Have You Been Fined For Having A Towbar ? - Page 2

JC · 05-10-2007, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAadam

Just in regards to a recent thread about the legalities of Towbars. A few people have stated that it is illegal to have the tongue attached to your towbar if its not in use. So lets hear it here. "HOW MANY OF YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN FINED FOR HAVING A TOWBAR" ???. (TONGUE INCLUDED).

It's got nothing to do with what people on here say; it's all about what the law is. Technically, it IS ILLEGAL to have the towbar neck attached when not in use, but in reality, about the only time you will get fined for it is when it obscures the number plate.

Most police officers would just warn you unless it's your second warning, or unless the rego number is obscured, or if you were involved in an accident and they could see that the towbar tongue specifically caused damage to a person.

jason_85 · 05-10-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrdcor

Strange about the neck injuries...
It would seem to me that even without the tongue and/or ball attached, the actual towing structure (frame that tongue attaches to) is still right behind the bumper. Therefore it would seem logical that any high speed impact is going to depress (read: annihilate) the rear bumper and transfer all force to the towing structre anyway. So removing the tongue/ball would really have didly squat effect on harm minimisation to passengers.

My two cents. Prove me wrong kids, prove me wrong.

p.s. Holden's new ve doesn't hold a candle to the heavy duty jobbie on the back of the ol xf....... how dare I have to clean that filthy red paint of my bar.....

agree ..... sorta haha

for that thousandth of a second while the car has only hit the tongue and nothing else the energy would be concentrated on the towbar and not directly the car. Then as the tongue protrudes through the front bar and radiator of the car that has hit it the force would then begin to evenly apply to the rest of the car.

In that split second you would have the tongue/towbar taking the full force of the impact. This increase of force in that tiny time difference i would say would be negligble especially when you weigh up the loss of of engery due to movement in the pin that holds the tongue...

So overall.... i would have to agree....diddly squat difference

thats my 2 cents

Agent86 · 05-10-2007, 12:08 PM

when my old XF was rear ended, the newly fitted tow bat took the force of impact fro m the rear pannels and transfered it to the chassis. The only problem then is that the weak points in a car then start to show up..

it kinked at the sill belo the B pillar and the roof dimpled on the b and c pillars.

they dont remove stresses, they just transfer them to different locations.

Pinch · 05-10-2007, 12:47 PM

Re the energy transfer, it probably all comes down to all the circumstances, what type of car hits you, the design of your tow bar etc, the design and energy absorbtion qualities of your bumper etc. I am no engineer so I can't vouch for what I was told. In any event the neck injury would have happened, the only issue was if it could have been reduced by not having the tongue on. The particular design of the tow bar in question was that without the tongue, there was actually a fair bit of soft plastic and metal before any real vehicle structure/substantive tow structure was reached. This was reported on by an investigator for an insurance defence lawyer saying that the presence of the towbar tongue was a contributing factor to the severity of the injury. Ultimately the case was settled without any need to have our own expert conter that suggestion, or have a judge rule on the merits of the argument.

Ultimately though I am now willing do do all I can now to minimise injury, regardless of how miniscule that effect may be. It also takes away an scumbag insurance defence (if the worst happens) that you contributed to the severity of any injury by leaving a towbar tongue in place whilst not necessary.

SBR_1 · 05-10-2007, 01:03 PM

WTF!!!!
I know my dad got asked about how long his had been on his old EF and if it was dont by ford he didnt know,so he just got warned.But wats the harm in them anyways,unless u hit some with one them your screwed.How is it any different to having you car lowered.If its dont to a legal height then wats the problem,i just dont see why cops wat to pull people up on that for.Bit of a joke i think.

MeLLy · 05-10-2007, 02:19 PM

nope no fines ever, was rear-ended in a petrol station the old couple wanted to be where i was and couldnt wait, but instead they had a nice imprint in their front bumper,So i leave it on for the sole purpose that if someone wants to rear end me then they can but its going to hurt, plus you will never know when your going to need it

Agent86 · 05-10-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinch

Re the energy transfer, it probably all comes down to all the circumstances, what type of car hits you, the design of your tow bar etc, the design and energy absorbtion qualities of your bumper etc. I am no engineer so I can't vouch for what I was told. In any event the neck injury would have happened, the only issue was if it could have been reduced by not having the tongue on. The particular design of the tow bar in question was that without the tongue, there was actually a fair bit of soft plastic and metal before any real vehicle structure/substantive tow structure was reached. This was reported on by an investigator for an insurance defence lawyer saying that the presence of the towbar tongue was a contributing factor to the severity of the injury. Ultimately the case was settled without any need to have our own expert conter that suggestion, or have a judge rule on the merits of the argument.

