Bathurst getting booring?

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by kircher

Production car racing isn't flawed. It showcases current technology, and pushes for improvement.

Yeah I'm sure manufacturers can afford to push for improvements JUST because they're losing in a racing series,they have far more exposure through magazines and TV.

That's why you need more than 1 class.

Yeah I'm sure sponsors want to jump on board a second rate class with minimal exposure.

They show all the other classes anyway at Bathurst so why put them in the same race? And how would you solve the problem of having no room for so many cars competing in the one race?

Last time I checked the GT class wasn't slow, and no production car racing is ever done on television, except for a little on SBS, so it's a little hard to rate something like that. Besides, if you want fast, watch Formula 1 or one of the other Formulas. Formula 1 shits on V8 supercars for speed. Why not allow more than 302 cubic inches if all people want is fast anyway? It might make it a bit more interesting.

Both a shown on FOXSPORTS as well. I watch F1 and get my open wheel racing fix, it's not close(though this year has been very entertaining)but I enjoy watching the pinnacle of motor racing. It's also NOT an Australian series competing around Australia.

Ever heard of Parity? it keeps the costs down and the racing close, which keeps the crowds coming back for more.

Again, if I could watch good racing on TV I would. I don't have all that much money to go to races every few weeks. I believe others would agree. I can't live in the past either, As I am young and have only ever known the one make series. Your opinion is clearly not the only one

And there's the problem, If no one pays to see these cars race then the series won't get sponsors which in turn will get minimal TV coverage.

[Peuty]

I dunno about you lot, but I don't want to see bogans in stock, slow HSV's and FPV's flogging around a circuit for a few hours. I want to see purpose built, fast race cars dicing with each other.

[kircher]

I don't see why production car racing has to be slow. GT1 is definitely not slow. They have the same power as V8 supercars, and don't weigh any more.

Edit: I mean GT3, GT1 is closer to prototype racing

[Peuty]

A Clubsport or GT is slow. Facts are facts. How can you compare a GT1 Porsche to one of the local cars? It's like comparing apples with wombats.

[hendrixhc]

I remember getting up early on october long weekends to wath the race from start to finish.

Now i wouldnt bother. I like motorsports but have lost interest due to the fact that all you hear is people biatching about losing 0.1 sec per lap due to the cool suit not working cutting driver concentration by 3.5% and increasing driver fatigue by 4.3%.

Racing has become all to much of a science and less of a get in drive like hell and hope to win.

Then again isnt this becoming the norm for all sports.

[Peuty]

You're right mate, but with the advances in technology, the teams would be mad to not take advantage of it all. Bathurst is still the one race that I am happy to sit down and watch all day long.

[KPOJ]

Originally Posted by kircher

I don't see why production car racing has to be slow. GT1 is definitely not slow. They have the same power as V8 supercars, and don't weigh any more.

Edit: I mean GT3, GT1 is closer to prototype racing

Have you ever seen a gt3 viper or aston up close, they have a bit of work in them.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Peuty

I dunno about you lot, but I don't want to see bogans in stock, slow HSV's and FPV's flogging around a circuit for a few hours. I want to see purpose built, fast race cars dicing with each other.

Quoted for truth.

All these whingers should turn on SBS if they want their showroom racing.


Times change, in the 70's road cars and racing cars had very little difference in technology, and ADR's were more open, so you could get potent race cars as production cars. Its the same all over the world, many catagory that started out as a production class as turned into a class with purpose built race cars.

For the most part, production car racing is a bore, its not as interesting to see and manufacturers (in australia) don't show too much interst in it.

[Falcman0o7]

Yup.

But we still love it.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by kircher

I don't see why production car racing has to be slow. GT1 is definitely not slow. They have the same power as V8 supercars, and don't weigh any more.

Edit: I mean GT3, GT1 is closer to prototype racing

V8's sit between GT2 and GT3 anway, GT3 cars are fairly well modifed for "production cars"

[castellan]

People are now starting to realise that it is not a ford vs holden race at all.
It has been using the ford and holden name's to push this rot.
There was nothing boring or deceitful in watching the old jiggers race.
A new XR6 turbo would be faster then a old GT-HO any way.
It would be good to see how the new cars perform and last in the true bathurst sprit.

[Angeldust]

ok so i just wathced the driver line up... :( who are all these rookies?

