More power for Australia's fastest car

[Polyal]

This is so typical of GM..their in their own little world. It already had more power on paper than the GTF. So there job is done and there spending cash on a market they already own with no real competitors....on a car that wont be for sale much longer...cool.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Storme93

His statement does not apply to the XR8 at all, the XR8 is almost half the price of an optioned GTS, which means they are in the price bracket where owners are much more likely to be willing to run them down the strip or take them on the track

Except only one of those would be capable on the track...And it's not the XR8... You get what you pay for.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Polyal

This is so typical of GM..their in their own little world. It already had more power on paper than the GTF. So there job is done and there spending cash on a market they already own with no real competitors....on a car that wont be for sale much longer...cool.

All power to them!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by mcnews

All power to them!

I dont disagree, but they wonder why their balance sheets never really look flash. Im not entirely sure what they are trying to prove when they are already on top of the magazine kw war.

[Dash_XR]

Boot KW or wheel KW?

Don't know how people get so hung up on boot numbers when there would be hundreds if not thousands of GTS already on the road with more power then this thing will ever come with.

[nz13boy]

Originally Posted by Polyal

This is so typical of GM..their in their own little world. It already had more power on paper than the GTF. So there job is done and there spending cash on a market they already own with no real competitors....on a car that wont be for sale much longer...cool.

Competing against Fpv Isnt their "market". And hasn't been their hunting ground for a while now. Something Hsv themselves had said time and again. And why would you when you look at Hsv sales figires compared to the rather shyte former sales figures of Fpvs. They have consistantly said that they aim to compete with Amg, Rs and M power cars. With a far superior bang for buck compared with those big boys.

Fpv are finished, Hsv have said they wont be going anywhere.

It was ok for Fpv to Finnish with some tweaks to the Gt which amounted to some stickers, stripes, badge and a retune and very little else. Hsv announce they intend do something as a last horah and that amounts to wasting money?

People on here winge about how Ford should have done this, that and the other thing with the Fpvs they sold to make them a complete performance car but at the end of the day its just same ole, same ole. SHOULDA, COULDA, WOULDA BUT DIDNTNA.

WHEN HSV do this, that and everything to their car the same ole excuses are dragged out to bag them. They have more money, better chassis, better tyres blah blah blah.

Its like bloody Ground hog day reading some of posts on here.

[new2ford]

After a bit of digging around I think I've got to the facts about maximum speed of "Australia's fastest car" - after all, isn't that what "fastest car" is supposed to mean? (Or am I being politically incorrect and missing something?)

Apparently, while some of its European counterparts are capable of 300 km/h, the HSV has been electronically limited to 250 due to a "GM global policy".

From here, even Skoda's global policy looks better:

http://www.carshowroom.com.au/news/s...-speed-record/

I've got three 4 cylinder cars in the garage each capable of 200 and, while they may be a bit slower off the mark, they go around corners very well and are generally very good at maximising average speed which is what you need when you live under nanny regimes.

So, tell me, what exactly is this Holden piece of metal about, celebrating the last dinosaur?

[Beastie]

Here is Ford's answer

http://www.news.com.au/technology/in...-1227414837133

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by The Beast

Here is Ford's answer

http://www.news.com.au/technology/in...-1227414837133

Well there you go - there's the average speed factor at work!

Nowadays they can electronically reproduce the sound and feeling of a V8 under the bonnet (Playstation technology) - wonder why nobody has tried that yet.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by nz13boy

Competing against Fpv Isnt their "market". And hasn't been their hunting ground for a while now. Something Hsv themselves had said time and again. And why would you when you look at Hsv sales figires compared to the rather shyte former sales figures of Fpvs. They have consistantly said that they aim to compete with Amg, Rs and M power cars. With a far superior bang for buck compared with those big boys.

Fpv are finished, Hsv have said they wont be going anywhere.

It was ok for Fpv to Finnish with some tweaks to the Gt which amounted to some stickers, stripes, badge and a retune and very little else. Hsv announce they intend do something as a last horah and that amounts to wasting money?

