FG X, The Last EVER Falcon - Picture & Discussion Thread

[csv8]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

If falcon was to continue on elsewhere, would need to raid the Ford parts bin as much as possible. Perhaps run the Mondeo electrical system and drivetrain, in Falcon shell, except in rwd format. Ford Australia has failed so far in this department, it seems they always wanted to go at it alone.

I have said this before too and been shot down in flames...it seems to be that Ford Aus have an excellent engineering department but cann't adapt overseas parts bin to local cars??? eg : electric tailgate, electric folding 3rd row seats, electric side steps , just look at whats on the Explorer that could go on Territory. I know I am no engineer but electric motors, wiring , how hard to adapt ???? ok guys, shoot me down again....

[Road_Warrior]

And again...you're not appreciating what is involved in putting these things in cars. This isnt some aftermarket or backyard hack job here, it is a car maker that has all manner of durability, NVH, cost, safety and all sorts of other standards to meet to make it work. So slamming the electric tailgate system from the Expedition or whatever it is into the Territory is more than just whacking a motor in, you'd have to redesign the tailgate and body pressings to fit all the hardware, get automotive electrical engineers to design a wiring harness to make it talk to the vehicle's system and hope the BEM will support that function, which means engineering an overall workable solution that will have to meet all those internal standards I mentioned earlier. Which means big dollars. So you spend your money on things you CAN do easily or cheaply, such is the price of using legacy platforms.

Or alternatively, go cap in hand to Dearborn and ask for a $600 million loan for a new Territory top hat to enable all of these things to be designed in, and they would have shuttered the place years before 2016.

If hypothetically we were getting all new next generation locally developed and made cars, they most likely would have been designed from the get go to have as much global hardware as possible, assuming you had the blessing of head office and an open cheque book. You can do that with a clean sheet design. Much harder with a legacy platform that has its roots in a different millenium.

I'm not making excuses for Ford here, i'm just telling it like it is. Yes I would quite like those retractable side steps on my Territory btw

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Or alternatively, go cap in hand to Dearborn and ask for a $600 million loan for a new Territory top hat to enable all of these things to be designed in, and they would have shuttered the place years before 2016.

If hypothetically we were getting all new next generation locally developed and made cars, they most likely would have been designed from the get go to have as much global hardware as possible, assuming you had the blessing of head office and an open cheque book. You can do that with a clean sheet design. Much harder with a legacy platform that has its roots in a different millenium.

But isnt that exactly what happened with each new falcon over the years? Head to detroit and beg for money? So Ford Australia lacked the foresight to incorporate existing Ford hardware into their designs, or was it cheaper to DIY , or was there simply nothing good enough in Ford's global parts bins at the time?

[Iggle Piggle]

Re selling Falcon in the US, I thought the yanks have a different standard for side collisions where traditional cars require more door/less window than a Falcon has due to potential of being T-boned by a pick-up truck over there.

Thought this is the reason why cars sold in their market now have much taller doors and smaller side windows. Really notice it in the wife's Hyundai when I go to rest my arm on the door, and notice it visually on plenty of global cars these days.

[Nikked]

Lot of talk about "Falcon to the US", how people say "I posted a photo of a FG on a American page and a few said they would buy one...

It's not just as simple as whacking sync and electronic start in the Falcon and expecting it to sell well over ther, we can't build them cheap enough to sell them as a reasonably priced product. Just look at the Commodore over there, priced the same as the Camaro.

The falcon needed big changes with the BA to even give it chance...Barra replaced by a V6, bringing the global drivetrain into the fold, bringing it inline with global developments...Barra is too big and bulky...

But when you mention V6, you are told to p*ss off, barra 4lyf!

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

But isnt that exactly what happened with each new falcon over the years? Head to detroit and beg for money? So Ford Australia lacked the foresight to incorporate existing Ford hardware into their designs, or was it cheaper to DIY , or was there simply nothing good enough in Ford's global parts bins at the time?

Sometimes it is cheaper and easier to DIY. Like the I6 for example. In 2010 it was to be shitcanned and replaced with the D35/D37 V6 but the engineering work and costs involved were substantial. Plus it would have meant shuttering the engine plant, laying off hundreds of employees, losing some iconic models (turbo I6) and still would not have guaranteed the long term future of the car.