[kircher]

Originally Posted by Peuty

A Clubsport or GT is slow. Facts are facts. How can you compare a GT1 Porsche to one of the local cars? It's like comparing apples with wombats.

Well Perhaps they don't deserve to be racing then. I can be certain if there was still production car racing, the XR8s and SSs people buy now would be faster. They have no competition, which is why they are so far behind the 8 ball. Everybody knows that factory racing improves cars. Just look at the Corvette Z06. It's technology is almost lifted directly from Le Mans. And the ZR1 is an evolution of that again, and not many vehicles even come close to its performance.

Originally Posted by Peuty

You're right mate, but with the advances in technology, the teams would be mad to not take advantage of it all. Bathurst is still the one race that I am happy to sit down and watch all day long.

That doesn't make any sense. There are no advancements in technology. The engines are Windsor and SBC based. I know they're great engines, but it has nothing to do with Holden and Ford now, so why put a Falcon or Commodore body on at all? The production cars also have much more sophisticated suspension systems too. The most advanced part of the suspension is probably the Watt's linkage.

Sometimes I just think people are still bitter about the Aussie cars being inferior to the imports from back in the old days. I was only a toddler when the changes were happening so I wouldn't know personally. I can only speculate. I do know that V8 supercars don't deserve to look like commodores and falcons. I also know it used to be about the car, not "how close can we make the competition".

I just want to say I'm not having a go at anyone, and I admit I'm going to watch the race and probably enjoy it. I just wish there was a bit more competition, and I firmly believe production cars are improved when they are used for racing. Also, forgive me for romanticising over being able to buy a car from Ford or whoever, drive it to Bathurst, put some tyres on and race.

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by kircher

Well Perhaps they don't deserve to be racing then. I can be certain if there was still production car racing, the XR8s and SSs people buy now would be faster. They have no competition, which is why they are so far behind the 8 ball. Everybody knows that factory racing improves cars. Just look at the Corvette Z06. It's technology is almost lifted directly from Le Mans. And the ZR1 is an evolution of that again, and not many vehicles even come close to its performance.
.

You're certain? How can you be? They are 4 door Australian family cars for heavens sake, how fast do you want our road cars to be? And who are their competitors in the market that 'put them far behind the 8 ball'?????

So let me get this straight, YOU want our PREMIER racing series to be PRODUCTION spec cars that can be bought at the dealership?

Show me one series in another country that use production spec cars as their leading motorsport series.

The Z06 is raced around the world so costs can be justified and I doubt Australian Manufacturers would be able to justify costs. The ZR1 has nothing to do with racing technology, what race car uses it's engine?

I just want to say I'm not having a go at anyone, and I admit I'm going to watch the race and probably enjoy it. I just wish there was a bit more competition, and I firmly believe production cars are improved when they are used for racing. Also, forgive me for romanticising over being able to buy a car from Ford or whoever, drive it to Bathurst, put some tyres on and race

As has been said, we already have production car racing....go watch it and support it!

[Cabbage]

I too loved the Bathurst races when there were 50+ cars on the grid, different makes and models but my memory of those races is that quite often they were not close races. By the end of the race there were very few on the lead lap and the last laps were not exciting necessarily. Maybe its the advent of the safety car that keeps so many cars on the lead lap and keeps the cars bunched up, mabe its because the fords and Holdens are pretty evenly matched but you get a good race right to the end and usually an exciting finish. It was cool though to see BMW's racing against Jags, racing against Holdens and fords and a Nissan Bluebird FFS.

[kircher]

Originally Posted by austyphoon

You're certain? How can you be? They are 4 door Australian family cars for heavens sake, how fast do you want our road cars to be? And who are their competitors in the market that 'put them far behind the 8 ball'?????

So let me get this straight, YOU want our PREMIER racing series to be PRODUCTION spec cars that can be bought at the dealership?

Show me one series in another country that use production spec cars as their leading motorsport series.

The Z06 is raced around the world so costs can be justified and I doubt Australian Manufacturers would be able to justify costs. The ZR1 has nothing to do with racing technology, what race car uses it's engine?



As has been said, we already have production car racing....go watch it and support it!