People on here winge about how Ford should have done this, that and the other thing with the Fpvs they sold to make them a complete performance car but at the end of the day its just same ole, same ole. SHOULDA, COULDA, WOULDA BUT DIDNTNA.

WHEN HSV do this, that and everything to their car the same ole excuses are dragged out to bag them. They have more money, better chassis, better tyres blah blah blah.

Its like bloody Ground hog day reading some of posts on here.

Ah so you believe the rubbish they sprout too. Of course they say things like that, they were trying to up their image in the light of AMG sales soaring in the hope that some would look at them and not go with something more "exotic".

HSV and FPV are direct competitors...you cant cut that any other way. No one else really does sub $100k full sized sedan with the performance they have unless you start looking at STi and even then thats a mid sizer.

edit: sorry SRT is another

Its the same marketing spin as Ford for FTE in the day with T1/T2. They knew they were outgunned with the engine vs the LS1 so they change their whole marketing effort and style the cars subtly and sprout that the market wants a more refined car...BS..they didn't have a good enough engine.

Along comes T3 and their tune changes...and then BA GT even more so.

If the GTS with 430kws now still isnt grabbing the AMG and M market then how is adding more kws making any difference to anything? On a car that is dead in a couple of years.

But fanboi's love the media beat ups, so run with it if you want.

It is true they run their business better than FTE/FPV, they made choices such as crating engines in to save costs so they could spend more on cosmetic, gizmo's etc....but the net result is going to be the same, their just spending more money doing it.

[nz13boy]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Ah so you believe the rubbish they sprout too. Of course they say things like that, they were trying to up their image in the light of AMG sales soaring in the hope that some would look at them and not go with something more "exotic".

HSV and FPV are direct competitors...you cant cut that any other way. No one else really does sub $100k full sized sedan with the performance they have unless you start looking at STi and even then thats a mid sizer.

edit: sorry SRT is another

Its the same marketing spin as Ford for FTE in the day with T1/T2. They knew they were outgunned with the engine vs the LS1 so they change their whole marketing effort and style the cars subtly and sprout that the market wants a more refined car...BS..they didn't have a good enough engine.

Along comes T3 and their tune changes...and then BA GT even more so.

If the GTS with 430kws now still isnt grabbing the AMG and M market then how is adding more kws making any difference to anything? On a car that is dead in a couple of years.

But fanboi's love the media beat ups, so run with it if you want.

It is true they run their business better than FTE/FPV, they made choices such as crating engines in to save costs so they could spend more on cosmetic, gizmo's etc....but the net result is going to be the same, their just spending more money doing it.

Haha, yeah I suppose I do listen to the sales pitches to some degree. Dosent everyone? Dosent mean what they said isn't true.

That said though, Hsv is in a different league compared to Fpv when it comes to Marketing, Promoting, Sales and End Product.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by new2ford

After a bit of digging around I think I've got to the facts about maximum speed of "Australia's fastest car" - after all, isn't that what "fastest car" is supposed to mean? (Or am I being politically incorrect and missing something?)

Apparently, while some of its European counterparts are capable of 300 km/h, the HSV has been electronically limited to 250 due to a "GM global policy".

From here, even Skoda's global policy looks better:

http://www.carshowroom.com.au/news/s...-speed-record/

I've got three 4 cylinder cars in the garage each capable of 200 and, while they may be a bit slower off the mark, they go around corners very well and are generally very good at maximising average speed which is what you need when you live under nanny regimes.

So, tell me, what exactly is this Holden piece of metal about, celebrating the last dinosaur?

You got a few facts wrong here - almost all euro manufacturers limit top speed to 250km/h . It is a bit of a gentlemans agreement like old 206kW Max in Japanese market was.
4 cyl car redlining and shaking to 200 km/h is not the same as powerfull performance car doing it with ease and being much more than "just a bit slower off the mark ".
Maloo officially recorded 271 km/h run in 2006 - It would not be a big surprise for current car to go over 300. Try that in your 4 cyl average speed monster ;-)

[sprintman1]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Yes, definitely more "chuckable", but how many 2nd hand BMWs have you owned.

An M3 is not a cheap car to maintain.

