drive com fg vs sidi ve. surprise! - Page 2

**PepeLePew** · 10-10-2009, 03:44 PM

I cant help but feel MarkS's annoyance. Whilst it is a good result,,,who listens? Even if Ford did the unusual and started spruiking the result, its unlikely most of the population will listen. They believe all the BS stuffed down their throat by the Holden marketing machine.

I love the way the Holden ad's dodge around the capacity change to achieve the economy, its all 'look at our SIDI'! Uses less fuel than Mondeo!! (sshhhh...we reduced the capacity too but we're not going to tell you unless you ask)

The above backs up some of the U.S. articles on the same donk...with the same observations. In the real world, it just doesnt work out.

Shows what a damn good engine the FG 4L is...

Kenaz · 10-10-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Hope they do an Auto XR8 V Auto AFM SS next.....

Why? Who buys either of those cars with fuel economy in mind?

4Vman · 10-10-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenaz

Why? Who buys either of those cars with fuel economy in mind?

Because Holden marketed the AFM 6.0l as having better fuel economy.
Not only doesnt it have but its slower too....

Kenaz · 10-10-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Because Holden marketed the AFM 6.0l as having better fuel economy.
Not only doesnt it have but its slower too....

Fair enough...

You're right, I've no doubt the XR8 would be quicker and possibly more economical.

351capri · 10-10-2009, 05:46 PM

all who are part of this forum know that holden are and have always been the b/s champions of the aust car industry. we also know that only boofheads that believe that b/s buy and drive holden rubbish. who are most likely to be smarter and more savvy than holden drivers? Ford drivers "of course"...

vztrt · 10-10-2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark s

I wonder how a test between the same 2 cars, sitting on the speed limits on a trip between Sydney and Melbourne would turn out. Still throw 2 adults and 2 teenage kids with bags and my guess is we would see simular figures.

Wasn't that the wheels test? Where the 3.0l just beat the Falcon. But the engine was bagged and it was gutless (surprise surprise for the Commo six).

Bucknaked · 10-10-2009, 06:30 PM

According to the latest ad from Holden, the new Commodore uses less fuel than a 4cyl Mondeo.

Bad Bird · 10-10-2009, 06:52 PM

But Holden claimed they were going to "out engineer" Ford. FAIL.

Bossxr8 · 10-10-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

All the mentioned catchphrases are good but nothing beats "which car company is always feeding you rubbish claims? Holden, of course!"

Nice.

Smoke Pursuit · 10-10-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

I still don't get why Holden see it as a great feat for their 3.0 to get from Sydney to Melbourne on one tank. I've done it in an Automatic EF Falcon for Christ's sake.

A 270 KW G6ET will do Syd to Melbourne on one tank...

Swordsman88 · 10-10-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

I hope I'm wrong but I think Ford don't have the balls to quote Drive. All the mentioned catchphrases are good but nothing beats "which car company is always feeding you rubbish claims? Holden, of course!" Then quote these results. Now's your chance, Ford.

I'm a bit in two minds on this falc'man. On the one hand, i think, XXXX them...they always talk rubbish and slant their advertising (most passive aggressive advertising tone in the world...) to make others look inferior, out of date, substandard etc, when it really them that represents this. So do a mazda and quote wheels, drive, motor etc.. Hell use quotes that slant it even more our way...why not.

But then i think maybe we would not only look better, but atcually get more sales on the long run by not bothering. Let the product speak for itself. The Ford of course ads are quite good because they have an undercurrent of simplicity...i.e. why bother checking our competitors, ford is best of course!!! In effect, using a smart person's version toyota advertising. Don't bother looking into other people's cars...just test drive a Ford, its the best 'of course'. The Focus ad is the weakest of the ads frankly...its stoops to direct attack.

So in short i dont' know which way to go. I suspect the latest ford of course advertising is a bit of an each way bet...take a dig at your opponent but not be obnoxious about it (toyota aurion ad anyone...).

I tell ya what though, irrespective of the whole 'up hill' bathurst test i still think Holden will be a bit disapointed with the results. Its not 'real world' for every driver but its a hell of alot more real world than tootling along on the highway at 100clicks. I'd have loved to see a 3.6 do the test...if that burnt more than the FG too (which may have happened) then you'd have to ask yourself why Holden bothered with the substantial investment at all....

**Luke Plaizier** · 10-10-2009, 09:24 PM

It's interesting that Toby Hagon was 'surprised'.

It looked like a blatant attempt for the guys at drive to construct a test that on paper the Commodore should have won. www.drive.com.au have been guilty of that before, and so have Wheels. Drive didn't even pick the most economical car in the Falcon range, and Wheels chose the MOST UNECONOMICAL I6 in Fords range to do the comparison. Not exactly apples to apples - but typical.

Another case in point - Toby picked on the FPV GS on it's release in one of his articles, suggesting that a lower powered engine without a fuel economy improvement is a questionable move. And yet here we are now with a VEII HSV R8 vs GTS, one with 317kW, the other with 325kW, no fuel economy difference - and Drive are conspicuously quiet on the topic.

