Why aren't Falcons sold in America ???

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Every time I give my opinion on what the Falcon needs to do well in America, someone on here goes off at me like I just insulted his mother, so I better not. :P

LOL,American sites do the same to me when i suggest Falcon, it's seen as as basically two generations behind the market.

Examples of comments on new GT Falcon variant:

Not bad looking but the styling is still stuck in the late 1990's-early 2000's

I love the fact its RWD and V8, I'm all for it, but the styling reminds me quite a bit of what Chrysler did with the 300...tuck, tuck, cut and it's just getting tiring this late in the game, but more power to them...

I don't see how this equates to Lincoln getting anything anytime soon. And no, slapping a Lincoln grille on this car wouldn't make them any more credible in the least.

That Falcon Boss is bad@ss looking, and is what the Taurus SHO should be, RWD with a screaming V8.

I find the FG Falcon's styling to be classic, functional, understated, and elegant. It should stand the test of time better than flamboyant and overdone designs from the mid to late 2000s.

And ideal for a "Q Ship" like this latest high performance variant. :shades:

unfortunately I doubt it would work here...too late to the party as such....actually looks a tad dated to me...

I don't think it's standing the test of time now, let alone how it'll hold up in another 20-30 years.

I was in NZ 12 years ago and saw a new Falcon and thought it was........interesting, even hot in XR trim, but not the most attractive car even then.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by jpd80

LOL,American sites do the same to me when i suggest Falcon, it's seen as as basically two generations behind the market.

I think although some changes need to be made, in general, a RWD/AWD sports sedan with a retro name (to America) like "Falcon" to compete with the Charger and SS Performance (Commodore) could do well.

If it is styled much like the 2013 Mondeo/Fusion, it will work. It appeals to the Yanks and Europeans. I am sure Aussies like it too.

[Nikked]

wow...just wow...


Some of those comments really highlight the difference between our to nations.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by chevypower

I think although some changes need to be made, in general, a RWD/AWD sports sedan with a retro name (to America) like "Falcon" to compete with the Charger and SS Performance (Commodore) could do well.

I agree, Falcon and Mustang could and should be sold alongside each other.
it's the most logical way to cover that niche and show GM and Chrysler up for
not having the brains to deliver cost efficient solutions to a still important niche.

Ford has not given up on large cars, it's just down their priority list and also
contingent on what is requires in a few global markets apart from USA and Australia.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Nikked

wow...just wow...


Some of those comments really highlight the difference between our to nations.

Oh yeah, an acceptable "Falcon" to American would have to look more like a Dodge Charger
(My research of responses over the years is that they hate the AU-BA-BF-FG noses and the lack of scalloping on door skins)

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

When was the Australian Falcon ever offered in the US?

Possibly he was referring to the reception the Monaro and Commodore got as the GTO and G8.

[Moby Vic]

Originally Posted by Elks

Back in the 1960's. It was the donor car for us..

1. That wasn't the Australian Falcon.

2. It sold very well in the US throughout the 1960s. But it was an economy car, not a performance car. (Yes, the Sprints were "performance" models, but they paled in comparison to Mustangs, Fairlanes, and Galaxies. And the '70-1/2 Falcon Cobra Jet is an oddity.)

[2011G6E]

I've been in contact with a Ford dealer in California that, coincidentally, has the same name as us, and he sent us some dealership stickers and other goodies, one of which is on the back window...certainly made a few people ask questions...

The owner of the dealership said in an email (after I sent him a few pictures of our G6E and details about it), that he loved it, that they could sell hundreds of them.
Then I told him that the RRP of the car (I know, no one pays RRP on any car) was $54,000 with the extras it had fitted, and we had paid $47,000 (before trade-in), and he immediately said "Well...not at that price I couldn't...". Certainly not in a market where you can get a V6 Mustang for less than $25,000, and a hotter V8 one for not much more.


Then again, the Ford Capri convertible was always staggeringly cheaper in the USA that it was sold for here, even though it was built here in Australia...

Holden has done it with the Commodore for many years...no real reason Ford couldn't if they wanted to, especially with the Ecoboost four cylinder now. I do suspect though that Ford Australia is much more heavily influenced by "head office" in the USA than Holden is by General Motors...

[Uncle Niceguy]

im sure Americans would love a 4 door mustang, if they had the oppurtunity to buy one.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I've been in contact with a Ford dealer in California that, coincidentally, has the same name as us, and he sent us some dealership stickers and other goodies, one of which is on the back window...certainly made a few people ask questions...

The owner of the dealership said in an email (after I sent him a few pictures of our G6E and details about it), that he loved it, that they could sell hundreds of them.
Then I told him that the RRP of the car (I know, no one pays RRP on any car) was $54,000 with the extras it had fitted, and we had paid $47,000 (before trade-in), and he immediately said "Well...not at that price I couldn't...". Certainly not in a market where you can get a V6 Mustang for less than $25,000, and a hotter V8 one for not much more.


