Ford to shut down plants in July, shed jobs

[BroadyFord]

It seems there are two things that happen annually around the same time regarding FoA:

1. January-March: Ford execs at the Detroit Motor Show refuse to give any hints about the company's local manufacturing future leading to negative articles in the media about Falcon and in turn, a reduction in vehicle demand.

2. May-July: FoA announces job losses at Broady because of the need to "match production to demand".

Number 1 has happened each year since around 2009 and number 2 occurred twice in 2008, 2011 and now 2012.

If FoA wish to continue like this they may as well schedule a permanent plant shutdown. Workers must really be suffering from the uncertainty.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Transit? Mondeo? C-Max? B-Max? Something they can't get enough of here, or want to introduce?

....

Mondeo?

Bantam.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

No one is "forcing" anyone to do anything, the amount of choice on the market says buyers go elsewhere regardle

And in there lies the problem.

Rather than offer people what they want, they limit the options and leave no alternative for people but to buy elsewhere.
Its too easy to say its due to costs etc.

When the Sportswagon was unveiled a large % of users here claimed it would cannibilise the sedan market. I disagreed and said it would help secure sales from people who didnt want to buy a Craptiva and who held brand loyalty in high regard.
Naturally, to go against the AFF bandwagon at the time left my opinion unsupported...fast forward to now and the reality is that whilst unattractive on paper, the Sportswagon did just that, kept sales of vehicles built by Aussies at viable enough levels to keep the plant alive.
Ford canned its V8 in 82 and survived off the back of a popular model which sold in huge numbers including fleet sales.
Many enthusiasts were not impressed but the ship kept sailing
Fast forward to now and they have again removed the V8 from its range, only this time they have openly admitted they dont want to be a V8 company or support fleet sales with EB or a diesel version and inturn alienated a huge share of the market.

The Falcon cannot survive if it is to rely on private sales to the modern commuter.

Wether we like it or not, i believe Ford have little interest in the Falcon and will only keep it as long as need be.
As was said earlier, If the Terry is where they are at, Ford need to invest in making it a more attractive package, not worrying about 4cyl turbo versions of a dieing breed.
By that i mean offering an XR6, XR6T.
Not an overpriced, undersold F6X either.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Insert typical AFF negative statment here....

Ok einstein, how can Ford say this is a postive?

Maybe they can say they are reducing greenhouse gas emissions by shutting the plant for 7 days next month?

I can't see how anyone can make a postitive out of this.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Scott

I'd like to think shut downs are more to do with Union negotiations than outright necessity.

What the hell does it have to do with the union, Ford are building way too many vehicles than what they are selling. What should they do, keep churning them out at full rate forever and end up with months of supply sitting on grass unsold, sending the companies costs sky high.

Its cheaper for the company to have down days than to stick expensive vehicles on grass.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

In a recent book released by Bryce Hoffman on the recovery of Ford in America,
he was given unfetted access to Ford senior personnel and anecdotal stories
on the promise that those person's identities not be revealed.

One startling area was the way vehicle programs were assessed, managers would over estimate
sales projections, Ford would actually lie to itself to get programs through.
This was common practice through out Ford NA and the rest of the Ford global regions.

One of the big changes under Mulally was "no more lying", a product has to have sufficient
sales potential and a good rate of Income otherwise it will not be funded.

Production is not all about Falcon, it now bares far more on the success of Territory - maximizing sales is vital.

At the moment, Ford has adjusted Falcon sedan and Territory to a 1:1 production mix
but I'm betting that may go to three Territorys to every two Falcon sedans as the
buyer emphasis changes more to SUVs and away from large sedans.

I hope this opens Ford's eyes to other potential Territory models that might bring sales,
2WD XR6 or XR6 Turbo Territory?, Ecoboost I-4 RWd Territory?, 2.2 I-4 diesel Territory as a base model?

I'm sure the imagination could go wild with other variations with potential sales..

It will be interesting to see wether they put more effort into Territory than Falcon for 2014, or wether its already too lateto change?

