Tips on using a road ranger gear box.

[Agent86]

when going for your licence, you MUST double clutch now. if you change clutchless AFTER you get the licence, good, but to do it on the test is instant DQ.

the best thing you can do is to get in the practice truck in a BIG open area like a deserted carpark and practice changing up and down the lower box.

once you can do this, then try the upper box as well. leave the splitter for once you are confident with full gears.

it may be useful for you to go for a run with your mate and watch the tacho, his accelerator foot and the gearshift, and see how its syncronised together to get a nice shift.

i find that gently accelerating then putting light pressure on the gearshift towards the next gear, then rolling gently off the throttle is the easiest way to get it to drop out of gear while learning. you then time the rpm drop to get it into the next gear from neutral. if you chop the throttle off it will 'grab' in gear and not want to change out.

personaly i tend to change very fast, split shift the top box ( 18 speed behind a c-12, so its torquey as all getout). but its taken me a few years of practice to get the timing down sweet. altho i find no use for jake shifting on the new elec engines. too much delay in the jake coming on.

the biggest thing, would be staying confident. once you become intimidated by the rig, you'll make mistakes. thats why i suggest a deserted area to play with the box.

[V8R]

some good advice from obviously experienced operators here
once you get good you'll find yourself doing it in yours / your mates diesel 4wds and light trucks, heh..

[schmidty]

Well i really wasn't sure how many posts i'd get back about this but the response has been great! Thanks for all of the advice! Greatly appreciate it. Jst goes to show what a wealth of knowledge and experience there is here on the forums on just about any question 1 cares to ask! Thought i had a little bit of an idea how it all worked but have gained some great tips and techniques to try out. My mate only drives once every few weeks. he's a transport manager so only drives if he needs to. Thought i might be better off with some tips from full timers or people with lots of experience, rather than an occasional driver.

I was looking at doing my license test locally in geelong, but yeah i've heard good things about DECA so i might try and get some more info about what the DECA course entails.

I'm a builder, and am really just sick of working weekends doing the same work as i do during the week. I've got a mate whos dad owns a huge business with about half a dozen of their own trucks and they are flat out between about september and march. They told me if i want weekend work driving i can have some. Just thinking about doing that to break the week up a bit. Its relatively hassle free compared to quoting, chasing materials, chasing money off people and permits and all of the other stuff you get sick of during the week! I'll make heaps less money but think i'll enjoy it more!

So basically it looks like i'm off to practice somewhere nice and quiet, and get all of my full gears sussed out and then when i get the hang of that i'll try and use them all. Most of the time their trucks run light enough loads that they only use full gears anyway, but i wanted to learn how to use it properly, not just guess so thanks for the info guys!

Cheers, Schmidty

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by ronwest

I don't know about modern RR's (my experience was with RT915's in the early to mid 70's).
We never used the clutch when the truck was moving but most important was to change gears with TWO definite but quick movements ie from the previous gear to neutral and then to next gear... it's hard to describe but sort of "click (neutral)...click (next gear)".

Last truck I had a drive of was a 460HP Volvo a few years ago and it was like changing gears in a car - synchro box, not as critical to match revs as in the old RR's.

Sorry Ron, not clutching is not a recommended practice these days, in fact Eaton (the makers of Road Rangers) get really upset if you drive them without the clutch.

They were originally designed to be driven without the clutch, but mechanics found that the sliding clutchs inside the box were wearing at unacceptable rates, this wearing allows the box to jump out of gear.

There are 3 sliding clutches in a road ranger and you can see very quickly by looking at these whether a driver has been using the clutch or not, there is a torque loading on the gears when you pull them out of gear and wears the bevelled edges of the gears down with time.

One of the other bad habits is to drop the range change button, then move the gear shift to neuatral as you rolling up to a red light/stop light, this puts both parts of the gearbox into neutral, there is a synchro ring in the rear part (the range change bit) and this practices wears it out really fast and it starts to grind.

And another bad habit is leave your hand resting on the gear lever as you are driving down the road, this puts pressure on the forks that go into the sliding clutches and wear them down to a razor edge until they break.

Just some more tips .

