How do you rate the GT-F vs GTS?

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by AGS302

Torque is a force. Horsepower is the work being done by that force over time.
Higher horsepower means more is getting done. Torque doesn't even matter at that point. The car with more horsepower will win if the cars are evenly matched and have the correct gearing for their respective power curves.
Torque is fun to drive with, and is cool to brag about, but horsepower indicates how much work can actually be accomplished with that force.

Its why you need to look at what's "under the curve"
When you see both power graphs side by side - you'll see that the GTS has the higher potential in both Torque and HP where they intersect. Based on that - you could safely conclude that all other things being relatively equal - the GTS would be the quicker car. Its not what we wanted to see or hear - but its fact. But again - there's no shame here as the GTS has a larger engine , it is intercooled as well - so the result would be repeatable.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

...

1 The superior way FORD has delivered the Final GT (sensible product in a DEAD not Dying market) in a heavily taxpayer supported industry. I could expand on this but if you think about this for a second I'm sure you'll get it!

...

You use this line a lot.

Unless you are a shareholder in either Ford or GM then it doesn't matter how they spend their money. To purposely buy a product because that company is thrifty with it's spending is ridiculous.

Every government subsidizes their auto industries, Australia was not unique.

[Sorted]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

GTF should be quicker down the quarter mile, if TESTED in the same conditions.

And Auto vs Auto

[Nova 8]

Ah how the world has changed, real men drive manual... But fast men drive auto.

What's better, playing fast in a manual or being fast in an auto.

[XBGTFGGTP]

Originally Posted by Rodge

GT-F is nothing but a very mildly tweeked SC R Spec and if you care to review Motor magazine February 2013 edition you'll see how the R Spec couldn't even account for an SRT8 on the track...what hope against a GTS

I'll be happy to put my GTF up against your 300C on the track Rodge when it arrives. As it's only a overpriced R-Spec it should be a even match.

[Nova 8]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And can someone tell me what constitutes a troll in these threads?
Would it be someone who goes against the grain in a thread about opinions...

There are no real trolls in these threads, its a term lost to the masses of the internet and is now used to refute reason or someone else's opinion.

True trolls do stuff that get you banned from forums or video games. There for no reason other than to get a rise by any means necessary.

[XBGTFGGTP]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Add in the fact that's at least a generation and a half ahead in terms of technology, has adaptive suspension, vastly better and more supportive sports seats, substantially better brakes and suspension and always makes its power, (rather than sometimes in "theoretical optimal over-boost conditions") and you've got a clear winner in my opinion.

I thought you would have one by now Rodge seeing as they are the best thing since sliced bread. Forgot too expensive.

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by Alan D Segal

Seems like the general consensus on the interwebs - bar the hysterical rants of those who are waaaaay over the Ford or Holden side - is:

- GTS has Australia's most powerful engine
- GT-F is Australia's most powerful car at the rear wheels on transient overboost/when not self-retarding
- GTS is Australia's fastest car in a straight line, but not by a massive amount
- GTS is Australia's fastest car by a fair margin when corners are involved
- With the GTS's driveline, coolers and brakes that margin would likely get bigger with every lap.

The GT-F is not a dyno queen because it is a brilliant performance car in its own right - and a brilliant send off for the venerable GT name badge.

It offers about 95% of the real-world performance that the GTS does, but for only 90% of the price (if you don't pay the inflated prices some people are asking for them).

But the dyno is the only battle it really wins against the GTS, which while more expensive does stand up better against other similar-sized performance sedans.

So what is the general consensus here? Are we in a position to present an Australian Ford Forums perspective on the final GT vs GTS debate?

From my experience the one thing that is ultimately as important as rarity in the collector market with muscle cars is the amount of engineering that went into the drivetrain to make them more robust, stout than there donar counterparts.......in the coming decades I think this will be more important than any dyno or drag strip results to sort out the pecking order.

Cheers Mick

[zilo]

They will both devalue at the same rate is my prediction...

[Nova 8]

Originally Posted by zilo

They will both devalue at the same rate is my prediction...

