Covid 19 -

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by ford71V8

This thread has been very informative and a big part of why is due to Russells posts.

Don't be so dismissive and rude. Pull your head in.

He was rude and unsympathetic to reality, not me thanks very much.

[PhilT2]

Lots of good advice on twitter, important first step before donning mask.
https://climatecrocks.com/2020/08/11...for-maskholes/

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

He was rude and unsympathetic to reality, not me thanks very much.

What do you mean 'unsympathetic to reality', I missed something

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

What do you mean 'unsympathetic to reality', I missed something

Saying people struggling mentally with Covid lockdown in Victoria are soft people and need to "HTFU".

People are struggling. That is the reality and understandably so.

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Saying people struggling mentally with Covid lockdown in Victoria are soft people and need to "HTFU".

People are struggling. That is the reality and understandably so.

I understand that there is a struggle in our society today because this generation has not experienced real hardship.
I think the msg is that people these days are softer and expect comfort and a freedom regardless of the 'reality'. We as a generation have never experienced this but if everybody done the right 'thing', we can get past it.
Inconsiderate ar*eholes that think they're right regardless of science is short sighted.

You can stay inside with your TV, internet, mob phone, food as you need, exercise is quite doable...and still they complain.
The infrastructure of the country was built by immigrants, todays 'australians' could never do what's been done in the past

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Saying people struggling mentally with Covid lockdown in Victoria are soft people and need to "HTFU".

People are struggling. That is the reality and understandably so.

You do realise that Russellw lives in Vic don't you?

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

You do realise that Russellw lives in Vic don't you?

And?

Just because he's coping fine doesn't mean people are soft and weak if they aren't coping in Vic as "not as bad as World War 2".

[prydey]

I'm guessing a large percentage of people arguing about having to stay inside due to lockdown used to stay inside a lot prior to covid and will stay inside a lot after covid. The difference is somebody (authority) told them to do it.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by prydey

I'm guessing a large percentage of people arguing about having to stay inside due to lockdown used to stay inside a lot prior to covid and will stay inside a lot after covid. The difference is somebody (authority) told them to do it.

My sister has major depression and lives by herself, hasn't coped at all not being able to see family or friends which was her outlet.

But she's weak and didn't suffer World War 2 as Russell stated, so she is so soft as a person.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

I'm guessing a large percentage of people arguing about having to stay inside due to lockdown used to stay inside a lot prior to covid and will stay inside a lot after covid. The difference is somebody (authority) told them to do it.

Absolutely, the whole lockdown doesn't overly effect me too much except it's taken away going out on the town, interstate travel and I can't randomly go out for a drive.

Not a big deal, hell I'm still working as normal nothing has even changed there it's still business as usual.

But - I'm against it on principle, the more you dictate to me how it's going to be the more I'm going to be a pain in the *** and the more I'll undermine everything

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

....the more you dictate to me how it's going to be the more I'm going to be a pain in the ***

Damn aussies.. sometime you need to listen and determine ...not just resist.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

But - I'm against it on principle, the more you dictate to me how it's going to be the more I'm going to be a pain in the ***

the irony being that quite often people that stand for these 'principles' as you put it, generally live their whole lives dictated by something or someone else without realising it. So many people are slaves to society/culture. Everything they do is driven by marketing or tradition.

Don't bow to government though, oh no. Too smart for that

[98TLS]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Absolutely, the whole lockdown doesn't overly effect me too much except it's taken away going out on the town, interstate travel and I can't randomly go out for a drive.

Not a big deal, hell I'm still working as normal nothing has even changed there it's still business as usual.

But - I'm against it on principle, the more you dictate to me how it's going to be the more I'm going to be a pain in the *** and the more I'll undermine everything

Awhile back read of your old Nana whom you seemed to respect,no disrespect to her at all shes sounds a treat her only failing might have been not giving you a thick ear when you went in attention seeking mode.

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

........ doesn't overly effect me too much

Not a big deal, ..............I'm going to be a pain in the *** and the more I'll undermine everything

Really...your attitude is a lot of the problem

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 98TLS

Awhile back read of your old Nana whom you seemed to respect,no disrespect to her at all shes sounds a treat her only failing might have been not giving you a thick ear when you went in attention seeking mode.

No, actually I got hit heaps as a kid for being a little ****, I got smacked, hit with the rolling pin and the wooden spoon a heap

The game has changed, respect is earned, you need to put in the work to get it, not just wake up every morning and stay breathing for a couple more decades and demand people 'respect' you and go around trying to dictate to those around you that your opinion is right and everyone else's is wrong just because you were born earlier.

