All things Solar (merged threads)

[ford man xf]

What rebates are still available from the Federal government for solar? I know the Victorian state government offers a rebate?

[SPArKy_Dave]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

What rebates are still available from the Federal government for solar? I know the Victorian state government offers a rebate?

The Victorian Govco rebate, which is indexed - up to $2,225 for a 4kw solar system.
Plus the original Federal Govco STC 'rebate' - also indexed with the Solar System size - about $1,900 for a 4kw system.

(I install/repair solar and battery systems, for a living)

[AlanD]

Hi all,

Just a heads up.

Received the letter in the attachment yesterday, and since we have been looking at battery storage I figured I might as well spend a bit of time talking with them.

After a bit of forwards and backwards, during which the "offer" was designed to make me anxious to pay money and get involved, the "Closed group-Testing Phase" boiled down to the following:

1. Battery is a Lithium based unit having 3 kWhr of capacity.
2. The cost of the battery is stated at slightly north of $4000.
3. Sign up also commits you to a 5 year maintenance contract at slightly south of $2000 - ie $400 per annum
4. The deal also requires that you agree to allowing them to have access to the battery electronic internals via your LAN and then through the modem so battery data/performance can be uploaded for "analysis".

It happens that, given our usage in the Ausnet distribution area of Victoria, we spend about $350 per annum on electrical energy (there is also the supply charge which doubles this figure, but if you are connected to the grid you can not avoid this cost) so across a 10 year period the rough savings would be about $3500 which is less than the battery cost. At that point I advised the rep that no I wouldn't like to go any further and no I am not going to pay a deposit, thanks for your time.

Since then I've had a chance to crunch the numbers with a little more accuracy - I made the following assumptions:

1. There would be no battery deterioration - which isn't the case as my research suggests that at the end of 10 years you can expect 80% of the original capacity.
2. The battery would store and return it's full capacity each day after sunset but before 11:00 pm - also not true owing to overcast days and nights where the residence is unoccupied.
3. Energy costs would escalate - here I calculated the 10 year end point cost based on increases per year of 2.5% and achieved an average figure across the period.

Based on this the savings would be $3150 - not looking good - and it is going to be a lot less owing to the factors in 2 and 3 immediately above..

At the average energy rate I calculated $6000 approx. buys 20.855 MWhr or 5.7 kWhr per day (almost twice the battery capacity)across the 10 years which equals about $1.63 per day.

This looks to me like a "clever" marketing scheme dressed up to look like a "Bargain" if you get to be lucky and are selected to take part in the data gathering process.

And it carries another danger: you will be giving a company over which you have no control access through you router/modem fire wall as a part of the data gathering process.

You may care to spread the message - non attributable.

Cheers

[Mowdit]

Hi all,
I've come back to this thread due to circumstances.

Micro Inverter Systems, they can be great, and are sold as an all in one solution, this is not the case !
FYI, the panel and inverter are considered to be seperate (with seperate manufacturer's) for warranty purposes.

I first noticed my system wasn't performing properly at just over the 2 year mark, so I contacted the manufacturer (Tindo Solar who also claim they warranty the system) who promptly duck shoved me back to the installer (who did a #hit job originally), so I persisted and was again passed off to the micro inverter manufacturer who didn't want to know either........
So I installed led lighting and updated appliances to cut my energy use.

Fast forward another 2 years and only 1 panel out of 20 now functions reasonably ! (15 don't even register now ).
As the installer has gone under Tindo are now responsible, yet since notifying them 4 months have passed, a sparky did show to test the system for 1 hour, yes the system is faulty but they didn't actually test the inverters(on the roof), so still nothing fixed....
As they have to prove the inverter is faulty, then lodge a claim via the inverter manufacturer...
You would think they would bring out 20 spares on the day so they can change the faulty units and back charge, saving 2-4 visits.....

Turns out the early batches of inverters installed during manufacture were problematic (yet like Ford they weren't proactive to fix a problem).

So check your production weekly, or monthly, and make sure who is actually responsible for the inverters.

[AlanD]

Originally Posted by Mowdit

Hi all,

Turns out the early batches of inverters installed during manufacture were problematic (yet like Ford they weren't proactive to fix a problem).

So check your production weekly, or monthly, and make sure who is actually responsible for the inverters.

Hi Mowdit,

Thanks for your Thanks

Now you may know this, but I'll provide it any way.

Over the years I have had a number of occasions to go "Head to Head" with suppliers of faulty devices/equipment. Early on I realised that phones and emails are useless for practical purposes and you need to go into print - this oftentimes poses a problem about finding an address and the name of the senior person in a company.

Normally inverters are sold with a warranty that is often 5 years and you are four years (apparently) into that period.

