Announcement - Page 2

efgiar · 02-08-2007, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nommic

I'm guessing the problem with that is, the club didn't actually "exist" in a legal/technical sense. Something that doesn't exist can't have a president/owner/founder.

well of course it existed, since 2001, it was known as the e-series owners club, cant exist any more then that. its like you invent somthing, then someone goes behind your back and gets a patent on it when you have proof that you made it, created it, was the owner of it before them

mcflux · 02-08-2007, 09:22 PM

Please tell me I am misunderstanding your two posts Russell.

I'm gathering that AFF has approached the E-Series Board about registering the club. The E-Series Board has been either indecisive or inactive upon registering their own name, so the AFF admin team have taken it upon themselves to register the club?

Does this mean that the E-Series Owners Club name no longer belongs to the club itself, and it belongs to AFF instead?

It has been very gracious of the AFF admin team to host the E-Series sub-forums (which were created under the understanding that members posting were to abide by AFF T&C), but does that mean AFF can take over the club name?

I rent a house, does that make me my landlord's b*tch?

nommic · 02-08-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by efgiar

well of course it existed, since 2001, it was known as the e-series owners club, cant exist any more then that. its like you invent somthing, then someone goes behind your back and gets a patent on it when you have proof that you made it, created it, was the owner of it before them

Oh it has certainly existed, and we were all part of it. To us the club has always existed.

I think what AFF has done is make it a legally registered club. Something that can now be legally addressed by the authorities.

That's my understanding anyway. If someone wants to correct me, please go ahead.

**Polyal** · 02-08-2007, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

Please tell me I am misunderstanding your two posts Russell.

I'm gathering that AFF has approached the E-Series Board about registering the club. The E-Series Board has been either indecisive or inactive upon registering their own name, so the AFF admin team have taken it upon themselves to register the club?

Thats how I read it yes. Obviously about now would be a good time for AFF to clarify.

Im tipping once the new e series section is up and running, and not being abused or taken advantage of, then its responsibility will solely become that of who ever the e series board/mods is at the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nommic

Oh it has certainly existed, and we were all part of it. To us the club has always existed.

I think what AFF has done is make it a legally registered club. Something that can now be legally addressed by the authorities.

That's my understanding anyway. If someone wants to correct me, please go ahead.

Thats how I see it too. When a club becomes official ALOT changes, and you then have more responsibilities.

efgiar · 02-08-2007, 09:40 PM

has aff taken the liberty to register the rest of the clubs on this site aswell? or just eseries? we are the biggest club on aff. at a rough guess 50% of the people on this site have had somthing to do with eseries at one stage. so i dont understand why they have made the club an entity to achieve what? from my understanding where this whole huge uproar started was when everyone was getting banned for p!ss weak things, mentioning ex sponsors names from what i have heard, cant even say about the "other" site without it being blanked out.

**Polyal** · 02-08-2007, 09:53 PM

Perhaps something to keep in mind.

Are the people who currently own e series going to have these cars forever? Probably not. So, that means that your involvement in the club well most likely end once you get a new ride. Fair enough you might pop in now and then to see whats going on, but you wont be going to cruises etc or be asking for tech advice.

So thinking about the future, instead of past issues would be best for the club wouldn't it? The above format (politics aside) would help that to no end.

But at the end of the day there will be some people that are jaded past reconciliation and wont be happy no matter the outcome. If someone wants to talk about past members etc then perhaps the other thread similar to this topic would be best, as most of it has been talked about there anyway.

I see how my post would be seen as contradictory as I no longer have an e series. But I do have friends that are a part of it so I do care; and it is merely an observation.

StookEB · 02-08-2007, 10:09 PM

What Polyal has said is correct, it will be best for the future of the club.
Yes the club existed but never in a legal sense.
This Forum is run by the great people of AFF and they set there own rules for the entire forum, one sub-forum just cant change the rules to the way they want it. You have to agree with them, there is no exception.

gthofan · 02-08-2007, 10:16 PM

so theoretically, club registration would be available? that is monsters of cars allowed to meets/cruises etc?

plext · 02-08-2007, 10:18 PM

While we knew that this action would be unpopular with some to say the least, it has been taken with the view to creating a club which has an active controlling body which is made up from the club membership and makes decisions in the best interests of the club on a regular basis. From our perspective, this has not been seen to be happening.

As far as registration goes, offers have been made to the incumbent board to assist with and indeed pay for registration to protect the interests of the club. These offers have not been acted upon, leaving us to draw the conclusion that it was not going to be done. We feel that it was inevitable that registration was going to happen, but not necessarily by somebody with best interest as it was seemingly not going to be done by the board as it stood. It seemed reasonable to act.

We want to build a club for car enthusiasts who own the EA-EL series of Falcons to meet and share knowledge and experiences, without exclusivity or a propensity to downplay the input of members because they don't have much mechanical knowledge or indeed a 500Kw output. Enthusiasts are cut from many cloths, some just wish to maintain their vehicles, others modify and hopefully improve, neither approach makes any better than the other.

