Covid 19 -

[cheap]

I thought masks were not effective against C19 as the virus is orders of magnitude smaller than the filtration capabilities of the N95 mask. C19 easily slips through the mask. Also long term use (many hours per day) does more harm than good. They are also supposed to a one use item and then disposed.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by cheap

I thought masks were not effective against C19 as the virus is orders of magnitude smaller than the filtration capabilities of the N95 mask. C19 easily slips through the mask. Also long term use (many hours per day) does more harm than good. They are also supposed to a one use item and then disposed.

While the virus itself may be very small it is spread in the particles of snot coughed up by infected people. A good quality mask (N95) will filter out all but the smallest of these and reduce your chances of becoming infected. Unless you have a particular type of job, such as asbestos removal,or in a high risk situation, such as a long flight. then wearing a mask for long hours is not necessary.
How does wearing a mask for a lengthy period cause harm?
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/41...-masks-prevent

[cheap]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

How does wearing a mask for a lengthy period cause harm?

They capture bacteria and germs from your breath and from the environment, becoming incubators for all the nasties.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by cheap

They capture bacteria and germs from your breath and from the environment, becoming incubators for all the nasties.

Certainly a mask will capture germs from your breath; that's the whole point. But if you're already infected how is that harmful? And the mask is meant to trap the lumps of snot coughed up by others. Would you rather just suck them straight in? Yummy.

Nothing works well if you don't use it properly and masks are no different. Like socks and jocks it's a good idea to change them regularly. I don't understand how mask wearing became political, it's just a piece of equipment to do a job. The sooner we get the right gear and start using it we can all get back to work. How did that become such a problem?

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

It is funny, in USA mask wearers are characterised as being politically 'left', barefaced people are considered to be politically 'right'.
My observation is that such stereotypes only work in the extreme.
I live in Atlanta - largely left but lets assume 50/50 - and at the local shops very few wear masks.


I have seen, only in the media, extreme righwing people vocalising their opinion to not wear a mask.
I have seen, only in the media, extreme leftwing people wearing masks while they (violently) protest

And that in itself is where the problem lies. A lot of the fear is coming through the media. They (or whoever controls the media) have a lot to answer for.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

I don't understand how mask wearing became political, it's just a piece of equipment to do a job. The sooner we get the right gear and start using it we can all get back to work. How did that become such a problem?

It’s not political. It’s cultural. It’s not the Aussie way to walk around with your mouth gagged, how are the whingers supposed to spread their sermon with their mouths covered.....
It’s like vaccinations and condoms, some people find them uncomfortable to deal with so it becomes someone else’s problem. Lol. Welcome to pandemic STRAYA, she’ll be right mate.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

...Where was the outrage in May when these ignoramuses protested all around the country?? During much stricter restriction conditions than the BLM protests? Where was all the media "hype"??

image

I'm pretty certain I saw plenty of criticism of that May protest you reference - about how selfish and dangerous it was, and no concern for the rest of the community...and that criticism came from the same people that then went to the BLM protests.

Whether any cases were spread or not, both protests and all other unnecessary public large gatherings in these "unprecedented times" where the "new norm" means "we are all in this together", are straight out stupid and dangerous.

You might think your cause is important and just, but it doesn't suddenly make a large public gathering safe.

[russellw]

The reality is that the original recommendations from the WHO and US CDC were based more on ensuring that limited supplies of N95 masks were available for front-line health care workers and (officially) the early belief that the disease prevalence was low.

Current recommendations from both organisations is that they should be worn when in public and they are now mandatory in several countries as well as parts of the USA. Current studies indicate that masks are probably of greatest benefit in stopping an infected person passing it on (which is why one-way valve masks are banned in countries that mandated them) but there is still a clear benefit to an uninfected person in terms of protection.

In Australia, the national Department of Health said on 9 July that masks are recommended in areas where community transmission is occurring and where physical distancing is difficult.

Another piece of interesting data coming out of the USA is that while the hospitalisation rate for over 65's is around 300 / 100k of population, the rate for under 30's has increased substantially and is now ~35 / 100k.

[T3rminator]

When you lose someone close, you won't be thinking that masks are weak nor freedom limiting.

Wearing masks when unwell has been done, voluntarily, in some countries for a long time. I remember a mate of mine once said "these bloody asians, they come to our country and they wear a mask, they think we are dirty or something?". I said "No, they are wearing one because they are sick and don't want to spread it". Generally speaking, it stops you spreading rather than you catching. HOwever, I imagine it could help reduce risks by limiting the initial viral load, which determines how severely sick you get.

If you are entering an enclosed place, JFDI! Doesn't matter what Joe Blogg thinks. Statistically it has worked in countries that wear mass en masse. Why are we even arguing, we are not being asked to wear one 24/7, just when we enter places like shops. Think of it has helping your fellow citizens.

