2010 Ford Fiesta Zetec WS Automatic - Major Problems

[Spinner77]

waiting on a program from Germany to fix my car

What an insult to the intelligence.

What's next? Our courier, Inspector Rex, ate it?

[Rodge]

I feel for the OP, I've been there with my Merc, had massive problems with the diesel particulate filter blocking and Mercedes-benz went into denial. I know mine's a different level car but the methodology works so if you get yourself into a position of complete frustration and really want the torment to end here's how, warning, it doesn't come cheap..

There's only one method I found effective with Mercedes-benz and I call it the sledgehammer approach, (no that's not taking a sledgehammer to the car, although that crossed my mind), I instructed a top legal firm to immediatly file leagal proceedings for a full refund of the purchase price plus damages for a range of other matters. I didn't get them to start correspondence with M Benz's lawyers, Mbenz's CEO or MB Germany, I just instructed them to file a case with the court for a full refund.
Naturally car manufacturers don't want to defend these cases in court and don't want the negative publicity either so this method will get action on your car but as mentioned it does cost money.

Its amazing how quick they will sort you out if they think they're going to have to pay you all your money back, plus costs and damages.
After that they moved heaven and earth to put my M Benz right.

Not sure if you want to use the approach I took on the grounds of cost but it does get results I can assure you of that.

[Fiesta_Man69]

You are not the only one with problems with their Fiesta. I posted this elsewhere but thought it would be relevant for you too...

I bought a 2010 WS CL manual 3 door in white brand new a year ago, with 17 inch wheels and cat back exhaust, KN filter added. It is a great little car... finally.
Problems I have had with it:
*rust: it cost Ford over $9000 in parts to replace all the coroded parts of the car. I lost the car for 2 months while they did this.
* pinging. For the first 3 months the engine pinged its head off (always ran on 98 from new). Ford dealership not interested as there wasn't any fault lights showing on the dash. Only fixed after the engine was taken out while they replaced parts of the car due to rust: obviously rejigged when put back in.
*brakes. pedal went to floor completely a few times before I took it to my old mechanic who had to bleed huge air bubbles out of a brake system on a brand new car. Unbelievably scary to have no brakes in traffic, obviously.
*general build quality: I used to own a 1996 Mirage that was put together far more solidly than the Fiesta; with better brakes too.
Obviously the car wasn't checked over by the dealership (can I name them? - please let me know because no one should ever deal with them) when I paid for 'delivery.'
The Ford care system (when you call 13 FORD) is staffed by morons. The fact that you cannot contact anyone higher is a major problem. The fact that every dealership is privately owned is another huge problem - as Ford Australia has limited control - once the dealership buys the car off Ford your issues are with the dealership. The customer 'service' I experienced had to be seen to be believed. Unless you are cashed up and have a lawyer, it is useless persueing them thru Fair Trading - Australia has no lemon laws and technically Ford did nothing wrong (they eventually fixed the car after using **** excuses for stalling for months). Unfortunately you will get nowhere with Ford - they will keep fobbing you off, even if you think you are gaining ground, until the warranty runs out or you give up.
Like I said, each dealership is privately owned and buys their cars off Ford Australia. Therefore, it is quite easy for the two to keep passing the buck between each other. I only got action because my rust was so catastrophic that I mentioned if nothing was done I was going to park it outside Channel 9s studio and let their ACA staff go nuts with it: only then did the dealership go from threaten and swearing and bullying me (dealer proncipal surrounded by 5+ mechanics/other staff at every interview) to being my best friend - I got a diesel Fiesta for the time my car was in the workshop (ps: dont buy the diesel - absolutely gutless, slow.... horrible) Maybe this is what you need to do?
Once these problems on a brand new $18K German made car have been overcome the car is quite good - excellent engine, good chasis however, if I had known about such problems I would never have bought the car and never, ever with buy another Ford as long I live (I'm 30). I regret not buying the Swift or even going up to a 3.
Good luck. If they won't cooperate you just might have to sell the car and cut your losses, or hire a lawyer... and you could spend 3 times the car's value fighting Ford....

[deesun]

So much for German build quality. Ever thought they may have nobbled the diesel to get back at you.

[Fiesta God]

The thing is - that's 2 experiences out of 15,000+ Fiestas which have been sold in Australia since the WS launched.

And the only 2 "lemon" experiences we've had on this forum (which I reckon would be fairly representative ... people with problems with their car are MORE likely to jump on the internet looking for answers).


I know someone with a Suzuki Swift who had nearly all the problems that Fiesta_Man69 had.