Money would be better off left in the bank gaining interest then purchasing a car. Cars are a bad way to invest for the future.

[futura]

I leave my money do the talking. Soon to be GTF owner.

[Tezza]

Question....

Why is it that people believe the "GTS has Australia's most powerful engine"?

Is it because the badge on the boot says so, or is it because it had one dyno run higher than the GTF (the GTF had 8 higher rwkw figures on two separate dynos than the GTS) in the wheels shoot out.....?

Maybe Ford should have bought a few lotto tickets that day, cause "all the stars aligned" and the GTF managed to stay in transient overboost 90% of the time... Maybe they could have saved the falcon with the winnings of this once in a life time event....

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Tezza

Question....

Why is it that people believe the "GTS has Australia's most powerful engine"?

Is it because the badge on the boot says so, or is it because it had one dyno run higher than the GTF (the GTF had 8 higher rwkw figures on two separate dynos than the GTS) in the wheels shoot out.....?

Maybe Ford should have bought a few lotto tickets that day, cause "all the stars aligned" and the GTF managed to stay in transient overboost 90% of the time... Maybe they could have saved the falcon with the winnings of this once in a life time event....

I've only heard those statements about power etc on this site.

On the street the only thing I hear is - these will be the last Aussie built muscle cars.

[BENT_8]

Seeing as this ISNT a DYNO thread...

Have they raced these things around Bathurst yet????

If not, I haven't missed anything worthwhile.

[Nova 8]

Originally Posted by Tezza

Question....

Why is it that people believe the "GTS has Australia's most powerful engine"?

Is it because the badge on the boot says so, or is it because it had one dyno run higher than the GTF (the GTF had 8 higher rwkw figures on two separate dynos than the GTS) in the wheels shoot out.....?

Maybe Ford should have bought a few lotto tickets that day, cause "all the stars aligned" and the GTF managed to stay in transient overboost 90% of the time... Maybe they could have saved the falcon with the winnings of this once in a life time event....

Most powerful engine/car is different to highest rwkw on a dyno. GTS has bigger wheel and drive train and a worse trans which reduces numbers, unless both engines are put on a dyno we won't really know.

[Tezza]

Originally Posted by Nova 8

Most powerful engine/car is different to highest rwkw on a dyno. GTS has bigger wheel and drive train and a worse trans which reduces numbers, unless both engines are put on a dyno we won't really know.

So you think 20rwkw (which would normally be around 25-30fwkw) does not account for a beefier transmission and diff?

Even a manual vs auto doesn't have that sort of difference....

You are right though, we will never know unless both engines are bench tested though. I know where my guess would be though......

[chopstar87]

Meh... neither.. Hellcat Charger thanks... (just wish they would make them in RHD from factory lol!)

GTS vs GTF - Both are great cars for the price and If your a ford person, you will get the GTF, if your a holden person, you will get the GTS. If you are natural, what ever suits your needs/budget better.

[BENT_8]

I wanna see dyno figures or 1/4 mile runs done in the middle of February when the ambient temp is much hotter than the middle of winter in Melbourne.

[Nova 8]

Originally Posted by Tezza

So you think 20rwkw (which would normally be around 25-30fwkw) does not account for a beefier transmission and diff?

Even a manual vs auto doesn't have that sort of difference....

You are right though, we will never know unless both engines are bench tested though. I know where my guess would be though......

My guess is with the GTS, always has been. I've said in other threads that the GTS is the most powerful Aussie car as the industry standard is engine power not rwkw. You don't move the yard stick just because its favors your camp.

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by Nova 8

There are no real trolls in these threads, its a term lost to the masses of the internet and is now used to refute reason or someone else's opinion.

True trolls do stuff that get you banned from forums or video games. There for no reason other than to get a rise by any means necessary.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Nova 8

You don't move the yard stick just because its favors your camp.

Run em round Baffist, its where GT's and GTS's earned their HERITAGE!!!

And in the words of James Alan Hetfield...NOTHING ELSE MATTERS!

Open mind for a different view...

