Ford Announces New Engine Direction - Page 11

**Polyal** · 18-07-2007, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Short answer is no... an Average joe wouldn't care.. just look at Camry/Aurion sales!

Re-engineering falcon for FWD would be a massive expense.. not just in engineering but re-tooling the plant too.

Short term yeah it would cost, long term you would make it back ten fold.

Think of it, one global car, for all countries, and apparently all conditions; sounds peachy /sarcasm

The only thing you would then need to engineer for each country would be ride, and even then some global cars dont even bother with that.

I have driven the current mustang V6, poo to say the least, aswell as the ST220 V6, which is a mile better. But I am still skeptical about either in falcon.

And then lets stop thinking about the Falcon, what about the Territory? It will be like the Mazda CX7, under powered and using more fuel than it should be.

BTW, how freakin fast is this thread moving...jeez!

VeloXR6 · 18-07-2007, 10:30 PM

OMFG - how is a V6 going to ddrag a territory around ???????

Falcon Freak · 18-07-2007, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

Have you driven the V6? If so, you can say it is a POS. Unless you have been to the USA, and hired one, then I think it is safe to say, you have not, and therefore have no grounds to say that it is crap (or in your words, a POS).

You don't need to kill somebody to know that murder is bad.

Duratec 35 produces less torque then the Barra - anout the same amount produced by Holden's Alloytech. Most people have commented on how poor the torque is on that engine.

Duratec 35 is a spinner as it produces its torque up high. The Barra is a slugger as it produces torque down low. Australians prefer to driver sluggers then spinners.

FF

Perana · 18-07-2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

Thanks for your assumption, but I do go to the US regularly and have hired Mustangs .... they have not got an a**hoe of a chance on the BA engine - actually, thier v8's probably would struggle against the BA I6....
Seriously - have YOU actually been to the US yourself ??? otherwise you might know how sh&^t US cars actually are and would be very scared at what we are looking forward to here ....

Good thing the current Mustang V6 is an old POS motor that is being replaced as well by the Duratec 35/37

RIPGMH · 18-07-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chich

There is a valuable lesson to be learnt with the current situation - adapt or die. This decision should've been made 10yrs ago, not now where Ford Australia - and more importantly - Ford HO is bleeding money left, right & centre.

The I6 has always been behind the 8 ball and as such, was always on borrowed time. Case in point - it only received a twin cam head 3 years ago where the rest of the world was using the technology milleniums ago. It is a good engine, its definitely come a long way but its time to put it the thing to rest and work towards something better.

Yeah the Australian public is purely technology driven thats why Holden run a very modern overhead cam v8 and the alloy tec v6 has been around for decades. You clearly have never been a passenger in a hot aussie six.

Perana · 18-07-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

You don't need to kill somebody to know that murder is bad.

Duratec 35 produces less torque then the Barra - anout the same amount produced by Holden's Alloytech. Most people have commented on how poor the torque is on that engine.

Duratec 35 is a spinner as it produces its torque up high. The Barra is a slugger as it produces torque down low. Australians prefer to driver sluggers then spinners.

FF

Go look at the Torque CURVE.. peak figures are just a ****

If Australians prefer sluggers than why is the Corolla currently the highest selling car.. those things love a rev..

RIPGMH · 18-07-2007, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Go look at the Torque CURVE.. peak figures are just a ****

If Australians prefer sluggers than why is the Corolla currently the highest selling car.. those things love a rev..

Yeah because a Corolla owner is primairly concerned with an engines ability to rev.....

asusdragon · 18-07-2007, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Go look at the Torque CURVE.. peak figures are just a ****

If Australians prefer sluggers than why is the Corolla currently the highest selling car.. those things love a rev..

more coz there cheap to run 4 banger cheap to fix and pretty much unchanged in well i really not sure how many years but a while a that

**Polyal** · 18-07-2007, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

Yeah because a Corolla owner is primairly concerned with an engines ability to rev.....

LOL...exactly.

VeloXR6 · 18-07-2007, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Good thing the current Mustang V6 is an old POS motor that is being replaced as well by the Duratec 35/37

So State your own experience with these engines rather than quoting facts and numbers....

