is the 4x4 honeymoon over?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

What year is your ute again?

Whats that got to do with anything - you think I haven't driven (and worked) on all of the Thailand Specials?

They're objectively terrible cars - body on frame chassis, drum brakes (except for the USDM Ranger and the Raptor, why would that be?), wheezy tiny diesel engines.

Why do you think that the American ute market keeps growing and growing and growing and growing every month?

The market wouldn't have spoken if 20 years ago that ridiculous one sided free trade agreement where Ford Australia got shafted and the FBT incentives didn't start.

[prydey]

It's just a question. The fact you avoided it tells me you know the relevance.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

You're aware I own one, right?

Just because something is popular, doesn't mean its actually good

The market has spoken about MDMA, cocaine and methamphetamines too, but I don't see you pushing for those.

Franco, saw your picture on facebook.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

It's just a question. The fact you avoided it tells me you know the relevance.

If you think that Thailand Specials have suddenly made a huge turn around in the last 20 years I think you'll be sorely mistaken, everything sans the Ranger is AIDS-on-wheels.

It doesn't matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, its still a pig, they're all still body on frame, they've all got drum brakes on the rear and they all still have wheezy diesel engines (except the torque has jumped 100nm and an extra 20-30KW for the 4 cylinder ones in 20 years)

In fact they all failed carexpert's towing test (except V6 Ranger and Raptor)

How many Thailand Specials have you owned, worked on or driven?

I've got no problem with utes, I quite like the American ones, as well as the Australian ones.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

If you think that Thailand Specials have suddenly made a huge turn around in the last 20 years I think you'll be sorely mistaken, everything sans the Ranger is AIDS-on-wheels.

It doesn't matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, its still a pig, they're all still body on frame, they've all got drum brakes on the rear and they all still have wheezy diesel engines (except the torque has jumped 100nm and an extra 20-30KW for the 4 cylinder ones in 20 years)

In fact they all failed carexpert's towing test (except V6 Ranger and Raptor)

How many Thailand Specials have you owned, worked on or driven?

I've got no problem with utes, I quite like the American ones, as well as the Australian ones.

Serious question, do you feel the same way about the SUV versions? Are they built the same as the utes?

[prydey]

Haha, the car expert test. Yeah, Maric really replicated the real world there didn't he.

Of course the 'must go fast at all times' crowd just lap it up.

I guess some people grow up and some people get older.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Serious question, do you feel the same way about the SUV versions? Are they built the same as the utes?

I don't like SUVs either, unless they're the proper sized ones like the Chevrolet Suburban or the Ford Explorer - both which we don't get in Australia.

Otherwise they're just based on smaller platforms with the same drivetrain, so they handle worse, they use more fuel and they're slower.

Territory is a great car, the Falcon is better though.

Originally Posted by prydey

Haha, the car expert test. Yeah, Maric really replicated the real world there didn't he.

Of course the 'must go fast at all times' crowd just lap it up.

I guess some people grow up and some people get older.

Just because you got older doesn't mean you need to become stale and give up on enjoying life.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Territory is a great car, the Falcon is better though.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

We're just never going to agree (we have once, and hell froze over), and that's fine - it doesn't make either of us wrong.

I'm sure the Ranger will suit your needs perfectly.

[prydey]

Yep, there's more to life than cars...

[Citroënbender]

Ergonomics of the tray in such vehicles will never work well for me. A good tray height is 900 maximum unladen, and an ideal tray is 2500 long internally so you can carry 2440 building sheets with a bit of scrap either end to protect. The lower the roofline, the more accessible your racks are, too - another way to reduce injury risk.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Ergonomics of the tray in such vehicles will never work well for me. A good tray height is 900 maximum unladen, and an ideal tray is 2500 long internally so you can carry 2440 building sheets with a bit of scrap either end to protect. The lower the roofline, the more accessible your racks are, too - another way to reduce injury risk.

The 'hi-rider' spec 4x2s are crap because the tray height is a bit higher that makes it awkward to use.

Leave it as an option I reckon, or just on the 4x4 models.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Why wouldnt you buy one if you could?

I had one. Now I don’t and won’t again.

I don’t understand people who buy them and never use the off road capabilities. Never use the tray capabilities. Never use the towing capabilities. Like do what you want but are the compromises worth being taller than some other traffic?

I did use the tray capabilities but I found the convenience wasn’t worth the negatives in other areas. Now I just find work arounds.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I did use the tray capabilities but I found the convenience wasn’t worth the negatives in other areas. Now I just find work arounds.

Tray's too small for my use (ideally, needs to be long enough for my gokart). There was a long tray Ranger development mule, but I'm not aware of it being a serious prospect to be made.

