Yet ANOTHER fatal crash invloving a young driver.

[GXL078]

Originally Posted by matsbafairmontghia

Consider this, last night a 61 year old died in a crash too (http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/re...YUlEPTc5Nzg%3D)

Man dies in crash - Hunter Valley

7 November 2006

Singleton Police are preparing a report for the Coroner after a man died in a single-vehicle crash last night.

The crash happened about 5.45pm when the white Mitsubishi Pajero travelling south ran off the road and struck a rock wall on the Putty Road about 38km south of Singleton.

A 61-year-old man was assisted by passers-by until ambulance officers arrived but he died at the scene.

Two small dogs in the vehicle at the time of the crash sustained minor injuries and were taken to an animal hospital for treatment.

The Putty Road was closed till 8pm while police completed their examination of the scene.

The driver is believed to have been from Muswellbrook.

I dont think this bloke was a P Plater. Definately wasnt young. Thought it was worth mentioning given that all the emphasis seems to be on young drivers these days

Just maybe he was ****ed.

[BeStRaFe]

ah young p-plates in their commies.....
alot of run to sit at the lights... revving...
they do the same and them go tearing off... and i just putter away

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by smiley

Oh man, after seeing that pic, i've seen what has happenned to people's bodies in lesser accidents than that and it is utterly shocking, maybe, they could set a campaign on TV where they release these images yet sensor the dismembered parts so the viewer can only guess to the carnage. Will scare people into driving carefully.

I mentioned this in another thread a while ago. They did put this on TV in the late seventies in a doco called "You just don’t realise". It was made from real police footage and it was extremely controversial at that time. It shocked the whole nation and I remember people still talking about it months after it aired. It was not sanitised at all.

There may be people alive today because of the shocking nature of this program. It certainly left an impression on me right when I was learning to drive and has played a roll on my driving behaviour ever since. I have never (thank god) been involved in a single accident in nearly thirty years of driving. Some of this was definitely attributed to the impression that this doco left on me.

My heart too goes out to all who have to attend these scenes and for those who have to tell those good folk that their loved ones will not be coming home tonite. My condolences to their families.

And for those who keep thinking that this is a "youth VL turbo Commodore" issue, just think, the BA turbo has not come of age just yet.

[WHIPLASH]

The worst of them are out on thursday nights here in rockhampton. Out to have a good time and show off there rides but of course there are the few who wanna race and drift and screw it over for the rest of them out for a goood time. It takes a race track built somewhere away from people and these poles where they can let it out and be dickheads and the only thing they have to worry about is the big concrete walls on either side of them ha ha. But of course the councils will never get the picture to build things like that so let the fatalities keep comin

Little fox

[flappist]

I wonder if one of the reasons that we have such a youth/car problem in the availability of instant finance.

When I was a teenager getting a car loan was very difficult and getting a loan for mods or tyres etc was basicly impossible.

My first car was a HK holden sedan with a manual 161 engine and it did 85mph flat out. I dreamed of fitting a V8 or even the incredibly powerful 186 but could not afford it so my mods were to fit a hotdog and replace the hydralic lifters with solid inserts.

I, along with my mates, used to do silly things but we were always going slow and due to that absolute lack of power never really got to the stage where the car was going faster than we could think.

Maybe the problem is that due to the lack of actual experience when something is starting to go wrong, e.g. understeering, oversteering or an unexpected obsticle, the young drivers do not have enough time to resolve the problem and recover.

When I learned to fly I was always taught to ensure that I was "not behind the aircraft". Basicly faster aircraft require more attention as there is more to do and if you take too long you can find yourself in a lot of trouble. e.g. If while descending into the circuit you are concentrating on temps and not airspeed then you come in too hot and can't extend the gear or flaps and therefore not land.

Limiting "P" platers from some high powered vehicles is only part of the solution. An inexperienced person in an old low powered 4WD is very dangerous on wet roads but there is no reason why a person who got their "P" yesterday or even a person who has been driving for 20 years in a small automatic ricebubble.

It is a complex issue because the general belief is the driving is a RIGHT. The problem is that in our current society transport is necessary and for many driving is the ONLY transport.

[Full Noise]

The old phrase “you can’t educate idiots” comes to mind here. I have this strange feeling that it wouldn’t matter what type of car this fool was driving, the outcome would probably have been the same.