When you look at the number of Falcon models ie XT, G6, G6E, G6E Turbo, XR6, XR6 Turbo, in either NA6, T4, LPi or T6, plus ute plus FPV versus the Territory range that consists of just TX, TS and Titanium in either diesel or petrol you can see that the Falcon has at least 4 times as many derivitives than Territory does. They definately should look to expand the Territory range. Like in that thread I started a while ago they should have a Territory Sport and a Titanium LTD.

[Nikked]

Terri moves full swing, exports to thailand....plant upgrades...there are a few things to be positive about.

No use acting defeated untill you are. (NSW should try that tonight)

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It will be interesting to see wether they put more effort into Territory than Falcon for 2014, or wether its already too lateto change?

When you look at the number of Falcon models ie XT, G6, G6E, G6E Turbo, XR6, XR6 Turbo, in either NA6, T4, LPi or T6, plus ute plus FPV versus the Territory range that consists of just TX, TS and Titanium in either diesel or petrol you can see that the Falcon has at least 4 times as many derivitives than Territory does. They definately should look to expand the Territory range. Like in that thread I started a while ago they should have a Territory Sport and a Titanium LTD.

A Territory Sport is a no-brainer.

Territory Trakka with downhill assist, grey plastic add-on wheel arches and bumper accents and a bit more knobbly tyres would be a sales killer.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

More negative press...who do you think told them that they were closing down for a week...

Ford only have themselves to blame in all of this, for too long they have dictated to their customers what they could and couldnt have and its all coming home to bite them.

Now, more than ever before the buying public want more choice from their purchases be it cars or whatever, to expect people to buy certain products to get what they want is alienating their market.

If Joe bloggs wants a RWD wagon to fit the family in and tow his tinny to his holiday destination, he has to have a Territory or look elsewhere.
If Joe bloggs wants a RWD diesel for efficiency, he has to have a territory or look elsewhere.
If Joe Bloggs wants a RWD V8 he has to buy an FPV or look elsewhere.
But if Joe want a Focus, no probs, we can do that. We just wont pay to manufacture it here.

All of that may suit the one eyed blue oval buyer, but does nothing to entice average Joe who just wants what he wants.

The EB4, whilst great on paper, will struggle to attract the private buyers it is intended for.
Infact making a vehicle to rival a segment already flooded with cheap off shore options is ridiculous.

Personally, i believe Ford has lost its identity in Australia.
Its not sure if it wants to be a rival for Hyundai and sell 4cyl cars, or Toyota and sell SUV's.

One things for sure, it certainly is no rival for Holden who sell large RWD cars with a choice of 6 or 8cyl engines, wagon, ute and sedans in a number of equipment levels and makes no excuses for doing it...all from a company which cant make money apparently.

But when Ford made a RWD wagon, Joe Bloggs did not buy one.
Also when Ford made a RWD V8 again Joe Bloggs did not buy one.
Joe Bloggs did, however buy a lot of Territories and is doing so still especially the diesel.

But enough of Joe Bloggs, which NEW Falcon did YOU buy?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Terri moves full swing, exports to thailand....plant upgrades...there are a few things to be positive about.

No use acting defeated untill you are. (NSW should try that tonight)

Exports are probably the only thing that can save the place. Hopefully Territory exports to Thailand can be spread throughout Asia into other countries.

[Nikked]

...and hopefully territory can help save the falcon :-)



the only thing i can see stopping the exports, is the bogus taxes...dispite free trade.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by flappist

But when Ford made a RWD wagon, Joe Bloggs did not buy one.
Also when Ford made a RWD V8 again Joe Bloggs did not buy one.
Joe Bloggs did, however buy a lot of Territories and is doing so still especially the diesel.

But enough of Joe Bloggs, which NEW Falcon did YOU buy?

Incorrect,

the 12 year old BFIII wagon with only 4 star ANCAP sells as much as the full FG ute range, and XT wagon was the biggest selling single variant in the Falcon range.