Ultimately though I am now willing do do all I can now to minimise injury, regardless of how miniscule that effect may be. It also takes away an scumbag insurance defence (if the worst happens) that you contributed to the severity of any injury by leaving a towbar tongue in place whilst not necessary.

you will probably find the neck injury was caused by the sudden bovement, and having her head in a turned position would have just added to it.
I have spinal alignment issues needing constant chiropractic care and have experienced impacts with a turned head and straight head.
turned its harder for the muscles to support and the movment that follows can be damaging. looking straight ahead, the muschels should be able to support better..

but that doesnt matter. Im sorry to hear of your partners injury.
Hopefully it can be worked with and made managable.

89 S-PACK · 05-10-2007, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peuty

Yeah I was done for the same thing in my first car, 1983 Telstar. Factory towbar position yet I still copped a fine. If it was illegal, then how did the car pass roadworthy?? Had my licence for only 3 days as well....

i had a 1986 telstar.... it had the factory tow bar on it. and it passed rwc.only comment made was that i needed to lower the number plate to make it visable. ( didnt have plates at that stage) so i put some slimline plates on it. and hung them low. looked funny tho.

ive never been booked for it.but i am polite to the police anyway. why give them reasons to look closely at the car?

Cooper69S · 06-10-2007, 01:08 PM

theres another side to the story that doesn't seem to have been mentioned...
my towbar is secured with a pin - fairly easily removed so i always leave it off unless i'm (rarely) towing something. main reason being when reverse parking into a tight spot between 2 other cars the lack of a towbar can be the difference between fitting in a spot and having to look for a bigger one. also i would imagine that if someone underestimated the space needed and hit the car behind (no i haven't done this), a light bump with the bumper would be unlikely to cause any damage to either car, but a towbar hit would probably be a different story.

Pinch · 06-10-2007, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceofSpades

you will probably find the neck injury was caused by the sudden bovement, and having her head in a turned position would have just added to it.
I have spinal alignment issues needing constant chiropractic care and have experienced impacts with a turned head and straight head.
turned its harder for the muscles to support and the movment that follows can be damaging. looking straight ahead, the muschels should be able to support better..

but that doesnt matter. Im sorry to hear of your partners injury.
Hopefully it can be worked with and made managable.

Sure right about it being because the head was turned. My head was straight, and no probs! Recommendation - if you know you are going to be hit from behind - keep looking straight. Always have the headrests adjusted properly too!

It really was a combination of many things - all at the wrong time. Simply something to think about. It may never be able to be proven that the towbar tongue made it worse, certainly would not have helped. Makes insurance issues harder too - thats a pain enough in the neck ('scuse pun) as it is.

All in all, whilst it was pretty unlucky, and looks likely to be a life long minor hassle (no more waterskiing, snow skiing, taxis or buses - they can't drive smoothly, etc for wife), there are plenty more people out there that would love to have 'only' that issue.

I am also pretty keen on a new car for the missus that has those active headrest things. Even considered a Volvo for the WIPS whiplash protection system - but got over that idea pretty quick though.

bob^ · 07-10-2007, 02:27 AM

I got over bashing my shin into the gooseneck within the first week of owning my BA so it stays in the shed and only gets put on for the odd occasion I need to tow.
As it is, the mount for the gooseneck protrudes slightly and is enough to let you know you have backed into the wall at Crown Casino without doing damage to the rear bar.

carnutt · 07-10-2007, 07:59 AM

A few have mentioned on here about being "rear-ended" , a safety tip

IF you are in the "Right Lane" waiting to turn Right , which way are your front wheels pointing ?

I reckon they should be "Straight"...

If you've got them turned right and get "rear-ended" , you'll end up heading into "oncoming traffic".

While you're waiting , have your wheels Straight , better ending up 100 metres down the road than in the front of the other cars ,

Surprising how many people don't know and sit with their wheels turned ....

carnutt

T-BOOST · 07-10-2007, 08:28 AM

HaHa years and years ago i use to use my towbar on the old XD for reverse parking ( against a wall ) in shopping car parks. wait for the donk and chuck her in park.

Redrum · 07-10-2007, 07:29 PM

I am pretty sure it is technically unroadworthy for a vehicle in Victoria to have an attached tow bar if it is not towing something as it would count as a sharp protruding object; but as for enforcement of it I have yet to hear of someone getting fined or defected.

89 S-PACK · 07-10-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redrum

I am pretty sure it is technically unroadworthy for a vehicle in Victoria to have an attached tow bar if it is not towing something as it would count as a sharp protruding object; but as for enforcement of it I have yet to hear of someone getting fined or defected.

no one has ever enforced it when ive gotten rwc's.... and i live in vic

mum's toyota - towbar
sisters sigma - towbar. doesn't have the car anymore
sisters fairmont - towbar
my ea s-pack - towbar
my old ea gl - towbar. sold it... i updated to the s-pack
dads ea - towbar
my old telstar - towbar. sold it, i didn't need the daily for work anymore
sisters chrysler centura - towbar

all these passed with the tounge and ball fitted! and this is in the last 5 years so it kinda depends on who is doing the rwc. and what mood the copper is in if they are looking at the car.

alecrain · 08-10-2007, 04:00 PM

Just to illustrate what happens when you get rear ended and you have tow bar fitted:

Just compare the damage, I reckon I'd be much better if I had the tongue and ball fitted at that time.