I do wish there were better comms around how to wear and handle one properly. When I first started using one, I found myself adjusting it frequently, which meant touching the face. That could actually increase the risk, if say you are touching supermarket products, then readjusting. It takes a while to get used to. Also how to store it, like in the car.

[Mulva]

Said it earlier but will repeat the offer - if it gets to the point where masks are in short supply in Vic then let us know...will happily send some over to any members that can't get them if they feel it will help keep them and their loved ones safe.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Certainly a mask will capture germs from your breath; that's the whole point. But if you're already infected how is that harmful? And the mask is meant to trap the lumps of snot coughed up by others. Would you rather just suck them straight in? Yummy.

Nothing works well if you don't use it properly and masks are no different. Like socks and jocks it's a good idea to change them regularly. I don't understand how mask wearing became political, it's just a piece of equipment to do a job. The sooner we get the right gear and start using it we can all get back to work. How did that become such a problem?

The process of sneezing, coughing etc is your body's mechanism of expelling nasties. You don't capture other body excretions, do you?

Personally I do not wear a mask, when I sneeze it is into my clothing, keep my distances, have sanitizer ready, take vitamin D, keep a check on my immediate family's health and wash my hands frequently.

Masks became political when Fauci said they were not required and politicians took his advice and ran with it.

However months later whilst fronting a US Senate committee he went on to explain, there was a shortage of masks and seems he alone decided to tell people they were not necessary so as to preserve the supply for what he considered essential medical use/workers.

This is part of the reason few people trust Fauci.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by russellw

The reality is that the original recommendations from the WHO and US CDC were based more on ensuring that limited supplies of N95 masks were available for front-line health care workers and (officially) the early belief that the disease prevalence was low.

Current recommendations from both organisations is that they should be worn when in public and they are now mandatory in several countries as well as parts of the USA. Current studies indicate that masks are probably of greatest benefit in stopping an infected person passing it on (which is why one-way valve masks are banned in countries that mandated them) but there is still a clear benefit to an uninfected person in terms of protection.

In Australia, the national Department of Health said on 9 July that masks are recommended in areas where community transmission is occurring and where physical distancing is difficult.

Another piece of interesting data coming out of the USA is that while the hospitalisation rate for over 65's is around 300 / 100k of population, the rate for under 30's has increased substantially and is now ~35 / 100k.

Add to that, if I may. The authorities are now reasonably sure the "second wave" in Melbourne came about from the disease escaping from hotel quarantine. The security guards contracted the virus from OS arrivals; spread it between one another and then their families.

Had the security guards followed proper hygiene protocols the second wave may not have happened.

Had the security guards warn masks worth a couple of dollars, how much money and inconvenience would have been saved not having a second lock down?

Not to mention all the extra people becoming ill and some dieing.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Add to that, if I may. The authorities are now reasonably sure the "second wave" in Melbourne came about from the disease escaping from hotel quarantine. The security guards contracted the virus from OS arrivals; spread it between one another and then their families.

Had the security guards followed proper hygiene protocols the second wave may not have happened.

Had the security guards warn masks worth a couple of dollars, how much money and inconvenience would have been saved not having a second lock down?

Not to mention all the extra people becoming ill and some dieing.

So wearing a mask whilst partaking in sexual activities with infected people would have saved Victoria?

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by cheap

So wearing a mask whilst partaking in sexual activities with infected people would have saved Victoria?

No
Wearing a mask and doing your frigging job properly would have saved Victoria..
Simple. They were there to do a Security job not to make cheap porn.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by russellw

Another piece of interesting data coming out of the USA is that while the hospitalisation rate for over 65's is around 300 / 100k of population, the rate for under 30's has increased substantially and is now ~35 / 100k.

I honestly wonder if the increase cited above reflects an element of mass psychogenic illness. It seems to be a potential influence that’s barely been discussed.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by cheap

when I sneeze it is into my clothing,.

There's not much difference between catching your "body excretions" in a mask or in your clothing. The comparison between exhaling and "body excretions" is not valid anyway. To understand the difference go on public transport and see which you must do and which you must not. You don't need to sneeze or cough to spread the virus; breathing is enough, speaking, shouting or singing are quite effective too.

I've increased my Vitamin D intake as well.

[Charliewool]

Over here it’s simple... If you DON’T wear a mask, NO admission to supermarket, bank, hardware, or virtually any shop, anywhere.
Which ALL btw have a wash station and a Tico on the door that watches you wash your hands, then spray alcohol disinfectant on your hands.
It’s not that hard!...
Anywhere with a shopping trolley, they also spray sh it outta the handles after each person uses it...
A heap of businesses now are giving out custom masks with their logo on them, so at least some struggling locals, in their usual inventive ways are cashing in.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Add to that, if I may. The authorities are now reasonably sure the "second wave" in Melbourne came about from the disease escaping from hotel quarantine. The security guards contracted the virus from OS arrivals; spread it between one another and then their families.