I would be writing the CEO of the company that supplied the equipment (Tildo?) and inform them that you require resolution of the problem under the guarantee terms as well as the "fit for purpose" parts of Australian consumer law. Also indicate a date by which you want resolution completed. Keep a copy of the letter and send it by registered mail. Indicate that failure to provide a resolution satisfactory to you will result in getting both the ACCC and your state's consumer affairs people involved in the matter. I have, on a few occasions said that I will, if no satisfactory response is provided, instruct my solicitor to commence proceedings via the courts (in Victoria where I live this would be VCAT) and a part of the claim would be for out of pocket damages ie legal expenses and costs associated with obtaining satisfaction - but if you do this be prepared to carry out the advice and this will involve some expense to do initially.

If you have them, a copy of your original invoice showing the date of installation together with a copy of the guarantee terms showing the period of the guarantee to establish that you are inside that period helps.

Generally I will give a company a chance to resolve a matter by email or phone just the one time then I go down the path I have described. I can say I have not had a circumstance where my problem has not been resolved at this point.

Good luck - thanks for the information about micro inverters.

Cheers

[roKWiz]

Just my opinion but I think so many of these Johnny come lately PV manufacturers (usually Chinese) and (carbon credit greedy) installers have destroyed what was a great quality industry when it was mainly used for marine, RV and RAP systems.
Over the years I have seen the quality of panels, controllers etc go down, where after a couple of years the stuff is almost useless.
The whole industry is now flooded with cheap imported junk which the gullible are being talked into using, based on costs.

At the moment I'm currently (sic) finishing off a new 12V RAP system cabin I've been building using older PV technology where I know the stuff is proven and is sold by people living offgrid and have done so for years, long before it became a fashionable way to make or save money using rebates / subsidies while still being connected to the 240v umbilical cord.

rant over.

[snap0964]

Originally Posted by AlanD

Hi all,Just a heads up.Received the letter in the attachment yesterday, and since we have been looking at battery storage I figured I might as well spend a bit of time talking with them.

Great writeup and research. I received a letter like that - and a followup as well, both I never responded to. With around 4kw domestic and 7kw hot water daily use, yes, it was never going to be even close to suit my needs with a 3kw panel system.

[zilo]

In Tasmania we have two houses one off grid and one on grid.

Both have Sunny island 8.0H inverters, twin SMA 5000TL grid feed inverters (which work off grid as well) 10kw of solar panels on one site and 18kw of panels on the other.

the ongrid site, has 60kw of lithium battery,by BYD
the offgrid site has 45kw of lithium battery , by BYD

I have been buying 250w monocrystalline panels from a wholesaler/installer in Dandenong for $18 a panel...that's eighteen dollars a panel gents.

The scam which is the solar industry in Australia convinces a lot of people to take down their perfectly good working system and replace it with a shiney new system and get the 'PV rebate" again...of course the inverter and etc has to be new as well.

So...have been buying perfectly good SMA 5kw inverters for...$40 each!

The 14kw BYD pro lithium batteries come in at $6700 each...I laugh at what people are paying for stupid 5kw battery systems....that is a joke.

With 60kw of lithium we use nothing on the grid on our off grid property now...we connected the grid to the generator input of the Sunny island 8.0H and did that purely to use the grid as a backup.....so far only service to property charges have accrued.

We use reverse cycle air con for heating....approx 30kw a day
We use normal element type Hot water systems...the vaccuum tube etc stuff is just another scam..best to just put up more PV panels.

Soon we will probably disconnect the grid entirely.

Our off grid setup has 3 sunny island inverters configured as 3 phase.

fantastic gear...anyone needing any details feel free to PM me or whatever.

Total amount claimed in subsidies...zero

[Mulva]

So get own gear direct from wholesaler, get local sparky to install = win@life?

[wodahs]

harder to claim gov rebates that way (unless you go off grid) and some sparkies wont work with solar

[kaniSS]

Hey dudes, can anyone recommend any inverters and panels not built in China? I want to get my solar setup going but not Chinese made stuff. Cheers.

[SJG351]

This is our setup
24 @ LG350N1C panels
Selectronic SPMC481-AU 2i Charge controller
Fronius Primo selectronic certified Inverter
5 @ Zenaji Aeon 48V/40AH Lithium Titanate Batteries 2Kwh ea
Since end of Feb we are $350 in credit with our provider and we are having another 2 batteries installed to see us through from sun down to sun up.

[Tassie f100]

Can you get your credits paid in cash or do they just keep adding up with no where to spend them??

[SJG351]

Guys, How many of you have had a lithium battery explode or catch fire? That is why i went with the Titanate Technology, I have a written 20yr warranty for this battery type, able to fully charge and discharge 3 times a day and at the end of 20 years still able to hold at least 80% charge capacity. Did i mention they are bomb proof i will post a pic of my setup when admin lets me.

[SJG351]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Can you get your credits paid in cash or do they just keep adding up with no where to spend them??

Sorry mate i dont know, We have our first bill due in about a week, we installed our system in late feb so it will be interesting to see.