[Nova 8]

I would love to see that, a couple of each at the same time would be the best.

I'm sure HSV would love the title of most powerful Aussie made car. They still have manufacturing (modification) interests on Australian soil.

[chopstar87]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Run em round Baffist, its where GT's and GTS's earned their HERITAGE!!!

And in the words of James Alan Hetfield...NOTHING ELSE MATTERS!

I fully agree with this and it would be a sight to be seen and heard! maybe they should do it at Bathurst this year...

I say throw the SRT8 in the mix as well... then its the big 3 racing each other 1 last time in street cars around Bathurst and it will also settle the fight between the 3 cars...

Conrod straight will be interesting.. as the FPV will be speed limited to 250km/h. not sure about the HSV and the SRT8 is speed limited to 280km/h.

[Tezza]

Originally Posted by Nova 8

My guess is with the GTS, always has been. I've said in other threads that the GTS is the most powerful Aussie car as the industry standard is engine power not rwkw. You don't move the yard stick just because its favors your camp.

You haven't answered the question though Nova...

Why the GTS? Because the badge says so? General rule of thumb is hp on the road is kW at the engine.

That means the GTF is close to 450-460fwkw
The GTS is 430fwkw (claimed)

I don't think a transmission and diff alone can account for that difference

The badge is marketing spin. How do you know they aren't full of B.S? (Kind of like Ford are but in reverse...)

[chopstar87]

maybe ford should have built a car that could be badged as 400+kw, where the power is available 100% of the time??

maybe ford should have shown some balls and put the bigger badge on the car and back themselves.

[Nova 8]

Originally Posted by Tezza

You haven't answered the question though Nova...

Why the GTS? Because the badge says so? General rule of thumb is hp on the road is kW at the engine.

That means the GTF is close to 450-460fwkw
The GTS is 430fwkw (claimed)

I don't think a transmission and diff alone can account for that difference

The badge is marketing spin. How do you know they aren't full of B.S? (Kind of like Ford are but in reverse...)

Your numbers mean the GTF is dropping around 110kw if not more which is more than the GTS, but HSV is lying?

Ford said the GTF has 351 at all times +15% for the over boost.

[rancidpunx]

Originally Posted by XBGTFGGTP

I'll be happy to put my GTF up against your 300C on the track Rodge when it arrives. As it's only a overpriced R-Spec it should be a even match.

Ah the old Motor Magazine SRT8 again Rodge . No worries against a 300c in a straight line, the one at the drags last week was nearly a second slower with his best time. I would like to see another track comparison as i'm not convinced.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Add to the Op's synopsis:
GTS makes more power and considerably more torque in the low and mid range.

Torque is what's really important when you're done talking.

Not really......... with the amount of power these cars are both making getting all that power from the rear wheels to the ground is the most important.

[Tezza]

Originally Posted by Nova 8

Your numbers mean the GTF is dropping around 110kw if not more which is more than the GTS, but HSV is lying?

Ford said the GTF has 351 at all times +15% for the over boost.

Rwkw is generally a % loss of fwkw figure, not a raw number

GTF 455fwkw - 24% = 109.2kw = 345.8rwkw

GTS 430fwkw - 24% = 103.2kw = 326.8rwkw

19rwkw difference on one dyno

Or.....

GTF 430fwkw - 24% = 103.2kw = 326.8rwkw

GTS - 405fwkw - 24% = 97.2 = 307.8rwkw

19rwkw difference on another dyno (Herrod)

HSV telling fibs.... Pft never.... :-)

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by futura

I leave my money do the talking. Soon to be GTF owner.

Amen.
End of the day, that's the only thing that really counts. You buy what pleases you.
When all is said and done and the dust has settled, owning a GT is a special experience.
I imagine owning a GTS would be equally rewarding, if that's what pleases you.
Its fun on the road as owners when you get a wave from a fellow GT owner. Its a brotherhood , an understanding and a passion that transcends most of the semantics.
I for one look forward go getting a wave from a fellow GTF owner in the months ahead when more of them eventually hit the road.

Peace out !