The old and out gunned 5.4 XR8 outsold the current supercharged FPV range by 4 times over. The current V8 Holden range outsells every single 6 cylinder, ecoboost and Ecolpi Falcon - but no one wants a V8 right?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Naturally, to go against the AFF bandwagon at the time left my opinion unsupported...fast forward to now and the reality is that whilst unattractive on paper, the Sportswagon did just that, kept sales of vehicles built by Aussies at viable enough levels to keep the plant alive.

You cant be serous? Sportswagon to Holden is Territory to Ford.. Sports wagon has done nothing to Holden that Territory has not done for Ford. The only difference in Australian product between them is Cruze. Large RWD sedon, utes & WAGON sell about the same numbers between Holden & Ford!! Just becuase one car has a Commodore bagde & the other has a Territory badge makes no differnence to them coming down the production line in an Australian factory!!

[P6LTD351]

I'd like to think that we here are the 'die hards'. If we cannot share our VERY REAL concern amongst each other, who else can we share with?

Flappist, you come up with good stuff quite often, however, the "which NEW Falcon did you buy?" line is old and has got nothing to do with the credibility of our discussion.

I'd like to think that I am able to be concerned for FORD and have a right to discuss with my FORD brothers even though I don't have a new one.

The fact that I could have bought an EF XR8 heater tap off ebay for $25 but supported my local dealer and FORD by paying $100 is my small way of showing support. I buy all of my overpriced parts GENUINE from FORD. I recognise that they are OVERPRICED, however, I feel good in supporting my local dealer and FORD.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Incorrect,

the 12 year old BFIII wagon with only 4 star ANCAP sells as much as the full FG ute range, and XT wagon was the biggest selling single variant in the Falcon range.

The old and out gunned 5.4 XR8 outsold the current supercharged FPV range by 4 times over. The current V8 Holden range outsells every single 6 cylinder, ecoboost and Ecolpi Falcon - but no one wants a V8 right?

Ford sells far more turbo 4s and 6s, LPG 6s and SC V8s than holden so obviously no one wants to buy holdens......or is that just a equally stupid thing to say.

And the Toyota Corolla and Mazda 3 outsells all of those so lets make Falcon a N/A FWD bubble......

But apart from that 12 years ago was 2000, the AU model was around then not BFIII.

The 5.4 never ever sold against the 5.0 so comparing them is just foolish.

[duaned]

I remember the days when the Falcon in one's driveway was a common sight. Which got me thinking, what types of cars do the children ( now adults) of these Falcon owner's have as cars? As it turns out most do not have, and do not want cars like their parents have, or grown up with. When I get this response I am trying to find out WHY. And there is the choice. There must be over 50 + SUV's out there for soccor mums and lovers of Toorak tractors, and I wouldn't even want to name the amount of small cars that are available on the market today. This, not the dealerships, service depts. etc that are destroying the Falcon in my opinion. Couple that with the good reputation that small cars receive, the height advantage of SUV's ( because they want to see over everthing else) and lower running costs and we have the answer to the demise of the Falcon. When this happens it will be a sad day, indeed.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by flappist

But enough of Joe Bloggs, which NEW Falcon did YOU buy?

The extra large Falcon wagon (otherwise know as the Territory diesel)

[flappist]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

I'd like to think that we here are the 'die hards'. If we cannot share our VERY REAL concern amongst each other, who else can we share with?

Flappist, you come up with good stuff quite often, however, the "which NEW Falcon did you buy?" line is old and has got nothing to do with the credibility of our discussion.

I'd like to think that I am able to be concerned for FORD and have a right to discuss with my FORD brothers even though I don't have a new one.

The fact that I could have bought an EF XR8 heater tap off ebay for $25 but supported my local dealer and FORD by paying $100 is my small way of showing support. I buy all of my overpriced parts GENUINE from FORD. I recognise that they are OVERPRICED, however, I feel good in supporting my local dealer and FORD.

The credibility of it is simple. If you do not buy new Falcons why should anyone let alone Ford take any notice of what you think of their vehicle range.

Ford are in this situation because not enough people are buying their vehicles.
If you are not buying their vehicles then you are part of the problem and getting all upset about it will change nothing.

