Covid 19 -

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Bill Shorten on insiders program pointed out that quarantine is a federal goverment responsibility as set out in the constitution. Is he correct or is he misusing the clause? If he is correct, why are all state premiers running the show? Can the powers be transferred?


https://twitter.com/billshortenmp/st...916886016?s=20

image

Bill Shorten ?

The worst Labor leader ever, and now a bitter a twisted old man 👎

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Bill Shorten ?

The worst Labor leader ever, and now a bitter a twisted old man 👎

He called Scomo a 'simp' this morning on ABC - I wonder if he knows what that means

https://junkee.com/bill-shorten-simp/266306

Simp is a slang insult for men who are seen as too attentive and submissive to women, especially out of a failed hope of winning some entitled sexual attention or activity from them.

Reminds me when an executive at work called someone a 'rock spider' without knowing what it means

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

He called Scomo a 'simp' this morning on ABC - I wonder if he knows what that means

Simply don't like any politician but I reckon Billy boy is right. Quarantine is the responsibility. of the federal govco and should never have been handed to the states.
Otherwise known as passing the buck.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Otherwise known as passing the buck.

This.

Federal Gov closed the borders, bought in restrictions and the lockdowns. Then handed it over to the States and Territories to handle it all. Then screamed and demanded State and Territory borders be re-opened.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Bill Shorten ?

The worst Labor leader ever, and now a bitter a twisted old man 👎

Put aside the messenger for a second. I'm interested to know about the constitution. On a side note, this stuff should be taught in schools. Rather than A² + B² = C² shenanigans.

[roKWiz]

Last time I visited Canberra, I bought a copy if the Constitution from the National Library.
I think the movie "The Castle" inspired me to buy it.
Its the vibe.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

This.

Federal Gov closed the borders, bought in restrictions and the lockdowns. Then handed it over to the States and Territories to stuff up. Then screamed and demanded State and Territory borders be re-opened.

Fixed. Yeah the Feds should have realised how serious the situation was and not left it to Joe Blow to self isolate on their return.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Put aside the messenger for a second. I'm interested to know about the constitution. On a side note, this stuff should be taught in schools. Rather than A² + B² = C² shenanigans.

No messenger required, Shorten would be the worst leader this country would have had. EVER !

[Danny]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I noticed that. But inner east is also very multicultural, mainly asian based. Box Hill, Springvale are usually very busy places. Thank god they cancelled chinese new year celebrations early this year, otherwise I don't want to think what might have happened. These are also high density areas, where a lot people live in blocks of flats. Surprised it hasn't really kicked off there, although Whitehorse does have a few cases.

Interestingly, all the "Karens" and "sovereign citizens" are not what you would classify as from the "west cultural demographics".

Tbh, I think it’s a testament to the Asian community, their already established mask wearing culture, and their experience living in close quarters with each other that Box Hill was never a major outbreak area. I live in one of the next suburbs from Box Hill, and the community there were one of the most compliant in the face of restrictions from day one.

Originally Posted by T3rminator

You do know Betoota is satire, right?

Yeah mate, I’m a millennial. Hence why I used the word “fun” when referring to them in my OP.

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Bill Shorten on insiders program pointed out that quarantine is a federal government responsibility as set out in the constitution. [/URL]

I'm going to go ahead and say that the detail in the constitution wouldn't specify quantine to the state level and I guess PO level.
I will assume too that this is referencing the boat people stuff, this what we have is unexpected although not the first.

There is some truth behind the 'sovereign citizen' statement compared to state government, federal law, constitution etc. . Not that this excuses their ignorant, inconsiderate health actions

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Danny

Yeah mate, I’m a millennial. Hence why I used the word “fun” when referring to them in my OP.

haha just checking. From time to time you read some of the comments on their articles where people complain about how the content is presented

Word of mouth spreads very quickly in the asian community. A lot of news were already floating around about how easily the virus spreads back in late Jan and Feb. I'm assuming this would have originated from people with relatives in China. My parents, being in the vulnerable category, went into self lock down straight away.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

I'm going to go ahead and say that the detail in the constitution wouldn't specify quantine to the state level and I guess PO level.
I will assume too that this is referencing the boat people stuff, this what we have is unexpected although not the first.

There is some truth behind the 'sovereign citizen' statement compared to state government, federal law, constitution etc. . Not that this excuses their ignorant, inconsiderate health actions

Sovereign Citizen 🤣

[gooseneck]

Originally Posted by Danny

I also find it duplicitous to promote the idea that for every migrant who blindly and defiantly flouts Covid restrictions there must be a non migrant bullying them into it. The issue runs far deeper than this, the numbers show it, and it’s not being addressed.