This economy test is all the more newsworthy because it was contrived comparison that backfired on them.

Lukeyson

Falc'man · 10-10-2009, 09:51 PM

Swordy, sometimes the "wrong" thing to do is the right thing to do. Plus, alot has gone into this test for it to go unnoticed. It's more a case of: on one hand, what's wrong with shaming Holden? And on the other, what's wrong with shaming Holden?

WASP · 10-10-2009, 09:57 PM

After averaging between 11-12ltrs per 100 in stop start city driving in my auto FG XR6T this result comes as no surprise. Ford have done a wonderful job in making the big 4.0 more efficient, and powerful at the same time. Can't speak for the new Commodore but it would have always had to be pretty damn amazing to make the Falcon drive train package look second best.

snappy · 10-10-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

I hope I'm wrong but I think Ford don't have the balls to quote Drive. All the mentioned catchphrases are good but nothing beats "which car company is always feeding you rubbish claims? Holden, of course!" Then quote these results. Now's your chance, Ford.

I hope ford dont have the balls - because a comment like made public will cost them alot of money it would be just asking for a defamation law suit.

gtfpv · 10-10-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

I think Ford will respond, they have been agressive of late, there was an paper add for the mondeo wagon braging about airbags and carry space etc, mentioning the Holden Sportswagon directly.

It would be a crule blow for holden, given that they stated the the new commodore uses less fuel then a mondeo...that claime looks very rough now.

Holden still have a way with marketing, fuzzy, warm family adds. Smiling children etc.

They make me sick.

hmmmm but still manges to outdo ford with giant fingers walking across a mountain drop back whilst touring in a new falcon . that should of been an add for driving under the influence of drugs , or the efffects of drivers fatigue after an 18 hour stint behind the wheel . ( sorry , couldn't help myself )

Franco Cozzo · 10-10-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

hmmmm but still manges to outdo ford with giant fingers walking across a mountain drop back whilst touring in a new falcon . that should of been an add for driving under the influence of drugs , or the efffects of drivers fatigue after an 18 hour stint behind the wheel . ( sorry , couldn't help myself )

I agree, except the marketing department should have all been shot for that stunt, then cloned and shot again, then the guy who let the ad go through, deserves to get painfully killed.

InTrail · 11-10-2009, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

A 270 KW G6ET will do Syd to Melbourne on one tank...

Wish I could agree, but the most I've ever got out of a tank was 648kms. DTE was 8kms, but I wasn't game to test out its accuracy.

Serial_Fool · 11-10-2009, 12:55 AM

Notice since the new president of ford australia has been around the advertisements have become alot more effective. Bill Osbourne was sent here to tide him over untill retirement and made lots of promises and didn't deliever. Ultimately his decision to run those finger adverts really doomed the launch of the FG. Buela (sp?) isn't afriad of making digs at the opposition AND he approves commercials that make sense.

GTpilot · 11-10-2009, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InTrail

Wish I could agree, but the most I've ever got out of a tank was 648kms. DTE was 8kms, but I wasn't game to test out its accuracy.

Take more note of the "fuel used" figure.
In the GT, DTE will give me about 460k per tank. When I just top up and dont reset. at the point where I have used 68L (Tank capacity) I have usually done just over 500K, thats a mix of city, freeway and "Spirited" driving.

All highway, I could not see why I would't get 650-700K from a tank, maybe more. But I'm talking a BOSS 315 engine, not a 4.0l 6cyl.

Football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden spin!!.

SSVPom · 11-10-2009, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDAA

After averaging between 11-12ltrs per 100 in stop start city driving in my auto FG XR6T this result comes as no surprise. Ford have done a wonderful job in making the big 4.0 more efficient, and powerful at the same time.

... which is pretty amazing considering my AU2 Fairmont Ghia never gets better than 15l/100kms around town with the wife behind the wheel, and my Liberty 2.0R's trip computer returns a consistent 10.6 - 11.0 l/100km around town with me behind the wheel.

The current Commodore product by itself is a good car - it's just that Ford is equal in many ways and better in others ! Shame their marketing sucks and the public buy 1000 less Falcons than Commodores per month.

The G6ET Spot · 11-10-2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

A 270 KW G6ET will do Syd to Melbourne on one tank...

NO it won't.
But it does get exceptional fuel figures for a performance engine. I came back from Newcastle last night and with cruise control set at 118k/h my G6ET averaged 8.8l/100k's back home to Parramatta. My round trip from Sydney to Buladelah and Newcastle to Parramatta with a fair bit of spirited driving netted 9.9l/100k's not bad for a car with only 5000kms on the clock.

The Commodore won't get from Melbourne to sydney on one tank either, Holden themselves quote that the fuel economy is 9.3l/100k's. Yet Melbourne to Sydney is 880kms.
They only have a 73litre tank, so they would be running out of fuel around Mittagong.