You may think my line is old but that does not make it untrue.

[Elements]

Originally Posted by flappist

But when Ford made a RWD wagon, Joe Bloggs did not buy one.
Also when Ford made a RWD V8 again Joe Bloggs did not buy one.
Joe Bloggs did, however buy a lot of Territories and is doing so still especially the diesel.

But enough of Joe Bloggs, which NEW Falcon did YOU buy?

XR6 Limited Edition with a manual gearbox. November 2011 build, delivered December 2011. My first new car. Do not regret it, nor have I regretted it since making the decision to take the Falcon. And any chance of that happening faded away at my first drive.

The other contenders (from Ford, anyway):
New (runout) XR5T (looked and felt old inside IMO, and I couldn't get comfy in the seat)
New XR6T Ute (couldn't afford insurance, else this would have won.. was on sale!)
New Focus Titanium (something was 'missing', couldn't quite pin it)

So why did I go Falcon? Because I'm passionate about the product (a little piece of my work lives in Falcon), I'm passionate about the work FoA do (although I don't work there any more, I still keep in touch with a lot of the guys and girls), I love the sound of that I6 especially between 2-3,000rpm, and I like having the space to carry friends in comfort and other miscellaneous stuff. Also, perfect for highway cruising - which I do a lot of.

If Ford could communicate to the masses about how Falcon could suit their wants/needs, we wouldn't be in this much of a dire situation. Sales would still be dropping because the market is shifting, granted. But does it have to be dropping so much? No, it doesn't, if you get the Falcon 'story' out there.

I only know how it would suit my wants/needs because I'm a car enthusiast, and an FoA enthusiast. I just wish the Falcon 'story' would be better told to the masses at the moment..

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by flappist

The credibility of it is simple. If you do not buy new Falcons why should anyone let alone Ford take any notice of what you think of their vehicle range.

Ford are in this situation because not enough people are buying their vehicles.
If you are not buying their vehicles then you are part of the problem and getting all upset about it will change nothing.

You may think my line is old but that does not make it untrue.

I hope Ford doesn't have this attitude. They SHOULD be caring about the people NOT buying their vehicles. That's the issue. WHY aren't people buying their vehicles? Oh, that's right, I haven't bought a new Falcon so I should just shut up....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

I hope Ford doesn't have this attitude. They SHOULD be caring about the people NOT buying their vehicles. That's the issue. WHY aren't people buying their vehicles? Oh, that's right, I haven't bought a new Falcon so I should just shut up....

So what new Falcon would you buy if they made your perfect model?

I am very sure Ford care about people who buy new cars that are not Fords.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by flappist

So what new Falcon would you buy if they made your perfect model?

There is nothing wrong with the Falcon.

Sometimes I think most people must work on the mines here with the regularity of new cars that they buy. I cannot afford ANY new car right now. Does that mean that I cannot contribute to this discussion?

How many people in high places at FORD that make vital decisions on the future of the Falcon actually purchase a FORD?

For what it's worth, I would buy an XR6T in manual if I had the spare cash.

[borough]

Originally Posted by flappist

NEW Falcon did YOU buy?

November 2011 - a FG XR6 limited edition

Why did I purchase a Falcon?
- I have always wanted a Falcon
- My wife and I have a little one on the way
- Great for highway cruising. I drive 60km each way to work mostly at highway speeds
- LPG. A Falcon on LPG costs less in fuel that my old Suzuki Swift

As much as I want to stay positive I can't see the Falcon or Territory surviving past 2016. The number of sales do not appear to be high enough to sustain production let alone further development. I had a browse on the Ford US website and it looks like there are replacements for the Territory in the Escape and Explorer. The Explorer even looks like the Territory.

Perhaps a locally produced AWD Taurus could be a replacement of the Falcon. The 2013 model looks nice (Esp the SHO) and I could see myself driving that. I can never see myself buying a Mondeo, I would rather a Camry before a Mondeo.