Immigrants are/can be very competitive, I think you'll find that they are bullying each other/family members pushing one another into doing things "or else", I think its a cultural streak of theirs. You also can't get a massive population like the 2nd/3rd world without a competitive streak going back generations.

At first I thought that this was because of their harsh upbringing in past history by their leaders and being ruled by kings but that would be being very apologetic. I think that most middle eastern and asian societies were pressured into having so many children because of the same reasons why our leaders/parents today in western society are pushing us into having so many kids, for money/profit. Parents came up with the idea and so did officials of all levels to pressure people into having more kids for more labor on the farm and therefore more money. But that idea has not and will not die anytime soon.

Speaking on purely academic terms here of course.

I don't care what race you are I wouldn't want white people being conquerors anymore than I would want muslims, jews or asian people. Fact is is that we're all living on a planet that is one specific size and doesn't grow or expand over time and we're going to hit a brick wall at some point and there will be a great deal of death and destruction.

I don't see anything stopping it. Aside from a pandemic maybe. And because I'm so unbiased I think every day of how selfish that thought is and why I'm any better than anyone else who isn't going to survive and why I should be the one to survive. Then I realise that I wasn't given a choice to live in a world like this the choice was forced upon me by me being born into it and I choose to live because I don't want to die.

Its an odd screwed up illogical state of global affairs and it ****es me off on a daily basis.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Sovereign Citizen 🤣

Here's one..



... a Gold Sovereign Citizen.

[russellw]

252 new cases for Australia and 17 deaths sees the CMR rise to 1.701% and active cases rise to 9,022. NSW recorded 5 cases, SA recorded 1 with the balance in Victoria.

13 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.356% and active cases rise to 69.

The UK had 1,105 new cases and 8 deaths yesterday for a CMR of 12.988%.

Just over 53k new cases in the USA yesterday and 1,071 deaths sees CMR down to 3.121% and active cases at 44.4% with the raw numbers rising again. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
India completes 29M and Chile 2M tests;

South Korea (279), Lebanon (439), Venezuela (1,281), Iraq (4,348) and Peru (10,143) all recorded new daily highs, those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Last time I visited Canberra, I bought a copy if the Constitution from the National Library.
I think the movie "The Castle" inspired me to buy it.
Its the vibe.

Teaching of Civics should be brought back to the classroom, every student should have an understanding of how the constitution works. One thinks if more people had a grasp of the rules and laws of the country and the levers of power politicians would be less likely to try on the shenanigans they're doing at the moment.

[russellw]

I see the daily report from Dan today shows 25 deaths so that will sadly set another new record high if it stands. Not unexpected but still a tragic waste.

[Tickford.]

That would indeed be the highest number of deaths per 24 hour period in Victoria.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by russellw

I see the daily report from Dan today shows 25 deaths so that will sadly set another new record high if it stands. Not unexpected but still a tragic waste.

Without doubt, every death is sad, no one wants to lose a family member.

Is it possible to get the age and pre-existing health conditions of those who passed away? I read last week a 30yo or thereabouts was classed as a Covid death, however there are rumours circulating he had stage 4 cancer? Would that be covid death or a cancer death?

[russellw]

If you go back a couple of pages you'll find the age and death data graphed for Australia. We had two in their 30's last week and one of them was a hospital doctor in good health apparently (although there has been no official word about either of the 30 year old people).

[LG17]

Apparently the 20 year old who died "from the virus" had stage 4 terminal cancer.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by Romulus

I read last week a 30yo or thereabouts was classed as a Covid death, however there are rumours circulating he had stage 4 cancer? Would that be covid death or a cancer death?

If you have terminal cancer but then die in a car crash.... What did you die from?

There lies the answer.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

If you have terminal cancer but then die in a car crash.... What did you die from?

There lies the answer.

Exactly.

I’m getting sick of people qualifying these deaths as somehow meaning less because they had underlying conditions.

It’s disgusting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by LG17

Apparently the 20 year old who died "from the virus" had stage 4 terminal cancer.

“They say someone caught AIDS from a teacup” - who else remembers those adverts?

Dry facts may be less exciting but don’t undermine credibility when shown up.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

If you have terminal cancer but then die in a car crash.... What did you die from?

There lies the answer.

You died from cancer, the car crash brought the date forward.

[russellw]

Time for a fresh look at the USA where there have been some significant changes in terms of the worst performing States.

For raw case numbers, California (+1) takes over the top spot ahead of Florida (+1) and Texas (+1) while New York (-3) drops to 4th and Georgia (+2) climbs to 5th. The rest of the worst 10 are Illinois (-), Arizona (+1), New Jersey (-3), North Carolina (+2) and Louisiana (+2). Remember that pluses are not a good thing as it moves you higher up the ladder.

