Reflections - Autobarn Chadstone Revving up for Boys Toys, 15 02 2007

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by BJ

What the hell are you on about. Do you know that more modified cars are involved in accidents than any other, and I'm not talking about V8 modified cars either. The sooner everyone under stood that if you drive a car that has been lowered had the exhaust or heaven forbid the wheels and tyres changed it is classed as a modified car.

Where do you get your info from?

Originally Posted by BJ

We cannot keep the same old argument about them not doing the right thing. As far as the law is concerned they are in the right and we are in the wrong.

BJ the big picture is that there is a lot of wrong that is ignored.

Originally Posted by BJ

I know that every time from now on when I take the XR out I may get pinged for something, well if I do that just my bad luck. You see unlike some people I will take responsibility for what I have, and that is the trouble with most people they wont take responsibility for any thing in this day and age.

Luck and responsiblity have nothing to do with it. You can still get 'pinged' for nothing.

[EDXR6T]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Luck and responsiblity have nothing to do with it. You can still get 'pinged' for nothing.

Il second that.

[holmsy]

in the end cops can put you off the road without a problem. you can be unroadworthy if your windscreen wiper water is to low/empty.

the only argument i think that makes the cops in the right. is the fact the cars are unroadworthy. it doesnt matter if you are parked in safeway carpark. or if you are driving or if you are at a car show.
it is unroadworthy and unless it is a car you put on a trailer to take home and to shows then it is at some stage going to be on the road and still unroadworthy.

so the cops are not doing anything wrong even if the car is in a private carpark. as long as you have the intention of driving out onto the street they should be able to get you.

[Full Noise]

Open questions to XA Coupe and anyone else that may be able to answer?

Can you please explain to us “uneducated” people what the definition of “Highway” is and why a private carpark is deemed a Highway?

If the police attended to defect un roadworthy vehicles at a show and shine, how can they do this when the Chadstone Car park is private property, as in the actual parking bays? Also, wouldn’t the cars have to be driven on a public road for the police to be able to defect them?

Did Mr Gandell (the owner of the Chadstone complex) give police permission to defect vehicles on his property? If so, wouldn’t this open up some complex legal issues for the people that received defect notices and for Autobarn as tenants of the complex?

Did the TMU book every other car that wasn’t parked properly in a parking bay at the Chadstone complex that day?

Did the TMU defect every other vehicle that may have had a cracked tail light, bald tyre or pitted windscreen at the Chadstone complex that day?

[ratter]

Years and years ago I got told the from front fence to front fence and everything in between was classed as highway, that included footpaths and nature strips, not sure if it still applies. Maybe a public carpark is classed as highway as cars are free to enter??

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by ratter

Maybe a public carpark is classed as highway as cars are free to enter??

Interesting as the Chadstone car park is actually locked up at night and not reopened until around 9:00 am. I wonder how many other Highways are chained up and locked at night?

[Dezza]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

There job is to make our roads safer. There are 100's cars out there that are not touched, yet the modified car cops it.

*Unlawful driving (ie failing to indicate, failing to keep left, failing to give way,etc)
*Fatigue
*Driving under the influence
*road rage

need I continue?

Our roads are not unsafe due to the modified car scene!

I totally agree. And BJ, it's not modified cars that cause the road toll to climb, it's the drivers of a number of those cars who get the mentality that they are the next Michael Schumacher. I've never seen lowered springs or a loud exhaust being the cause of an accident, but lack of attention and driving like a hoon certainly has killed plenty of people

[ratter]

just to defend BJ a bit, the guys that drive like they think they are racing (hoons) normally don't drive standard cars. It may only be a wheel change, an exhaust change or even lowering, but as far as the cops and general public are concerned , they are modified

[mik]

Originally Posted by ratter

Years and years ago I got told the from front fence to front fence and everything in between was classed as highway, that included footpaths and nature strips, not sure if it still applies. Maybe a public carpark is classed as highway as cars are free to enter??

i can answer that i think, not sure about shopping centre but normal roadway is classed from fence to fence , nature strip and footpath are classed as roadway ( because the council owns it),according to council signage course that i attended some years ago, i would`nt think shopping centre car park would be owned by council................. but i could be wrong.

[XA-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Open questions to XA Coupe and anyone else that may be able to answer?

Can you please explain to us “uneducated” people what the definition of “Highway” is and why a private carpark is deemed a Highway?

If the police attended to defect un roadworthy vehicles at a show and shine, how can they do this when the Chadstone Car park is private property, as in the actual parking bays? Also, wouldn’t the cars have to be driven on a public road for the police to be able to defect them?

