My views on the Performance Car Market

[flappist]

Originally Posted by GT0132

Pretty provocative statement you make there

Hang on a minute?

So the bloke who tarts up his NA XR6 with stripes, lowers it with 19" copy rims but does no performance enhancing mods is labelled an FPV wannabe because he has the show but not the go and the guy who buys the real deal gets labelled a "pretender" because he orders the stripe package instead of bigger brakes ???

One of the reasons you may not have had a good response from AFF members is the distance to get there for most and the boredom factor.
If i'm taking a week off work I'd rather spend it on a beach in Fiji.. drinking beer and cocktails, maybe a surf or two than driving to the back of Goodndawindi to see how fast my car will go.

The distance from me to the border is 2000km, 2 days drive (driving at night out west is crazy) BUT I LIKE DRIVING and I LIKE DRIVING FAST. I do 35000-50000km a year and have done so almost almost every year since 1976 except for 1978 when I did 250,000km in that year. My Z already has over 30,000km on it and I did about 200,000km in my FPVs.

To me, two days drive to get to a week or two of fun in my car is far better than sitting in a big aluminium tube for a number of hours to go to a place where I will do exactly the same thing as I can do at home.
Maybe if I was a surfing enthusiest I would fly to other countries to surf, I am sure there are lots of people who do so.
I used to know a couple of surfing enthiusiests quite well. They drove all over Australia to catch the big waves. Torquay, Cottelsoe, Leuwin and lots of other places that took days or weeks to get to and when there would sit on their boards sometimes for hours just to get ONE good wave. They were not pretenders and did not worry about being bored.

On the other hand I often see on the beaches lots of people who have big shiny surfboards and all the surf clothes etc. that never seem to actually get in the water of if they do it is only at the safe popular beaches where others can see them being "surfies".
I wonder if they talk a lot about surfing heritage, the best boards, what wax makes the best ride and other seaweed crap instead of actually going out and surfing?

It is interesting to note though that the "surfing enthusiest" retailers seem to stock and sell far more "pretender" items than "actual" surfer items. Ever seen the ads on TV? Lots of bikinis, board shorts and t-shirts not much actual surfing. They are surfies not surfers.

So it comes back to actual sales, when the buyers would rather spend a week in Fiji than drive their car fast why would anyone try to sell an expensive fast car over a cheaper pretty car that looks like a fast car?

As far as tarting up a base model. If the owner actually gets out and drives his cheaper base model then he is not a pretender he is just not in a position to buy a better car. If on the other hand he tarted it up and then spends all his time an maccas car parks or sipping cocktails in Bali rather than drive then he may be a car enthusiest but he is definitely not a driving enthusiest.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Here's a question that's sure to raise the blood pressure for a few:
What will happen to the f6 should FPV get a turbo V8 option in 2010....???????

Easy answer :

FPV will then delete the stripe option kit on the V8 and introduce it to the F6 model...........according to some on here...........its what sells performance cars....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ESP

Easy answer :

FPV will then delete the stripe option kit on the V8 and introduce it to the F6 model...........according to some on here...........its what sells performance cars....

So you don't remember late 2002 when FPV was formed and the GT was first announced?
All the pettioning and lobbying from clubs and individuals to actually have factory stripes available?
Happy Jack's announcement that bought cheers of joy from the masses?

Other than that there have been more FPVs (all models included) sold with factory stripes than without and the majority of stripes were a "paid for" option (that is GT & Pursuit vs. GT-P, SP & F6X)

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by ESP

Easy answer :

FPV will then delete the stripe option kit on the V8 and introduce it to the F6 model...........according to some on here...........its what sells performance cars....

The cynic in me says...yes...

Win on Sunday, sell on Monday no longer applies. We got our soul from Improved Production racing but it does not exist anymore; without waffling off on a new tangent...what came 1,2 and 3 in this years Improved Production Racing? That advertisement from the Heart Foundation where the woman tries to buy a "TICK" from a vending machine? Seem relevant?

Others don't seem to be too afraid to get out on the track or in the forrest and prove their racing pedigree. Isn't that what makes a performance car, a performance car? I can hot up a Toyota Hiace to do 9 second quarter mile's all day given a budget big enough...would that make plumbers buy more of them?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't misunderstand: I have blue blood and the latest Ford/FPV products are pretty good: technologically quantum leaps over the old stuff, more comfortable, tractable etc. etc. and I would very much like a new V8 product...but it doesn't inspire when the product is too fragile to compare with the fading memories...

