Covid 19 -

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

So it gets even better, he choked someone with a medical condition who wasn't doing anything wrong

I think she walked 2.6km to far up Punt rd.

St Kilda to Collingwood 7.6km according to google

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

You'd be mad to criticise QLD on their handling. You guys have killed it, made the right call on the border lock downs despite being heavily challenged from the feds and down south. And now looks like you are going to take our grand final too.....possibly even brownlow.

It doesn't pay to get too confident. The outbreak in NZ is a classic example of how this can come back so easily. I haven't seen anything new on the NZ cases yet but I'm expecting it to be traced back to people who didn't stay in quarantine when they should have. We still have lots of Aussies overseas and every returnee is a potential outbreak.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Nah, that's just what murdocracy wants you to believe. Car traffic has reduced dramatically in the past week. Shopping centre car parks are now 2/3 empty. People are actually complying. Why is there no news about that?

Hopefully we are starting to see some benefits of the lock downs. 2 x low 300 new cases in consecutive days....it should deserve a mention but you don't hear about it....its only "record deaths", "deadliest day"....

The high death counts the last few days are only what we predicted a few weeks back simply based on the case numbers we were seeing in July. It's only likely to reach a peak over the next week assuming new case numbers stay down. Sadly, at a CMR of nearly 1.4% - which by the way is what the first outbreak peaked at - a day with 700 cases is going to result in ~10 deaths on average so the 3k or so cases in the last 7 days will mean around 42 deaths are coming.

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Reading the above - your assumption certainly does have merit - considering express post between countries can be achieved in 1-3 days

You've obviously not posted anything anywhere lately. We had an Express shipment (EMS) to Canada that arrived after 11 weeks and this was early in the COVID outbreak when there were still some international passenger flights. Express shipments in Australia are taking 3-7 days even from country Vic to Melbourne and NZ EMS is taking about a week.

[blueoval]

I still cannot believe they are calling 4 infected people from the same family an 'outbreak'.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I still cannot believe they are calling 4 infected people from the same family an 'outbreak'.

Man I thought Andrews was trigger happy. I get the conservatism but wow.

[Franco Cozzo]

There's been some issues at the QANTAS freight terminal at Melbourne Airport - they had two days a few weeks ago where no air freight left Melbourne over a dispute or issue.

Believe me I know when there's freight problems I'm the first one who gets abused

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There's been some issues at the QANTAS freight terminal at Melbourne Airport - they had two days a few weeks ago where no air freight left Melbourne over a dispute or issue.

Believe me I know when there's freight problems I'm the first one who gets abused

QANTAS terminal in Melbourne shutdown last Monday... its been a week and a half now. Had to undergo a deep clean... make of that what you will. Yes, as Supply Chain manager for my organisation I have been pulling my hair out for a week now in trying to implement a BCP to mitigate domestic freight supply delays out of Melb. I believe the international inbound terminal may be open now, but the domestic cargo terminal is still not operational.
Fun times.......

[russellw]

306 new cases for Australia and 17 deaths sees the CMR rise to 1.524% and active cases rise to 9,238. NSW recorded 22, Tasmania recorded 1 case with the balance in Victoria.

1 new case (with more overnight) and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.401% and active cases remain at 22.

The UK recorded 1,148 new cases and no deaths so the CMR drops to 14.875%.

Just under 50k new cases in the USA yesterday and 569 deaths sees CMR down to 3.165% and active cases at 45.1% with the raw numbers rising. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Russia completes 31M, France 5M and Japan 1M tests;

Albania (140), Lebanon (309), Venezuela (995) and Colombia (12,830) all recorded new daily highs, those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

[Syndrome]

Well as expected, it is only the elderly, frail and ill who are being killed by this disease.


https://www.health.gov.au/sites/defa...ugust-2020.pdf

[Citroënbender]

I believe one problem with the Victorian Government trying to promote pandemic-safe behaviour, is they’ve “cried wolf” before on things like road safety. So they’re starting from a position of compromised credibility.

[Bossxr8]

Andrews being exposed as a liar. Said there was no offer of ADF to do security work at the hotels, but there is evidence to the contrary with Scott Morrison clearly offering it in press conferences and via government communications.

This whole second wave basically started with this screw up. Take the responsibility for it you spineless weasel.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Take the responsibility for it you spineless weasel.

yes, imagine if the individuals who failed to comply took responsibility. Much easier to blame someone else

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by prydey

yes, imagine if the individuals who failed to comply took responsibility. Much easier to blame someone else

Yes I tend to agree with this. End of the day you can mandate and legislate all you like. If the self entitled conspiracy theorists and left wing bored Karen’s can’t see past their own agendas then nothing will work.
Personally I feel govco have done an admirable job of managing an almost impossible task to contain the uncontainable. It’s akin to trying to boil the ocean with a Bunsen burner.