But the bogans will still buy it as they will believe whatever they are spun

ivorya · 11-10-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAPID XR8

NO it won't.

The Commodore won't get from Melbourne to sydney on one tank either, Holden themselves quote that the fuel economy is 9.3l/100k's. Yet Melbourne to Sydney is 880kms.
They only have a 73litre tank, so they would be running out of fuel around Mittagong.

But the bogans will still buy it as they will believe whatever they are spun

The problem with the claims that Holden have made, is they haven't told anyone how they achieved this result.
Wheels mag did and article a couple of months ago using the Auto SS, the one with cyl deactivation,with the headlines stating exactly the same'Sydney to Melbourne on 1 tank of fuel'. Reading furthur they say windows up all they way, no aircon on, a max of 90 (or80)kmph.
Maybe holden have done the same thing, sitting on 80km/hr with no aircon on.

Who in the REAL world would be doing this???

Angeldust · 11-10-2009, 10:25 AM

the air-con is just ornamental on my car.. i never turn it on :P

**Dave R** · 11-10-2009, 11:44 AM

I'm getting sick of all these BS claims by manufacturers! If Holden had to run a Commodore at 80 or 90 km/h with no A/C while slip streaming the HRT transporter from Sydney to Melbourne just to get there in one tank, then their claim is simply false advertising because nobody in the real world will be able to emulate it!

I'm eagerly waiting for Wheels or another publication to take a 3.0 SIDI and test this Syd-Melb claim out under real world conditions.

And I don't know about anyone else, but I still don't understand this whole fuel economy argument - what's the point? The difference between a normal car and a fuel sipper [read: Holden's best SIDI claim vs 5 speed XT claim] per year is only in the hundreds of dollars, provided you drive like a grandma. If you are buying a $40k+ car, how is saving a few hundred dollars over the course of a year going to be a selling point? Or is it about saving the environment? Seriously, [Mr. T voice] get some nuts!

Chilliman · 11-10-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastus

Chilliman, I've just sent Ford an email via their website, pointing out the drive.com.au Bathurst fuel econ test, along with a link to your quoted post.
Hey, there's all the content of what should be their next series of Falcon ad's to combat the SIDI Commo right there! Real world results & slogan!

Thanks for the vote of confidence Rastus. I really do hope Ford pick up the ball and run with it on this one. They don't seem to celebrate good news as much as they should.

mik · 11-10-2009, 04:26 PM

no 2 ways about it good torque lets you cruise up the hills with less down changes, also lets you get away from the lights with minimal throttle opening, perhaps if Holden purchased some Ford engines to get good fuel economy and power they`ed "go better"

.

flappist · 11-10-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I'm getting sick of all these BS claims by manufacturers! If Holden had to run a Commodore at 80 or 90 km/h with no A/C while slip streaming the HRT transporter from Sydney to Melbourne just to get there in one tank, then their claim is simply false advertising because nobody in the real world will be able to emulate it!

I'm eagerly waiting for Wheels or another publication to take a 3.0 SIDI and test this Syd-Melb claim out under real world conditions.

And I don't know about anyone else, but I still don't understand this whole fuel economy argument - what's the point? The difference between a normal car and a fuel sipper [read: Holden's best SIDI claim vs 5 speed XT claim] per year is only in the hundreds of dollars, provided you drive like a grandma. If you are buying a $40k+ car, how is saving a few hundred dollars over the course of a year going to be a selling point? Or is it about saving the environment? Seriously, [Mr. T voice] get some nuts!

Do you really believe that Holden have misrepresented their product or are you just playing the Ford is always right Holden is always wrong game?

If you think that they have lied then rather than just post about it here make a formal complaint.

http://www.adstandards.com.au/pages/page38.asp

prydey · 11-10-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAPID XR8

The Commodore won't get from Melbourne to sydney on one tank either, Holden themselves quote that the fuel economy is 9.3l/100k's. Yet Melbourne to Sydney is 880kms.
They only have a 73litre tank, so they would be running out of fuel around Mittagong.

yes it will. 9.3L/100km is the adr81/02 combined figure. the ad says over 900km to a tank and the fine print at the bottom says 'highway driving'!

73/900 = 8.1L/100km which isn't exaclty earth shattering.

as mentioned already, there are plenty of cars that achieve this and better.

**Dave R** · 11-10-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Do you really believe that Holden have misrepresented their product or are you just playing the Ford is always right Holden is always wrong game?

If you think that they have lied then rather than just post about it here make a formal complaint.

http://www.adstandards.com.au/pages/page38.asp

Well I did say "if" Holden used questionable tactics, which another member suggested. It wouldn't surprise me if they did, their marketing department tends to sensationalise things. Unlike some, I still have both eyes; Ford's claims are hardly achievable either. I also own a VE Commodore ;)

I'm looking forward to the Sydney to Melbourne claim being tested in the real world!