Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

[ryeman]

Sandy Munro loves the Mach e’s engineering……it reminds me of our FGXR6.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by kmav23

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2021/04/b...car-australia/




Meanwhile, the cheapest drive-away price you’ll see for a Tesla in Australia is $68,425 excluding on-roads for the Tesla Model 3.

What the? Drive away or plus on road costs?

It's $68,094 drive away and in Vic, that's $65,094.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by kypez

What the? Drive away or plus on road costs?

It's $68,094 drive away and in Vic, that's $65,094.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Don’t forget the free fuel at the overnight motel.

[b0son]

S Plaid is here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUmkbzQ-BS0

Watching the presentation, I cant help but compare him to Jobs... both visionary guys, but Musk is a train-wreck when it comes to public speaking.

[davship]

Iam sure it will get better over the coming decades.



https://www.businessinsider.com.au/e...21-4?r=US&IR=T

[AMB]

Fast charging is going to be a major obstacle because of the infrastructure required. Just the cabling alone will be a problem. Imagine how huge the cabling would have to be to deliver the power required by a fuel station with say 20 outlets. Then you often have mutiple stations in an area, so you will need massive cables supplying that area. Similar problem will occur with charging at home, your small street might have 50-100 homes all trying to fast charge at the same time.
I was reading an interesting article the other day, about how much power is used by all ICE used for transport in the world. They calculated that to replace them all with electric, we will have to start building power stations at the rate of one a week to meet requirements. How accurate that is I dont know, but even if they are wrong by an order of magnitude, it makes the point that we (average Joe) dont really understand the problem.

[davship]

Originally Posted by AMB

Fast charging is going to be a major obstacle because of the infrastructure required. Just the cabling alone will be a problem. Imagine how huge the cabling would have to be to deliver the power required by a fuel station with say 20 outlets. Then you often have mutiple stations in an area, so you will need massive cables supplying that area. Similar problem will occur with charging at home, your small street might have 50-100 homes all trying to fast charge at the same time.
I was reading an interesting article the other day, about how much power is used by all ICE used for transport in the world. They calculated that to replace them all with electric, we will have to start building power stations at the rate of one a week to meet requirements. How accurate that is I dont know, but even if they are wrong by an order of magnitude, it makes the point that we (average Joe) dont really understand the problem.

And that same small street has roughly 2 cars per house (mum/dad) then when the kiddies get there license, thats another car per kid. Most small streets in suburbia are lined with cars, going to be interesting with all the extension leads running across footpaths etc... what happens if you cant park your car outside your place and have to park a few doors down.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Doubt it. Lamborghini comes under the VW banner for example. Otherwise they probably would have been killed off already under average emissions rules.

They would surely have to be under the Mercedes banner. They are Mercedes AMG after all.

Different rules in different countries I would imagine.
For the CAFE rules in USA (where it's a punitive tax, rather than restriction) its one of the reasons companies maintain separate brands. They put their gas-guzzlers into either Premium, Performance, or Trucking brands.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by davship

And that same small street has roughly 2 cars per house (mum/dad) then when the kiddies get there license, thats another car per kid. Most small streets in suburbia are lined with cars, going to be interesting with all the extension leads running across footpaths etc... what happens if you cant park your car outside your place and have to park a few doors down.

The utterly stupid thing is everyone rabbiting on as though "Electric Cars" are going to save the planet.
Small, Economical, low-usage cars (that Electricals can replace) are barely a drop in the bucket of energy consumption and emissions.

And the completely insane part, is that we can't generate enough clean power as it is. So even if we could replace every taxi, bus, truck, heavy machinery, etc, with Electric, and even if that made a substantial difference in reallocating energy consumption, the only way we can provide that extra power is burning fossil fuels.

For decades the pot-heads raged against Hydro-Power and Nuclear power, stifling its growth, and even forcing governments to decommission plants. Now they have shifted their focus to fossil fuels, and the world is back building hydro and Nuclear plants.
Their brains explode every time somebody wants to build a jetty or reclaim 2sqm of foreshore, but they advocate Tidal-Power that would devastate hundreds of hectares of mangroves for very little benefit.
Pretty soon they're going to figure out that nobody wants wind-power in their backyard either.
At least in Australia, we can cover the outback in solar-panels, and that will keep our local idiots happy, but considering we consume 1.1% of the world's energy, WTF is the rest of the world supposed to do?

[Falcon SXR8]

Old corty swapped to electric. Not my thing but thought it was well done and I liked he kept it manual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fChKm9aPQeE

[AMB]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

......
At least in Australia, we can cover the outback in solar-panels, and that will keep our local idiots happy...