Dr Terry

One and I know how to look after 'em (stay well away from stealership)

[Beastie]

Not a Ford or Holden, but is this the future?

http://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/nissan-announces-the-juke-r-20-supercar-killer-at-goodwood-festival-of-speed/story-fnjwucvh-1227415759829

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

You got a few facts wrong here - almost all euro manufacturers limit top speed to 250km/h . It is a bit of a gentlemans agreement like old 206kW Max in Japanese market was.
4 cyl car redlining and shaking to 200 km/h is not the same as powerfull performance car doing it with ease and being much more than "just a bit slower off the mark ".
Maloo officially recorded 271 km/h run in 2006 - It would not be a big surprise for current car to go over 300. Try that in your 4 cyl average speed monster ;-)

Ah yes, but when you have powers that be restricting you to 110 km/h, it's the story of the hare and the tortoise isn't it!

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Polyal

. Im not entirely sure what they are trying to prove when they are already on top of the magazine kw war.

Same resaon a dog licks it *@11s. Because it can.

I reckon its great that a skunkworks division is constantly pushing the boundaries, its the reason they exist.
There is nothing bad about this, i dont understand the negative sentiment ?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by nz13boy

Competing against Fpv Isnt their "market". And hasn't been their hunting ground for a while now. Something Hsv themselves had said time and again. And why would you when you look at Hsv sales figires compared to the rather shyte former sales figures of Fpvs. They have consistantly said that they aim to compete with Amg, Rs and M power cars. With a far superior bang for buck compared with those big boys.

Fpv are finished, Hsv have said they wont be going anywhere.

It was ok for Fpv to Finnish with some tweaks to the Gt which amounted to some stickers, stripes, badge and a retune and very little else. Hsv announce they intend do something as a last horah and that amounts to wasting money?

HSV won't last long. Selling tarted up Insignias with V6's is hardly going to get your HSV fanboi ready to open his wallet. They will wither into insignificance.

[ST]

You have to make 430kw in the first place before you can go above it.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Polyal

HSV and FPV are direct competitors...you cant cut that any other way. No one else really does sub $100k full sized sedan with the performance they have unless you start looking at STi and even then thats a mid sizer.

.

Umm wtf you smoking? There is no FPV! Just in case you missed that thread.

[flooded one]

meh, the FPV Falcon GT-F has the better muscle car appeal to me. A muscle car is powerful and scares the **** out of most people. not has all the ****y better handling things. I have to laugh at people that say the Falcon should have this and that because the HSV has it, yet will rant and rave about how good the GTHO phase III was, yet it wasnt known for how great it handled now was it??

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by nz13boy

Haha, yeah I suppose I do listen to the sales pitches to some degree. Dosent everyone? Dosent mean what they said isn't true.

That said though, Hsv is in a different league compared to Fpv when it comes to Marketing, Promoting, Sales and End Product.

Huh??? Maybe there's been ONE of HSVs cars that's in another bracket......but it's also in another price bracket as well. Just because the last HSV is 100k, doesn't mean all of a sudden it's in the euro bracket that's absolute tripe!
Let's see what happens when HSVs are rebadged Chinese saloons......wow their legit euro competition lasted about 2 seconds

The cars we have at our fingers in no way reflects who their target opposition is....it more likely shows how each company has chosen to exit Australian manufacturing.
And that quoted Focus V Xr8 article is so funny. Haven't they heard of the Mustang? Why do they think the Focus is our only option if we want a sporty ford drive in Aus?

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by wildrider

meh, the FPV Falcon GT-F has the better muscle car appeal to me. A muscle car is powerful and scares the **** out of most people. not has all the ****y better handling things. I have to laugh at people that say the Falcon should have this and that because the HSV has it, yet will rant and rave about how good the GTHO phase III was, yet it wasnt known for how great it handled now was it??

The GT-F is obviously a good fit for you.

For many others I would have thought the truth would be closer to most buyers these days are looking for cars that offer as much as possible for their dollar, therefore muscle cars as such have a very small audience.

In the 1970’s when the Phase 3 was king not many V8 powered cars being sold here were known for their handling, so it had nothing to worry about on that score.