My 2 cents.

[Longreach]

I agree that there is a problem with deaths on the roads don't get me wrong. Yet everyone time a P plater dies someone posts it on the forum. YES it was a nasty incident. But did anyone comment on the 2 blokes that died in the ute as the son rolled it and niether man was wearing seat belts.(This was WA, Northampton if i remmeber correct don't quote me on it though. The son was well above p plater age.

There seems to be a prejeduice towards p platers, i'm not saying that we are perfect drivers, because we ARE NOT. It is a concern but i think ripping on the poor kid who will have to live the rest of his life knowing he killed a mate is just going TOO far. Be it an avoidable accident or not, he would not have gone out earlyer that night, well lets see who i can kill tonight. THat would not of been his train of thought. was he being an idiot YES, could it have been avoided possibly, but not a certanity as get any car moving fast enough which is possible and it will come to problems when hittin a pole.

I am not going to pretend that i can offer a viable solution, and yes i think the power limitations are quite possibly a justified approach. Yet i think it is wrong how the minute a p plater dies you drag the kid through the mud, yet you don't say blue about the 45year old not wearing a seat belt.

Pat

[Sourbastard]

I had a carload of "wogans" in a VL crash anus first into large trees outside my house at about 100kph at a guess. Unfortunately all lived to drift another day.

What was ammusing was when the brother of the drivers girlfriend arrived and punched 8 shades of excrament from him and his mates.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

What was ammusing was when the brother of the drivers girlfriend arrived and punched 8 shades of excrament from him and his mates.

You could have sold tickets to that. I certainly would have bought one.

[Tiapan]

geez! in the paper yesterday a worker was reading it in the smoko room, he read out that teenagers have died in a car crash, i said 'bet it was a commodore' sure enough it was a vx.

is it the stereotypical holden driver? dont see many fords killing teenagers do we? everytime a holden gets a yellow sticker the policeman has just saved a life. i think its more the type of people who drive these cars....idiots, glad they dont drive fords

there was a street racing death recenlty, a holden and an xf, they clipped and both rolled and landed next to eachother, the xf was much stronger in the rollover and the ocupants were fine, the vl or whatever killed a pretty young girl.

[needaXYGT]

the xf was much stronger

the XF is a very tough car. i saw a video once of a stock XF on a race track. it rolled and tumbled through the air many times. the only pannel it lost was a door. the roof was still intact enough so it didnt injure the driver and the driver got out with a black eye and a few scratchs. The XF is a tank.

[JD2004]

Regardless of what car we drive i believe Education is the only answer, Its the same in most cases.. Safe sex 60 years ago was probably never heard of, but through education alot has changed!! Although not 100% of people are compliant the population as a whole are much more informed about such things and are aware of what can happen.

Scare tactics are all our government are really targeting at the current moment, but what about things such as Advanced driver courses being compulrsory? Not just a 2 day course but make it alot more comprehensive, make it compulsory that once you finish your P plates, you must go for a CAMs licence to continue to drive.. these kinds of things would help out alot more than adds on TV i believe. (i dont even watch TV for these adds to mean anything to me)

I also believe that the FWD RWD issue has some factors in the easy loss of control! I drive a FWD and find it alot safer than most RWD cars i have driven.

I am a crazy P Plater with a reasonably high powered car (Not illegally) but i know how to respect the road as i have lived through my 5 brothers and a Nut of a father. But this has been my education, I just wish everyone else could share in alittle of it.

Vote 1 - Driver Education!!

Luke

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Tiapan

is it the stereotypical holden driver? dont see many fords killing teenagers do we? everytime a holden gets a yellow sticker the policeman has just saved a life. i think its more the type of people who drive these cars....idiots, glad they dont drive fords

Mate it really doesn't matter, because we all have to suffer the consequences, from the mindless minority of idiots.

Now the goverment's going to clamp down hard on us, because of this and I'm sure they don't care, what we drive.

[GCFordChic]

Originally Posted by Longreach

Yet i think it is wrong how the minute a p plater dies you drag the kid through the mud, yet you don't say blue about the 45year old not wearing a seat belt.

Pat

I understand where you are coming from and agree with most of your comments but consider this...

The 45 year old is someone the community sees as a fully grown adult with experience. If he decides to do something stupid, it is about him, not the community.
99% of drivers at the age of 45 know seatbelts are important and save lives, so they wear them.