[Agent86]

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

Sorry Ron, not clutching is not a recommended practice these days, in fact Eaton (the makers of Road Rangers) get really upset if you drive them without the clutch.

all of your point while being true, doesnt take into account that SOMETHING has to wear. i know of new style gearboxes, like mine, that have never seen clutched shifts, and is ina fine state of repair on its origional bearings after 1.6 million klm. has been apart to check and was given a clean bill of health ( why they didnt re-race it is annoying, but it IS going sweet )

it all depends on the driver and how mechanicaly sympathetic they are.
Eaton fuller are also trying to discourage people from manual shifts and to option up to the autoshifts ;) , so be sure to add a grain of salt to some statements.

the general ruels of being gentle apply majorly to trucks, cause they might not break things the first or fitfty first time you buger them, but the next time might be the clincher where you break some big dollar parts and endure down time.

not saying its wrong, but look at the context things are used in and especially see where the info was gathered from. fleet trucks are generally hamered and break with lower klms/ hours on the parts than what most will achieve with a good owner/driver at the helm.

but having to pay for what you break is a great motivator to take car..

Good luck Might see you on the road soon

[jimt3te50]

Most of the info here has been pretty good- each engine and gearbox combination will be unique so the style of driving will vary, but the principles will remain the same- it's just working out where the revs are.

It's not a bad career path driving a truck- unfortunately the way the government went about "educating" people many years ago has left a huge hole in the workforce with so many shortages of skilled labour- the world will always need trucks and drivers and it's one of the few jobs I can think of where you can earn great money with virtually no education. That's not saying it's easy, but you don't need to be a university graduate to make $90k a year, but there are certainly responsibilities in this day and age with fatigue management, accreditation, OH&S etc.

I may well be assuming this is what you are intending to do, but for anyone having a MC or MC license in particular, you have great scope for employment with many opportunities that may also become available to you as a result.

I'm all for it- good on you mate and let us know how you go.

Then you can come and see me about a new Mack.......... lol

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by AceofSpades

altho i find no use for jake shifting on the new elec engines. too much delay in the jake coming on.

If you use the jake to change gears you need a good smack!

Originally Posted by CAMS290

Auto shifts and synchro boxes are for nancy boys !

Or for us old pharts that like to drive through towns and have both hands free for more important things...Drinking coffee, changing CD's, wiping up spilt coffee, etc

Originally Posted by Pedro

one way to help you do this is to grab hold of the gear knob very firmly ... like as if you let it go it's going to kill you.

Gunna have to disagree here. If you do it properly you can change with your fingertips.
A good guideline to if you are changing gear/accelerating properly is watch your passenger. If they rock backwards or forwards more than a few inches (showing my age here!) it aint smooth enough.

Originally Posted by jimt3te50

Then you can come and see me about a new Mack... lol

Dont do this. Go and drive a proper truck not a re-badged Renault

[MotherNatureVer2]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

If you use the jake to change gears you need a good smack!
Or for us old pharts that like to drive through towns and have both hands free for more important things...Drinking coffee, changing CD's, wiping up spilt coffee, etc

Gunna have to disagree here. If you do it properly you can change with your fingertips.
A good guideline to if you are changing gear/accelerating properly is watch your passenger. If they rock backwards or forwards more than a few inches (showing my age here!) it aint smooth enough.

Dont do this. Go and drive a proper truck not a re-badged Renault

Hehehehehe

Top post GasOLane ....... Having driven a few trucks in my time I thought I may be able to give a little input here but alas all you big truckie boys have done a great job ........

I do agree that a fingertip approach to gear changes is best ........ can still be confident doing it ..... could you all imagine a 5'1, 50kg gal hanging off a gear stick harshly whilst getting 20ton truck around a paddock !!!!!!! I dont think that would work at all... Be gentle with her & she will love you forever .......... :evilsasmo



Bottom line, well what Dad taught me was ..... ITS ALL ABOUT THE REVS py:

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by MotherNature

Hehehehehe

Top post GasOLane ....... Having driven a few trucks in my time I thought I may be able to give a little input here but alas all you big truckie boys have done a great job ........

I do agree that a fingertip approach to gear changes is best ........ can still be confident doing it ..... could you all imagine a 5'1, 50kg gal hanging off a gear stick harshly whilst getting 20ton truck around a paddock !!!!!!! I dont think that would work at all... Be gentle with her & she will love you forever .......... :evilsasmo



Bottom line, well what Dad taught me was ..... ITS ALL ABOUT THE REVS py:

BIG? I'm only about 5'7".. or whatever that is in new money

[MotherNatureVer2]

hahahahaha

5'7 makes me look shorter than I really am :P

[Jeeepers]

Originally Posted by schmidty

The truck i've got to have a practice is an Iveco 4500. And think its a 16 spd

If it's an Iveco 4500 16 speed, chances are it's a ZF box. (Synchro)

[jimt3te50]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Dont do this. Go and drive a proper truck not a re-badged Renault

I take it that comment was made in jest, but just to clear it up (it's always good to have accurate information :P)

The ONLY models that are "rebadged" Renault's are Midlums and Premiums- the imported side of the range that caters for the 8t- 12t payloads, from a demographic that wanted to be included in driving a Mack truck, that was previously overlooked. Given Mack bought Renault around 10 years ago, it is fair to say they have every right to wear the badge. Regardless of this, the public perception (and image) is these are not "proper" trucks anyway- given they are incapable of pulling trailers- they are a rigid-speciffic range only.