Three of those (Florida, Alabama and Texas) along with S Carolina, Arkansas, Utah & W Virginia were the only states to have worsened CMRs - possibly as ICU capacity gets stretched.

Speaking of CMR, the national average stands at 3.11% with Connecticut (8.75) the worst followed by New Jersey (8.28), New York (7.22), Massachusetts (7.15) and Michigan (6.45) with 13 other states above the national average. On the plus side, 43 states are below 1% CMR with Alaska (0.66) leading the way.

The national average for cases per 100k of population is 1681.75 with Louisiana (2969) the worst followed by Arizona (2622), Florida (2607), Mississippi (2413) and New York (2343). At the other end of the scale are Vermont (241), Maine (309), W Virginia (481), Oregon (540) and Kentucky (873).

The national average for deaths per 100k is 52.3 with New jersey (178) the worst followed by New York (169), Massachusetts (126), Connecticut (124) and Rhode Island (96). The best of the mainland states are Wyoming (5.23), Idaho (6.84), Montana (7.55), W Virginia (9.0) and Oregon (9.02).

Florida (10.3% of cases and 6.6% of the population), Texas (10.06/8.9) and New York (8.2/5.9) along with several other states to a lesser extent are over-represented in terms of case number compared to population.

Surprisingly, despite being the retirement home of America, Florida is not over-represented in terms of deaths per 100k of population but New York is with 19% of the deaths and only 5.9% of the population as are Illinois (9.2/2.7), Massachusetts (5.1/2.1), Connecticut (2.6/1.08) and Louisiana (2.6/1.4).

Looking at the various trend graphs, some states are getting (or starting to get) a good handle on it.

New York had been on a steep downward trend since peaking at almost 11k cases on April 26th but that has flattened off since early June to now sit between 6-900 cases per day. Still too many but way better than it was.

New Jersey was seeing ~4k cases a day in April but that's been in the 3-500 bracket since early July.

Some aren't.

California only reached a peak a few days ago and is still recording more than 10k cases per day. Ohio has been getting steadily worse since early June. Virginia and Maryland only peaked 10 days ago in what looks to be a second wave. Missouri has done the same but it's still the first wave. Most States are showing a similar shaped curve with an early peak, slight drop and then a steady climb which explains why the country as a whole has just continued to climb in case numbers as we saw yesterday.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Romulus

You died from cancer, the car crash brought the date forward.

Seeing as a large number of people die from old age, if they happen to die in a car crash all the crash did was bring that death forward?

Seriously?

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Romulus

You died from cancer, the car crash brought the date forward.

Wrong. You died from a car crash in terms of the statistical data models. The cancer isn't even going to get a mention in most cases as it would not be considered a co-morbidity.

The guidelines are actually pretty clear and they apply globally in terms of which statistical category a death is placed in. It has long been recognised that there are some illnesses (like HIV and cancers) where the 'clinical' cause of death is pneumonia or some other infection brought about by the compromised immune system and the guidelines make it clear that those are recorded as cancer related deaths with a secondary 'code' assigned to the actual clinical diagnosis.

We may well find that there is some refinement in the guidelines in terms of COVID19 eventually but as it stands now, if it is present in the system at time of death then it will be recorded as the 'cause' with the co-morbidities listed as secondary reasons.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by russellw

Wrong. You died from a car crash in terms of the statistical data models. The cancer isn't even going to get a mention in most cases as it would not be considered a co-morbidity.

The guidelines are actually pretty clear and they apply globally in terms of which statistical category a death is placed in. It has long been recognised that there are some illnesses (like HIV and cancers) where the 'clinical' cause of death is pneumonia or some other infection brought about by the compromised immune system and the guidelines make it clear that those are recorded as cancer related deaths with a secondary 'code' assigned to the actual clinical diagnosis.

We may well find that there is some refinement in the guidelines in terms of COVID19 eventually but as it stands now, if it is present in the system at time of death then it will be recorded as the 'cause' with the co-morbidities listed as secondary reasons.

I'm not going to engage in an argument and appreciate the fact you've allowed me back on this thread. My point being, the statistics can be manipulated any which way one chooses according to the message one wants to deliver.

If it weren't for a car crash or Covid, a patient with a terminal co-morbidity is likely to cross the rainbow bridge sooner rather than later. CV-19 is forcing those with co-morbidities to cross that bridge sooner.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Robert Trump, aka 'honey' to his brother Donald, passed away overnight. Aged 71.

Cause of death.. undisclosed.

Was in ICU for several days prior to death.

Brain cancer, or something similar.

Get your tin foil hat off, he has had treatments for this recently, but it was unsuccessful.