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

The cynic in me says...yes...

Win on Sunday, sell on Monday no longer applies. We got our soul from Improved Production racing but it does not exist anymore; without waffling off on a new tangent...what came 1,2 and 3 in this years Improved Production Racing? That advertisement from the Heart Foundation where the woman tries to buy a "TICK" from a vending machine? Seem relevant?

Others don't seem to be too afraid to get out on the track or in the forrest and prove their racing pedigree. Isn't that what makes a performance car, a performance car? I can hot up a Toyota Hiace to do 9 second quarter mile's all day given a budget big enough...would that make plumbers buy more of them?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't misunderstand: I have blue blood and the latest Ford/FPV products are pretty good: technologically quantum leaps over the old stuff, more comfortable, tractable etc. etc. and I would very much like a new V8 product...but it doesn't inspire when the product is too fragile to compare with the fading memories...

And I am not including V8SC as it is Formula Racing and I know what you are going to say..."That's what sells the new GT's and R8's" Which is true to a point...

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

And I am not including V8SC as it is Formula Racing and I know what you are going to say..."That's what sells the new GT's and R8's" Which is true to a point...

I do understand what you're saying......

I also have never seen an AMG Merc or AUDI RS or BMW M spec or Ferrari F40 or Bugatti Veyron or Zonda F1 production car race..................

What makes the buyer for the Enzo ferrari buy the Ferrari instead of the Bugatti etc etc......... The Bugatti is the faster car..........surely the Ferrari buyer is then just a car enthusiast and not a driving enthusiast.........HE MUST BE........HE BOUGHT THE SLOWER CAR.....according to some.

For me personally..........I still would have bought the GT instead of the F6 regardless of stripe or brake option. YES, I like the way it looks, but I also like the way it drives and performs. Its a daily driver and gets a workout quite often...tyres , brakes and rotors all need replacing ..GT has done 26,000 Klms !!!!!!
Yes I would have liked a little more performance from factory..but that's irrelevant in todays aftermarket tunability............TOTALLY IRRELEVANT.

My long term plans for my GT include a PD S/C...........I'm also pretty sure that MOST F6 buyers will go ahead and mod their F6.

The fact that I didn't opt for the car that was quicker out of the box was totally irrelevant for me.........didn't care one rats %^&*

There will always be a quicker version of the car you own no matter what........How does one F6 owner feel when he gets his doors blown off by an XR6T owner with mods.............does he sit there and smile and say to himself at the track..........."gee......that's OK.......I got thrashed by another T car.......that must be OKAY"..........or does he feel like a moron for buying the faster car out of the BOX only to have his rear end served to him by a car wich cost 20K less ????????..............does it make him a car enthusiast and not a driving enthusiast because he got scalped ?????

.........he'll probably end up at his favourite tuning shop doing what he can afford to make his car better handling and faster. The number of people on here that have modded their cars is testament to the fact THAT MOST OF US WILL MOD OUR FPV's..looking for performance enhancements......F6 or GT

Horses for courses........both cars can be modified to achieve some fantastic results...albeit much more costly for us BOSS owners.........but that certainly doesn't stop us from doing it........but alas we digress..........and once again we end up with the age old 6T v V8 argument........:togo:

Now back the topic at hand........I'm kinda thinking that its never been a better time for people looking for Aussie performance vehicles..........so many F6's and GT's on the 2nd hand car market and all so accessible in terms of $$........best bang for your buck in decades......re leasing options have never been so varied either........F6 F6E Gt GTP GTE.........and their RRP pricing is falling as well......double bonus.

[5.4 GT]

Originally Posted by colossus

They have no ingrained love of V8's, to them turbos are king - its not their time yet though it wouldnt hurt for FPV and HSV to start marketing to them and appealing to them with hero models (The Focus XR5T and HSV VXR are good starts but they lack AWD and many don't like hatches - they want coupes.)

I'm not so sure about that... I'm 22 and have an FPV GT.