[FGX-351]

With fuel prices recently dropping and media reports that the price drop is continuing for the next week or so who knows maybe we might see even more price drops in the near future.

Imo any significant price drops will be a huge shot in the arm for the falcon.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by flappist

The credibility of it is simple. If you do not buy new Falcons why should anyone let alone Ford take any notice of what you think of their vehicle range.

Ford are in this situation because not enough people are buying their vehicles.
If you are not buying their vehicles then you are part of the problem and getting all upset about it will change nothing.

You may think my line is old but that does not make it untrue.

Flappist, if i wanted a new Ford product i'd buy 1 for cash tomorrow, no i'd buy 2 to keep the wife happy so dont use that one on me.
The truth is i dont buy new cars, been there, done that.
If i was to buy a new car everytime Ford needed a buyer boost the only person benefitting from it would be the dealer on my tradein.
I certainly dont need a new car to travel the 50k i do every day to work and back.

What i do possess is the ability to make a comment about a company i love, which is obviously being tarnished by way of poor marketing and product line up.

Im not going to sit back and refrain from venting my concerns because you dont like the tone of it.
Just like your old acorn about buying new, perhaps if you dont like what people write in certain threads you dont have to read it..Im sure there are other threads for you to exercise your influence.

[P6LTD351]

Also, how often do I need to buy a new Falcon? Every year? 3 Years? Does my credibility to this discussion end when the factory warranty expires? What about the old times where a guy would buy his family a car and keep it for at least 10 years? Does his opinion not count anymore?

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

You cant be serous? Sportswagon to Holden is Territory to Ford.. Sports wagon has done nothing to Holden that Territory has not done for Ford. The only difference in Australian product between them is Cruze. Large RWD sedon, utes & WAGON sell about the same numbers between Holden & Ford!! Just becuase one car has a Commodore bagde & the other has a Territory badge makes no differnence to them coming down the production line in an Australian factory!!

Very true. Its an interesting situation - the lack of choice is most probably hurting Falcon sales, but the flip side is that once you include Territory, sales of Ford and Holdens local models are almost identical. My understanding of the Cruze is that its basically a CKD arrangement there simply to keep Holdens production lines going in order to cover fixed costs, so its sales numbers are not as relevant when comparing locally designed and built models.

The big question is, if Ford offered the XR8 and G8E, how many would actually sell? Plenty more than ecoboost and ECOLPi I'd wager. If Ford are no longer concentrating on the fleet market, it beggars belief that they've poured all that cash into economy specials with zero aspirational appeal, while ignoring the sports/luxury end of the market that actually has a chance of selling in the private market while dragging Falcons image a little further up-market in the process. Combine that with an expanded Territory range like whats been mentioned, and sales would look better than they do now.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It will be interesting to see wether they put more effort into Territory than Falcon for 2014, or wether its already too lateto change?

When you look at the number of Falcon models ie XT, G6, G6E, G6E Turbo, XR6, XR6 Turbo, in either NA6, T4, LPi or T6, plus ute plus FPV versus the Territory range that consists of just TX, TS and Titanium in either diesel or petrol you can see that the Falcon has at least 4 times as many derivitives than Territory does. They definately should look to expand the Territory range. Like in that thread I started a while ago they should have a Territory Sport and a Titanium LTD.

Territory SR could be introduced into the range as the sports model, where 'S' means SUV. I know the SR badge has been used for limited run trim and alloys specials, but the scope is there to introduce it permanently as a parallel to the Falcon XR range. When you think about it, there isnt a lot of work involved in it and the only unique parts would be a sports skirt kit for the Terri.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by The-ShowStoPPa

With fuel prices recently dropping and media reports that the price drop is continuing for the next week or so who knows maybe we might see even more price drops in the near future.

Imo any significant price drops will be a huge shot in the arm for the falcon.

I think that ship has sailed, and people are aware that petrol will always creep back up in the long run. The days of petrol being cheaper than $1 a litre are long gone and never to return.

Once the Europeans sort themselves out it will just jump up again.

[ebxr8240]

Has the diesel come out yet ??