Covid 19 -

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

That's an interesting 'You kids have it easy! Back in my day' flex from someone who didn't live through those times

Here's a perspective from 89 year old Nonna, she lived through Italy during their rise of fascism, the heyday of Nazi Germany, German occupation of Italy and the resulting invasion and fighting from both the UK/Americans when they came through as a young girl to early teens by the end of hostilities, the oldest of all her siblings which she was responsible for feeding and keeping herself and her younger brothers alive.

While the British were hiding in their bomb shelter Nonna was scouring the battlefield for dead horses to cut up or killing and eating people's pets that escaped to feed her family, or stealing what she could from farms and begging for food from British and American soldiers while caught up between four countries fighting a war in her backyard.

Yet she's absolutely against all the lockdown restrictions and is concerned about it's effects on our youth from the perspective of employment and inability to go out and enjoy themselves - she accepts her own mortality, that she's at the end of her life and it's not fair that she's being used an as excuse by a government for draconian measures, no one asked her about her thoughts.

So yes while I'm sure the people who lived through WWII faced tougher challenges, I'm interested in their perspectives on having their freedoms curtailed by their own government and what they think having lived through a war fought against authoritarian governments that killed an estimated 50M-70M people.

Does anyone else here have relatives who lived through that WWII period and are still alive to tell their stories?

Well Franco, my parents were kids during those times in Northern Italy just as you point out regards your Nonna.
Mum is 91 Dad 88.
IF I recall your Nonna and family live out of Melb suburbia.
Whole different lifestyle for starters BUT my point is my parents are polar opposite to your Nonna's POV.
By the way your expressing your POV through your Nonna, how do you know the type of background Russellw has ? yet you play the back in my day flex.
The youth back in those days came through its tuff times and the youth will here as well.
As for the variances of our States more so yours in Lockdown, thats nothing compared to wondering when a bomb hits your place or next door or a whole block etcetc....
What a stupid summary, sorry thats the way I read it.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

That's an interesting 'You kids have it easy! Back in my day' flex from someone who didn't live through those times

My point is that we need to acknowledge that we don't have it tough compared to our parents or grandparents generations but we are so focused on molly-coddling people who suffer a bit of distress because they have to make some minor adjustments to their lives for awhile.

Those who've lost their livelihoods and relatives have my sympathy but those whining 'cos they can't go out for a feed or visit a mate can go and do the other thing with my blessing.

Let me add that I grew up with parents who lived in London during the war and spent a lot of time with both grandfathers who served in it and heard plenty of the 'you think you have it hard' comments from them during my life.

They taught me an appreciation for the things we too often take for granted but also to face adversity with as good a cheer as can be mustered and while it might sound all a bit 'British stiff-upper lip', the fact is that they were for all intents and purposes 'normal' folk despite the experiences they had been through.

My own personal experiences, which you, with the arrogance that comes of youth, have no knowledge of, gives me the insight to call it as I see it.

[PhilT2]

I think that the comparison with WW2 is valid in some respects. At that time people lost a lot of individual freedoms and I'm sure quite a few complained about it. Most however saw the threat as real and recognised the need for restrictions.
I've heard some media personalities like Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt commenting on the loss of our freedom and they appear to be doing their best to convince us that this will never end and we will never get our liberty back. Their audience is fairly small and the number of people who believe their garbage is likely much smaller. Qld is 10 weeks away from an election which will be a plebiscite on how popular the restrictions are. I'm tipping the Palaszczuk govt will be returned.

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Typical extreme comparison that gets thrown on people who don't want to do exactly what the government tells them to do. Talk about brain washed.

And no i'm not anti-vax. Just want to know it's 100% safe and effective before i'd even consider it. And the proof will be in the pudding over time, not just in clinical trials that can be manipulated.

it sounds from what you've posted above that you're very close to being an anti vaxxer
Claiming that trials can, and inferring will, be manipulated and inferring that you'll magically know when it's safe to 'consider' but will ignore medical experts advice until then.
The Internet and resultant conspiracy theories have a lot to answer for.
Do you and your family get the annual flu jab?

[98TLS]

Originally Posted by Romulus

So what's the consequence of this? Kicking Ardern out of office would be a good start.