Some "Hero models" for myself and a lot of my friends are cars such as the Audi R8, RS4, C63AMG, BMW E46 and E92 M3s (coupes only thanks), Lexus IS-F and Nissan GTR (I'm personally not a big fan of the last 2 but a lot of my friends are). 2 out of these 7 cars are powered by a 6 cylinder and only 1 is powered by turbos. The rest are powered by V8s.

It is true though that the younger generation cares less about the "old-school" muscle cars (especially the Australian ones). We weren't around for the Moffat battles and hence really don't care that much about the old X series etc. Can still appreciate a good Mustang or Camaro though.

I drove an FG F6 and whilst it was epically quick for rolling acceleration in gear (off the line it was a bit of a dud even stalled up), it just didn't have the character of my GT. The turbo only made me grin whilst going flatout. The GT makes you smile even when doing 40km/h or rocking at the lights.

The same thing about lack of character has been said about the Nissan GTR, hence why it didn't make the list for me in "Hero model" cars. Yes it is epically fast but if you watch the Clarkson DVD Thriller (good show) you'll see he points out exactly the same problem.

I don't consider an Evo or STi to be a "hero model" either... it's not something I'd aspire to. In fact the only turbo I can think of that I'd think of as an aspirational model is the Porsche 997 911 GT2.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by ESP

I do understand what you're saying......

I also have never seen an AMG Merc or AUDI RS or BMW M spec or Ferrari F40 or Bugatti Veyron or Zonda F1 production car race..................

What makes the buyer for the Enzo ferrari buy the Ferrari instead of the Bugatti etc etc......... The Bugatti is the faster car..........surely the Ferrari buyer is then just a car enthusiast and not a driving enthusiast.........HE MUST BE........HE BOUGHT THE SLOWER CAR.....according to some.

For me personally..........I still would have bought the GT instead of the F6 regardless of stripe or brake option. YES, I like the way it looks, but I also like the way it drives and performs. Its a daily driver and gets a workout quite often...tyres , brakes and rotors all need replacing ..GT has done 26,000 Klms !!!!!!
Yes I would have liked a little more performance from factory..but that's irrelevant in todays aftermarket tunability............TOTALLY IRRELEVANT.

My long term plans for my GT include a PD S/C...........I'm also pretty sure that MOST F6 buyers will go ahead and mod their F6.

The fact that I didn't opt for the car that was quicker out of the box was totally irrelevant for me.........didn't care one rats %^&*

There will always be a quicker version of the car you own no matter what........How does one F6 owner feel when he gets his doors blown off by an XR6T owner with mods.............does he sit there and smile and say to himself at the track..........."gee......that's OK.......I got thrashed by another T car.......that must be OKAY"..........or does he feel like a moron for buying the faster car out of the BOX only to have his rear end served to him by a car wich cost 20K less ????????..............does it make him a car enthusiast and not a driving enthusiast because he got scalped ?????

.........he'll probably end up at his favourite tuning shop doing what he can afford to make his car better handling and faster. The number of people on here that have modded their cars is testament to the fact THAT MOST OF US WILL MOD OUR FPV's..looking for performance enhancements......F6 or GT

Horses for courses........both cars can be modified to achieve some fantastic results...albeit much more costly for us BOSS owners.........but that certainly doesn't stop us from doing it........but alas we digress..........and once again we end up with the age old 6T v V8 argument........:togo:

Now back the topic at hand........I'm kinda thinking that its never been a better time for people looking for Aussie performance vehicles..........so many F6's and GT's on the 2nd hand car market and all so accessible in terms of $$........best bang for your buck in decades......re leasing options have never been so varied either........F6 F6E Gt GTP GTE.........and their RRP pricing is falling as well......double bonus.

Pretty much. It's all about relativity. If I could afford an RS4...I would have one...If I could afford an AMG Black...(yes have driven both) I would have one, BUT...these are still not as fun as say...a 550rwhp EFI XB that I built myself...I would have both of course as would most others.

Originally the thread started out questioning whether the Australian new performance car market was in for Balmain Folk Dance in the back alley...I think we agree that no...it will fight back. As others have mentioned in this thread we may see a few less GT variants but good...we don't need that many anyway. :

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by 5.4 GT

I'm not so sure about that... I'm 22 and have an FPV GT.