They had rusting after 6 months, needed a new auto gearbox and the drivers seat rails needed replacing, they hadn't been secured properly.


Unfortunately there are lemon cars in every make and every model.

Instead of pointing the finger at dealerships and manufacturers, we need to blame the government for the absence of lemon laws in Australia.

That's the real problem here.

[dannyhilton]

Amen to lemon laws. That's one thing the US have that makes sense, yet we don't.

[robjh80]

Originally Posted by Fiesta God

Unfortunately there are lemon cars in every make and every model.

So true ... go to any car forum, ... any make and model of vehicle .. some people get good ones, some unfortunately get bad ones

Touch wood my XR4 hasn't missed a beat since I drove it out of the dealership back in November 2007 .. it has been an absolutely fantastic car!

Only problem Iv'e had with it was a stripped gear in the drivers side window motor last year .. got it replaced under warranty

Really sorry to hear about others having issues with their Fiesta's though .. it's not nice paying out all that hard earned money and then having constant issues, ... and then to get the run around from dealers and Ford Australia etc .. just plain wrong in my book!

Unfortunately buying a car today is like playing the lottery .. you just don't know if it's you that's going to end up getting the lemon!

[Fiesta_Man69]

"Instead of pointing the finger at dealerships and manufacturers, we need to blame the government for the absence of lemon laws in Australia." Wow, really? So its fine for Ford, or any other car manufacturer, in this day and age, to produce lemons, threaten and bully customers and take no responsibility for their products?
I know this is a Ford biased site but that opinion is mind boggling.
Fingers need to be pointed and Ford needs to man up and make decent products and then stand by them. If you believe that's too big a leap for Ford to make then wow. Just wow.
ps: there are many disgruntled fiesta owners on here, not just one or two - and this is a FAN site. How many other lemon fiestas, which are mostly bought by women who generally have no idea about cars (but not all) do you think are running around out there?

[kboukes]

The one thing that is good about this is that when we buy it we have a warranty, though in Sundae's case im not sure why they are being such buggers. Maybe take it to an independent mechanic, it will cost but better having it fixed and bill ford for it than to get the run around form their guys.

Having said that though, i agree there are horror stores with every make and model.

[Fiesta_Man69]

Just be careful with feeling assured with a warranty. Even tho my CL was riddled with rust underneath (like I said it cost Ford $9K to fix) Ford fought me at every turn.

The dealership plays the "your warranty is with Ford Australia, not us" card.

Ford Aus then plays the "we are waiting for the dealer to take action" card.

And so the game of ping pong goes on.

And when your car is in for warranty repairs you have to pay $50 a day for a courtesy vehicle so you can get to work: unless you are ultra aggressive like myself. You shouldn't have to be, but there you go.

Effectively once you sign on the line the problems are yours, not Fords.
That is mine, and several others on here, experience.

So mate; demand to inspect your car ON A HOIST before you sign a thing. If they refuse ask why they are doing so. I wish someone had told me to go over and under my brand new car before signing, thats why Im trying to help.

To the few who are nonchalantly saying 'oh well, ever car make has lemons, and these are only 2 cars with probs' consider this:

Over 90% of Fiestas are bought by women.

Therefore less than 10% are bought by men.

A microscopic amount of that 10% are on this Fiesta forum.

And yet there are many problems being highlighted: on a Ford biased FAN site!

That should ring alarm bells with Ford Aus and anyone considering buying a Ford.

If Ford Aus were serious about quality control and customer relations, ALL customers would receive excellent service and excellent cars.

These are $20K items that are being purchased. Not supermarket groceries for a buck or two. High turnover (compared to retail stores) is not what dealerships are about.

Each dealership only sells one or two Fiestas a week.

It can't be hard to ensure that these few cars are in tip top order before being delivered.

Ideally we should be on here discussing what great little cars these are (and they certainly are, once in working condition). With the miniscule % of owners on here there shouldn't be any problems being discussed. But they are.

I joined to celebrate my car finally working properly and seeing what other mods I could do - however when you see a thread asking for opinions and help, what are you supposed to do?

[Caydus]

Had my fiesta jacked up by a mate who works at a Mazda dealer as a mechanic for the last decade at his house tonight.

Generally he said it was pretty good, nothing bad he could spot, but there were 2 points which were not that great.

1. Ford didn't paint/anodize/protect/etc the drive shafts to the wheels and they're rusted. He said it's not much of a problem as it's rarely ever rusted all the way through enough to cause problems, but it's still scary to have that thing rusted...
Not sure if it's worth having them removed, sanded down and coated though.