The P plater has just recently gone through our 'driver education' system, which is meant to prepare people to drive on our roads. If he does something stupid and loses control it reflects more on what happens when someone is immature, with less experience and hasnt learnt the things experience teaches, even though a defensive driving course could teach the same things. Even though this guy may be a bogan and would have driven fast, if our education was better perhaps this would have been prevented.
I would say, AT BEST, 50% of new 'open' drivers (ie just finished P plate period) would know how to handle a car if it loses control, would have seen the effects first hand of a terrible car crash, would have been affected emotionally as a result of losing a close friend/loved one in a motor vehicle accident, would have enough commonsense to not try to 'impress' their friends with self taught driving manoeuvres.

The 45 yr old is a 1 in 100 idiot. The P Plater is a 1 in 2 idiot. Much more common, so a bigger problem our society has to endeavour to fix.

[LTDHO]

It happens.

[Tiapan]

yeah driver education is essential, i know so many people who have been told to break hard if car slides out on a wet roundabout, and stupid **** like not being taught oppisite lock, most of the idiots cant tell understeer from oversteer, AHD (does driving courses) has been pushing and pushing to make there course compulsary but still nothing....complete bullshit, i learnt to drive on school ovals and saltlakes (my dad was a hoon too) now sliding in the wet is a joy.
70% of young drivers havnt even done an emergency brake test!

[EBFalcs]

an 18 yr old female died the other day ina magna or camry, hit a tree, all that was said is that speed may have been the cause, where was the comments on hoon drivers and power restrictions.

also most crashes aren't because of power they're because of speed, if someone is gong to take a sharp corner at 70km/h where poles and stuff are, they're gonna do it weather they are in a BA GT or a ford laser.

[smiley]

Originally Posted by xcgxl

You can see plenty of car accident victims pics here www.ogrish.com

Yeh, there are alot there. Smoking packets don't phase me in the slightest, don't know why, just no real shock in it. However seeing images of people ripped apart in a car is a whole new shocking ball game and I believe it would be effective to expose some of it.

[ltd]

Personally, I think all L platers should be IQ tested before being allowed to pass and get their P's to prove they have the cognitive skills to recognise various elements of danger on the road and make informed decisions. For too long, we have allowed people to get away with too much on the basis of rights being eroded but, look at the outcomes here.

The reason why I think some young people are unsuitable for the roads are numerous, and I'll try to outline some of the differences between say a P plater and a 45 year old below.

A P Plater takes unnecessary risks because they may/may not have:
* Little regard for consequences of actions
* Knows not their mortality
* Thinks is only hurting self
* Takes uneducated risks
* Has far too much unsubstantiated bravado
* Blase attitude towards other road users
* Inability to weigh up all factors before taking action
* Highly emotional.
* Brain still developing up till age 24
* Probably driving a cheaper car and has plans to hot it up.

In contrast, a 45 year old driver is less likely to endanger themself because:
* Probably has family
* Probably has people dependant on him/her
* Probably has financial responsibility
* Probably has had to deal with loss and is aware of what grief is about
* Emotionally stable (not raging hormones)
* Brain is fully developed
* Knows that pushing an object beyond its limits can result in tragedy
* Has had to make sacrifices in life and appreciates the asset
* Is aware of police and can't afford to lose licence.
* Is time poor and does not want to jeaqpordise everything
* Is less likely to modify car for power
* General awareness of life and its implications

These are some reasons why the motivation of driving is different between the two demographics, one does it out of necessity whilst the other does it out of fun but can take it too far. Granted, we have all probably done a stupid thing here or there, but cars these days are far more numerous and have much higher power outputs than 5, 10, 20 years ago. Also, as mentioned, people are able to easily get finance and as such extract more power from their cars. Furthermore, easier finance as well as the evolution of the internet has given people more access to cars and modification parts making it easier to get the go fast bits at a more affordable price. Also, police patrols are now scarce due to the cheaper revenue generating cameras.
Unfortunately, the culmination of many factors such as these has allowed youth fatalities to increase as driving demands are increased with a general decline in the education. Something needs to change.