The virus is apolitical and doesn't discrimate and doesn’t respond to policy. It responds to mass action and personal accountability. It’s really not that hard.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by prydey

yes, imagine if the individuals who failed to comply took responsibility. Much easier to blame someone else

People can't be trusted. It's been proven. Why give them the opportunity to run free out in public to spread the virus, rather than clamp down on them.

Kind of obvious I would have thought.

Relying on trusting people, is just dumb. Everyone knows people can't be trusted. It's all good to believe people can be trusted in a fantasy world, but the reality is very different.

If the ADF were brought in to do security, the second wave would not have happened. This is the reality.

Andrews has now be exposed as a liar. Why do you think he is lying? Cause he knows he screwed up and is trying to get the heat off him.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by prydey

yes, imagine if the individuals who failed to comply took responsibility. Much easier to blame someone else

true but it still falls on the top and those who delegated down to the ground force.

If each piece of the puzzle isn't doing their utmost 110% whats the point of it all in the first place.

Citizens no matter where a % will always not comply hence making sure of this in the first place.

An absolute fail top down.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

People can't be trusted. It's been proven. Why give them the opportunity to run free out in public to spread the virus, rather than clamp down on them.

Kind of obvious I would have thought.

Relying on trusting people, is just dumb. Everyone knows people can't be trusted. It's all good to believe people can be trusted in a fantasy world, but the reality is very different.

If the ADF were brought in to do security, the second wave would not have happened. This is the reality.

Andrews has now be exposed as a liar. Why do you think he is lying? Cause he knows he screwed up and is trying to get the heat off him.

ADF are just people too. And people can't be trusted, right? I'm sorry, boss, but I think the government have done a pretty good job. Could they have done it differently? Sure. Would it have resulted in a different outcome? Maybe. Maybe not. We'll never know.

Fact is, there are others to blame too. The Security company who took good money to employ competent guards to supervise those people who couldn't be trusted to manage their own self-isolation. And those who were supposed to be in self isolation but chose to flout the rules when they knew better.

Too easy just to blame the government, IMHO.

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

ADF are just people too. And people can't be trusted, right? I'm sorry, boss, but I think the government have done a pretty good job. Could they have done it differently? Sure. Would it have resulted in a different outcome? Maybe. Maybe not. We'll never know.

Fact is, there are others to blame too..... those who were supposed to be in self isolation but chose to flout the rules when they knew better.

Too easy just to blame the government, IMHO.

Have to agree, the people in isolation knew what they were there for but still found ways to sneak around. Its still happening and even more deliberate.

Is there any leader in the world that has navigated it to perfection ?
Even with that error, controls thereafter have not worked mainly due to 'citizens' that won't do as they are told/requested to do.

We cant put an ADF person outside every house, imagine the uproar

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

ADF are just people too. And people can't be trusted, right? I'm sorry, boss, but I think the government have done a pretty good job. Could they have done it differently? Sure. Would it have resulted in a different outcome? Maybe. Maybe not. We'll never know.

Fact is, there are others to blame too. The Security company who took good money to employ competent guards to supervise those people who couldn't be trusted to manage their own self-isolation. And those who were supposed to be in self isolation but chose to flout the rules when they knew better.

Too easy just to blame the government, IMHO.

ADF are trained, disciplined and have to report to a chain of command. If they make mistakes they are dealt with. They are not untrained cowboys with nfi what they are even doing.

And yes there are others to blame, but it starts at the top. One wrong decision at the top has now had a flow on effect and basically resulted in this second wave. It could have been prevented if not for this screw up.

[russellw]

Let's have some new graphs today. These look at the number of days since the 'peak' of each countries daily case numbers. It's a bit different from the 90th percentile data we looked at last week.

Those in red are less than 7 days since their peak; orange are 8-19 days and green are > 20 days.

First up are some Asian countries:



South America:



Africa:



.. and two groups of random countries, mostly Europe or North America

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

ADF are trained, disciplined and have to report to a chain of command. If they make mistakes they are dealt with. They are not untrained cowboys with nfi what they are even doing.

And yes there are others to blame, but it starts at the top. One wrong decision at the top has now had a flow on effect and basically resulted in this second wave. It could have been prevented if not for this screw up.

And I'm sure the government never intended to have the security firm use anything other than what I've highlighted above. It would be interesting to have a look at the contract to see what it stated the level of competency the security firm required of its staff for this job.

But at the top of what? Just because the government was involved, why does it have to be them? Why not the top of the security firm? Or the agencies they used to find the employees used on this job?

Seems like it's just too easy to blame the government for anything and everything,

Now, I;m not saying that things couldn't have been done differently or even better. But that is the advantage of hindsight. Remember, there's no rule book that is at easy grasp to lead those in government through this pandemic. And they would have also been under considerable stress throughout this whole process, which would make it even more difficult. I just think you shouldn't judge someone until you've spent a bit of time in their shoes. Surely they deserve the benefit of the doubt?

[FTE217]

yer nah sorry can't agree with the above.