There's a flood of legal challenged going to start against Victoria and WA for their lockdowns.

Simply the fact there was a court case for all the oppositions rantings in NZ there leader recently announced she "would have no tolerance for Covid in the community"

[MITCHAY]

If nothing else this is a test of our resilience. It's tough as we are social beings and even worse for those who have lost their jobs, lost or been separated from loved ones, but people of my age and younger have not seen anything close to hard times generally speaking.

A huge amount of people volunteered for the world wars and I'd like to think if in the same situation now we'd still be up for it. But I'm not so sure given how some are handling this pandemic and life before that generally. For sure it is tough for some at the best of times but I think mostly it is not that bad.

We have numerous means of keeping connected even if it's not in person. Certainly nothing like that back then.

[Sprintey]

Good posts Russell, FTE, Marty.

My great uncle was Surgeon in Royal Army, came home one day to see his house had vanished in the blitz (bomb). Luckily family were not home at the time. The deprivation didn't stop with the war, severe rationing postwar, Dad had very few toys, they could hardly spare steel for die-cast cars, he remembers the shop shelves being bare. That doesn't stop a people. For me, I've had a pretty good upbringing and life, only the 90's recession when I was a young adult that presented any challenges but that wasn't anywhere near WW2 or the Australian Great Depression stories from mum's side, this situation is doable, 5 months isolation now for the family and we are OK. Keep calm and carry on.

Vic numbers under 200, those with no known trace 24. Geelong 109 now down from 180. This is moving in the right direction.

[MITCHAY]

Yes very good to see Vic numbers trending down under 300 last few days and now under 200.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by xxx000

it sounds from what you've posted above that you're very close to being an anti vaxxer
Claiming that trials can, and inferring will, be manipulated and inferring that you'll magically know when it's safe to 'consider' but will ignore medical experts advice until then.
The Internet and resultant conspiracy theories have a lot to answer for.
Do you and your family get the annual flu jab?

You couldn't be more wrong

Never said the trials will be manipulated. If you can read you will see I said they could. Big difference.

I don't personally get the flu jab. Don't see the point. Only ever had the flu once when I was a kid so don't see the point. I figure if I have gone over 30 years without getting the flu my immune system must work pretty well. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. My parents get it though.

And my kids have had their shots if that's the next brain dead angle you try to take.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by leesa

Your nanna is under the impression that the youth aren't at risk from this virus, but your nanna is wrong.

https://twitter.com/DipshikhaGhosh/s...43571197341697

Whats the CMR of under 30s in Australia?

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I don't personally get the flu jab. Don't see the point. Only ever had the flu once when I was a kid so don't see the point. I figure if I have gone over 30 years without getting the flu my immune system must work pretty well. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Or it's because most of the people you spend time around are vaccinated and are protecting you from infection. You're probably benefiting from the herd immunity provided to you by the selflessness of others.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/herd-immunity/

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Whats the CMR of under 30s in Australia?

I don't think it's known yet, it's still a bit early to know what the virus is capable of long term. If you and your nanna want to encourage youngins out to door to live their lives, go for it, but in a few years perhaps there may be some regret there if we discover most of them have been left with heart damage?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by leesa

I don't think it's known yet, it's still a bit early to know what the virus is capable of long term. If you and your nanna want to encourage youngins out to door to live their lives, go for it, but in a few years perhaps there may be some regret there if we discover most of them have been left with heart damage?

What do you mean its not known? Russell is posting CMR statistics in here every day.

Whats the infection rate of under 30s in Australia?

[Franco Cozzo]

David Limbrick MP has just finished speaking and now Brad Roswell MP from the LNP is talking now on the below livestream talking about the infringements on our democracy here in Victoria:

https://www.facebook.com/reignitedem...3100237248821/

https://www.facebook.com/reignitedemocracyaustralia/

There's a couple of MPs in the fight - 13:50 is David Limbrick.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by leesa

Or it's because most of the people you spend time around are vaccinated and are protecting you from infection. You're probably benefiting from the herd immunity provided to you by the selflessness of others.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/herd-immunity/

So the flu vax has been around for over 30 years has it?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

So the flu vax has been around for over 30 years has it?