The Qantum (cab over) utilises the Renault-built cab only- no other components are sourced from the European Range- the underpinnings of a Qantum 6x4 are in fact the same as a Fleetliner..........

Every other truck is engineered and built by Mack.

Mack Trucks were bought out by Volvo Trucks roughly 5 years ago, after a second failed attempt to acquire Scania (a company owned mostly by Volkswagon) who also have shares in Hino. Daimler-Chrysler own Mercedes-Benz, Western Star (formerly White Trucks production plant in Canada, who were bought by Volvo Trucks and sold off), Freightliner and Sterling (previously Ford Trucks). Iveco bought International Trucks and emerged the brand name once more, Kenworth and DAF are both PACCAR products......

How many "proper" trucks are left?

For the record, Mack are the only "American" mainstream brand that still engineers and develops it's own engines, gearboxes, diffs, cabs, chassis and suspension systems- neither of the other US heavy hitters do this. You can still buy a truck that is Mack from the infamous Bulldog to the rear diff......

Anyway mate- good luck with the license and the second job, I hope it works out great for you and as I said I'm all for it, well done for having a go.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by jimt3te50

Mack bought Renault around 10 years ago

I thought it was the other way around, however, this all happened in 1986.

Originally Posted by jimt3te50

For the record, Mack are the only "American" mainstream brand that still engineers and develops it's own engines, gearboxes, diffs, cabs, chassis and suspension systems- neither of the other US heavy hitters do this. You can still buy a truck that is Mack from the infamous Bulldog to the rear diff......

That’s why all the others outsell Mack in Australia. How many people do you know that have almost been sent to the wall after buying an E7 475? Or back in the old days with the E9 400, 440 and 500 not to mention the latest boat anchor before they stopped making them, the E9 525.

A sure way to become a millionaire in the late eighties would have been to stock up on Dynatard camshafts and water pumps for the E9. You could have probably made a killing with liners as well, I’ve lost count of how many of them I’ve changed due to electrolysis caused by an incorrect ethylene glycol mix

The Mack triple countershaft gearbox wasn’t bad, however, the p1ss weak clutch pack synchroniser for the splitter let that down.

The most reliable Macks these days generally don’t have Mack drivelines in them. Also I’m pretty sure that Kenworth manufacture the Airglide range of rear suspensions used in Australia.

[jimt3te50]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

I thought it was the other way around, however, this all happened in 1986.

That’s why all the others outsell Mack in Australia. How many people do you know that have almost been sent to the wall after buying an E7 475? Or back in the old days with the E9 400, 440 and 500 not to mention the latest boat anchor before they stopped making them, the E9 525.

A sure way to become a millionaire in the late eighties would have been to stock up on Dynatard camshafts and water pumps for the E9. You could have probably made a killing with liners as well, I’ve lost count of how many of them I’ve changed due to electrolysis caused by an incorrect ethylene glycol mix

The Mack triple countershaft gearbox wasn’t bad, however, the p1ss weak clutch pack synchroniser for the splitter let that down.

The most reliable Macks theses days generally don’t have Mack drivelines in them, also I’m pretty sure that Kenworth manufacture the Airglide range of rear suspensions used in Australia.

I'm not going to wage war on what's better- I'm 26 years old, my dad sold Volvo Trucks for 16 years and I grew up with them, i've sold used trucks for 8 years now and new trucks for the last five and a half, 4 with Scania and over 100 trucks there and Mack Trucks for the last 14 months........ I'm in a good enough position to know the strengths and weaknesses of products from both sides of the world. Believe me- we all have our cross to bare.

The number of people my father saw lose everything because of 16 litre Volvo engines, the ones I saw cop consistent lame excuses from one of the largest independant truck manufacturers in the world was a joke......... I'm having customers I had forged good solid friendships with with one product coming to me now to buy exactly the opposite.

I want to let this subject go because there's no end to it. You can't write-off a company for what happened 20 years ago- everyones had their ups and downs, and market share is seldom a reflection of this. Look at Cummins Signature engines........ I would buy a Cummins engine twice over before I looked at a Cat for the reason of how the problems were handled when they had their spell a few years back. I've had an AU XR8 that cost me more money than I care to remember because it was a lemon of the tallest order but I still drive Fords- I've had four since.