Plus in the past decade there has been a seismic shift in the attitude from head office. In the past where they were happy to have regional outfits doing their own thing as long as they weren't wasting too much money (FoA ran substantial losses over the years but also did their best to keep costs down on new projects) whereas now the screws are well and truly in, and it is only recently where they have attempted to keep development costs down by using global parts but there is a limit to what you can use given the legacy platform thing I mentioned earlier.

Ford Australia simply never had the economies of scale to bring new and expensive technologies to market. Whereas say Mazda with the Mazda 3 are able to bring [insert ****y and expensive tech here] to the market, they can justify spending the $$$ to do it because they will get a return on investment from it being a global car being sold on the global market. Territory and Falcon had no such chance and the R&D spend reflects the size of the market they are confined to and the return on investment.

[Road_Warrior]

In fact I will go right out on a limb here and suggest that the FG Falcon should never have happened, Ford should have extended the life of the EA169/B series to 2010 and the money spent on an all new Falcon should have been redirected to an all new Territory with at least one (preferably two) spinoff models from it. LHD from the get go, corporate engines, etc, it would have given FoA a fighting chance at staying profitable and therefore staying open into 2016 and beyond by directing its resources to profitable and volume selling segments that are in demand globally. But, Ford's future is now its history I guess.

[XM-221]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

So you spend your money on things you CAN do easily or cheaply, such is the price of using legacy platforms.

This, is Ford Australia. Any way you can save them a dollar on parts is investigated thoroughly. Same goes for any manufacturer really.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Sometimes it is cheaper and easier to DIY. Like the I6 for example. In 2010 it was to be shitcanned and replaced with the D35/D37 V6 but the engineering work and costs involved were substantial. Plus it would have meant shuttering the engine plant, laying off hundreds of employees, losing some iconic models (turbo I6) and still would not have guaranteed the long term future of the car.

Plus in the past decade there has been a seismic shift in the attitude from head office. In the past where they were happy to have regional outfits doing their own thing as long as they weren't wasting too much money (FoA ran substantial losses over the years but also did their best to keep costs down on new projects) whereas now the screws are well and truly in, and it is only recently where they have attempted to keep development costs down by using global parts but there is a limit to what you can use given the legacy platform thing I mentioned earlier.

Ford Australia simply never had the economies of scale to bring new and expensive technologies to market. Whereas say Mazda with the Mazda 3 are able to bring [insert ****y and expensive tech here] to the market, they can justify spending the $$$ to do it because they will get a return on investment from it being a global car being sold on the global market. Territory and Falcon had no such chance and the R&D spend reflects the size of the market they are confined to and the return on investment.

Wasn't shoehorning the ecoboost i4 and miami 8 into the FG about as expensive and complex as installing the yankee excuse of a V6 into the FG? Why did they bother so late into the model run?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Wasn't shoehorning the ecoboost i4 and miami 8 into the FG about as expensive and complex as installing the yankee excuse of a V6 into the FG? Why did they bother so late into the model run?

I don't know, ask Ford! Bear in mind that one decision was made in 2007 with a lame duck yank president at the helm, the second in 2010 with an Australian in the chair. It would have been literally a case of different strokes for different folks - they each would have seen the value of certain things in different ways.

Then in 2011 you had someone else in the chair, and I would suggest to you it was in 2011 a decision was made that is still resonating...

Plus the $230 Million for Ecoboost in the Falcon wasn't just for that - it was for the diesel engine for the Territory and associated facelift, the new EcoLPi engine, and I would suggest some of it was squirreled away for the 201X car. Spread out over a number of projects. FoA are good at "driving their dollar further"

[spyman03]

Hey,

Have a bit of info on a few of the cars
Hopefully I'll get back on later


Spyman

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by spyman03

Hey,

Have a bit of info on a few of the cars
Hopefully I'll get back on later


Spyman

Nice little G6E Logo on the bulb cover/reflector.. that's some Germanic style attention to detail right there!

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I don't know, ask Ford! Bear in mind that one decision was made in 2007 with a lame duck yank president at the helm, the second in 2010 with an Australian in the chair. It would have been literally a case of different strokes for different folks - they each would have seen the value of certain things in different ways.

Then in 2011 you had someone else in the chair, and I would suggest to you it was in 2011 a decision was made that is still resonating...