The difference is you're living in a world that's increasingly getting more alien to older generation X and baby boomers, they have this ridiculous concept that they think they deserve respect just because they've been around for longer and that their way of life is going to continue.

I've got love and respect for Nonna, she's 4'10" and tough as a $2 steak, its not just because she's older than me, its because she's put in the work.

Do I respect Daniel Andrews position with Victoria? Not from the lockdown perspective, but I was one of the volunteers who helped get him elected years ago.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

My sister has major depression and lives by herself, hasn't coped at all not being able to see family or friends which was her outlet.

But she's weak and didn't suffer World War 2 as Russell stated, so she is so soft as a person.

Agree, I had to reply to this.
Been on the phone with a farmer client.
These guys are normally a happy go lucky family with 10 kids, his wife is a nurse in charge at one of the local hospitals. When covid happened they coped well but since this border closure, school closures and second round he tells me his wife spiraled down into such a deep depression and tried to take her own life.
She has been in hospital on watch since. He is visiting her everyday day there with a couple of their older kids. He tells me he has been battling the border closure as they have a second farm in NW NSW which he needs to attend to in between running the local farm.
he also tells me 7 out of the 11 beds in that psych ward are farmers wives.
I know these 3rd generation farmers well and are a pretty tuff close extended family but this is really starting to break them.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The game has changed, respect is earned, you need to put in the work to get it, not just wake up every morning and stay breathing for a couple more decades and demand people 'respect' you and go around trying to dictate to those around you that your opinion is right and everyone else's is wrong just because you were born earlier.

The difference is you're living in a world that's increasingly getting more alien to older generation X and baby boomers, they have this ridiculous concept that they think they deserve respect just because they've been around for longer and that their way of life is going to continue.

And that people... is why MOST of this generation who are under 30 years old... are THE most f**ked up generation to ever breath the world's oxygen.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

And that people... is why MOST of this generation who are under 30 years old... are THE most f**ked up generation to ever breath the world's oxygen.

Yeah, Socrates mentioned something along the same lines too over 2000 years ago:

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

― Socrates

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Lots of good advice on twitter, important first step before donning mask.
https://climatecrocks.com/2020/08/11...for-maskholes/

Yeah, what a beacon of good health she is. I wonder if she wears a mask in McDonalds?

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Absolutely, the whole lockdown doesn't overly effect me too much except it's taken away going out on the town, interstate travel and I can't randomly go out for a drive.

Not a big deal, hell I'm still working as normal nothing has even changed there it's still business as usual.

But - I'm against it on principle, the more you dictate to me how it's going to be the more I'm going to be a pain in the *** and the more I'll undermine everything

If the government had been the opposite and not locked anything down at all, let life continue on mostly unaltered and we had similar levels of infections and deaths as the USA.. how would you feel about that? Would you be saying that the government had let lots of people die?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by leesa

If the government had been the opposite and not locked anything down at all, let life continue on mostly unaltered and we had similar levels of infections and deaths as the USA.. how would you feel about that? Would you be saying that the government had let lots of people die?

No, I would welcome their shot across the bow of finally holding people responsible for their own health and wellbeing, if this has the ability to effect you then you self isolate.

But this is Australia and more specifically Victoria, we don't do self responsibility just draconian legislation backed by a police force that's the Government's secondary form of revenue.

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

No, I would welcome their shot across the bow of finally holding people responsible for their own health and wellbeing, if this has the ability to effect you then you self isolate.

But this is Australia and more specifically Victoria, we don't do self responsibility just draconian legislation backed by a police force that's the Government's secondary form of revenue.

Franco, you obviously have a hatred for Victoria and its rules...

Once the restrictions are over, why don't you move to another state or country?

[PG2]

Thread closed for the moment.

Everyone can have a break for tonight.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by PG2

Thread closed for the moment.

Everyone can have a break for tonight.

Seems like a sound idea thanks.

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Well your opinion that people are soft because some aren't coping mentally with Covid lockdown is ridiculous and I suspect very reasoned by people not willing to compare with World War 2.

That's not a reasoned argument - it's using a negative to rebut a point of view you don't agree with.

Originally Posted by MercuryT

My sister has major depression and lives by herself, hasn't coped at all not being able to see family or friends which was her outlet.

But she's weak and didn't suffer World War 2 as Russell stated, so she is so soft as a person.

That's a slightly better argument although it is still more an appeal to emotion than a counter but your sister has my sympathy given that clinical depression is an illness and merits consideration.

However, if you read what I actually said rather than taking umbrage at what you thought I said, you'll note that the examples I used relate to people feeling hard done by because they couldn't live their normal privileged lives.