2. Might be leaking engine oil. He said it could be wax from the engine since it doesn't wipe away right away. He cleaned it up and i might swing by his place again next Monday to see if it's really leaking.


As an aside though, looks like there are ALOT of plastic fittings in the engine bay for all kinds of tubes. More signs of cost cutting i suppose. Don't seem too hard to replace though when the time comes, or too expensive, as long as it doesn't happen in the middle of nowhere.

[Caydus]

had a chat with Ford and now they say that it's supposed to rust and if i paint it, it may throw off the balance...

[robjh80]

Originally Posted by Caydus

Ford didn't paint/anodize/protect/etc the drive shafts to the wheels and they're rusted.

That's nothing mate, check out this thread I started back in 2006 when I first bought my WQ Zetec, I was a bit shocked at the time to say the least! .. check the pics out on Page 2

For the record .. my XR4 is exactly the same as my Zetec, by the way it's nothing to worry about, don't give it another thought mate, just forget about it and enjoy your car ..

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=47415

[TMJ]

hello people. Like most of you guys in this forum we have the pleasure (not) of owning a WS Fiesta Zetec (1.6), 5 speed manual that was purchased new in July 2010. At the first service with raised the issue of the car's engine pinging. We were advised by the service department, like some other people on here to use premium fuel. We have used premium fuel that has reduced the pinging, but has created a dangerous lack of power, hesitation / dead spot that occurs when the vehicle is cold and the ambient temperatue is below 9 degress C. This has occured at high traffic intersections that on at least three seperate occasions resulted in near accident. The car has been back and forward to the dealership in the last 6 months. Fues has been drained and replaced. The car has now been at the dealership for close to a fortnight for checks etc. The dealership has worked hard for a resolution and have discussed the matter with Ford Australia's Technical helpline. This is want all dealerships use when they are endevouring to obtain further technical assistance from the manufacturer.The service manager agrees that the car is dangerous to drive and woudl not have his wife drive this car. They even have a Technician at the dealership with the same issue. Ford Australia have stated that it is a standard " characteristic" of the motor vehicle and that if they have enough complaints from dealers they may consider raising this with Europe. I do not recall reading the full order product brochure about the standard " characteristic" feature of this motor vehicle. Ford Australia seemed to be wanting to keep this quiet and blame low grade fuel etc. I do not want to see any of my family in a serious accident by being T-boned at a major intersection. I am seeking to talk to other people that have this same issue either the no power or pinging so that we can consider a group approach to the relevant media. This motor vehicle is a high volume seller for Ford Australia and other countries and they need to accept the fact that this car is dangerous. if you are having the same issues please cotnact me via email on tjmobile1010@gmail.com

[Fiesta_Man69]

Hi TMJ - Im sure you have read about my problems earlier in this thread.

Ford's pathetic quality and arrogance cannot be allowed to continue.

In another thread I encouraged people with bad experiences to write to the NSW's Daily Telegraph's Carsguide section where the Fiesta was being reviewed. That review came out today and it was slammed for its poor quality - though they didn't mention my rust problem which was disappointing. It did mention the pinging issue.

I have had the car back to dealers 4 times and had a new ECU tune put through it. Did very little.

Spoke to Troy from 13 FORD on 8/6/11 @ 4.20pm (conversation was taped, supposedly) where he too said that pinging was a characteristic of Fiestas. I laughed at his ignorance and gave him 3 opportunities to change his story, even after pointing out that Ford wouldn't deliberately make an engine that would self destruct..... but he didn't: again the problem with the stupid 13 FORD customer 'care' centre is that it is staffed by morons.

I run the car on 98. On E10 it almost shat itself. 91 sounds like a diesel.

I agree, serious action must be taken. According to the sales figures in Wheels mag, the Fiesta is the second highest selling Ford product after the Falcon - or, once you discount fleet numbers - the highest selling private Ford car in the country. I believe that their quality and safety are dangerous and life threatening too.

[csv8]

Go here for info on consumer rights..
http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/conten...sumers_ACL.htm

[TMJ]

Dear Fiesta_Man69
I agree in full review in relation to the quality and arrogance around this particular problem. They specify that the card requires 91 Octane or greater. The dealership and Ford to turn round and say to use a higher octane fuel thus increases the running cost of his vehicle it was certainly not disclosed and that purchase nor is it stated in the owner's manual that using 91 octane will create I pinging. I personally spent close to 10 years in the automotive industry as a service manager for one of the larger automotive groups in the country and come across many issues but never in this time did I come across a manufacturer stating that such a significant safety issue/problem be a normal characteristic of his car. Going on past experience there would be lots of people in the population that would be driving this car and not knowing that it is pinging. The service departments are certainly not going to raise this matter with clients at servicing as they know they can’t fix it. They clearly have an engine management issue. We purchase our cars new and replace them at a max of three years of age. This is the first and last Ford that I will ever purchase. It is a shame as the balance and dynamics of the car are great.
The issue has now been raised with Senior Technical people at Ford. We have decided to give the dealership some more time to investigate further as Ford Technical are requesting further session reports.

