Advice on tow cars under $15K

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

BF on gas with towpack

With HD raised springs ... cos in stock form they have no ground clearance.

[RAPID_BA]

surely a AU or BA i6 will out tow an xtrail or pajero or whatever.

surely even in poor condition you will get more privately than a trade in. Basically as a trade your getting nothing.

Then buy a AU with windsor V8 or a BA with the 3V 5.4.... those things will tow a house.

[Gobes32]

What if he has to drive throught wet paddocks?

[LethalLeigh]

Thanks for your input guys. It's unlikely we'll get another Falcon for the time being as traction is a bit of an issue at the agistment where the horse is kept, hence the focus on 4x4s.

I'm sure I could still get something for the BA privately but it needs about $1000 spent on paint and a few other things. It's kind of at the point where I'd rather leave it with a dealer than try and sell it ourselves. Recent experiences have shown me the used car market is pretty flat at the moment in SA anyway.

The trick I have is the set of criteria the missus has in finding a car and it makes my head explode. Goes a little like this:

- Needs to tow around 1500kg though 2000kg is desirable
- Needs to have at least the same level of equipment and perception of interior quality as the BA (let's not turn this into an argument about BA interior finishes though)
- She really wants to reduce her fuel bill as well as it's an 80km round trip to see the horse up to 4 times a week plus the once a month or so towing to events.

At some point we will need to compromise, that I'm aware of but it's just trying to find something that ticks as many boxes as possible.

[LethalLeigh]

In my mind at the moment I'm thinking the short list looks something like this:

- Early GU Patrol with 2.8L TD
- Disco 2 Td5
- D22 Navara dual cab (early ones seem reasonable if we can find a decent diesel)
- NM Pajero if we can find the right one though most dealers add $5K to it if it's a diesel here.

[Gobes32]

I can't imagine 15k will buy you a AWD Territory in great condition, and you still have the fuel use issues, a diesel Patrol might be the best option.

[El Venom]

I tend to agree with most and say get a 4x4 but personally I wouldnt get a landcruiser unless you get a 60 series or older as the 80 series onwards are full time 4wd and 99% its useless. Partrols would be good but if you look at smaller 4x4's like pajeros or jackaroos you could find they struggle a bit.

I just noticed you are concidering a D22. Agian decent car but I found working for nissan for a few years that the 4x4 versions have an issue with there transfer case not being as strong as other 4x4's

My wife and I have a pajero and it is very capable for towing it just seems lacking on inclines at normal speed. For heavy towing (towing a horse float with 2 horses in it) we actually prefer to use an EF wagon with the h/d tow kit. At speed it feels more planted and inclines hardly worry it which for us is good as we live in an area thats all mountains.

Only issue with the EF is when your on trying to get moving on damp ground. We got around it by fitting an LSD and running some A/T tires. Also with the E-series wagon they can still be found cheap and if you wanted you could upgrade some bits like suspension and brakes for piece of mind and still have a relatively cheap tow car thats more then capable of towing 2.5t.

[LethalLeigh]

Originally Posted by 836Falcon

I tend to agree with most and say get a 4x4 but personally I wouldnt get a landcruiser unless you get a 60 series or older as the 80 series onwards are full time 4wd and 99% its useless. Partrols would be good but if you look at smaller 4x4's like pajeros or jackaroos you could find they struggle a bit.

I just noticed you are concidering a D22. Agian decent car but I found working for nissan for a few years that the 4x4 versions have an issue with there transfer case not being as strong as other 4x4's

My wife and I have a pajero and it is very capable for towing it just seems lacking on inclines at normal speed. For heavy towing (towing a horse float with 2 horses in it) we actually prefer to use an EF wagon with the h/d tow kit. At speed it feels more planted and inclines hardly worry it which for us is good as we live in an area thats all mountains.

Only issue with the EF is when your on trying to get moving on damp ground. We got around it by fitting an LSD and running some A/T tires. Also with the E-series wagon they can still be found cheap and if you wanted you could upgrade some bits like suspension and brakes for piece of mind and still have a relatively cheap tow car thats more then capable of towing 2.5t.

Your issues with the EF are the same as what we have now with the BA. As soon as winter hits up at the property it's slip n slide time. We had previously considered an LSD and some more capable tyres but we'll most likely go for a 4x4 still.

Interesting point with the D22 too, thanks for the heads up.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by LethalLeigh

Your issues with the EF are the same as what we have now with the BA. As soon as winter hits up at the property it's slip n slide time. We had previously considered an LSD and some more capable tyres but we'll most likely go for a 4x4 still.

Interesting point with the D22 too, thanks for the heads up.