Some "Hero models" for myself and a lot of my friends are cars such as the Audi R8, RS4, C63AMG, BMW E46 and E92 M3s (coupes only thanks), Lexus IS-F and Nissan GTR (I'm personally not a big fan of the last 2 but a lot of my friends are). 2 out of these 7 cars are powered by a 6 cylinder and only 1 is powered by turbos. The rest are powered by V8s.

It is true though that the younger generation cares less about the "old-school" muscle cars (especially the Australian ones). We weren't around for the Moffat battles and hence really don't care that much about the old X series etc. Can still appreciate a good Mustang or Camaro though.

I drove an FG F6 and whilst it was epically quick for rolling acceleration in gear (off the line it was a bit of a dud even stalled up), it just didn't have the character of my GT. The turbo only made me grin whilst going flatout. The GT makes you smile even when doing 40km/h or rocking at the lights.

The same thing about lack of character has been said about the Nissan GTR, hence why it didn't make the list for me in "Hero model" cars. Yes it is epically fast but if you watch the Clarkson DVD Thriller (good show) you'll see he points out exactly the same problem.

I don't consider an Evo or STi to be a "hero model" either... it's not something I'd aspire to. In fact the only turbo I can think of that I'd think of as an aspirational model is the Porsche 997 911 GT2.

There you go...sentiment and exposure can sway product purchase... If Ford were honest about marketing and racing heritage? "Yeah...well...we won some production races a few years back...but...lately"

[mrbaxr6t]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

With respect to the premium Australian performance segment if V8's are dead why do FPV continue to sell roughly 2 V8 powered cars to every 1 I6T powered car? and its been the same since the I6T powered cars were released.
Why do HSV continue to outsell FPV by a fair margin year in year out with ONLY a V8 option..?
It doesnt sound like the V8 is dead to me, nor on its way out...
Nobody from the "V8 is dead" camp can explain it, they usually just dismiss it with wild claims to the contrary.... (despite sales figures supporting it) or try to flame me for pointing it out....

you really can't help not trumpeting that v8s outsell I6T's to be honest I am sick of hearing you say it and I heard it the first 234897238946123804 times you said it. And stop and think for a second here if they sell more v8s than I6T's whats there going to be less of in a decade?? and hence worth more?? smart guy.

AND I was one of the guys that dreamed of a skyline or a turbo powered car Iw anted a turbo six and I have one - I am the leader of the next generation stuck in the middle between v8s and turbos in a power struggle

[henry 351]

I am lucky enough to drive a C63.

People ask why a C63?

Here are the honest answers, in order, with reference to the local performance car market.

1. I can't afford a Porsche GT2.
2. I got sick of waiting for a FPV GTHO (I did love my BA GT for 5 years)
3. I couldn't afford an HSV W427

I think number 3 puts some real perspective on the matter...

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

With respect to the premium Australian performance segment if V8's are dead why do FPV continue to sell roughly 2 V8 powered cars to every 1 I6T powered car? and its been the same since the I6T powered cars were released.
Why do HSV continue to outsell FPV by a fair margin year in year out with ONLY a V8 option..?
It doesnt sound like the V8 is dead to me, nor on its way out...
Nobody from the "V8 is dead" camp can explain it, they usually just dismiss it with wild claims to the contrary.... (despite sales figures supporting it) or try to flame me for pointing it out....

Like Gecko said, all you older guys grew up with the whole V8 muscle thing and you still carry it with you today, my generation isn't old enough to buy new cars, give it 10 or 20 years time and it'll shift from V8s to Turbo 4s/6s etc, sure there will be people still buying the V8s, I like them, but the whole muscle car, V8 era is coming to a close. 90% of my mates are all into Japanese cars, Toyota Supra's, Nissan Skylines etc. Turbo cars are the kings of my generation, we've grown up with them as our favorite cars, just like you guys did with the V8s etc. The only person I know of who still idealise the idea of having a V8 car/V8s are still king grew up with them from his parents, my mate Cooper's parents are all into the old car/muscle car thing and its rubbed off on him.

[Rev28K]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

Well lookie here...actually agreeing with the FLAPPIST. You are spot on.

I gave up on car clubs years ago (20 to be exact) for pretty much the same reason: because no one actually wanted to drive their cars anywhere. Too collectible, too fragile, might get a stone chip, a bird might sh&t on it, petrol is too dear...boo hoo why didn't I buy a Hyundai, brakes don't last long, my missus won't come, don't want to wear out the gear knob, the wipers need changing...the sky is too blue...