I also agree the GTS is not Euro high performance standard.

Sure it has speed and power and kills them on price but not the finesse, fit and finish or innovative technology.

On a level below the same can be said for the GT-F.

It has the speed and power and is well priced against the GTS but not the 10/10 tenths handling or in-cabin gadgetry or driveline tech.

The market for the GF-F and XR8 for that matter is small as most people aren’t interested in power and of those that are, most of them also like to have a little cake with their tea if they can get it.

[nz13boy]

Huh??? Maybe there's been ONE of HSVs cars that's in another bracket......but it's also in another price bracket as well. Just because the last HSV is 100k, doesn't mean all of a sudden it's in the euro bracket that's absolute tripe!

What on earth was that jibba jabba you just wrote haha? I neva said anything about 100k, and selling Hsv @that price makes them part of the euro bracket. I said, if you bothered to READ IT, Hsv have said they were going after the Amgs etc, ....And just because you say they arent, dosent mean they arent close. Where ever they are on the performance car hierarchy, they are MILES AHEAD OF FPV AND FORD. And if your going to rebut something I said, no drama. But at least put up the correct quote lol. AND READ what I said first. The technical term is called, comprehension. Js.

As for your price bracket argument, they are in another price bracket for numerous reasons. Most of which are pretty OBVIOUS TO ANYONE WHOS NOT ONE-EYED. Tech, handling, speed, performance yada, yada. They sell **** loads of them at that price so why would they do something stupid like ford did when it sold the GTF for a pittance. Market says people will pay 100k for a Hsv, so thats what they sell them for. Just as the market has a GTF Now @100k or there abouts. Funny how supply and demand works. No difference in the price of a GTS vs GTF if you purchased one now is there?

"Let's see what happens when HSVs are rebadged Chinese saloons......wow their legit euro competition lasted about 2 seconds."

Thats still two seconds closer than FPV ever got......

[tapeworm]

That Commodore is never going to be a euro contender. just look at the thing. HSV sound like a bunch flogs trying to put themselves in an upper league

Also, it's childish but GT-F is Australia's most powerful..

[FTE]

HSV and FPV weren't competitors in the bean counter world, meaning they based that on where their trades were coming from. Not many were from the opposite brand. They were either from within or from ex imported car buyers (European or Japanese) Not many buyers came from FPV to HSV (or vice versa).
People growing up seeing Holden and Ford naturally look at them as competitors but technically (or sales wise) they weren't

[1TUFFUTE]

"Let's see what happens when HSVs are rebadged Chinese saloons......wow their legit euro competition lasted about 2 seconds."

Thats still two seconds closer than FPV ever got......[/QUOTE]nz13boy

Not only has Ford or Fpv never been so lame to say they are competing with the euros...they also have never been anywhere near their price bracket.

And my other comments were reflecting your previous comments and the fact that he last Fords were done on a shoe string budget by a company that knows they're leaving. HSV are kidding themselves, they'd need to be building high quality performance cars for the next 20 years to get the credibility to compare them selves with europes elite. Not just one model that only competes in performance and value.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Umm wtf you smoking? There is no FPV! Just in case you missed that thread.

Obviously what your on is stronger than mine....ford/fpv/fte who cares it's the same stuff.

[Stefan]

You seem a little miffed by this...the gtf being more powerful but slower is IMO nothing to be overly exited about.

HSV will take the mantel, as a Ford enthusiast does it matter? It was always going to happen considering Holden were sticking around a little longer.

Why make improvement despite no competitor, sales! Why upgade from your current HSV if there are no improvements?

[jasen]

Whilst the gtf made around 10KW more at peak power... (around 5500rpm)
The gts made around 20kw more right up to that point. There was a dynograph floating aroung from the first test showing that Drive?
Ho would of gest that with 5L DOHC vs 6.2 OHV.

[rjk74]

For such a low volume seller in a small market I reckon the GTF was a fitting end to a great car, Hsv can spend themselves to death I don't care, I've given up debating the merits of both to the fanboys, I know which one i'd rather have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFTZunJ4BMk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zVTMAOiL-8