Then again, the Ford Capri convertible was always staggeringly cheaper in the USA that it was sold for here, even though it was built here in Australia...

Holden has done it with the Commodore for many years...no real reason Ford couldn't if they wanted to, especially with the Ecoboost four cylinder now. I do suspect though that Ford Australia is much more heavily influenced by "head office" in the USA than Holden is by General Motors...

California doesnt have snow or other adverse weather conditions to deal with so naturally theyre going to like the product, or at least have less reason to demand FWD/AWD.

As for price, it comes down to several issues. Everything sells for cheaper in America, due to a combination of higher sales/population and less profit per sale required, but also a lower minimum wage. For most world cars as well, being RHD makes them more expensive, as we being RHD are the minority.

[last fairlane]

OK fair enough snow and ice for 4 to 5 months in the northern states
but how did the yanks exist there without their FWD AWD cars
lets stick with the Ford brand how did they drive T models
and as we knew back in the day they were all RWD in the snow
in the or even new Cussies Fairlanes and of course Falcons with RWD
why do they have to have FWD AWD now
have they forgotten how to drive?
dont we have snow here
must be marketing doing it
also why cant Ford Au put the Territory running gear into a Falcon
and export them as an AWD
wouldnt that be the same thing

[Franco Cozzo]

Lets say next gen Falcon post 2016:

My idea is:

• LHD Friendly Design
• Fiesta/Focus inspired styling
• Ecoboost 4 for base models
• New 2.7L V6 for XR6
• 3.5L Ecoboost for XR6T
• RWD
• Designed in Australia, manufactured in Thailand/Mexico (for the USA)
• Entry level XT pricing $29,990

If it was to go FWD/AWD why bother with Falcon at all when you have Mondeo? Which a new one is nearly done for 2013 right?

If Falcon managed to get under $30K its a direct threat to Mazda 6, Cruze, Camry, etc. But thats not possible with it being manufactured in Australia.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Every time I give my opinion on what the Falcon needs to do well in America, someone on here goes off at me like I just insulted his mother, so I better not. :P

Oh, what the heck....

3.5 EcoBoost, 5.0 V8 GT

RWD and AWD option

8 speed auto

agressive/sporty styling to attract the enthusiast - go directly after the Charger SRT8, If the top model cannot slaughter the SRT8, CTS-V, and M5, then forget it. People will perceive it to be Ford's weakness. In fact, only do sports models. I wouldn't do the G6/E or XT.

I don't get the 8 speed auto point. The stang and comaro has 6 speed and the comaro one is a real POS. An american built 6 speed would be more then ample.

As for styling well the Americans do have different tastes to Aussies. Seeing the Lincolns it shows the more ugly you can make a car the better for the US market.

[FPV GTHO]

8 speed would surely just be for the gadget factor. Normal driving the ZF6 already takes off in 2nd

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by jpd80

LOL,American sites do the same to me when i suggest Falcon, it's seen as as basically two generations behind the market.

Examples of comments on new GT Falcon variant:

Really? If Falcon is two generations behind, what's Taurus? Or (current) Fusion?

Personally, I think the Falcon is way better looking than both. I've never been a fan of US-market Fords.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by vztrt

I don't get the 8 speed auto point. The stang and comaro has 6 speed and the comaro one is a real POS. An american built 6 speed would be more then ample.

As for styling well the Americans do have different tastes to Aussies. Seeing the Lincolns it shows the more ugly you can make a car the better for the US market.

Because its direct competitors are either 8 speed or about to go 8 speed. 6 speed is the new ordinary. 8 speeds gives you an edge now. But not for long. (GM can't make transmissions, they do it best when outsourcing to Allison), Chrysler is about to go all 8-speed, the Charger and 300 are 8 speed, the Hyundai Genesis sedan has 8 speeds.... As for the Lincoln thing, it's a lost cause - there is little doubt the whole brand needs an overhaul. Yes I agree, there are differences in tastes, but the Europeans don't seem to mind masculinity in designs, so as long as it's aggressive, but tasteful, it should do well globally as a sports sedan.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by NX74205

Really? If Falcon is two generations behind, what's Taurus? Or (current) Fusion?

Personally, I think the Falcon is way better looking than both. I've never been a fan of US-market Fords.

This is the difference in styling that Ford faces, a difference that will disappear in 2014.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

I don't get the 8 speed auto point. The stang and comaro has 6 speed and the comaro one is a real POS. An american built 6 speed would be more then ample.

As for styling well the Americans do have different tastes to Aussies. Seeing the Lincolns it shows the more ugly you can make a car the better for the US market.