Had the security guards followed proper hygiene protocols the second wave may not have happened.

Had the security guards warn masks worth a couple of dollars, how much money and inconvenience would have been saved not having a second lock down?

Not to mention all the extra people becoming ill and some dieing.

Are saying what I think you are saying? That the cause of the recent spread in Vic was the result of the security guards involved in overseeing the hotel quarantine?

You surely jest. I thought the outbreak was the fault of the Victorian state government!

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

This site has some great advice on the use of face masks, including cloth masks.

https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/face-mas...ar-a-face-mask

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by cheap

So wearing a mask whilst partaking in sexual activities with infected people would have saved Victoria?

Bring out the Gimp!

[russellw]

237 new cases for Australia 3 deaths so CMR rises to 1.058% and active cases rise to 2,448. WA recorded 8 while NSW recorded 13 and the balance were in Victoria.

1 new case and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.426% and active cases remain at 25.

The UK recorded 538 new cases and 85 deaths yesterday so the CMR rises to 15.434%.

Just over 65.5k new cases in the USA yesterday and 896 deaths sees CMR down to 3.925% and active cases at 50.9% but the raw numbers are rising. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
The USA completes 44M tests;
The USA has now recorded more than 60k cases 7 of the last 8 days;
South America passes 3M cases;
Asia recorded a new daily high with 59,894 new cases;

El Salvador (342), Algeria(554) and India 32,682 (in blue as I missed the new high of 29,842 yesterday) all recorded new daily highs, those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

An interesting anomaly is the similarity of case numbers between South America and Asia (~3M) despite the big difference in population with Asia having more than 10x the population of South America.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Are saying what I think you are saying? That the cause of the recent spread in Vic was the result of the security guards involved in overseeing the hotel quarantine?

You surely jest. I thought the outbreak was the fault of the Victorian state government!

I am arguing for commonsense solutions that may help as we all have to live with this for some time to come.

I am trying not being dragged into culture wars which are; tribal, nonsensical and not helpful in dealing with Covid19.

[cheap]

I have a mate who lives in Kenya, a population of 51,390,000 million, and 202 C19 deaths.

The Kenyan doctors have long believed that their BCG (TB) vaccine program has helped fight C19. Maybe they are onto something?

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2.../07/2008410117

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by cheap

I have a mate who lives in Kenya, a population of 51,390,000 million, and 202 C19 deaths.

The Kenyan doctors have long believed that their BCG (TB) vaccine program has helped fight C19. Maybe they are onto something?

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2.../07/2008410117

Kenya doesnt have a large stake on the world economy, so they aren't a high target.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by cheap

I have a mate who lives in Kenya, a population of 51,390,000 million, and 202 C19 deaths.

The Kenyan doctors have long believed that their BCG (TB) vaccine program has helped fight C19. Maybe they are onto something?

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2.../07/2008410117

https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opini...n-for-cov.html

Yes, the TB vaccine is being looked at

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by cheap

I have a mate who lives in Kenya, a population of 51,390,000 million, and 202 C19 deaths.

The Kenyan doctors have long believed that their BCG (TB) vaccine program has helped fight C19. Maybe they are onto something?

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2.../07/2008410117

Any Australian who has died from covid probably received a TB vaccine when they were younger though.
Oh and Sweden vaccinated everyone born before 1974, yet they have had a high death rate.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Mulva

I'm pretty certain I saw plenty of criticism of that May protest you reference - about how selfish and dangerous it was, and no concern for the rest of the community...

Yes, criticism came right from the very top. Right?

https://streamable.com/wahxz6

11th May 2020, PM on protestors: "It's a free country, people will make their protest and make their voices heard.."

5th June 2020, PM on protestors: "And I say to them don't go. Not because you shouldn't express your view, find another way to express your view."

[Tickford.]

317 cases for Victoria in the last 24 hours.

Jackpot!

[FPV8U]

Masks is a simple issue, if you wish to wear one, do, if you don’t wish to wear one, don’t and neither side should be throwing shade at the other unless of course you are someone who is turning it into a political issue.

Those wearing the masks are protected, those who aren’t wearing a mask aren’t endangering those who do if they work.

[Tickford.]

The virus is becoming unpredictable apparently. People are developing symptoms and testing positive within a day of contact with a source, when it is supposed to be 4-5 days minimum. DHHS recommends getting tested 11 days after coming into close contact with a known positive case, to get a valid result. Getting tested 8 days or less after coming into contact may give a false negative result. Only to be positive 4-5 days later.

People are still testing positive 2-3 weeks after initially testing positive. So the virus is either dormant and re-immerging weeks later, or people who have tested positive are being complacent after initial infection, and are getting re-infected.

You have to start to wonder.. if Australia's suppression over elimination strategy is actually working?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...ssion/12452660