You might have to try different car clubs. I’ve been in a few that were a bit “latte poseur” but even they have their performance elements. Ignore the concourse events and go for the track days, motorkhanas and drags. Or join a more performance oriented club as an associate member.

Flappist I did try a last minute no limits run (after Christmas) in my little Jap car to try and get in before the new years deadline and didn’t make it in time from Victoria. I know my car and am fairly familiar with its behaviour I’d trust it and me over 200km/h more than a rental. I didn’t make it before the deadline but I wanted to know what it felt like at Vmax in it’s 5th (overdrive) gear. I’ve only seen around an indicated 200 kmh at the end of straights and was interested to see if it would do the 220kmh claimed top speed. I also wanted to put to the test the claim in the Bosch handbook that it takes 320m to stop from 200kmh. In the end I didn’t make it and got a bucket load of stone chips from a tool in S/A.

All companies need their hero cars, one of the clubs I am in is for a nice handling car that is a joy to drive on a circuit. Some members are happy to bask in the reflected glory of the cars track prowess then advertise their cars as never been tracked. Why anyone would want to buy a zippy car and just use it for the daily 0-100 sludge is beyond me (even if it does give you greater safety margins of braking, accelerating & cornering). It’s all very well having the stripes and stickers but they must be based on some kind of substance. Not every Nissan GTR, Porsche 911 GT3 RS, Dodge Viper ACR or Chev Corvette ZR1/Z06 owner is going to take their car to the Nurburgring but I bet they can all quote their claimed lap time.

I seem to remember FPV used performance to justify some of their changes. The BF R Spec suspension was meant to be 3 secs quicker around Winton and (correct me if I’m wrong on this one, my memory is a little fuzzy) the FX6 was meant to be only 3 seconds slower around Winton than an XR6T. Does anyone know if these claims were ever independently proven?

[RPO83]

Originally Posted by henry 351

I am lucky enough to drive a C63.

People ask why a C63?

Here are the honest answers, in order, with reference to the local performance car market.

1. I can't afford a Porsche GT2.
2. I got sick of waiting for a FPV GTHO (I did love my BA GT for 5 years)
3. I couldn't afford an HSV W427

I think number 3 puts some real perspective on the matter...

For almost the same reasons I came to buying the C63, point 2 was part of the reason but my total lack of confidence in FPV and the people who run it are responsible for my decision to avoid the Ford performance product.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

you really can't help not trumpeting that v8s outsell I6T's to be honest I am sick of hearing you say it and I heard it the first 234897238946123804 times you said it. And stop and think for a second here if they sell more v8s than I6T's whats there going to be less of in a decade?? and hence worth more?? smart guy.

AND I was one of the guys that dreamed of a skyline or a turbo powered car Iw anted a turbo six and I have one - I am the leader of the next generation stuck in the middle between v8s and turbos in a power struggle

What are you waffling on about? why does it bother you so much that the v8's are maintaining their sales ratio? Resale value in 10 years is irrelevant.

I noticed you (and others) haven't tackled the "tough" question i posed:

Whats going to happen to the F6 if/when FPV announce the new engine in 2010 is a V8 with a turbo option???

[geckoGT]

AAHHHHH!!!!!!

I do not believe I am going to do this, I agree with Flappist. I think I will need a sedative now, where is my valium?

Yes a lot (most) of people that buy any performance car you can name do not drive it to any resemblance of its abilities, that is a simple fact. How many FPV's and HSV's have seen a track after the drive day, I would say <5%. I guess Flappist is right and you could say that is the difference between a car enthusiast and a driving enthusiast. I am just glad that having had my last three V8's on multiple track days each (one particular one involved in a spectacular case of enthusiasm exceeding abilities, to which Flappist was a witness) means that I am comfortably in the driving enthusiast category.

It is horses for courses, the car you buy is dependent on your own requirements and that is what makes it right for you. I have owned V8's previously, my next will be a 6T, but I will still own a V8. That is right for me and no one here has any right to say I am wrong. Having said that, of our cars will squarely fall into the realms of performance cars (FPV V8, hopefully FPV 6T and a 4T), even though one may be quicker than the other.