Umm, yes.

https://www.smartclinics.com.au/history-flu-vaccine/

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Umm, yes.

https://www.smartclinics.com.au/history-flu-vaccine/

And how many years has it been common for large portions of the population to get it? Not many.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

And how many years has it been common for large portions of the population to get it? Not many.

Mate you're unreal. You ask a question, it gets answered.

But not the answer you wanted, so it's quick think of another one.

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

And how many years has it been common for large portions of the population to get it? Not many.

The furthest I could go back was to 2002 influenza vaccine survey where they surveyed 8000 people in the target demographic (aged 40 and over) and came to 76.9% coverage rate of people who got vaccinated.

https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/a8e...px?inline=true

If you don't want to get a flu shot then that's ok, noone is going to force you to get one, but perhaps realise and acknowledge that rather than your immune system being an unstoppable force, your friends/family/workmates/people in your community/etc are providing something of a circle around you and protecting you from getting sick. If you don't want to contribute back to that circle to protect others, so be it, but see it for what it is.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by russellw

Here's one back. Polio. How you can compare a 'supposed fix' for a bit of nausea with a life saving vaccination beggars belief. The amount of global scrutiny any vaccine that becomes generally available will get will make anything that has come before pale into insignificance.

.

My point is that Thalidomide had all the certifications of being completely safe....from all the research and due diligence that a profitable drug company offered.

That "little bit of nausea" had devastating consequences to it's victims.

You are advocating a medical experiment on 100% of the population.

Think about that..everyone gets it...if something is not right then all of us get the consequences of it not being "quite right".

If you can't see what is wrong with that then ...well.......what if the cure is worse than the disease....

It would add a new meaning to "we are all in this together"....

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Mate you're unreal. You ask a question, it gets answered.

But not the answer you wanted, so it's quick think of another one.

Cause it didn’t explain 30 + years of never getting the flu. It’s only a recent thing where the flu vax has been widely adopted.

When was the first time you got one?

[zilo]

Relative privation Fallacy.....for simple minds.

Originally Posted by zilo

My point is that Thalidomide had all the certifications of being completely safe....from all the research and due diligence that a profitable drug company offered.

There was no research or due diligence, there was no requirement back then for the safety of drugs to be assessed prior to letting the public take them.
The thalidomide thing was what kicked off the introduction of requiring manufacturers to prove their drugs were effective and had proper clinical trials before being given FDA approval.

I'm not really on your "side" (for lack of a better word) on this one but to play the devil's advocate.. a better example would probably be the contamination of the early polio vaccines.

https://www.tga.gov.au/sites/default...ine-041214.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/co...s-history.html

Mind you, that incident also kicked off regulatory changes to make sure that sort of thing doesn't happen again either

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Cause it didn’t explain 30 + years of never getting the flu. It’s only a recent thing where the flu vax has been widely adopted.

When was the first time you got one?

30+ years of not getting the flu or 30+ years of not having symptoms?

Studies are being done on people to determine how many of them are infected with various flus and whether they're symptomatic or not and they're finding most people get infected but are asymptomatic. Doesn't mean you can't pass it on to someone who will die from it though.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...034-7/fulltext

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...l-have-the-flu

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by zilo

Relative privation Fallacy.....for simple minds.

I for one am really starting to take exception to your “know it all, holier than thou” crap Zilo!
Seriously, is than any need to end your posts with continual snide, derogatory comments such as “for simple minds”?
Who the feckin hell do you think you are??

[MITCHAY]

My Google skills are failing me. Does anyone know where you can sign up for the vaccine trials?

[MercuryT]

Russell the chief admin, head chef or whatever needs a spell.

Comments ridiculous in this entire thread.

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Russell the chief admin, head chef or whatever needs a spell.

Comments ridiculous in this entire thread.

Are you for real ??
I don't know why he bothers coming in here and putting all the information up .

[T3rminator]

Looks like some people aren't waiting. Ready to produce 40m doses starting Nov.

Indonesia inks deal with China on virus vaccine supply
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/19...Uz51a1_lrCgS_I


With all these different types of vaccines going around, I wonder if countries will recognise vaccines that may not be officially sanctioned for use locally. If I have to prove that I am vaccinated before travelling to the UK, would they allow me entry if I have had a non UK jab.