It makes sense to me to use a tiny area of central Australia for nuclear power generation. Store the waste out there, perfect environment for it, very low rainfall, geologically very stable, a huge expanse, abundant nuclear fuel near by etc etc. No other country in the world would be more suitable for nuclear power generation.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by AMB

It makes sense to me to use a tiny area of central Australia for nuclear power generation. Store the waste out there, perfect environment for it, very low rainfall, geologically very stable, a huge expanse, abundant nuclear fuel near by etc etc. No other country in the world would be more suitable for nuclear power generation.

Unfortunately Nuclear power plants need bucket loads of water for cooling.

[AMB]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Unfortunately Nuclear power plants need bucket loads of water for cooling.

Plenty of artesian water out there, so much that we thought it was limitless.
A 2000 km pipeline would be nothing in the scheme of things anyway.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by AMB

Fast charging is going to be a major obstacle because of the infrastructure required. Just the cabling alone will be a problem. Imagine how huge the cabling would have to be to deliver the power required by a fuel station with say 20 outlets. Then you often have mutiple stations in an area, so you will need massive cables supplying that area. Similar problem will occur with charging at home, your small street might have 50-100 homes all trying to fast charge at the same time.
I was reading an interesting article the other day, about how much power is used by all ICE used for transport in the world. They calculated that to replace them all with electric, we will have to start building power stations at the rate of one a week to meet requirements. How accurate that is I dont know, but even if they are wrong by an order of magnitude, it makes the point that we (average Joe) dont really understand the problem.

For size of cabling to a fast charging station, smaller than one might think.

https://www.olex.com.au/eservice/Aus...Three_Core.pdf

Assuming the 185mm2 11kV cable selected, this is good for 341A @ 11kV. This is approximately 6.5MW. Assuming 200kW chargers, this is around 32 chargers. A 185mm2 cable will fit into a 100mm (4") duct.

As for houses, they will probably be fitted with slower chargers to charge overnight. I suspect there will be more use of off-peak tariffs to encourage EV to charge after the evening peak. There is a lot of idle electrical network capacity between 11PM and 6AM. Good time to really soak up the electrons.

[five 7]

Can't wait till New Zealand goes full EV in the not to distant future, that future looks so rosy and convenient.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-...h-back-to-gas/

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by five 7

Can't wait till New Zealand goes full EV in the not to distant future, that future looks so rosy and convenient.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-...h-back-to-gas/

that article sounds just like stupid buyers, not understanding what they are purchasing and the requirements needed. Sure there is lack of infrastructure out there but they should have known that before laying down the cash.

[five 7]

You realize the infrastructure to support full EV uptake will probably never be there, our Governments can't even organize what should be a simple nose probing, injection and short term incarceration with over a years practice.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by AMB

It makes sense to me to use a tiny area of central Australia for nuclear power generation. Store the waste out there, perfect environment for it, very low rainfall, geologically very stable, a huge expanse, abundant nuclear fuel near by etc etc. No other country in the world would be more suitable for nuclear power generation.

This is the most common sense statement i have heard so far, I have no idea why we never opened up the inland, artesian bore water is OK, and central Australia is sitting on a vast resource, no plate faultlines, a perfect place for nuclear power production!


Cheers King Billy

[FTE217]

Hum, The Traditional Custodians will have their say about that

[five 7]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Hum, The Traditional Custodians will have their say about that

Haha too true, the way it's going here in NZ, ours will be running the show soon.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by five 7

You realize the infrastructure to support full EV uptake will probably never be there, our Governments can't even organize what should be a simple nose probing, injection and short term incarceration with over a years practice.

I think it charge stations will be taken onboard by service stations. Shell and BP will begin retrofitting their stations with EV chargers. I think that's probably the way it will end up. I wouldn't trust any Australian government to do such a thing.
The other thing is people who buy EVs really need to understand what they're buying, they need to take some responsibility in doing a bit more reading. It's not really hard to get a beefier charge point installed at home.

[five 7]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I think it charge stations will be taken onboard by service stations. Shell and BP will begin retrofitting their stations with EV chargers. I think that's probably the way it will end up. I wouldn't trust any Australian government to do such a thing.
The other thing is people who buy EVs really need to understand what they're buying, they need to take some responsibility in doing a bit more reading. It's not really hard to get a beefier charge point installed at home.