As for the example of saying the hero cars of the new generation are Merc AMG's BMW M's, Porsches etc. Not really relevant because the thread is talking about the average aussies buying habits of performance cars, not dream machinery that is financially out of reach of the average aussie. How does the specs and capabilities of a Merc AMG really influence someone into buying a GT over a F6? I don't think it does.

Look at me for example, I was raised in the days when the old man had a HQ LE Monaro, his mate had a VK Brock. In motorsport, toranas and then commodore were winning bathurst and they were very similar to what you could buy. I dreamt of owning a high performance V8.

So what was my first true street car (farm hacks don't count)? It was a HK Premier that ended up with a 350 chev in it, my second and owned concurrently with the Prem was a HT Monaro with a 308. This love of V8's progressed through the ages through to my last couple of cars. In fact I have only had two turbos in my life, a VN Berlina and our present Mini Cooper S, most of the rest have been V8's. So my true influence in my buying habits were performance cars were ones that I could eventually afford. My absolute performance car pipe dreams in my older teen and early twenties were cars such as the Ferrari F40, Porche 959, Cizetta V16T, Jaguar XJ220, Lamborghini Countach and diablo etc. Did these cars influence my buying habits, not one bit because I could never afford that sort of machinery. Only cars that were remotely within my financial ability did. At the end of the day I am a pretty average aussie, that is why I listed the cars I did in my other post, because they are the cars within the financial reach of most of todays aussie youngsters. They see a WRX STI or evolution lancer as a stretch but eventually affordable, the AMG is not.

Yes there will always be the exceptions, the rich kid whose dad has a porsche or ferrari, the kid whose dad has a W427 etc. These kids will gain a lot of influence from their exposure to these machines and will probably buy something similar. Those that do not have a particular influence in their life will buy the hero cars of the average aussie youngster, which is increasingly becoming the smaller capacity turbo.

Another influence is the movies that we grew up watching. I grew up in the days of Mad Max, Bullit, Dukes of Hazard, Cannonball Run, Smokey and the Bandit etc, V8's ruled the box office. The kids now are growing up watching Fast and Furious, playing Need for Speed etc, the turbo imports rule here. That will be a great buying influence when the select their performance car.

Those that live in queensland, think of the broadwater car park on a saturday night. This was a much bigger congregation of the street car scene than Harry's diner, aspley or acacia ridge. What car ruled supreme at the broady, the turbo import. I believe this is indicative of the shift in paradigms that we are seeing, and will continue to see. Having said that, the V8 will never die, it will just not be the top dog for ever.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Whats going to happen to the F6 if/when FPV announce the new engine in 2010 is a V8 with a turbo option???

Record numbers of F6/XRT owners lining up to trade up to the 8T. Glut of F6/XRT's on the country's used car lots with values and trade in prices plummeting due to lack of demand.....FPV working 24 hour rolling shifts to meet demand for the new product?....F6's dropped from the range.

Seriously it will depend on the price tag...I still think there'll still be a market for a 6T for those whose budget can't stretch to the 8T, or just can't justify the extra spend

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by Daymoe

Like Gecko said, all you older guys grew up with the whole V8 muscle thing and you still carry it with you today, my generation isn't old enough to buy new cars, give it 10 or 20 years time and it'll shift from V8s to Turbo 4s/6s etc, sure there will be people still buying the V8s, I like them, but the whole muscle car, V8 era is coming to a close. 90% of my mates are all into Japanese cars, Toyota Supra's, Nissan Skylines etc. Turbo cars are the kings of my generation, we've grown up with them as our favorite cars, just like you guys did with the V8s etc. The only person I know of who still idealise the idea of having a V8 car/V8s are still king grew up with them from his parents, my mate Cooper's parents are all into the old car/muscle car thing and its rubbed off on him.

I'm from the 'younger generation' (as you so elegantly put, 'all you older guys')...

I think that saying Turbo cars are the kings of our generation is offensive and blatant rubbish....

So there was a 12 month period where Fast and Furious was a popular movie (ironic that the hero car in the show was a blown V8 charger - but anyway) and sales of coloured Fluro lights and chrome/plastic checkerplate went crazy.... big deal....

Lets remember why the young blokes have any sort of appreciation for the Turbo Jap cars.... Australia is a DUMPING ground for these grey imports.... they're too old to keep going round in Japan... they're cheap and they've got reasonable go.... thats it...