BTW you are right about the Airglide suspension being built by Kenworth, but they do not make engines and they do not make gearboxes or diffs.

This is what I do, so I could type more than I care to but Mack has a reputation that is virtually carved in stone for a reason......

[Trevor 57]

Renault (Fiat) bought Mack

Using your fingertips to change a non-synchro is the only way - any other way and you haven't done it right.


The only truck you should jake change on is an old 5 speed Mack going up a hill - full stop!

Some very good drivers can change non-synchro boxes with out using the clutch, but you will still wear the sliding clutches in the box, every time you have gone to pull it out of gear and it hold/grabs a little you have taken a little more of the edges (come on 'fess up), PLUS Eaton will void your warranty. They can tell within 2 seconds of pulling the top off a box whether a driver has been using the clutch or not. I can jump in a truck, drive it for 100 mtrs and tell if a driver uses the clutch or not.


And for what it is worth, if I owned a truck and drove it myself I would have a F16 Volvo, if I owned a truck and was going to put a driver in it I would own a Value-Liner Mack with a 9 speed Mack gearbox and the 350hp Mack engine, and I would say "try and break that you bastards" :eclipsee_

[CAMS290]

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

Sorry Ron, not clutching is not a recommended practice these days, in fact Eaton (the makers of Road Rangers) get really upset if you drive them without the clutch.

What really stuffs RR Gearboxes is people driving along resting their hands on the gear stick, it wears the shift forks down and causes them to drop off into the rest of gearbox.

It was a real problem with the 14series and 16series 18 speeds, since then the forks have been redigned.

BTW, i bet if a Eaton Technician pulled my 15 speed down, they couldnt tell i have been shifting without a clutch.

It is the same as them telling you that you should stop fully before shifting from deep reduction into low range.....what a load of rubbish.

i dont know why they call them 15 speeds anyway, they only have 12 usable forward gears.

[Agent86]

i will dissagree on the not jake changing.
there are some hills that when im up on my weights, and have accelerated from the lights at the bottom, the only way to go up is to jake change( almost NEVER do it tho ). i learnt it just so i can do it if the need ever arises.
if my gear grabs, i dont force it, i just tap the clutch. no sense in dragging it out, cause then it will probably throw into a wrong gear.

as far as only very good drivers being able to clutchless change, i wouldnt rate my self as anything too special, just a typical person who respects the equipment. unlike some "fleet" drivers....
i couldnt care about the eaton warranty as the only box i have killed absolutley shattered when a bearing cage parted company with the bearing and went thru several cogs. this was due to the tool who re-raced it using cheap ****ty bearings..

apart from the gears broken, there was negligable wear on an old 9 speed butterbox that had been clutchless shifted all its life. it was all WELL within spec at 1.5 million of local work. just proved to expensive to get the cogs that broke to resurect it.

all it takes is some mechanical sympathy and a decent operator to do it. using the clutch all the time just wears it out and tires the driver. i was instructed NOT to use it when learning. have been instructed by several mechs not to, so as i have had no adverse i wont but each to their own.

[schmidty]

Originally Posted by redfin

If it's an Iveco 4500 16 speed, chances are it's a ZF box. (Synchro)

Found out it is an 18 Speed

[schmidty]

The posts have been really helpful. I'm glad i asked the question on here because i've gained a hell of a lot more insight and tips than i would have got from an occasional driver, and am a lot more confident to have a go now. Going to have a try at it next week, and i'll book in for my license sometimes in the next 3 or 4 weeks. Looking forward to getting out on the road now! Glad i'm persuing it. Thanks guys.

Cheers

Schmidty

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by CAMS290

What really stuffs RR Gearboxes is people driving along resting their hands on the gear stick, it wears the shift forks down and causes them to drop off into the rest of gearbox.

You are spot on, I said the same thing in one of my earlier posts

Originally Posted by CAMS290

BTW, i bet if a Eaton Technician pulled my 15 speed down, they couldnt tell i have been shifting without a clutch.

Bet they could, next time you are talking to a mechanic that has good Road Ranger experience ask them.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by AceofSpades

i will dissagree on the not jake changing.
there are some hills that when im up on my weights, and have accelerated from the lights at the bottom, the only way to go up is to jake change( almost NEVER do it tho ). i learnt it just so i can do it if the need ever arises.
if my gear grabs, i dont force it, i just tap the clutch. no sense in dragging it out, cause then it will probably throw into a wrong gear.

The way to change fast from a standing start uphill is to take it out of gear without the clutch, as soon as it's out of gear push the clutch all the way to the floor (fast), this engages the clutch brake, then into the next gear. This is according to an old 13spd Eaton manual that I read ages ago. It works well but timing has to be perfect.