I will reiterate that we do not wish to control or dictate the direction of the club, we want very much for it to be run by and for the membership, with further discussions to be held with those wanting to be members as to how best achieve that.

89 S-PACK · 02-08-2007, 10:25 PM

sounds like a good direction....
i havent been with the club for long... so what do i know
hopefully it will put a end to the majority of the issues that has happened recently. and we are able to move on as a club.

sure i read the other threads, but i felt it was unapropriate to post as it was mainly the same thing over and over like a scracthed record. and childish, but thats my thoughts and everyone is allways going to have different opinons on topics no matter what it is.

JC · 02-08-2007, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by efgiar

has aff taken the liberty to register the rest of the clubs on this site aswell?

Most of the other clubs are actually incorporated first, and use the forum as a communication tool. The e series "club" is a bit different in that legally it was never a legal "club" as such as it was not incorporated, but now is as a result of AFFs action. I have been a member of 2 clubs on here (other than e series, of which I don't think I'm a member, unless the only pre-requisite for membership is owning an e series)

wulos · 02-08-2007, 10:37 PM

The discussion as to registering the club name has been raised with the 'unofficial' E series board members on a number of occasions in the past. Up until last week the E Series Club tag was completely open and available for any outsider to register as their own. This left the door wide open for whomever desired to register the name as their own and do with as they so desired. Be that for personal financial gain, or as a means to get back at certain individuals, or whatever.
The intentions behind legally registering the name is to keep the E Series Club name open and available for usage to people that are clearly passionate about their E Series vehicles, and to run the club at a professional level comparable to other nation wide car clubs. It is envisaged that the club will continue to grow, and make benefits available that would be impossible without it being officially registered / recognized.

oneredED · 02-08-2007, 10:38 PM

Quote:

While we knew that this action would be unpopular with some to say the least, it has been taken with the view to creating a club which has an active controlling body which is made up from the club membership and makes decisions in the best interests of the club on a regular basis. From our perspective, this has not been seen to be happening.

Plext, I can see where you are coming from, however I think the way you (again, I say that collectively not you personally) have gone about things is very sly. You claim to have "created" a club. That is in fact not true.
If you created a club for e-series then you would have called it something else (rather than it's existing name) and it would have had an additional section on fordforums rather than the existing section being taken over. This existing section was not owned by fordforums, it was merely hosted by fordforums as a gesture of good will.

This has been a very sly move on fordforums behalf, and the nature with which this has all been conducted is a very poor show of sportsmanship (or lackthereof) on behalf of the FF.com.au team.

Quote:

I will reiterate that we do not wish to control or dictate the direction of the club, we want very much for it to be run by and for the membership, with further discussions to be held with those wanting to be members as to how best achieve that.

No, you wish to prey on the naive who believe that this is still the same club they were previously part of. It is a completely separate entity, however you have used the same name and will continue to do so because of a "snipers" move of gaining the higher (legal) ground before anyone from the opposition knew it was needed.

I'm not here to stir trouble, but I do see straight through what has happened here, I'm not as naive as some.

oneredED · 02-08-2007, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Up until last week the E Series Club tag was completely open and available for any outsider to register as their own. This left the door wide open for whomever desired to register the name as their own and do with as they so desired. Be that for personal financial gain, or as a means to get back at certain individuals, or whatever.

As far as I'm concerned that is exactly what has been done, and it shows that you are all aware of it.

holmsy · 02-08-2007, 10:50 PM

im interested to know what it being registered club meens?
registered with who?
and what exactly does it meen/change?

got nothing wrong with the new forum layout. as said a parts sale section would be good but it could become to many sub forums and get crowded.

mcflux · 02-08-2007, 10:52 PM

JC, the prerequisite was signing up as a member via deleted link.

plext (EDIT: this isn't a personal response, I'm addressing you since you've made the post on behalf of AFF admin), can you elaborate on the view of creating a club which has an active controlling body which is made up from the club membership and makes decisions in the best interests of the club on a regular basis? What kind of inaction are we talking about? The monthly cruises and extra events which take place (such as the recent drive-in and Lake Glenmaggie camp events?).

As far as I was aware, the controlling body was made up from the club membership?

"Making decisions in the best interests in the club on a regular basis"? In what sense?

Damn right it'll be unpopular when the move is made without the consent of the E-Series Board!

Just because registration had not been done in the past, doesn't mean another party was "forced" to register the club.

wulos · 02-08-2007, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneredED

As far as I'm concerned that is exactly what has been done, and it shows that you are all aware of it.

Indeed we(as in AFF Admin / E Series board members) WERE EXACTLY aware of this fact, as was the rest of the E series board. These threats WERE openly made, by a previously banned E series member. Hence the reason for haste in this issue - nothing more sinister then THAT!

There are a number of other comments that you have made that I view as being quite aggresive in tone, and made in order to start an argument, rather then a rational discussion.

plext · 02-08-2007, 10:54 PM

oneredED, you are fully entitled to your opinions, but I would ask you to please not claim an insight into our motives. You are not privvy to all the discussions we have held or indeed the arguments this has caused.