Did Mr Gandell (the owner of the Chadstone complex) give police permission to defect vehicles on his property? If so, wouldn’t this open up some complex legal issues for the people that received defect notices and for Autobarn as tenants of the complex?

Did the TMU book every other car that wasn’t parked properly in a parking bay at the Chadstone complex that day?

Did the TMU defect every other vehicle that may have had a cracked tail light, bald tyre or pitted windscreen at the Chadstone complex that day?

Easy Danny.. and I would have thought someone who was a professional driver as you are would know this.

This is a paraphrase as it's been a while: A highway is a thoroughfare that people drive on... obviously This isn't necessarily limited to public roads and can be on 'private' land. It doesn't have to be paved and can be no more than a track .. or car park. Luckily for us, all the people who thought they were smart contested everything and made the legislative bodies tighten up the laws so it basically covers the whole goddamned world.
The car park was a public place to as the public were allowed ( encouraged ) to use it. You can't drink drive there, speed there or do anything illegal there. To boot, they only have to believe the cars were used on a highway in the preceding 7 days ( I think, it's been a while as I said ) to put a canary on it.

[Allen]

So, would this mean that any officer with a grudge against modified cars could stroll through the show and shine at summernats or even the Melbourne international motor show for example, handing out defect stickers?

It has been said before that police, if they wanted to, could defect a car that just rolled of the production line... So where is the line drawn?

What about the V8 supercars, Melbourne Grand Prix and Queensland Indy Champ cars? Many race tracks are based on public roads aka "highways"... Even though they would be closed off to the general public, what is stopping a police officer walking through the pits giving defect and speeding fines to race cars?

There are far more important social problems to be taken care off than a few modified cars, parked at in a shopping centre as a promotion for a store...

If these police had been driving down the M1 the other day, would 2 people have died in a totally preventable collision? Lord knows a speed camera wouldn't have helped...

I'm going off on a bit of a tangent now, but my problem is that the police should be focusing their resources on making the community a better place, not targeting a minority, for putting on an organised show and shine... :

[XA-Coupe]

They weren't targeting a minority for a show and shine .. they were targeting a high profile highly publicised group that in the eyes of everyone that doesn't know better, were responsible for the noble park thing.
The fact it's not true is irrelevant, it's just the perception.
I'm not saying it wasn't poor form but they had the power to do it and they did it.. time to get over it.

[Nostalgia]

QUOTE=BJ]What the hell are you on about. Do you know that more modified cars are involved in accidents than any other, and I'm not talking about V8 modified cars either. :

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Post up the link to the statistics that prove this. You wont find them. More standard cars are involved in accidents due to the owners pushing them beyond their limits. The average guy/girl lowers their car, fits 18s or 19s etc to improve (increase the limits of the standard car), and the better looks are a bonus. He/She who spends $ on modifying their car may give it a flogging every now and again but generally tend to have more respect for their ride than Mr. Standard car owner who 9 times out of 10 will thrash the standard car trying to make it feel like something that its not, that is what causes accidents.

[TURBOBF]

Originally Posted by mik

i can answer that i think, not sure about shopping centre but normal roadway is classed from fence to fence , nature strip and footpath are classed as roadway ( because the council owns it),according to council signage course that i attended some years ago, i would`nt think shopping centre car park would be owned by council................. but i could be wrong.

I am pretty sure the shopping centre car park is private property owned by the shopping center and not under police juristication(spelling) when all you are doing is parking your car.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

Easy Danny.. and I would have thought someone who was a professional driver as you are would know this.

This is a paraphrase as it's been a while: A highway is a thoroughfare that people drive on... obviously This isn't necessarily limited to public roads and can be on 'private' land. It doesn't have to be paved and can be no more than a track .. or car park. Luckily for us, all the people who thought they were smart contested everything and made the legislative bodies tighten up the laws so it basically covers the whole goddamned world.
The car park was a public place to as the public were allowed ( encouraged ) to use it. You can't drink drive there, speed there or do anything illegal there. To boot, they only have to believe the cars were used on a highway in the preceding 7 days ( I think, it's been a while as I said ) to put a canary on it.

Thanks Jeff … although I would have thought someone with such a vast knowledge of law enforcement, as you have, would understand that these questions were put forward by a professional driver, not a lawyer or someone who would often find themselves in situations which would require an intimate knowledge of the legislation.