The new Silverado gets a folding rear seat, so long items can breach the cabin, which is a nice compromise. But again, wont see that in any regular sized utes. And am I'm not going to drive something F150-sized.

[BENT_8]

I bloody love my Ranger, and you'll love yours too Rob for what you want to do with it.
I was skeptical for a long time but the convenience of them won out in the end and im glad it did.
No more piling **** up in the back of a wagon and either needing a cargo barrier to keep it there or running the gauntlet of not having a cargo barrier and copping a suitcase in the back of your head if **** goes pear shaped.

No they dont handle like a Falcon, but they'll take you to, and more importantly bring you back, from many places a Falcon simply wont whilst safely carrying all your ****.

After having my 3.2 tuned its a much nicer drive too, plus I now have the same power and more torque than the biturbo so it pulls like a train and has been faultless since doing so.

[FTE217]

A honeymoon ? doubt that will stop people/small business abn holders buying them.
Yer they might not tick all the box's but as a practical work family untility vehicle they do ok for what they are full stop period.
Got to look ahead not past, sadly big engines went out of flavour the OE's read or heard the consumer minds, plus it all changed long before Falcon/Holden closed up shop that many here were used to.
Made life harder for those who needed longer rear trays but tradies imporvised or went to Jap tray backs.
The 4x4 isn't a race car, you live with it, handling ? upgrade the suspension they are farfar better drive and handling.
Drum brakes, thats life but you could put slotted front rotors and better front pads they pull up alot better, tbh whilst I had mine it no matter the rear drums, lining coverage isn't bad its just people expect today rear discs, the yanks have lived with live axles and drums for yonks as well till of late and their pick ups way heavier than thailand specials and they tow heaps of large trailers etcetc.....

What the thailand special has provided is manymany families alot more options for their lifestyle holidays which is great, its boomed for over 10/15 even 20yrs.
I think thats a good thing having done trips I would have never done without having one.
Seriously who cares, if it works for some people that what they like.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I don’t understand people who buy them and never use the off road capabilities. Never use the tray capabilities. Never use the towing capabilities. Like do what you want but are the compromises worth being taller than some other traffic?
.

Never understood why some people concern themselves with other people's choices.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by prydey

A lot of similarities between kenworth and landcruiser 70/79 series, not to mention the buyers of each.

Yeah me neither.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by prydey

Never understood why some people concern themselves with other people's choices.

There's one spineless little "man" goading Franco to come in and say something in the Lebonator thread, because he's too cowardly to come in and say anything himself

Why would you care that much?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

Never understood why some people concern themselves with other people's choices.

My concern isn't about how you or others spend your money,

Mine is how I've got very limited choice in the market anymore, both me and kevino here on AFF are manual hatch buyers (used to be anyway)

At the $50K mark and under there's literally only three options for someone who doesn't want a Thailand Special, an SUV, a combination of both that's auto or a complete nugget car.

It's the Hyundai i30N, Hyundai i20N, the Subaru WRX and that's literally it out of all the manufacturers - maybe the Kia Picanto GT if you are happy with a 74KW/170NM weapon

No one is keen for the niche market anymore, everyone wants to punch up over the exact same customer who has 50 options already.

It would be like being a food manufacturer and you decide to bring white bread to the market and you sit next to the other 50 different brands of white bread on the shelf, and Toyota is 25 of those white breads.

Franco likes pane di casa, it's edible white bread but everyone took it off the shelf

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

My concern isn't about how you or others spend your money,

Mine is how I've got very limited choice in the market anymore, both me and kevino here on AFF are manual hatch buyers (used to be anyway)

At the $50K mark and under there's literally only three options for someone who doesn't want a Thailand Special, an SUV, a combination of both that's auto or a complete nugget car.

It's the Hyundai i30N, Hyundai i20N, the Subaru WRX and that's literally it out of all the manufacturers - maybe the Kia Picanto GT if you are happy with a 74KW/170NM weapon

No one is keen for the niche market anymore, everyone wants to punch up over the exact same customer who has 50 options already.

It would be like being a food manufacturer and you decide to bring white bread to the market and you sit next to the other 50 different brands of white bread on the shelf, and Toyota is 25 of those white breads.

Franco likes pane di casa, it's edible white bread but everyone took it off the shelf

And soon, all those options will disappear, and you'll be left with the choice of bland, soulless white good EV's that cost twice as much as the equivalent ICE car.

Look at the Hyundai Ioniq 5N. Essentially the hot hatch version of that size, equivalent to the i30N. It will cost over 100k ffs. An i30N is half that. Madness.

[Polyal]

Sorry Franco your off the mark on this one. These utes are safe enough and much safer than Falcons gone by.