You can think what you please, but you cannot claim to know our minds collectively or individually.

I will state again that we have acted in a way we hope is best for a majority, this may turn out to not be the case as nobody can predict the future. All I can say is we're trying.

EA2BA · 02-08-2007, 10:59 PM

Sooner or later the club name was going to be registered, and it was possible this would have been done without the majority of e-series members in mind. I see this as a step in the right direction and further chance for e-series to grow and become what many members have wanted it to be a real club.

oneredED · 02-08-2007, 11:03 PM

Quote:

There are a number of other comments that you have made that I view as being quite aggresive in tone, and made in order to start an argument, rather then a rational discussion.

Wulos, I would appreciate if you would please address these comments then via PM if you feel it is not "ok" for this forum discussion. I'm not saying these things purely to bait people, nor am I saying this with business diplomacy in mind, however I would like some answers as to why you have (in plain terms) stolen the name of the e-series club and claimed that it was yours to take? I only think it's unfair to members who believe this is the same club they joined, when in fact your are preying on peoples naivety to sustain a lucrative portion of the forum that may well have dissipated with the large number (read:majority) of key club members having to move to another location.

Scott · 02-08-2007, 11:28 PM

Atleast VE owners didn't register it.

oneredED · 02-08-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

oneredED, you are fully entitled to your opinions, but I would ask you to please not claim an insight into our motives. You are not privvy to all the discussions we have held or indeed the arguments this has caused.

You can think what you please, but you cannot claim to know our minds collectively or individually.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to express what I believe to be true. Whilst this may be based on misconceptions made by myself (I'd prefer to be corrected than be correct) I am at least giving you somewhat of an insight into how this whole thing may be PERCEIVED by others (members) who are on the outer and not privileged enough to witness aforementioned arguements/etc. All I'm alluding to is: it doesn't look good from where I'm sitting as a member.

mcflux · 02-08-2007, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneredED

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to express what I believe to be true. Whilst this may be based on misconceptions made by myself (I'd prefer to be corrected than be correct) I am at least giving you somewhat of an insight into how this whole thing may be PERCEIVED by others (members) who are on the outer and not privileged enough to witness aforementioned arguements/etc. All I'm alluding to is: it doesn't look good from where I'm sitting as a member.

^^^ I'm with Jared.

pHaT`eL · 02-08-2007, 11:43 PM

I second that. Looks pretty dodgy from where I sit.

Kenster · 02-08-2007, 11:52 PM

From what i known of the club and attachment to Ford Forums did a lot of help towards e-series alone. Yes lately there have been a lot of argument between members and etc..

Getting this place register may be a good or bad thing dependent how we all treat it and use our responsibility as car enthusiastic, so whatever happen to this place there will dedicated members who will stay by this place no matter. Hopefully members of e-series past and present will able to speak what they think and how we should work out where this place would go from here.

plext · 02-08-2007, 11:53 PM

I understand why you would be thinking that (collective answer to previous few posts) and further understand that nothing I'm going to say here will change that viewpoint.

To save going around in circles I will say that what our motives and intentions are will be fully borne out by what we do in the following days, actions are clearer than words in this case one would suspect.

If what we do is demonstrably wrong then I'm fairly certain that this will be made clear to us. Either way, we are going to try to do what we see as the right thing.

TUFED6 · 02-08-2007, 11:53 PM

What right do AFF, a totally seperate entity to the E-series club, have to make any judgement on its future?

Definately stinks.

bArNsY · 02-08-2007, 11:54 PM

Is the AFF considering registering the trademark "e-series.com.au" stickers as well?
If its going to be done, do it properly and don't **** people around, otherwise all i see in the end is the same fate as the ford inline 6.....

**Polyal** · 02-08-2007, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneredED

Wulos, I would appreciate if you would please address these comments then via PM if you feel it is not "ok" for this forum discussion. I'm not saying these things purely to bait people, nor am I saying this with business diplomacy in mind, however I would like some answers as to why you have (in plain terms) stolen the name of the e-series club and claimed that it was yours to take? I only think it's unfair to members who believe this is the same club they joined, when in fact your are preying on peoples naivety to sustain a lucrative portion of the forum that may well have dissipated with the large number (read:majority) of key club members having to move to another location.

I understand where you are coming from completely, but it does seem like a bold move, and there would of been reasons for it being made.

But now that it has been made does it matter if we argue about it? Will it be reversed? People are either going to agree and move on, or argue and get no where.

Also the saying there is no "I" in team comes to mind, just as a club is more than a couple of members regardless of popularity with other members.

Perhaps a clarification of the exact plans of AFF/E Series Board with future "ownership" and daily running of the club would ease peoples minds.

plext · 02-08-2007, 11:58 PM

The e-series.com.au name belongs to the registrants involved and as such is theirs to do with as they will, the name of this forum will be changed if the registrants inform us that that is their wish.