Don't think anyone is pointing at the State Gov only ? I know I'm not.
Like I said, its goes through each chain of command not just from the top.
Every single channel where responsibiltiy is at hand is culpulable, like I said from top to ground zero < the seco company.

Can't get behind this we've never experienced this before as well, excuse, makes it even more important every single directive assigned by any Governing body to contracters and all Must Do's/Dont's are repeated 3fold or heads will roll for Lives and well being is at stake and its your duty being 110% switched on, if your not we can replace you.

Benefit of the doubt ? is this click bait.

[T3rminator]

Understandably lots of angry people at the moment. But be careful what you wish for, can't have double standards. Newmarch, Ruby Princess, aged care....lots of inquiries still ongoing. At this stage it appears there are failures at many levels including the feds, do we call for the PM to resign? Isn't he ultimately in charge?

Lies? Hard to say until we are presented with all the evidence. On the topic of ADF, one side said they offered assistance, the other side said it was never offered. I suspect it is somewhere in between. It appears ADF helped in NSW and QLD with transporting quarantined passengers from airport to hotels. They were not used to guard the hotels. Were ADF personnel offered to help with guarding or just transport?

How about we let the investigations complete its course.

Credit where credit is due. Dan has held a daily conference without a break for how many days? Who else around the world is doing this? Cops a barrage of criticisms, sometimes I think some of the journos are there to try stitch him up, and not once has he walked out on them. You can tell certain journos get more and more agro in their questioning when they don't get the reaction out of him. This morning a journo revealed that one of the security staff has been selling alcohol to dependent guests, she asked if Dan took responsibility........WTF?!?!

[FTE217]

The PM cannot be held accountable for State Prems, he can only advise and they take on board and act what suits their State surely you know that so moot point re the PM.

Hasn't it already been revealed the last number of days Dan and his coherts were offered the ADF and he with his fellow advisors opted their way.
Is this fake news as well.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-...ntine/12545146

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

It’s interesting watching this (CV) spread inexorably through Sydney now. I think it will be more difficult to contain than Melbourne. So long as I’ve got sufficient supplies for my projects laid in, and the weather is OK... Not looking forward to a curfew unless it’s 10, not 8PM. Restrictions on movement will be facing an uphill battle against the double standard here.

Re: the projects, yes get those all stocked up while you can Mr Bender, it's been the ray of sunshine here with all the Vic restrictions. Had a chance to start cleaning off the 302 this arvo, the young one was like "it's so blue..."

And trying to convince Sydney to restrict movement for the greater good, good luck in it's current form...

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by FTE217

The PM cannot be held accountable for State Prems, he can only advise and they take on board and act what suits their State surely you know that so moot point re the PM.

Hasn't it already been revealed the last number of days Dan and his coherts were offered the ADF and he with his fellow advisors opted their way.
Is this fake news as well.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-...ntine/12545146

Newmarch, Ruby Princess, Aged Care are all under the jurisdiction of the federal government.....you realise the feds have blocked ABF officers from testifying on Ruby? I only brought this up as a comparison to people saying Dan should resign.

"Senator Reynolds added that ADF officials agreed to support NSW and Queensland with hotel quarantine compliance on March 28, and that on April 12, Victorian authorities reaffirmed to ADF officials that they had the capacity to manage the program."

So it was mentioned on the news that the ADF assistance was only to transport passengers from airport to hotel, not to guard the hotels. The article doesn't clear that up. Hence why I think we should wait for the investigation to complete.

[Sprintey]

It's a little frustrating to think of all the OHS inductions I had to do (even: how to use a ladder!) before working on sites doing much less important safety stuff for the safety of the society - and when faced with a pandemic it may have been hire by whatsapp/5 mins introduction to quarantining...

The first Melbourne Punk band that writes a song about forbidden love and the second wave should be on a winner. Don't hold back on the lyrics. Surely the spirit of TISM lives on in Melbourne?

[Citroënbender]

“Greg! The face mask!”

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Can I put on my tin foil hat for a minute.
What is to stop people sending this stuff via the handling of parcels from one country to another? If you open something from a foreign country how would you know it was there?
Remember back with the Anthrax, people were sending powder in the mail. It was something you could see when you opened it.
Covid is not something you can see and could probably survive in refrigerated containers of food for example.
Takes off tin foil hat

CyberWasp....you may have nailed it, put that tin foil hat back on and tell us where to next....

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/could-ne...ted-by-freight

[prydey]

Sounds to me like some people would rather be welded in to their house!

Other states managed to do just fine. No ADF deployed in S.A.as far as I know. Not sure about wa, nt, qld and tas.

People seem to be fairly trustworthy in those states...

Play the blame game all you like but you can't have it both ways. If you want to be treated like adults, act like adults. Carry on like children and suffer the consequences.

[zilo]

A different perspective...

China has no problems using the military for domestic problems.

We should all use our professional soldiers to "assist"on demand?

What could possibly go wrong with that precedent?




When President Donald Trump offers military support ...no takers.

(cause little things can go wrong)