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

They weren't targeting a minority for a show and shine .. they were targeting a high profile highly publicised group that in the eyes of everyone that doesn't know better, were responsible for the noble park thing.
The fact it's not true is irrelevant, it's just the perception.
I'm not saying it wasn't poor form but they had the power to do it and they did it.. time to get over it.

Let’s see, a highly publicised group who doesn’t know any better …
Serbs and Croats. They were responsible for the violence at the tennis.
People refusing not to do the Mexican Wave. They need to put a stop to this criminal element. Outlaw motorcycle gangs. I’d like to see the TMU slap a few defects on some Harleys parked outside the Coffin Cheaters’ clubhouse “on a Highway”. Public transport fare evaders, these people need to be put up against a wall and shot. G 20 protesters. They better go and bash a few uni students to show the public who’s boss. Werribee police. They threatened strike action, can’t have that.

With all of these high profile trouble makers out there, I’m surprised that the TMU had the time to go to Chadstone at all.

You’d better hurry up and sell that XA, Jeff. That thing would have to be a mobile defect, wouldn’t it? I mean, you wouldn‘t be able to park it anywhere?

[Dezza]

Originally Posted by ratter

just to defend BJ a bit, the guys that drive like they think they are racing (hoons) normally don't drive standard cars. It may only be a wheel change, an exhaust change or even lowering, but as far as the cops and general public are concerned , they are modified

But just because hoons drive modified cars, why should they crack down on ALL modified cars? Not all of the drivers of these cars are hoons, so why should they have to pay the price?

[ratter]

Originally Posted by ea_silver_ghia

But just because hoons drive modified cars, why should they crack down on ALL modified cars? Not all of the drivers of these cars are hoons, so why should they have to pay the price?

They shouldn't, but that's the way it happens.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by ea_silver_ghia

But just because hoons drive modified cars, why should they crack down on ALL modified cars? Not all of the drivers of these cars are hoons, so why should they have to pay the price?

Dezza, just need to correct you here.
Hoons drive stock standard cars also, well I see more stock cars hooning then modified ones! It's just that modified cars are an easy target.

[Dezza]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Dezza, just need to correct you here.
Hoons drive stock standard cars also, well I see more stock cars hooning then modified ones! It's just that modified cars are an easy target.

True, Wayne. It doesn't matter what type of car you have. Most cars are capable of hooning

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Dezza, just need to correct you here.
Hoons drive stock standard cars also, well I see more stock cars hooning then modified ones! It's just that modified cars are an easy target.

My point exactly.

[SDKC]

I don't know why everyone is going on about highways. This happened on a road-related area.

below is a copy and paste direct from the definitions in the Road Safety Act.

12. What is a road
(1) A road is—
(a) an area that is open to or used by the public and is developed for, or
has as one of its main uses, the driving or riding of motor vehicles; or
(b) a place that is a road by virtue of a declaration under section 3(2)(a) of
the Road Safety Act 1986—
but does not include a place that is not a road by virtue of a declaration under section 3(2)(a) of the Road Safety Act 1986.
Note Motor vehicle is defined in the Road Safety Act 1986.
(2) However, a reference in the Road Rules (except in this Division) to a road
does not include a reference to any shoulder of the road.
(3) The shoulder of the road means an area (not being part of the road)
adjoining the road that is open to or used by the public for driving, riding or
parking motor vehicles and to which no parking control sign applies.
Note Parking control sign is defined in the dictionary, and motor vehicle is defined in the Road Safety Act 1986.
Road Rules - Victoria
r. 11
4 P 2 28 October 1999 Victoria Government Gazette
Road Rules - Victoria
r.13
13. What is a road related area
(1) A road related area is any of the following—
(a) an area that divides a road;
(b) a footpath or nature strip adjacent to a road;
(c) an area that is not a road and that is open to the public and designated
for use by cyclists or animals;
(d) an area that is not a road and that is open to or used by the public for
driving, riding or parking motor vehicles;
(e) a place that is a road related area by virtue of a declaration under
section 3(2)(a) of the Road Safety Act 1986—
but does not include a place that is not a road related area by virtue of a
declaration under section 3(2)(a) of the Road Safety Act 1986.
Note Motor vehicle is defined in the Road Safety Act 1986.
(2) However, a reference in the Road Rules (except in this Division) to a
road related area includes a reference to any part of a road that is a shoulder
of the road.
Note Shoulder is defined in rule 12.

[snypereb]

Lucky I didnt go. Shattered I missed out on the free beer. Shattering about the cops giving out canaries at a show think thats going a little far.