Cooper69S · 08-10-2007, 05:40 PM

the higher likelihood of damage without a towbar may also be a reason to leave the towbar off.
my rear bumper is in need of a respray so i'd be quite happy for someone else's insurance company to pay for it

i had someone reverse into me once in my old EF, and their towbar put a 1 sq cm hole in my front bumper - was right next to the number plate - barely visible. they were uninsured but since it was entirely their fault my insurance co just went after them for the money and didn't cost me a cent but got me a whole new bumper. It was in need of a respray anyway and without a towbar there would probably have been no damage.
so there's for and against arguments in there, depending on whether your car needs painting...

Rodp · 08-10-2007, 05:57 PM

Never had a problem with my towbar, apart from a few battlescars on my shins... :(

Buddy 1 · 16-10-2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnutt

A few have mentioned on here about being "rear-ended" , a safety tip

IF you are in the "Right Lane" waiting to turn Right , which way are your front wheels pointing ?

I reckon they should be "Straight"...

If you've got them turned right and get "rear-ended" , you'll end up heading into "oncoming traffic".

While you're waiting , have your wheels Straight , better ending up 100 metres down the road than in the front of the other cars ,

Surprising how many people don't know and sit with their wheels turned ....

carnutt

Many years ago my Boss (at the time) who was the owner of a Service Station as well as Fuel Depots was driving his Fuel Tanker down the road & came across an accident or was involved in it, anyway a vehicle was waiting to turn as you describe & when hit from behind went across into oncoming traffic & was killed.

So yes wheels straight.

Swinny03 · 17-10-2007, 02:39 PM

i havent been fined but my mate said he's gotten in trouble for having a towbar. he's a p plater

xtremerus · 17-10-2007, 07:19 PM

Got a tow-ball defect about 8 yrs ago in a VR ute. The Lic plate is off to the side on the ute, not behind the towbar, but that made no difference to this smart cop. He said the lic plate must be visible from any angle. Go figure.

Fairmont4 · 11-01-2008, 11:33 PM

the only time iv egot pulled over is becuase on the xc's with the after market towbars the bal obstructs the numbers partially and what i said to the cop ill say here , "yeah becuase if i go past a speed camera it cant get my rego right " and he didnt say a word , although he was good he didnt pin me.

scoupedy · 12-01-2008, 06:52 PM

I leave mine on for idiots that can't stop in time....How many fishing rod holders do you see on bull bars? they are only legal if being used i.e with rods in them otherwise they have to be at the back of the bull bar. I'm sure if muscle cars had them then we would all get pinged

Bobman · 12-01-2008, 07:01 PM

Never had any problems with having mine on.

Infact many police cars down here in Melbourne have them on, so it can't be too illegal?

Nostalgia · 12-01-2008, 07:26 PM

I started this thread back in October due to another thread about Harold Scruby wanting to ban them as they were apparently dangerous to pedestrians. Im happy for it to continue but if the mods feel the need to close it, im happy with that too. Cheers, Adam.

theunfairadvant · 13-01-2008, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by normxb

Hey That would have been cool , it was a "Peter Warren Special Vehicles 1980 XD S-pac 4 sp Wagon " , tinted glass , P/steer , Aircon , "Tow bar , the works .

Just had a look , it was on the corner of Beacon hill rd & Warringah Rd Beacon hill , I used to travel the road every Thursday about the same time and if I reported him , he'd be in big trouble !

I'd stopped to turn left (heavy traffic) and was waiting for a "gap" , then Bang ,,, he thought I'd gone , so he "gave it a foot full" Mmm I was still there , only damage to my car was a 5mm chip in the chrome/plastic bumper .

Warringah rd was a 60k zone , but everyone sat on 80k , I thought If I reported him , he'd bust me every week , so I said "no damage to my car !

His reply " Damn big dog I hit , wasn't it" . I saw him quite a number of times after that , "Big smile & Wave from the Police car " Worth it in the long run ,

Norm

Norm that was a good decision that turns out well in the long run,
good on ya buddy.

BZINGA · 13-01-2008, 04:44 AM

Driving mums Vk Commodore about 10 years ago i was pulled over for the tow ball obscuring the licence plate, was fined $70 & lost 1 point, i asked the cop nicely for how about a warning and i'll take it off as soon as i get home, he just smiled and started to fill in the forms for the fine

: and it went through 2 RW's like that, that we know of.