Ford Customer service are still sticking to the it is a normal characteristic of the car. I have requested this in writing . I asked why Ford do not state this in sales material or at time of purchase. They used the line you need to talk to the dealership on that one.

[Fiesta_Man69]

I agree. The issue is so serious I'm considering selling, taking the loss and looking at buying one of the new Kia Rios (the new model arriving in the next 2 months). Looks awesome and has a 1.6 103kW engine....

Hyundai/Kia also rate a lot higher on customer satisfaction reviews too.

[trumpy73]

For what it's worth I have the exact same problem with WS Fiesta. Purchased in July 2010.

It's been pinging badly from DAY1. I raised this during the 1st service and the response was "They all do it, you need to use High Octane Fuel". I used 98RON fuel for 2 months and it didn't make much difference, then started using 95RON and pretty much the same.
I discussed this with the dealership to some extent and they're pretty clueless/useless.

The manual clearly states 91RON but it says if you use it the vehicle may make some additional NOISE (i.e pinging). So it's just a BS way of putting it. Either way 95/98 doesn't fix it.

I really can't be bothered following this up as I have no time. Also I'm hoping that once I change the oil for the first time to something fully synthetic it may make a difference. Although I highly doubt that.

I haven't experienced the cold weather hesitations and that's may be because I live in Perth and the temp rarely gets that low.

I'm very surprised not too many people are reporting this. It's either not that common or people hardly drive with the radio off.

If I had the time I will certainly chase this up but at the moment I don't need the aggravation.

[Fiesta_Man69]

The reason not many ppl are reporting it is because most owners are female, and generally speaking (I know there are some exceptions), these women wouldn't be aware that their fiesta is pinging. There are more than 3 people with this problem on this pro ford fan site: obviously the problem is widespread but ford are aware and will have crunched their numbers and obviously believe that the engines will last 3 yrs (or 45K based on the average 15K people drive per yr) before the warranty expires and it's the owners prob when the engine dies.

The WS fiesta appeared in Carsguide in the daily telegraph NSW today and it got slammed for pinging. The journalist who wrote the piece apparently got numerous reports of pinging: I was but one who complained.

[kboukes]

maybe just a WS problem then?

My WT is awesome, not a problem thus far!

[AuFairlaneV8]

Originally Posted by sundae

Update:

Ford told Fair Trading that they are waiting on a program from Germany to fix my car (a line they have been spinning me for months).

Ford could not give Fair Trading a fix date so I'm taking it to CTTT court.

Why would Ford need to get a program from Germany when the fiesta zetec is no longer made there?

Pretty much all they have to do to appease fair trading is show they are making an effort to fix things, so saying they waiting on a program from german fulfills that.

I will never buy a ford vehicle brand new because of issues I have had with ford service. 99 fairlane, $1600 service they convinced me I needed all sorts of things done, they made a mess of the transmission service and did not put in enough oil, didnt change when cold, possibly permant damage. 03BA xr8 had a recall on something around the diff, drive a few kays out of the dealership and oil all over mulgoa rd and the car back to the dealer on a flatbed. Simple things they do all the time and they don't get it right, would hate to take the car back for a some complicated warranty issue

[south21]

Hi all

I have posted this in another thread so I am just sharing

I thought I would fill you in on my fiesta and it's problems. I have 126 thousand ks on the clock, it's a cl model

1 The radio controls stopped working, fixed under warranty

2 The car almost stalls about once a week, you can be driving along then it just dies, it doesn't completley cut out, complained to ford a number of times but nothing they could do as when they test drove it did not happen.

3 3rd gear has alway been hard to engage, sometimes a small crunch complained about but they said we have topped the oil up in the gearbox and have adjusted the linkages, stil does it and yet sometimes it changes gear perfect.

4 A big worry here, is that my engine is very noisy when cold I took it to ford and they said the tappets need adjusting, now I know a bit about cars and I know that modern cars have hydraulic lifters so you do not need to adjust tappets, when I explained this to ford they said this model engine has shims under the camshaft post which need to be adjusted by adding more shims to and because it is regarded as an adjustment it is not covered by warranty, I fought long and hard with head office on this one but lost, by the way the cost to get your shims adjusted is around $1000,00.