Well our PERFORMANCE cars are way behind the 8 ball. a Falcon XT or G6E or Holden Omega or Calais for example is not a performance car. I am not talking about them. And yes I am saying I would prefer the race series to be based on production cars. Not necessarily showroom spec though. I should have clarified that. For example, a stripped out Commodore with a roll cage, with a modified LS engine could easily make as much power as the V8 SC, and be at a similar weight. throw on some slicks, bigger brakes, some aero mods with different springs and dampers and you have a quick race car. The modular V8 can make 450kW and 640Nm in 5L form too.

Production car racing does great things for car development. Jaguar used disk brakes successfully in racing, and now they're universal. VAG now almost universally use FSI (direct injection) on their petrol engines, and they developed it in Le Mans. Need I mention overhead cams and fuel injection? Those are just a few 'innovations' that come to mind. Restricting technology is counter-productive. Not to mention, if they tested your commodore or falcon at a 1000km race, you'd know you had a durable well handling car. Plus it'd be a bit more exciting seeing road cars going around a track fast, and the better car would stand out. If one car or make of cars wins by 10 laps whether it be a commodore, falcon or whatever, then great. It proves who makes a better performance car. Use air restrictors to even the playing field if you must. Innovation and technology is a good thing remember?

I don't know of any Premier race series that uses showroom fresh production cars, but the first 2 events that come to mind are 24 Hours of Le Mans and the 24 Hour Nurburgring. They aren't a 2 make (basically one make) series like v8 supercars, and they allow production car racing and prototype racing.

Oh and the ZR1 is basically a Z06 with magnetic dampers and new tyres. The engine is still an LS series and it shares much of the tech developed by the C5R used in Le Mans racing.

And before anyone says production car racing is slow again, google how V8 supercars have competed in the 24 Hours of Nurburgring AGAINST production cars.

[GoesLikeAZetec]

I cant believe how many tv ads have been on this bathurst... its ridiculous... i know more about kfc burgers than whats happening with the race...

[Hubble80]

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Getting, long got boring.

Bathurst is now like the V8 nutters version of Mardi gras.

Put a GT & R8 on track for 1000kms with a set number of tyre changes only and let's see a real race.
Race Sunday, drive Monday.

enough of this tart up kit special rubbish where the only difference is some stickers...

I agree totally hoon! It is beginning to be like Nascar. All tube frame cars with differing badges and body panels. The only Holden/Ford parts are probably the head and tail lights and the badges.

[GoesLikeAZetec]

Yep I agree too... Its not Holden V Ford anymore... You cant buy these cars or anything close to it.. I miss the Showroom Showdown they used to have...

It was awesome seeing HSV,FPV,WRX,EVO, BMW's etc all going together.

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by kircher

And before anyone says production car racing is slow again, google how V8 supercars have competed in the 24 Hours of Nurburgring AGAINST production cars.

HAHAHA!!!!! that V8 supercar was taken over by an amateur (Mal rose) with an old V8 supercar (5 year old ex Larry perkins car) Please! No doubt if a top team decided to go over they would make a much better go of it.

Our performance cars aren't WAY BEHIND, why do you keep saying that? Show me another 4 door sedan that costs the same as a XR6T, XR8, SS? Austraia is different.
This is an Australian series, how could the manufacturers in Australia justify the costs? Again you are comparing cars that are raced all around the world and are close to supercar levels like the GT3 RS, Aston Martin, ZO6, Audi R8, Gumpert.

Every major series (re DTM, BTCC) stick to a couple of manufacturers and regulate the series to KEEP COSTS DOWN, that's what it comes down too.

No one wants to see a one horse race or an uncompetitive series, they aren't successful! V8 supercars WORKS!

[flappist]

Originally Posted by timothyds

iv been watching some dvds of old Bathurst 1000 races and they used to start 58 cars! these were broken into 2 or 3 classes. I think we need to go back to this set up for Bathurst as its a bit dull with 25-30 starters all in one class. Does anyone else agree?? They should rut the V8 Supercars, the Fujitsu cars and the V8 Utes all together, this would add to the excitment like we had in the good old days and give more drivers a shot to show their stuff and also bring back the privateers who used to run but could not fund a front runner they could put tofether a ute. well let me know what you think, i hope we get some other manufacturers in soon also as 2 make series is too restrictive.