... oh and let's not get too hung up on WW2. There are people all over the world living daily (sometimes for years) with war, hunger, abuse, wrongful imprisonment etc. etc. who would consider a few weeks of lock-down to be "sheer luxury" (to quote Monty Python's Yorkshiremen) while portions of our society are bleating endlessly about the Government taking their freedom or choosing to ignore the rules put in place for the safety of everyone.

I'm going to reopen this thread but if it continues in the vein it has been then it one of two things will happen: (1) it will be closed permanently and the only updates will be the statistical ones or (2) the offenders will be removed from the Bar completely.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Beastie

Franco, you obviously have a hatred for Victoria and its rules...

Once the restrictions are over, why don't you move to another state or country?

The housing thread shows clues, I've got a hatred for the sheltered workshop this state is, too busy trying to protect people from themselves at the cost of everyone else, the attitude is endemic through our society, you can see it from the dashcam mentality on the roads, everyone is concerned about what others are doing rather than running their own race. That's not really for this thread so I'll leave it there.

What I'm interested in is the context of these new infections in VIC - we're talking increases of hundreds of new cases per day in the harshest restrictions in the country.

What is the context behind the numbers, what industry do these people work in, what were their movements that lead to this?

Oh and has the covidsafe app started working yet?

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The housing thread shows clues, I've got a hatred for the sheltered workshop this state is, too busy trying to protect people from themselves at the cost of everyone else, the attitude is endemic through our society, you can see it from the dashcam mentality on the roads, everyone is concerned about what others are doing rather than running their own race. That's not really for this thread so I'll leave it there.

What I'm interested in is the context of these new infections in VIC - we're talking increases of hundreds of new cases per day in the harshest restrictions in the country.

What is the context behind the numbers, what industry do these people work in, what were their movements that lead to this?

Oh and has the covidsafe app started working yet?

Well said Franco, probably the best post in this thread.

[HIPO]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The housing thread shows clues, I've got a hatred for the sheltered workshop this state is, too busy trying to protect people from themselves at the cost of everyone else, the attitude is endemic through our society, you can see it from the dashcam mentality on the roads, everyone is concerned about what others are doing rather than running their own race. That's not really for this thread so I'll leave it there.

What I'm interested in is the context of these new infections in VIC - we're talking increases of hundreds of new cases per day in the harshest restrictions in the country.

What is the context behind the numbers, what industry do these people work in, what were their movements that lead to this?

Oh and has the covidsafe app started working yet?

Can understand where youre coming from..... i'm 62 now & the older i get & discover just how bent sections of society are, the more i question everything!

[russellw]

195 new cases for Australia and 13 deaths sees the CMR rise to 1.971% although active cases dropped to 5,358. NSW and Queensland both recorded 9 cases with the balance in Victoria. The Victorian weekly total of 1,600 cases is a further 34% drop on last week but the 106 deaths is 5 more than last week.

6 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.317% and active cases rise to 111.

The UK had 1,288 new cases and (supposedly) 18 deaths yesterday for a CMR of 12.761% although we know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines.

Just over 50k new cases in the USA yesterday and 1,170 deaths sees CMR fall to 3.091% and active cases remain at 43.0% with the raw numbers rising again. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
The USA completes 75M, India 34M, Brazil 14M, Canada 5M and Iran 3M tests;
India passes 3M cases;

Tunisia (131), South Korea (332), Paraguay (719), Poland (903),Ukraine (2,328) and India (70,068) recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

[Tickford.]

Victoria has 208 new cases, and 17 additional deaths in the last 24 hours. Death toll is now at 415.

The deaths include one woman and one man in their 60s, three men in their 70s, four women and six men in their 80s and two men in their 90s.

Eleven of the 17 are linked to aged care outbreaks.

There are 585 Victorians in hospital including 32 people in intensive care and 21 of those in ICU are on ventilators.

The number of mystery cases has increased by 82 and active cases in healthcare workers had dropped to 536.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What I'm interested in is the context of these new infections in VIC - we're talking increases of hundreds of new cases per day in the harshest restrictions in the country.

What is the context behind the numbers, what industry do these people work in, what were their movements that lead to this?

According to the current inquiry, 99% of the current outbreak of cases stem from the hotel quarantine although the figures quoted are a bit rubbery.

What we do know is that we have several 'clusters' this time around and during the last 14 days where there have been ~3,300 total new cases they have consisted of:

266 cases across 5 Health care facilities (58% at one);
740 cases across 10 meat processing facilities;
377 cases across 6 educational facilities (53% at one);
279 cases across 6 workplaces; and
1,712 cases in aged care facilities.