Upbringing may have part to do with what you like when you get old enough to have an owners passion for cars.... though I am certainly going to prove this theory wrong...
My parents had a 1976 4cyl Corolla, and a 1996 Magna(4cyl) after that, the toughest car they've EVER owned was a 2850 LJ torana.... and that was before I was born (1981)...

The Muscle car 'era' will only come to a close if and when the government has another PhaseIV killing moment and begins the end of the power war....
Aside from this, no fuel crisis or recession is gonna stop the Octane from pumping thru my veins...

And i'm sure that many of you will agree....
Otherwise we'd all be driving a Prius with a solar panel on the roof....

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

What are you waffling on about? why does it bother you so much that the v8's are maintaining their sales ratio? Resale value in 10 years is irrelevant.

I noticed you (and others) haven't tackled the "tough" question i posed:

Whats going to happen to the F6 if/when FPV announce the new engine in 2010 is a V8 with a turbo option???

I do not see that it will be a v8 with a turbo option, FPV will maintain the line up of 6T and N/A V8. A boosted V8 may be offered, but it will be so expensive that it will not cause much of a ripple in the buying habits of the average performance car buyer.

Think of the price of a GT-P, now add $20k for the turbo's/SC, plus better suspension, bigger tyres, more gadgets etc. It will end up well on the plus side of $140k. Now think of the effect the W427 has had on buying habits. It has not had much, if any at all.

[mrbaxr6t]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

What are you waffling on about? why does it bother you so much that the v8's are maintaining their sales ratio? Resale value in 10 years is irrelevant.

I noticed you (and others) haven't tackled the "tough" question i posed:

Whats going to happen to the F6 if/when FPV announce the new engine in 2010 is a V8 with a turbo option???

you really think with things the way they are now with all automakers in trouble Ford will invest in a boosted v8? :

and lets say for arguments sake they do make a twinturbo v8, the V8 purists won't buy them! why? because the V8 noises are masked by the turbo noises. The argument many have posed to buy a V8 over a I6T is the sound - turboing a V8 will stuff the sound up. I6T owners as stated will run out and trade up to a turbo V8 but I can't see current N/A V8 owners buying them due to the sound they make.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by loftie

I'm from the 'younger generation' (as you so elegantly put, 'all you older guys')...

I think that saying Turbo cars are the kings of our generation is offensive and blatant rubbish....

So there was a 12 month period where Fast and Furious was a popular movie (ironic that the hero car in the show was a blown V8 charger - but anyway) and sales of coloured Fluro lights and chrome/plastic checkerplate went crazy.... big deal....

Lets remember why the young blokes have any sort of appreciation for the Turbo Jap cars.... Australia is a DUMPING ground for these grey imports.... they're too old to keep going round in Japan... they're cheap and they've got reasonable go.... thats it...

Upbringing may have part to do with what you like when you get old enough to have an owners passion for cars.... though I am certainly going to prove this theory wrong...
My parents had a 1976 4cyl Corolla, and a 1996 Magna(4cyl) after that, the toughest car they've EVER owned was a 2850 LJ torana.... and that was before I was born (1981)...

The Muscle car 'era' will only come to a close if and when the government has another PhaseIV killing moment and begins the end of the power war....
Aside from this, no fuel crisis or recession is gonna stop the Octane from pumping thru my veins...

And i'm sure that many of you will agree....
Otherwise we'd all be driving a Prius with a solar panel on the roof....

You have some good points and sorry us old farts offended you.

But to be honest, I did say there are some exceptions, we are talking average, not everyone.

How do you explain the majority of young males between the ages of 20-30 drive small capacity turbo's? Just have a good look around the streets, there are not as many V8 falcons or commodores as there are WRX, lancer, skyline, silvia etc. At least not in QLD there are not.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Whats going to happen to the F6 if/when FPV announce the new engine in 2010 is a V8 with a turbo option???

Well for me that is simple. I don't give a rats bum what the engine is as long as it is the highest performer. 4/6/8/10 NA/turbo/supercharged is all the same as long as it is rear wheel drive, goes fast, is comfortable and has good traveling range then that is all that is important to me.

[IDT]

Two things came to mind when I read this thread:
1) The global crisis wont last forever and
2) Why have FPV released the F6E?

[5.4 GT]

Originally Posted by loftie

I'm from the 'younger generation' (as you so elegantly put, 'all you older guys')...