You're much better off going that way. Sure a RWD V8 sedan has the power, but it doesn't have the chassis and suspension made for towing. The 4x4 will last longer after heavy towing, plus you will always have the traction. On top of that, you will have better resale when it's time to upgrade.

[Mayzie]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

surely a AU or BA i6 will out tow an xtrail or pajero or whatever.

surely even in poor condition you will get more privately than a trade in. Basically as a trade your getting nothing.

Then buy a AU with windsor V8 or a BA with the 3V 5.4.... those things will tow a house.

so true this is why I sold my Pajero to buy the XR8 to tow our caravan, as off road was not required anymore due to the limited places you can go these days.
Although if I had to tow a trailer through paddocks or what else a Pajero would be my choice of 4X4 again thats for sure, where abouts in Adelaide are you Lethal?

[mik]

problem solved !

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/d...e:7500,10000~1
edit..... might want to put some more paddock worthy tyres.

[Brazen]

The large RWD Aussie cars are great, low centre of gravity, wide track, long wheelbase, plenty of grunt - they are very stable towing platforms.

LSDs help a lot in the wet and honestly should be standard on every car with a tow bar. When I have approached a really boggy paddock I get out and lead the horse over to the car rather than driving the car to the horse. Of course you may be in a different situation where you park the car.

[mik]

here`s another, you where willing to pay 15, with the 5 left over you could put it on the good gas.....
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/d...e:7500,10000~1

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by chevypower

You're much better off going that way. Sure a RWD V8 sedan has the power, but it doesn't have the chassis and suspension made for towing. The 4x4 will last longer after heavy towing, plus you will always have the traction. On top of that, you will have better resale when it's time to upgrade.

Im asking the question that I dont know the answer for.

Sure the 4X4 has the traction advantage but do they have any torque? I have not driven one but do they barely pull themselves out of a ditch?

[Mayzie]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Im asking the question that I dont know the answer for.

Sure the 4X4 has the traction advantage but do they have any torque? I have not driven one but do they barely pull themselves out of a ditch?

Turbo Diesels yes
petrols no different to a holden 6

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Im asking the question that I dont know the answer for.

Sure the 4X4 has the traction advantage but do they have any torque? I have not driven one but do they barely pull themselves out of a ditch?

A decent TD has a mountain of torque ... and when needed with a low range gearbox as well ... it comes in handy with some situations where conventional vehicles just have way too long gearing.

[Polyal]

Do you need AWD? Surely you could sneak into an early Tez RWD, maybe even a AWD for $15k. Id get that over an AU wagon for the better torque, get a BTR so its easier to repair etc, get a transcooler onto it and done.

I cant get onto carsales at the moment..but...ebay has heaps.

ZF equipped.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2007-Ford...item3a6e07f20b

BTR
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2005-Ford...item20bdda35cf

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2004-Ford...item3a661dafb8

Reckon this would go for $15k too

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ford-Terr...item1c22502562

[Mechan1k]

AWD Territory comes with auxilliary transmission cooler as standard on the old 4-speeds.

[mik]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Im asking the question that I dont know the answer for.

Sure the 4X4 has the traction advantage but do they have any torque? I have not driven one but do they barely pull themselves out of a ditch?

4wd are a bit heavier built and geared appropriately, it`s not about getting up the hill fast, it`s about getting the job done without over stressing the transmission and engine and suspension and doing it in comfort, obviously a big diesel will out pull a petrol engine, but i think there are trade offs for that though(becoming more truck like unless it`s of the more pricey variety), i d rather a petrol v8 or a big 6 unless its a kenworth, then i`ll have the diesel option.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

surely a AU or BA i6 will out tow an xtrail or pajero or whatever.

surely even in poor condition you will get more privately than a trade in. Basically as a trade your getting nothing.

Then buy a AU with windsor V8 or a BA with the 3V 5.4.... those things will tow a house.

Nope...

You need a proper chassis and mass torque to tow something efficiently and safely...that's why our 4.2 six cylinder TD 100 series Landcruiser had 3500kg towing capacity, and my sisters 1995 Land Rover Discovery TD5 had a 4000kg capacity...
I find it odd that you would think that a 4x4 "doesn't have any torque" and "couldn't pull themselves out of a ditch"...the torque figures of the 4.2 six cylinder turbo diesel in the Landcruiser we had was more than any V8 on the market in Oz from Ford or Holden, and the whole idea of turbo diesels is torque. It used to be they weren't fireballs...but now they all go pretty damn hard as a bonus.

Simple having a big engine does not a towing monster make...

[Mechan1k]

Exactly ... I have been overtaken up a hill by one of the new Toyota LC TD V8 ... and it was towing a BIG caravan behind it. Those things rocket along underload.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Exactly ... I have been overtaken up a hill by one of the new Toyota LC TD V8 ... and it was towing a BIG caravan behind it. Those things rocket along underload.