In a country where people would rather watch televison shows like Big Brother, Home and away, World Championship Wrestling, Australian Idol, Masterchef, So you think you can dance et. al. instead of documentaries, world news, Catalyst, Australian Story, or in fact anything that is not formula designed chewing gum for the brain you expect broadcasting of ACTUAL production vehicle racing instead of manufactured artificially tribalised scripted dancing on wheels?

Are you nuts?????

It is all about money and V8SC is a very controlled, merchandise driven made for television, 12 part mini series that makes a fortune just like Australian Idol, So you think you can dance and every other dumbed down "entertainment" that is forced upon us.

Take away TV and V8SC would die, you cant have a TV show without TV.

They tie up all the tracks and commercial broadcasters in legal contracts in order to prevent any other "opposition" product getting a foothold.

But be careful....

If you were to ever say that Big Brother was absolute crap the Big Brother enthusiasts will arc up and scream how well it rated and how wonderful it was, well up until the average person finally woke up to it and it was discontinued and replaced with something equally silly but different.

As they will one day to V8SC.......

[GTP 290]

If anything would need to change to make the V8 series better it would be a new rule to be put in place where all teams have to use genuine Ford or Holden chassis and body unmodified. Sure add roll cages and spoilers etc but the thing that shits me the most would have to be the fact that 99% of a V8 supercar is not anything you can use on the road.

[ORSM-XT]

You can't call bathurst boring! Bathurst is my favourite day of the year! It takes some skill to drive up and down a mountain 161 times! I don't think it needs a variety of cars. Ford V Holden is Australia's biggest rivarly...

Its called V8 Supercars, not 4T Buzz Box Battle.

[BOSHOG]

bathurst is getting rather dull with very little actual overtaking, except for safety cars of course.

i think to make it more exciting the cars need to be closer to something you and me can actually buy, i also agree that other manufacturers be allowed to enter, which means removing V8 from the name of the supercars series, allowing FI vehicles to participate under controlled conditions

my case in point, 15 laps to go, and tander has it wrapped up barring a mishap

[kircher]

Originally Posted by flappist

In a country where people would rather watch televison shows like Big Brother, Home and away, World Championship Wrestling, Australian Idol, Masterchef, So you think you can dance et. al. instead of documentaries, world news, Catalyst, Australian Story, or in fact anything that is not formula designed chewing gum for the brain you expect broadcasting of ACTUAL production vehicle racing instead of manufactured artificially tribalised scripted dancing on wheels?

Are you nuts?????

It is all about money and V8SC is a very controlled, merchandise driven made for television, 12 part mini series that makes a fortune just like Australian Idol, So you think you can dance and every other dumbed down "entertainment" that is forced upon us.

Take away TV and V8SC would die, you cant have a TV show without TV.

They tie up all the tracks and commercial broadcasters in legal contracts in order to prevent any other "opposition" product getting a foothold.

But be careful....

If you were to ever say that Big Brother was absolute crap the Big Brother enthusiasts will arc up and scream how well it rated and how wonderful it was, well up until the average person finally woke up to it and it was discontinued and replaced with something equally silly but different.

As they will one day to V8SC.......

Well said. I sometimes think people only like it so they can shut their eyes and pretend that their omega commodore and XT falcon can lap bathurst just as fast. If this isn't true, why put a Holden or Ford badge on it? Being beaten by "jap crap" must be too much.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by ORSM-XT

You can't call bathurst boring! Bathurst is my favourite day of the year! It takes some skill to drive up and down a mountain 161 times! I don't think it needs a variety of cars. Ford V Holden is Australia's biggest rivarly...

Its called V8 Supercars, not 4T Buzz Box Battle.

I think that's the point, it's not Ford v Holden at Bathurst and hasn't been for a LONG time.

[FreddyDUZ747]

If this race is boring then Im Bronwyn Bishop.Safety car,you beauty.

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by gilmore

If this race is boring then Im Bronwyn Bishop.Safety car,you beauty.

hi bronwyn, i have a question.... why do we need a yellow car out there to have a lead change?

[FreddyDUZ747]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

hi bronwyn, i have a question.... why do we need a yellow car out there to have a lead change?

So people dont die?

Maybe the car should be blue

[BOSHOG]

so youre actually happy theres no passing?

this is the first time i actually sat there and watched the race since ive owned a V8 and i feel.... well pretty unfulfilled lol

perhaps this is partly because ford pulled money from every team bar 2, meaning two thirds of the field was holden