[ratter]

As harsh as it is, what the cops have done is nothing new, it was going on years ago.

There used to be be quite a few car shows (not just displays) around Melb in the early 90's, it was common to see cops walking around taking down rego no's and then sitting around after the show to pull those cars over

[snypereb]

Originally Posted by ratter

As harsh as it is, what the cops have done is nothing new, it was going on years ago.

There used to be be quite a few car shows (not just displays) around Melb in the early 90's, it was common to see cops walking around taking down rego no's and then sitting around after the show to pull those cars over

Not all of us had our licences in the early 90's so its a new experience for some of us or most of us. Its a shame that the police have gone this far. But in the end they will never be able to stop the modifued car scene as much as they try or what they do. Getting cars that are sitting at a car show is cheap and dirty on there behalf.

[XA-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Thanks Jeff … although I would have thought someone with such a vast knowledge of law enforcement, as you have, would understand that these questions were put forward by a professional driver, not a lawyer or someone who would often find themselves in situations which would require an intimate knowledge of the legislation.

knowing where you can get a ticket is hardy intimate knowledge

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Let’s see, a highly publicised group who doesn’t know any better …
Serbs and Croats. They were responsible for the violence at the tennis.
People refusing not to do the Mexican Wave. They need to put a stop to this criminal element. Outlaw motorcycle gangs. I’d like to see the TMU slap a few defects on some Harleys parked outside the Coffin Cheaters’ clubhouse “on a Highway”. Public transport fare evaders, these people need to be put up against a wall and shot. G 20 protesters. They better go and bash a few uni students to show the public who’s boss. Werribee police. They threatened strike action, can’t have that.

that's an impressive diatribe .... made me smile !!

Originally Posted by Full Noise

With all of these high profile trouble makers out there, I’m surprised that the TMU had the time to go to Chadstone at all.

err, that's what the TMU do :

Originally Posted by Full Noise

You’d better hurry up and sell that XA, Jeff. That thing would have to be a mobile defect, wouldn’t it? I mean, you wouldn‘t be able to park it anywhere?

I know it will get a canary but I won't be whining like a snotty 2 year old when I do, I'll fix it.

[ratter]

Playing with modified cars is playing with the cops, we can not win, the best thing is keep your car as close to legal as you can and minimise the chances of getting a canary by picking your spots to hang.

If the cop wants he will put you off the road for any reason, I had a mate get canaried for front wheel alignment even though the front tyres showed no signs of uneven wear. The closer you are to RWC the less hassles it is to get back on the road. Older cars can get away with more mods as there are less standards they had to adhere to, so maybe get an older car as a project. Keeping your car tidy can give the impression of a better kept car and draw less attention to yourself

[snypereb]

Originally Posted by ratter

If the cop wants he will put you off the road for any reason,

Thats the sad part about it. You dont even have to be doing anything wrong. As much as they do though they will never be able to stop people from modifying there cars.

If your found doing something wrong then yes pull them over and go over the car for defects but its pathetic on there behalf doing it to cars sitting in a car show!!

[XA-Coupe]

Originally Posted by snypereb

Thats the sad part about it. You dont even have to be doing anything wrong. As much as they do though they will never be able to stop people from modifying there cars.

If your found doing something wrong then yes pull them over and go over the car for defects but its pathetic on there behalf doing it to cars sitting in a car show!!

wonder how the cars got to the show ??

I've said it one and I will say it again, it's not enthusiasts that are the problem. People who love their cars and treat them like gold don't generally drive like morons. But, the people who drive like morons usually have modified cars.
Whinging about it does no good.
Until people try to work with the police instead of against them it will always end up like this. The Summernats works okay because they spend a lot of time with the police. I am sure people still get nailed but you don't get a rubber fist for just driving a modded car around. There is a lesson in that.

[snypereb]

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

wonder how the cars got to the show ??

I've said it one and I will say it again, it's not enthusiasts that are the problem. People who love their cars and treat them like gold don't generally drive like morons. But, the people who drive like morons usually have modified cars.
Whinging about it does no good.
Until people try to work with the police instead of against them it will always end up like this. The Summernats works okay because they spend a lot of time with the police. I am sure people still get nailed but you don't get a rubber fist for just driving a modded car around. There is a lesson in that.

Personally I have never had a problem with police I just believe that the lengths they are going to and very extreme!

[angelfury]

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

I know it will get a canary but I won't be whining like a snotty 2 year old when I do, I'll fix it.

oh, that's precious!