I think that saying Turbo cars are the kings of our generation is offensive and blatant rubbish....

Haha yeh it's pretty stereotypical. It's just like saying all the old codgers (40+) drive around in Camrys with bowling hats on the rear parcel shelf.

Originally Posted by geckoGT

How do you explain the majority of young males between the ages of 20-30 drive small capacity turbo's? Just have a good look around the streets, there are not as many V8 falcons or commodores as there are WRX, lancer, skyline, silvia etc. At least not in QLD there are not.

I see hardly any around anymore in the inner city, Northshore and Eastern suburbs parts of Sydney. I think the P-plater Turbo ban had a lot to do with this. Go out to the western suburbs however and its a different story (seems to be the dumping ground for these grey imports).

[cs123]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well for me that is simple. I don't give a rats bum what the engine is as long as it is the highest performer. 4/6/8/10 NA/turbo/supercharged is all the same as long as it is rear wheel drive, goes fast, is comfortable and has good traveling range then that is all that is important to me.

Ditto. An I think that is the attitude of most XR6T/F6 owners. They picked what they consider to be the best tool for the job rather than a philosophical choice. Just about everyone would happily move into a v8 turbo if it offered better bang for buck.

Be interesting to see the reaction of the "v8 must be NA" groupies if a turbo v8 hits the street.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by 5.4 GT

Haha yeh it's pretty stereotypical. It's just like saying all the old codgers (40+) drive around in Camrys with bowling hats on the rear parcel shelf.



I see hardly any around anymore in the inner city, Northshore and Eastern suburbs parts of Sydney. I think the P-plater Turbo ban had a lot to do with this. Go out to the western suburbs however and its a different story (seems to be the dumping ground for these grey imports).

That is exactly why I said 20-30 age group, past the P plate ban on performance cars. How can we look at P platers in this discussion when they are not allowed to drive performance cars.

Like I said, my opinion is based on what I see in the Brisbane area, other areas may be different, but I doubt anyone here can deny there is a shift happening.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well for me that is simple. I don't give a rats bum what the engine is as long as it is the highest performer. 4/6/8/10 NA/turbo/supercharged is all the same as long as it is rear wheel drive, goes fast, is comfortable and has good traveling range then that is all that is important to me.

Yes.. but you buy based on outright performance, and as we've seen outright performance means little if some other boxes arent ticked too.
What do you think FPV will do? especially in light of "historic" sales data and consumer "push back"...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

How do you explain the majority of young males between the ages of 20-30 drive small capacity turbo's? Just have a good look around the streets, there are not as many V8 falcons or commodores as there are WRX, lancer, skyline, silvia etc. At least not in QLD there are not.

Yes but there were not a huge number of V8 falcons or commodores sold in the era that the young ones can afford now and those that are about were not exactly "performance" vehicles.
Pre XF are gutless petrol eating monsters or now illegally modified (no pollution crap fitted) powerful petrol eating monsters. Pre XC are too just expensive now.
XF-EA, no V8s. EB-EL other than the GTs and Sprints the 6 was quicker than the V8. AU-FG are just a bit too expensive and most of the AU V8s were not real quick (Fortes, Fairmonts etc.).

For the same money as a AU3 XR8 you can buy any number of import bubble mobiles that go just as quick or even quicker for half the fuel and also have the "badge" that they want.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by cs123

Be interesting to see the reaction of the "v8 must be NA" groupies if a turbo v8 hits the street.

I think a turbo 8 would tick far more boxes for far more people than the I6T currently does..... which is why i believe the end might be nigh given the rumours of the 5.0lTT V8's pending arrival....

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yes.. but you buy based on outright performance, and as we've seen outright performance means little if some other boxes arent ticked too.
What do you think FPV will do? especially in light of "historic" sales data and consumer "push back"...

I hate to say it but I do not see a boosted FPV in the near future, guarantee not in 2010. The average FPV owner does not want a track weapon that can do 0-100 in sub 5 secs and 400 in 12's but is devoid of all the luxuries and has harsh performance suspension. Sure they would have that performance but would enough buy it at the compromise of creature comforts.

That compromise is the only way they could make such a car under the $100k mark. Lets face it, at the moment the ceiling price for an aussie performance car that sells enough volume to make it viable is under $100k.