Times are a changin (already have), your too young to harbour so much angst for a lack of choice for new cars that I cant see you buying anyway?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Sorry Franco your off the mark on this one. These utes are safe enough and much safer than Falcons gone by.

Times are a changin (already have), your too young to harbour so much angst for a lack of choice for new cars that I cant see you buying anyway?

Safer? Go watch the monthly DCOA compilations and watch how many end up backwards in roundabouts or get wheels off the ground in accidents

Or from earlier this week - the Navara that got tipped on its side and the driver iced when it got t-boned by a motorbike:



https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-...erth/102320100

How is something with crap 4x4 tyres and a high centre of gravity the 'safer' option compared to normal cars?

I t-boned TF Rodeo at around 90km/h in 2011 in my first Focus right into the passenger B pillar and it didn't tip over onto its side:







I walked out of that with some burns from the airbags, temporary deafness and purple bruises from the seatbelt pretensioners ripping me back into the seat.

The other guy walked out of it with a bit of a limp.

How the hell a lot more modern Thailand Special ended up on its side with that much damage from a motorbike hitting it?

I reckon its that higher centre of gravity at play, just like how all the SUVs pick up wheels in accidents, again you can see it on DCOA compilations, check out their crash compilations.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

And soon, all those options will disappear, and you'll be left with the choice of bland, soulless white good EV's that cost twice as much as the equivalent ICE car.

Look at the Hyundai Ioniq 5N. Essentially the hot hatch version of that size, equivalent to the i30N. It will cost over 100k ffs. An i30N is half that. Madness.

Gotta admit while the Ranger isn't for me (tray too small to securely stow all lengths of board in my full quiver of boards; know too many tradies with tools nicked out of the easily broken-into canopies; why buy a ute for $$$ then need a separate trailer on top of this for your full toolkit?), I'm not looking forward to the world you describe up there. Already a true Territory replacement is twice the price of the original. I guess in EV it will be 4 times the price.

(Also suspect once scale and volume ramp, finding the materials for the batteries will become a problem. What then? Well, price will go up.)

[Sprintey]

Folks are having a laugh that drum brakes and ladder frame chassis and live axles aren't a step backwards... the news was positive each time one of these was superseded in the history of car development...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Folks are having a laugh that drum brakes and ladder frame chassis and live axles aren't a step backwards... the news was positive each time one of these was superseded in the history of car development...

They wheel them back out for tax incentives though - thats the only reason all the Thailand Specials have drum brakes.

Its interesting how the USDM PX Ranger has rear discs, but the Australian version had rear drums.

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

At the $50K mark and under there's literally only three options for someone who doesn't want a Thailand Special, an SUV, a combination of both that's auto or a complete nugget car.

It's the Hyundai i30N, Hyundai i20N, the Subaru WRX and that's literally it out of all the manufacturers - maybe the Kia Picanto GT if you are happy with a 74KW/170NM weapon

Its really down to 2... Currently (and since October/ish last year) Hyundai has stopped taking orders for new I20N's. You want one now, you have to either pay too much second hand/demo or keep calling dealers until you find one where there is an order where the buyer pulled out or finance fell over... Dealers dont even know when or IF they will take them again, I asked my dealer when I collected my Tuscon. I30N though *Chefs Kiss* love them.

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Safer? Go watch the monthly DCOA compilations and watch how many end up backwards in roundabouts or get wheels off the ground in accidents

Or from earlier this week - the Navara that got tipped on its side and the driver iced when it got t-boned by a motorbike:

image

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-...erth/102320100

How is something with crap 4x4 tyres and a high centre of gravity the 'safer' option compared to normal cars?

I t-boned TF Rodeo at around 90km/h in 2011 in my first Focus right into the passenger B pillar and it didn't tip over onto its side:

image

image

image

I walked out of that with some burns from the airbags, temporary deafness and purple bruises from the seatbelt pretensioners ripping me back into the seat.

The other guy walked out of it with a bit of a limp.

How the hell a lot more modern Thailand Special ended up on its side with that much damage from a motorbike hitting it?

I reckon its that higher centre of gravity at play, just like how all the SUVs pick up wheels in accidents, again you can see it on DCOA compilations, check out their crash compilations.

you got anymore photos of the rodeo? I'm 99% sure that was a mates car that he had sold and I nearly bought.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

you got anymore photos of the rodeo? I'm 99% sure that was a mates car that he had sold and I nearly bought.

Thats the only ones I got but thats hilarious if that's the car, was owned by a guy who had it as a project car, had his licence for a week before I sent the Rodeo and my new Focus to sims metal

[MITCHAY]

I wish it were but it ain't