5 The gearbox is stating to get a bit whinny in all gears

6 My ignition started playing up last week it would turn on ok but would not turn all the way to start the car, took to ford, they had a look and said their is a part inside the steering column that is worn and the steering column needs to be replaced as it is all one unit cost $ 1900.00 dollars, I could not afford this so they sent me around to an auto electrician who for $35 dollars wired me up a press button starter so now I turn ignition to on then press button to start, by the way I am going to send to the uk for the original start button that they use in their cars so at least it will look a bit original.


Anyway thats my experience with my ford Fiesta cl model, I made one big error when I bought it and that was I never actually test drove the car that I was actually purchasing, they did not have the colour that I wanted so It was ordered in and when it was ready to be picked up I just came in and drove it away, the dealer I bought mine at was sinclair ford penrith they have now moved to kingswood terrible service dept , they were alaways trying to fob me off, I ended up taking my car to cumberland Ford blacktown they were great but it was all too late.

Any way thats my story for my little fiesta, even though I have had a lot of problems I think it's a great little car.

kind regards to all

keith

[paulo7]

Well guys,
Very fortunate for me my fiesta has done 36000k in 18mths and its going really well.
And I've certainly got my fingers crossed that it continues that way, judging by the problems some of you have had.
South21, years ago I had a problem with 2nd gear in a Mitsubishi, and after lots of protesting they replaced the 2nd gear syncromesh in the gearbox.
If that's any use to you... Maybe double de-clutch between 2nd and third???

cheers
(as I contemplate changing my name to "fingers-crossed")

[south21]

Hi Paulo7

The funny thing is I can change down to 3rd from 4th no problems at all, still got 2 and a half years to pay it off so it has to stay for now.

[trumpy73]

Yeah going from 2nd to 3rd (crunch) is another common problem. Fortunately in my case though after about approx 8000k it has almost disappeared. I'm hoping the pinging will go away once the engine has run in as well. May be wishful thinking.

[csv8]

From Cars Guide 18/06/2011.
While we have had few complaints from Fiesta owners, those we have had have been rather damning.

Engine pinging is a common complaint and is something to be mindful of when test driving a potential purchase. Running the car on the more expensive higher-octane fuel doesn't necessarily fix the problem, and it rather defeats one of the purposes of buying small in the first place.

We have also had reports of cars that simply cutout for no apparent reason, and the fault hasn't been diagnosed.

Build quality can also be variable, so cast a critical eye over any cars under consideration for purchase and don't accept anything that's not quite right.

My comment : Obviously Ford have a problem with the Fez ? and they should be doing something about ,asap!!! or sales will fall. Ford cann't afford the Fez to fail.

http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/new...0_buyers_guide

[Spinner77]

Everybody will fully sympathise with you. But I suggest that Ford is not the problem.

It is interesting that the reviewer above made the comment first that

While we have had few complaints from Fiesta owners, ...

Fact is that every manufacturer will produce lemons and do. It's just an inescapable reality of mass manufacturing.

The problem is with our Clayton's Lemon Laws - the lemon laws you have when you're not having any. The solution is in changing the laws to give them bite.

You don't have to be Einstein to work out why our lemon laws are there mainly for laughs. There aren't enough votes in it.

Yet.

[Fiesta_Man69]

Spinner - Ford is not the problem?

You must be joking!

You believe that in 2011 substandard build quality and subsequent quality control is acceptable?

You believe that Fords aftersales "service" - ie doing nothing, treating customers as morons "pinging is a characteristic of Fiestas" from Troy at 13FORD @ 4.20pm on 8/6/11 is acceptable?

If Ford built decent cars lemon laws would be unnecessary, wouldn't they? These are $20K items, not cheap tvs....

Each dealer sells one or two Fiestas a week. Obviously you believe that checking each car sold thoroughly before delivery is a bridge too far. I disagree.

Considering this is a male dominated Ford FAN site, and 95% of Fiestas are bought by women, there are an alarming amount of "lemon" Fiestas being reported on here....

[Spinner77]

What I am saying is that if you had effective lemon laws, two things would happen:
(a) in cases like yours you would get a new car or your money back;
(b) there would be a serious incentive for the manufacturer and the dealer to have better quality control.

I suppose my argument is that you will always have some lemons, whatever you do.

The practical question is how to protect the retail buyer. A simple lemon law, like you get a new car or your money back, after, say, three attempts to get things right, seems to me the way to go.