Eight or 10 cars on the foot print of a servo for half a hour the que will be out the gate so to speak, imagine half our car fleet trying to charge, land is to scarce expensive these days to use for car charging. Picking they want us out of cars in the city anyway, but thats a conversation for another day. Just a foot note i have nothing against electric cars just don't think they are a viable alternative for the convenience of ice. The NZ Government is wanting to remove ice cars solely on there feel good Climate agenda.
Also the other day Comrade Ardern informed us most of had no right owning large gas guzzling Ranger type trucks, only farmers and tradies need to have them, failing to look in her own shed and what her partner drives who is a house husband. Scary to think she is making major decisions for our country.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by five 7

Eight or 10 cars on the foot print of a servo for half a hour the que will be out the gate so to speak, imagine half our car fleet trying to charge, land is to scarce expensive these days to use for car charging. Picking they want us out of cars in the city anyway, but thats a conversation for another day. Just a foot note i have nothing against electric cars just don't think they are a viable alternative for the convenience of ice. The NZ Government is wanting to remove ice cars solely on there feel good Climate agenda.
Also the other day Comrade Ardern informed us most of had no right owning large gas guzzling Ranger type trucks, only farmers and tradies need to have them, failing to look in her own shed and what her partner drives who is a house husband. Scary to think she is making major decisions for our country.

Yes, but with the convenience of house charging there is unlikely that huge queue, most would charge at home overnight, saving time and some $$, well the smarter people would, you'll always have the lazy whingers. Having a daily driver EV would save me heaps in fuel and time. Work from home now means I put fuel in the car may be once a fortnight or a month depending on any family outings. With an EV every night plug in and in theory have around 400km fueled up by the time I get into the car the next day, rarely ever needing to go to a charge station. I'd use a charge station for those longer trips interstate.

In addition many of the current pumps won't be needed so you in theory could rock up to any area of the servo, no need to wait in line for 98, 91 or anything like that. There will be an adjustment period for sure but it is going to happen like it or not. The real issue we have in Australia is a federal government that has no real policy outlined for future of transportation so no one is keen to step up and invest. Typically the states have done it themselves and it is a mess. Judging by what has been presented so far, NSW has a slightly better policy than VIC but both are not great.

[GasoLane]

[QUOTE=Wretched;6594508]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Yes, but with the convenience of house charging there is unlikely that huge queue, most would charge at home overnight, saving time and some $$, well the smarter people would, you'll always have the lazy whingers.

In addition many of the current pumps won't be needed so you in theory could rock up to any area of the servo, no need to wait in line for 98, 91 or anything like that. ​

I know a few people that live in the inner suburbs in Syd that don't even have a driveway, which would make it interesting.

As for servo's and the waiting in line for someone who takes (maybe) 5 mins to fill now, imagine the lineup if it takes 30mins!

[Vesper Martini]

I used to have an LPG powered car, there was a government incentive & the installation paid for itself within a year.
I was running a cleaner fuel for the environment but that not why I had it fitted, it was a cost saving exercise.
eventually prices for LPG went up, and I got sick of needing to refuel every 330kms
LPG stations have started to disappear because its not economically viable.

why am I posting this here? there are a few similarities & because at the moment EV does not even stack up to what LPG does. and nobody wants LPG anymore.

nothing against EV - it is what it is.

[five 7]

[QUOTE=GasoLane;6594514][QUOTE=Wretched;6594508]I know a few people that live in the inner suburbs in Syd that don't even have a driveway, which would make it interesting.


Here ya go Gaso just pop one of these out front.

[AMB]

Originally Posted by five 7

Here ya go Gaso just pop one of these out front.

Thats what I was thinking, recharging stations could be put anywhere there is enough room and a good power supply. No flammmable liquids involved, so no safety issues. No need for any employees, just tap and go. The big servo/fuel companies will quickly lose their oligopoly.

[five 7]

[Wretched]

[QUOTE=GasoLane;6594514]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I know a few people that live in the inner suburbs in Syd that don't even have a driveway, which would make it interesting.

As for servo's and the waiting in line for someone who takes (maybe) 5 mins to fill now, imagine the lineup if it takes 30mins!

In Europe they do have charging solutions for on street parking. Afterall not many over there have the luxury of driveways or garages.

[jpd80]

Perhaps we’re trying to find all the solutions too quickly before technology has time to catch up.

First off, most BEVs will probably be urban commuter vehicles that mostly home charge or
return to a Home Depot every night (council buses and last mile delivery vehicles).

Things like lots of public charging infrastructure will probably need to be a slower build up and
probably more like car parking lots rather than service station model (slowly die out?).

For Australia, hybrids and PHEVs probably for this generation while EVs get better with cost,
range and charge rate. Weight reduction with aluminium bodies, frames to offset battery weight
must surely be a next step, cut about 400 kg out of vehicle weight makes a huge difference.