Kryton · 18-07-2007, 10:40 PM

whats all the fuss?
the Herald Sun (or The Age - one of them) clearly stated that in 2010 the Geelong V6 engine plant will discontinue making the V6 and start importing the I6. go look for yourself

another thing that really shits me is people like the one i heard today saying that Ford are still using the same engine they did 20 years ago.

mik · 18-07-2007, 10:40 PM

sad to see another piece of australian history go, but ford has to change with the times, according to an article in the age a few days ago, due to tariffs imports etc in australia we have 70 odd car models, us has only 30 odd to compete with, (looks like they protect their car car industry) , the straight big 6 is harder to make compact body work changes thats probably the gripe for ford imo, we`ll to wait an see what henry gives us.

Perana · 18-07-2007, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I have driven the current mustang V6, poo to say the least, aswell as the ST220 V6, which is a mile better. But I am still skeptical about either in falcon.

Mustang V6 is of no relevance to us anyway.. it is being replaced by the Duratec 35.

The ST220 is 3L.. so add 500cc to 700cc to that.. and possibly DI..

Sure it may not be quite as good torque wise but ask a lot of people what they think of the Alloytec and they think its great.. goes really well.. of course they are not enthusiasts, but this is probably because it revs.. and has lower low end torque.. so when it kicks in it feels fast ie it gives them the perception that it goes better.. Exactly the same as the High first gear in the VN.. it felt fast. to most people that is all they know they don't actually look at figures just go by how it feels and how much fuel it uses...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

Yeah because a Corolla owner is primairly concerned with an engines ability to rev.....

And a falcon owner is primarily concerned with low end torque..

:

People buy cars because they look good / FEEL fast / are economical / are SAFE, not because it has a lazy inline 6

Perana · 18-07-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

So State your own experience with these engines rather than quoting facts and numbers....

Have driven a number of Duratec 25 and 30 engined cars.. Have Driven a couple Exploders which have both the Pushrod V6 and the OHC V6 from the Mustang.. They are nothing alike, and considering the larger capacity of the Falcon Duratec I am looking forward to it..

Seeing I live in AU i have not yet driven the Duratec 35...

RIPGMH · 18-07-2007, 10:46 PM

BRING BACK GEOFF POLITIES

Perana · 18-07-2007, 10:48 PM

Yeah im sure Geoff would've saved it :rolleyes:

Face it nothing was going to save it.

**Polyal** · 18-07-2007, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

People buy cars because they look good / FEEL fast / are economical / are SAFE, not because it has a lazy inline 6

LOL

This is very true, Holden is proof of this, but lazy I6? No one would have uttered those words a week or so ago.

Perana · 18-07-2007, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

LOL

This is very true, Holden is proof of this, but lazy I6? No one would have uttered those words a week or so ago.

By lazy i mean an engine that doesnt like revving much and has a fair amount of low end torque.. It's always been a "lazy" engine. i'm not saying the I6 is a bad engine.. I think it's great, BUT i also think its either time that a LOT of money was spent on modernising it (including the bottom end which is the expensive bit!) or replacing it. It is just not in the same league as some of these new engines.

RIPGMH · 18-07-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

By lazy i mean an engine that doesnt like revving much and has a fair amount of low end torque.. It's always been a "lazy" engine

That would make the BOSS engine an absolute dole bludger

Van D · 18-07-2007, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

Yeah because a Corolla owner is primairly concerned with an engines ability to rev.....

And every falcon owner is? Jeeze, a larger part of them might have being back when falcons were at their best. But it's a completely different age now. People want economy, not low down torque. And how many of us falcon lovers who rave about the low down torque for 'towing a caravan out into the sunset of the Aussie outback' actually tow something? I hardly ever see a new falcon with a tow ball. Those days are gone for the majority, just like camping out in a panelvan.

Toyota has a bit chunk of the sales and Ford needs some back. Ford is NOT a luxury or high profile performance company that can give the customer just what they want, they're a mass produced brand who are struggling to survive at the moment and need to do some changes.

rodderz · 18-07-2007, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asus_dragonorb

now with this thinking, ford put a v6 in the falcon most ppl will not know the difference, ford will still see lower sales due to the falcon - heavy fuel user name i dont know if i see it being all that great maybe if they did hate to say it drop the falcon name and use a new one it might better to promote this new engine