Those diesels are a LOT different to the ones from the 90s. With the budget of $14 grand I would almost go petrol in a 4wd.

[Pis-ton broke]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Nope...

"...the torque figures of the 4.2 six cylinder turbo diesel in the Landcruiser we had was more than any V8 on the market in Oz from Ford or Holden, and the whole idea of turbo diesels is torque. ...

and how was the bottom end in the '80 turbo disiel crusier, i heard they were a bit weak? I hear the disco tdi is a very fuel efficent 4x4.

Didn,t ford make an electric locker diff for the RTV? and then throw in some 3.45 or 3.73 gears to boot. RTV diffs are standard with 3.45 gears anyway.

[Bossxr8]

Don't buy an earlier Land Rover. Reliability is hiddeous.

You will never stop having to spend money on it if its a bad one. And a lot are bad.

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by LethalLeigh

The trick I have is the set of criteria the missus has in finding a car and it makes my head explode. Goes a little like this:

- Needs to tow around 1500kg though 2000kg is desirable
- Needs to have at least the same level of equipment and perception of interior quality as the BA (let's not turn this into an argument about BA interior finishes though)
- She really wants to reduce her fuel bill as well as it's an 80km round trip to see the horse up to 4 times a week plus the once a month or so towing to events.

At some point we will need to compromise, that I'm aware of but it's just trying to find something that ticks as many boxes as possible.

Sounds similar to my wifes scenario:
- needs to tow around 1500kg to 2000kg is desirable.
- needs to person daily driving duties of approximate 80km round trip to/from work.
- needs to be comfortable for ong distance driving.
- needs to be easy to park.
- needs ro be able to carry horse feed .. Very often.

previously we had a AUII XL V8 ute on LPG .. Great vehicle, but started to play up so traded for FG Egas XR6 ute. The XR6 is a great daily driver, carries stuff and can tow.
As for getting bogged, etc .. Common sense and well behaved horses that can be walked from a dry patch into a boggy area go a long way to keeping out of trouble.
You'll be hard pressed to go past an Aussie Falcon for towing duties in the price range you are looking at

[El Venom]

4x4 should offer better low down torque but could then lack mid to high end. A falcon you will have the mid to high end but you will lack traction when not on road. Our pajero cops a flogging going up hills trying to say at a decent speed when its not towing as it just seems to struggle with inclines, but in the bush and off road hills arent a problem because we dont have to worry about other road users so much.

You need to work out with 15 grand to play with what things the vehicle must do because your options are limited. If you have the money then I would say v8 turbo diesel 200series landcruiser with out a doubt but they are expensive. Now I dont know what the market is like car wise where you are but when we were look at cars in the 10-15 grand range that could tow a horse float, vehicles with a great rep were priced accordingly.

If your only other thing the car must do besides tow is deal with the paddock then go 4x4 but if economy and how it tows and just general running costs are something that you want a big rwd car is the way to go and now days its really isnt that hard to get a rwd to work off road and I personally dont think the added costs of 4x4 make it a better option

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Im asking the question that I dont know the answer for.

Sure the 4X4 has the traction advantage but do they have any torque? I have not driven one but do they barely pull themselves out of a ditch?

Yeah a modern turbo diesel 4x4 is good. Pitty you can't get the F150 there, but then it is a bit of a gas guzzler. I think the best value used tow vehicles in Australia are the GU Patrol, Discovery TD5, Grand Cherokee CRD

http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Automo...D4412101790813

Best new tow vehicle looks like its the Ranger XLT 3.2 I-5

[Nic85]

My neighbour tows a 2 tonne caravan often, going back and forth from QLD -> Adelaide. He used to do it with an AU Falcon on gas, but recently changed to an NL Pajero (manual V6 petrol) then had it converted to gas.

He seems to love it. He says it's not quite as good up hills as the AU was, but it's better on fuel (surprisingly), drives nicer and has that 4x4 capability too.

[Ben73]

Might be pushing the budget here but Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 hemi. 3500kg towing, over 500nm torque, 250kws, 4 cylinder shut down when cruising over 70km/h. Although that is probably wishful thinking while towing. Put it on gas and it will be pretty cheap to run.
Think it has trailer sway control. Don't know how effective it is.

[mash again]

early 200o prados can be had for that money, i used to tow a 1600kg van with an AU wagon, got the job done but with the prado you didnt even know it was there, same power but AWD and better on fuel while towing (not around town or on the highway if not towing)(we had 4.0l petrol prado). IMHO i think in reality the little xtrail would struggle with a double horse float, just cause its rated to tow 2500kg doesnt mean it will be happy or proficient at it. go to some caravan parks and talk to some people that have towed with various reasons, you will find a pattern and for good reason.