Ah, the difference is due to engine strategies.
GM and Chrysler are staying with larger engines and running them "off peak" with cylinder deactivation to achieve variable displacement
where as Ford is right into down-sized turbo Ecoboost engines, the increased efficiency means that staying with a 6-speed auto
is more than acceptable with a smaller, more efficient ecoboost engine


Our Falcon still reminds Americans too much of the rounded football Taurus,
today's hatred of that style is why they overcompensated with the big bold look...
The styling difference between the two countries is considerable and trying to make
one car suit both markets is almost impossible and the the reason a Falcon still exists.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by TC200six

Plus, the Falcon is too similar (in size) to the Taurus

Falcon actually a bit smaller than Taurus
XT Falcon vs MY13 Taurus 3.5v6
Length (mm) 4955 5153
Width (mm) 1868 2159
http://www.topgear.com/au/ford/falcon/spec/ford08pe
http://www.ford.com/cars/taurus/spec...ions/exterior/

While i'd like to see falcon tried over there (as a niche), i can't see it happening.

[TC200six]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

Falcon actually a bit smaller than Taurus
XT Falcon vs MY13 Taurus 3.5v6
Length (mm) 4955 5153
Width (mm) 1868 2159
http://www.topgear.com/au/ford/falcon/spec/ford08pe
http://www.ford.com/cars/taurus/spec...ions/exterior/

While i'd like to see falcon tried over there (as a niche), i can't see it happening.

I'm aware of the size differences between the Taurus and Falcon. But the Falcon is basicly the same class as eachother.

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The owner of the dealership said in an email (after I sent him a few pictures of our G6E and details about it), that he loved it, that they could sell hundreds of them.
Then I told him that the RRP of the car (I know, no one pays RRP on any car) was $54,000 with the extras it had fitted, and we had paid $47,000 (before trade-in), and he immediately said "Well...not at that price I couldn't...". Certainly not in a market where you can get a V6 Mustang for less than $25,000, and a hotter V8 one for not much more.

I've seen the RRP for new cars over there and if the Falcon was ever exported to NA, an XT should be offered in the low 20k range otherwise they would be asking too much for what it is.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by TC200six

I've seen the RRP for new cars over there and if the Falcon was ever exported to NA, an XT should be offered in the low 20k range otherwise they would be asking too much for what it is.

Man, that would be suicide.....

It's also why the whole Falcon export plan fails.

[TC200six]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Man, that would be suicide.....

It's also why the whole Falcon export plan fails.

Maybe not quite that low, but if Ford exported the Falcon and actually expected it to sell, anything above 30 grand for the entry level would be too much IMO. Plus, I remember hearing the of G8 being too expensive as well. That's why exporting Aussie Falcons to the US would just not work, unless they were assembled there.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by TC200six

Maybe not quite that low, but if Ford exported the Falcon and actually expected it to sell, anything above 30 grand for the entry level would be too much IMO. Plus, I remember hearing the G8 being too expensive as well. That's why exporting Aussie Falcons to the US would just not work, unless they were assembled there.

Now you're getting it, the exchange rates kill any chance of profit,
imagine those same figures with exchange rates at 60-70 cents US....

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

LOL,American sites do the same to me when i suggest Falcon, it's seen as as basically two generations behind the market.

Examples of comments on new GT Falcon variant:

They wouldn't know a good looking car if it ran over them. Probably half the current crop of american cars these days are just plain awful.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Because its direct competitors are either 8 speed or about to go 8 speed. 6 speed is the new ordinary. 8 speeds gives you an edge now. But not for long. (GM can't make transmissions, they do it best when outsourcing to Allison), Chrysler is about to go all 8-speed, the Charger and 300 are 8 speed, the Hyundai Genesis sedan has 8 speeds.... As for the Lincoln thing, it's a lost cause - there is little doubt the whole brand needs an overhaul. Yes I agree, there are differences in tastes, but the Europeans don't seem to mind masculinity in designs, so as long as it's aggressive, but tasteful, it should do well globally as a sports sedan.

That's basically what you are saying. Build a Charger/300 clone and slap Ford Falcon badges on it.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

That's basically what you are saying. Build a Charger/300 clone and slap Ford Falcon badges on it.

Precisely and that car is an example of why our Falcon's styling is seen as both dated and unsuitable.
They want bold styling, higher waistline and short overhangs, The Falcon styling is the complete opposite.

[jpd80]

And if you want more proof, check out the grizzling over on GM Inside news, they're already whinging
about VF spy shots, the glasshouse looks early 2000s, this is not right, that's not right, wah, wah, wha

Yeah, a forum isn't necessarily filled with potential buyers but I'm quite shocked at the mixed response.

[Moby Vic]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

They wouldn't know a good looking car if it ran over them. Probably half the current crop of american cars these days are just plain awful.

Yeah, right. There's never been an attractive American car. American styling has never been imitated in Australia or anywhere else.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

That's basically what you are saying. Build a Charger/300 clone and slap Ford Falcon badges on it.

Sure, if you need to use rhetoric to make a point.

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

They wouldn't know a good looking car if it ran over them. Probably half the current crop of american cars these days are just plain awful.

And it appears you do.

[Resurrection]

Q. Why aren't Falcons sold in America ???

A. Because Dearborn could not tolerate a subsidiary of theirs located on the ar5e end of the world producing better cars than the parent company.