for derailing the thread somewhat (which is why I have not responded to the post following mine).