Plus the $230 Million for Ecoboost in the Falcon wasn't just for that - it was for the diesel engine for the Territory and associated facelift, the new EcoLPi engine, and I would suggest some of it was squirreled away for the 201X car. Spread out over a number of projects. FoA are good at "driving their dollar further"

I dare say Dearborn subsidised ecoboost a bit too, as it's basically been a development tool for dropping it into mustang. Iron out any issues from flipping the motor round 90' and let those strange crocodile lovers down under sort any issues.

[spyman03]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Nice little G6E Logo on the bulb cover/reflector.. that's some Germanic style attention to detail right there!

Hey,
If ya liked that I've got a good shot of the xt front coming up later


Spyman

[turbo4]

Originally Posted by spyman03

Hey,
If ya liked that I've got a good shot of the xt front coming up later


Spyman

Anything of the XR8 yet?

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

I dare say Dearborn subsidised ecoboost a bit too, as it's basically been a development tool for dropping it into mustang. Iron out any issues from flipping the motor round 90' and let those strange crocodile lovers down under sort any issues.

Actually you are closer to the reason than you may think. Its now a case of seeing what they do with it in the FH. I think you will find that the marketing would be pushing the EcoBoost ..... especially with the double whammy of "As used in the Mustang ....... "

THAT IS ....... as long as they do stick in the Falcon again???

[dragons90]

Different motor
Falcons 2l ecoboost
Mustang the 2.3l ecoboost

[flooded one]

the 2.3l sounds pretty impressive in my book for a 4 cylinder, I reckon it will go hard, not as hard as the 5L but still for a 4cylinder!! just look at the 2L Eco boost!! just a matter of interest, is the 2.3L based on the 2L or is this a brand new designed motor??

[Auslandau]

Yes ..... same same but different. EcoBoost is the name, along with 4 cyl (or what ever cylinders they have) ..... the point is with the direction they are taking the 'Eco' brand and that is getting away from cubes as a marketing ploy. Powering F series trucks to Fiesta's, Mondeo's and Mustangs ..... with an EcoBoost engine.

[spyman03]

Originally Posted by turbo4

Anything of the XR8 yet?

Hey,

No but
Same as everything else just the bonnet and poss those lights diff LEDs

This pic of the white xt gives you a better shape/outline of the front

Just cropping and tidying it up now

Spyman

[XR8putts]

Originally Posted by spyman03

Hey,

No but
Same as everything else just the bonnet and poss those lights diff LEDs

This pic of the white xt gives you a better shape/outline of the front

Just cropping and tidying it up now

Spyman

Looking forward to it

[spyman03]

Originally Posted by puts99

Looking forward to it

Hey,
Just putting the copyright on it now


Spyman

[Bonn]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Err no, your calc is based on UK Gallons, which is different to US Gallons....

US Gallon is 3.875L
UK Gallon is 4.456L

I'll still stick with the original claim that FG XR8s and FPV 5.4s are capable of better - based on actual data.

Journo claims are based on new, tight engines, hand-built to micron tolerance, obviously going to be a bit thirster, so unless you've driven one for a while, put some decent kms on it and/or (in my case) daily commuted, it's hard to appreciate the reality.

FG speedos and odometers seem very accurate, and the bowser doesn't lie.

[stevefreestyle]

Originally Posted by wildrider

the 2.3l sounds pretty impressive in my book for a 4 cylinder, I reckon it will go hard, not as hard as the 5L but still for a 4cylinder!! just look at the 2L Eco boost!! just a matter of interest, is the 2.3L based on the 2L or is this a brand new designed motor??

The 2.3 EB probably is based on the 2.0 similar 87.55mm Bore with longer stroke 83.1 vs 94mm for the 2.3.

[spyman03]

hey,

guys here's a better over all snippet of the xt with the new falcon nose

a form of park sensor across the range, also note no L.E.D on the base model headlight, and it looks like ford have listened and put a clear repeater for whitch ill post later

and I've got one of the reported L.E.D strips nailed

note that I've heavy stamped the image just to hide some detail marks

anyway enjoy and hope it hits the mark to keep this thread ticking along


spyman

[au2000]

Well done spyman, well done indeed

[spyman03]

Originally Posted by au2000

Well done spyman, well done indeed

Hey,

Thanks butt gt-f has eluded me but like I've said it's mainly a bumper change and cow

Spyman

[turbo4]

Top marks spyman

[au2000]

we will see tomorrow !

[IngoStang]

Thanks spyman! Do you know of any major changes to the interior?