Yes but no doubt they will pushing the fuel saving attributes of it. But as said, this reason is only one of many that would of been considered

chippa · 18-07-2007, 10:59 PM

I have spent about 1 1/2 hrs reading all of this i think i will go out to my BF XR6T 6SPD Auto turn the key and go out into the nice cool night air and listen to that sweet note comming from under the lid and be happy in the fact that i can say that i owned a great aussie performance car to my kids when they are old enough to appreciate this just the way i dreamed about owning a GT when i was a kid....
Thing is i will most likely be able to show them the car in the flesh as i will keep this car for many many years.
How many of us Ford guys envy seeing older guys that have had their pride and joy in the family since new????
I simply say that if you are lucky enough to own an XR6T,F6,XR8,GT and all the other great performance models of recent years savor the moment and be happy in the fact that you have been part of an great time to own one!!!
Sad to see it go,happy to have one...

sleekism · 18-07-2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

That would make the BOSS engine an absolute dole bludger

Quote of the thread!!!

RIPGMH · 18-07-2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popinfresh

And every falcon owner is? Jeeze, a larger part of them might have being back when falcons were at their best. But it's a completely different age now. People want economy, not low down torque. And how many of us falcon lovers who rave about the low down torque for 'towing a caravan out into the sunset of the Aussie outback' actually tow something? I hardly ever see a new falcon with a tow ball. Those days are gone for the majority, just like camping out in a panelvan.

Toyota has a bit chunk of the sales and Ford needs some back. Ford is NOT a luxury or high profile performance company that can give the customer just what they want, they're a mass produced brand who are struggling to survive at the moment and need to do some changes.

If you want economy buy a camry, I don't think I've talked to anyone that bought a falcon for its "economy"

VeloXR6 · 18-07-2007, 11:02 PM

OK - I want to reomve myself from argument or Flame .... I am just a silly Old C who wants to remember the I6 for what it was to me .... and I feel sorry that the next generation cannot experience the excellent engine that it is. I own a BA XR6 because it is just so great, I could have bought an Xr6T / Xr8, but I found the Xr6 just to be an exceptional engine that met my needs (an I am a hoon - no doubt) but the I6 just performs as it should and does not give up.

I do think it is the end of performance first .... yes the I6 is thirsty, which probably led to its demise, but those of us who bought it on its performance merit dont really give a sh*&t .... obviously not good business.

It is sad, and I feel sad, and to be honest, I feel my love affair with ford ends with the demise of the I6 ... so begins a new chapter...

In the end when it comes down to Ford V Holden , I know where my loyalty lies, but when it comes to my hard earned $$ ... I want quality and performance, and if I can buy Au made to suit those expectations, it is anyones money.

RIPGMH · 18-07-2007, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chippa

I have spent about 1 1/2 hrs reading all of this i think i will go out to my BF XR6T 6SPD Auto turn the key and go out into the nice cool night air and listen to that sweet note comming from under the lid and be happy in the fact that i can say that i owned a great aussie performance car to my kids when they are old enough to appreciate this just the way i dreamed about owning a GT when i was a kid....
Thing is i will most likely be able to show them the car in the flesh as i will keep this car for many many years.
How many of us Ford guys envy seeing older guys that have had their pride and joy in the family since new????
I simply say that if you are lucky enough to own an XR6T,F6,XR8,GT and all the other great performance models of recent years savor the moment and be happy in the fact that you have been part of an great time to own one!!!
Sad to see it go,happy to have one...

Let them pry the keys out of your cold dead hands becuase time will prove you are driving a dead set aussie legend.

Perana · 18-07-2007, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

If you want economy buy a camry, I don't think I've talked to anyone that bought a falcon for its "economy"

I guess you would rather Ford do nothing and sell less and less cars until FoA shuts up shop then you have no choice but to buy a camry...

RIPGMH · 18-07-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

I guess you would rather Ford do nothing and sell less and less cars until FoA shuts up shop then you have no choice but to buy a camry...

I would rather FoA shut up shop and go out with a bang then become the white goods producing limp wrists most car companies are these days.

VeloXR6 · 18-07-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

I guess you would rather Ford do nothing and sell less and less cars until FoA shuts up shop then you have no choice but to buy a camry...

Isin't that the point ....

If ford can't do it ... why bother being passionate .... we all can't be holden lovers...

darkside · 18-07-2007, 11:09 PM

boy their are alot of opinions here ,all i got to say is that their are a few of my friends that have 6bangers ba/f's and they are ****ed

: that i get better economy from my gt ,and its not even close on a trip ,we live for the future ...bring it on .....doc