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Can you get your credits paid in cash or do they just keep adding up with no where to spend them??

dont quote me but i was under the understanding (well in W.A. anyways) once a year mid year if your in credit they send you a cheque

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by SJG351

Guys, How many of you have had a lithium battery explode or catch fire? That is why i went with the Titanate Technology, I have a written 20yr warranty for this battery type, able to fully charge and discharge 3 times a day and at the end of 20 years still able to hold at least 80% charge capacity. Did i mention they are bomb proof i will post a pic of my setup when admin lets me.

Post away, no rules against posting pics.

Originally Posted by SJG351

Sorry mate i dont know, We have our first bill due in about a week, we installed our system in late feb so it will be interesting to see.

I've found that late Summer/early Autumn along with Spring/early Summer are usually the best times for Solar around here.

[SJG351]

Originally Posted by wodahs

dont quote me but i was under the understanding (well in W.A. anyways) once a year mid year if your in credit they send you a cheque

You would think they would have to give you payment? After all you are a micro power company and it is a legitimate transaction, I will soon find out

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by SJG351

You would think they would have to give you payment? After all you are a micro power company and it is a legitimate transaction, I will soon find out

yearly so far ive never been in credit
but i do know every time you earn a credit and they owe you they still take the gst from you as ive been in this situation even as a micro power company providing a service to them

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Mulva

So get own gear direct from wholesaler, get local sparky to install = win@life?

yep...get an ABN number...10% discount on everything...
Then you get the depreciation as well.

I once had a pallet of solar panels that sat in the shed for three years...they were paid off/written off before they were ever installed.

Of course mums and dads cant do that and get the "rebate" which is codeword for inflated price by value of the rebate...

You dont need a sparky to install a solar panel...especially if you are on car forums where most of us can change a 12v battery without an electrician.

If you call a phillips head screwdriver a "plus" screwdriver then yeah...you need a sparky...

Little known fact...fit a 3 pin mains plug to an inverter and plug in to a power point and yep...you are grid feeding/self consuming.

If you dont give a stuff about being paid for what goes on the grid then dont bother telling anyone about it....after all you wouldnt bother calling Powercor when you start up your generator would you? Solar is just another generator.

Of course some twit will zap himself with these comments no doubt...


AFF takes no responsibility for any advice given on these forums. AFF highly recommends that you use your common sense and employ a licensed electrician for any type of electrical work particularly installing solar panels.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by zilo

If you dont give a stuff about being paid for what goes on the grid then dont bother telling anyone about it....after all you wouldnt bother calling Powercor when you start up your generator would you? Solar is just another generator.

Unless they happen to be working on the regular power lines when your solar is feeding power to them

[zilo]

Originally Posted by kaniSS

Hey dudes, can anyone recommend any inverters and panels not built in China? I want to get my solar setup going but not Chinese made stuff. Cheers.

Sure...SMA for inverters....anything else is "also ran"

Panels..they are all made in China...even "Canadian Solar"...

[zilo]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Unless they happen to be working on the regular power lines when your solar is feeding power to them

Nope, many think that...but grid feed inverters have anti-islanding by design..grid down...inverter stops in milliseconds....grid feed inverters need 50hz reference...if that isn't detected...off she goes for a while before it tries again....with increasing wait duration per retry.

Try it...switch your main board feed off and watch your inverter stop...and very quickly too.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by zilo

Nope, many think that...but grid feed inverters have anti-islanding by design..grid down...inverter stops in milliseconds....grid feed inverters need 50hz reference...if that isn't detected...off she goes for a while before it tries again....with increasing wait duration per retry.

Try it...switch your main board feed off and watch your inverter stop...and very quickly too.

Ah that's good to know. I'll pass that onto the Electricians that fitted ours

[zilo]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Ah that's good to know. I'll pass that onto the Electricians that fitted ours

NP...if they are still in business that is (most solar companies phoenix regularly)....

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by zilo

NP...if they are still in business that is (most solar companies phoenix regularly)....

The three here in town have been going for over 7 years that I know of.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

The three here in town have been going for over 7 years that I know of.

You are lucky,but country towns hold businesses far more accountable.

Big cities you' re likely to have a solar business started up by someone on a 457 visa...give huge promises...take the money and run back to somewhere east of us and on the equator with 24.5 years left on the worthless warranty..

[CJR09]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Post away, no rules against posting pics.I've found that late Summer/early Autumn along with Spring/early Summer are usually the best times for Solar around here.

Good sun angle and less temp to overheat it

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by kaniSS

Hey dudes, can anyone recommend any inverters and panels not built in China? I want to get my solar setup going but not Chinese made stuff. Cheers.

My DC offgrid setup uses second hand Aussie made (until BP bought them out)
Solarex panels. I bought them from a guy who deals in good used panels.
Windgenerator is from Southwest power, Arizona.
Motorhome uses US Canon Unisolar panels. keep producing power over the 25 deg standard of other panels.

Bought 20 100W armophous panels (shade tolerant) so far I'm using 12 of the batch.
Chinese stuff is rubbish that doesn't last long (like bicycles)

I hear Vitron inverters (Norway) are the go, though I don't use inverters.

[SJG351]

Guys when i try to upload a pic i get a message about a security token? I get told to contact admin