Although to be fair I was doing it on a 'W' Model where the gearstick goes straight into the box (no cables or linkages)

But enough of this, I'd better give schmidty his thread back and wait for the test results to be posted.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

It works well but timing has to be perfect.

You are bloody spot on there, bloody perfect, and I can assure Eaton don't recommend it any more.

[GasoLane]

Oh and schmidty, the one thing you should never do is play with the splitter button whilst driving, no matter how bored you are.

Especially half way down the Moonbi range (Nth of Tamworth NSW) in a B double... trust me on this

[schmidty]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Oh and schmidty, the one thing you should never do is play with the splitter button whilst driving, no matter how bored you are.

Especially half way down the Moonbi range (Nth of Tamworth NSW) in a B double... trust me on this

Ha! I've gotta know the story behind this!

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by schmidty

Ha! I've gotta know the story behind this!

hehheh... not really a story but, how am I gonna explain this... The splitter is worked by lack of pressure on the gearbox not by air pressure like the high/low shift. So if there is no pressure on the gearbox whilst you are 'splitting' it changes range... did that make sense?

Anyway the Moonbi range is about 10kms of downhill running with safety ramps every 500mtrs or so (it's steep!) and being a tad bored due to going quite slow I'm flicking the splitter button in time with the music.

Unfortunately my foot must have touched the accelerator (taking the pressure off of the g'box) because about half way down had a gearbox full of neutral!

I can say that nothing wakes you up quicker than a 60tonne B-Double wanting to run off a hill

[schmidty]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

hehheh... not really a story but, how am I gonna explain this... The splitter is worked by lack of pressure on the gearbox not by air pressure like the high/low shift. So if there is no pressure on the gearbox whilst you are 'splitting' it changes range... did that make sense?

Anyway the Moonbi range is about 10kms of downhill running with safety ramps every 500mtrs or so (it's steep!) and being a tad bored due to going quite slow I'm flicking the splitter button in time with the music.

Unfortunately my foot must have touched the accelerator (taking the pressure off of the g'box) because about half way down had a gearbox full of neutral!

I can say that nothing wakes you up quicker than a 60tonne B-Double wanting to run off a hill

Ha! i could imagine that would have woken you up and taken your mind off being bored! I'll keep that 1 on the list of things not to do! Save me finding it out halfway down the mountain!

[schmidty]

Well i finally got out in the truck yesterday for a couple of hours! Took half an hour and a lot of crunching to get things sorted out. Got going up gears all sorted out no worries, just need to sort out changing down gears. I let the revs come down to about 1000rpm, clutch - neutral - big pump - clutch - crrrrrrrrrrrunch - crrrrrrrrrrunch. I'm getting it in 2/4 changes, but usually still with a bit of a crunch. Got changing up gears pretty much down pat. Usually only a tiny into 1 gear out of the lot. And remembered about firm positive gear changes. If i shifted confidently i nailed every change, if i hesitated or worried i screwed them up. Didnt even bother trying to use the splitter yet. Any easier way to get the hang of down changes? And if you're coming to a stop at lights and in top gear, how many gears would u usually come back down through?

[V8R]

goo to see youre now out there having a crack..
there are a cpl of schools of thought on slowing, but i'd guess that most here would subscribe to the one that says somehting about being in a gear that will "drive" the truck out of trouble, right up to the point where youre might be rolling along >5km.h.. all depends on weights (you can get away with a bit more brake usage, empty) really and traffic..
I personally prefer to always have a gear handy.
the best way to get familiar with changing down the box is really to take note of what rpm = gear = roadspeed. i think it was explained earlier, takes alot of practise

[Full Noise]

There are a lot of variables regarding stopping at lights, it’s always best to try and keep the thing moving, however, this isn’t always possible or practical. You will eventually learn how to read the traffic in a way that will automatically give you the best idea for which gear to grab to suit the speed you’re travelling at.

If you have to jump on the anchors in a big hurry, it’s best to jump on the clutch as well as you’re not trying to pull up the inertia that the engine has created.

Cheers, Danny

[schmidty]

was a bit suprised about how fast the revs did drop. thought the 400 rpm wasn't going to drop so fast. Yeah can see its going to take a lot of practice. Was actually also suprised at how hard it is to get right! You sit next to someone with a lot of experience and watch them and it looks so easy. Also if i miss getting a gear on a down change, how do i get a gear again? A few times i botched down changes and pretty much had to stop to slect a gear again, or a few times i just grabbed the gear i had come out of, then started the process again