[thefargo]

it's interesting all the comments about education, yet education is one of the budgets that usually takes a hammering. driver education costs money. awareness education (at schools) cost money. the teachers will tell you three things.
1. not enough time to teach what we've got to cover now
2. we're not paid enough to take on even more classes or responsibilities (especially when a 24 yr old at mcdonalds earns the same wage)
3. the students probably "already know it all" and would tune out or not turn up

[Lukeyson]

just saw it on the news preview, god damn that thing was violated !!!

[S3SR]

the car was pretty messed up.

i think its just like teen partying, parents need to control their children as well.
take the keys off them, exactly the same as locking them in their rooms when a party is on....either that or bury them, take control now or lose them.

its all i can say, and i know i was like those 'P' platers last year till i woke up and lost 2 of my mates to that sorta stupid stuff.

[GCFordChic]

Originally Posted by thefargo

it's interesting all the comments about education, yet education is one of the budgets that usually takes a hammering. driver education costs money. awareness education (at schools) cost money. the teachers will tell you three things.
1. not enough time to teach what we've got to cover now
2. we're not paid enough to take on even more classes or responsibilities (especially when a 24 yr old at mcdonalds earns the same wage)
3. the students probably "already know it all" and would tune out or not turn up

I dont think it should be at school. If a someone wants to drive, take time out of their social time and make it weekends. The value of the education and driving will be higher and driving will become something that is earned. It should also come from professionally trained drivers not school teachers.

[Orbit]

actually i'd support IQ testing but that in it self is a whole can of worms. there definatley needs to be more skill developement and training then what there currently is though.
Driving is a privilage not a right.

[DOC]

Some great replies and lots of idea's, but how many of you will get up tomorrow and forget all about it until it all happens again, then roll out another lashing of advice, but not do anything material that may save the next person from the same fate.

Just a thought.

[GCFordChic]

Originally Posted by DOC

Some great replies and lots of idea's, but how many of you will get up tomorrow and forget all about it until it all happens again, then roll out another lashing of advice, but not do anything material that may save the next person from the same fate.

Just a thought.

True, but without this discussion people would see the news report and forget about it even quicker...

Qld also introduced a new bunch of 'initiatives' for young drivers, so i know our government wont be interested in further suggestions for another few years at least...

[xagsjoe]

Originally Posted by EBFalcs

an 18 yr old female died the other day ina magna or camry, hit a tree, all that was said is that speed may have been the cause

This is a very sad story and happened about 20ks from where I live and after talking to a few ppl that knew her and the circumstances around this death its VERY tragic indeed. :(

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

Just saw this on the news. Holy crap it decimated the VL!!

Was not a pretty sight at all.. I feel sorry for the kids family too. His uncle sounded devastated..

Yet another tragedy on ours roads..

[Skooter]

what the hell i have seen heaps or wrecks on tv but how freakin fast do you have to be going to split a car completely in half? :

i am 17 and passed my p test in may, so i am in the very dangerous catergory, i havent had one crash, near miss, or speeding ticket yet (touch wood), i think the problem is that it is to easy to get your license, to get my second phase l's in my practical test all i had to do was drive around two roundabouts, park in a 100%empty carpark forward, and do the 'left something behind' activity....what thats it? yes thats all i had to do, yeah its was great for me because it was really easy, but this is the problem the tests are too easy and no proper 'skills' really need to be learnt. i believe i am a good driver because i learnt to drive in yr 7 (on a farm) and have been driving ever since, i believe this to be the reason why i am a decent driver. Why cant something like this be introduced into schools, maybe not yr 7 maybe like yr9 and up in go karts or something once a month then step up into cars later on because this is the key i belive to a good driver to be able to recognise what needs to be done to control a car in a hairy situation, and be comfortable in a car. another suggestion make a different kind or l's that you cant drive on public roads but you can in big carparks or even designated places like carparks or big shops on a sunday, but instead of starting at 16 why not 13 or 14?.

So why cant a defensive driving course, paid for by test taker, be the final exam, not a stupid video thingy that you press butttons to get your P's it wont cost the gov anything what is stopping them?

[fastleno]

Originally Posted by Ryan

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=103268

Here's a article extract, from NineMSN.

Jesus he must've been really going, to split it in half, like that.

So yeah gregxr8, I think it was a VLT after seeing that pic.

yer those vl's seem to spilt in half in a hard hit seen a few when i worked at a wreckers a while back, all the spot welds let go on the floor pan.