Government solution to petrol prices

[Casper]

Something people may want to read (re fuel prices):
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/c.../2000cib11.htm

Now based on this the governents (State and Federal) tax on fuel, about 60% goes to them. Thats approx 84c every litre. Now, given my current usage of fuel x3 (as I'm not a big fuel user) that equates to 300 litres a month x 12 months x 0.84 cents. $3024.

So the governemnts tax me a total of $3024 a year (actually, for me its about $1000 a year) in fuel prices. So shall we cut that all off and have 55c/l fuel? Fantastic.. I get to save $3000 ($1000 really) a year..whoopee. Oh, and tough luck to those that dont drive or drive very little.

So, heres a more logical idea. Lets ban the Greedy State govt charges (12% or 17c/l). Tha immediatly drops fuel from $1.40 to a more realistic $1.23. Then, lets add $3000 to the tax free threshhold for PAYE. That would assist all the low wage people, keep the treasury reasonably happy (and the country economically sound) and stop the scavenging state governments dead in their tracks as far as ripping off the population as a whole.

Sound fair?

[brenx]

Killing off 50% of the excise is what I'd like. My fuel bill last fortnight was almost $400. Thats $10,400 a year. I'd normally use around $150-$200 but due to fuel prices and work this has risen. On average I'd say we use around $300pf now.

A cut in the fuel excise will flow too all goods and services. Which in term makes the cost of living cheaper. When the excise was introduced their was minimal cars on the road and the gov't was after maximum return. Now there is millions more. I think a 50% reduction in excise is acceptable.

Problem there is the idiot government signed us up for world prices which is why they won't reduce the excise.

I'm looking at purchasing an E-Gas Falcon as I can't afford to be shoving almost $90 a tank into our Falcon. Minimum use on the Falcon is 1 tank pf but lately it's been at least two. For our 02 Mazda Astina it's almost $60 a tank and it's seeing 3 tanks a fortnight. Most of the use being going to work and doctors appointments. Mrs is on workcare for a permanent back injury. The more bs wer go through with doctors the more k's we do. She clocked 10,000k's in 3 maybe 4 months.

[Sprint_ED]

i agree i nearly fainted when i filled up 33 litres and costing me 50$ its crazy a year ago when i i got my new car i was paying 99cents for premiumso 33$ would gime me more that 33 litres,

[Casper]

Originally Posted by brenx

Killing off 50% of the excise is what I'd like. My fuel bill last fortnight was almost $400. Thats $10,400 a year. I'd normally use around $150-$200 but due to fuel prices and work this has risen. On average I'd say we use around $300pf now.

A cut in the fuel excise will flow too all goods and services. Which in term makes the cost of living cheaper. When the excise was introduced their was minimal cars on the road and the gov't was after maximum return. Now there is millions more. I think a 50% reduction in excise is acceptable.

Problem there is the idiot government signed us up for world prices which is why they won't reduce the excise.

I'm looking at purchasing an E-Gas Falcon as I can't afford to be shoving almost $90 a tank into our Falcon. Minimum use on the Falcon is 1 tank pf but lately it's been at least two. For our 02 Mazda Astina it's almost $60 a tank and it's seeing 3 tanks a fortnight. Most of the use being going to work and doctors appointments. Mrs is on workcare for a permanent back injury. The more bs wer go through with doctors the more k's we do. She clocked 10,000k's in 3 maybe 4 months.

Not a bad idea. Seems we are the only ones coming up with logical sorts of ideas at the moment. Its easy to say "cut the tax" but its much harder to think of a logical, easily administered and quick solution.

[Sprint_ED]

yeah and howards commemnt of im not attending a fuel summit, its worthless, what a tool

[Casper]

Lets keep the political party politics out and the idea's in.

[Falcon Coupe]

Howard says cuttting excise would be put a huge hole in the budget ? I thought the hole could be plugged by the huge windfall already made, the Herald Sun says today transport companys have a put a levy on goods to cover the travel costs, what this means is we are now paying a levy (tax) on gst (tax) and excise another tax, we are copping it 3 times over......i'll finish there as the swear words are trying to type themselves. :

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Casper

Lets keep the political party politics out and the idea's in.

Thats a little hard due to the thread title and the fact the government are the only ones that can help us.

[brenx]

Originally Posted by Casper

Not a bad idea. Seems we are the only ones coming up with logical sorts of ideas at the moment. Its easy to say "cut the tax" but its much harder to think of a logical, easily administered and quick solution.

One thing, I did study was economics. Unfortunately I can see through the bs when they talk it. I have a greater understanding of how it all works unfortunately. Knowing what's going on just annoys me more. If I'd continued my studies. I may have been a political type myself. I could have enjoyed myself yelling and screaming in parliment. I didn't continue with the studies as it bored me to death. I don't care if it pays well. I have to be able to stay awake during work. We've all seen politicians asleep as parliment ;)

[ltd]

It's like the age old adage that if you want to increase tax revenue, you must cut taxes. In all new democracies around the world the governments have reduced taxes and resultantly tripled their tax take. It's really simple. Give consumers back some of their tax and they will spend it. New businesses emerge to cope with increasing demands and foreign investment increases creating more jobs. All of these new enterprises then pay tax and voila; more tax revenue. An example of this is the ever burgeoning increases in taxes and levies in NSW, and the fact that it is the most expensive state to live in; and the fact it has the worst performing economy in Australia.

Unfortunately the governments both state and federal have become addicted to tax revenue and as they only have limited terms in office, they don't want to look at anything beyond a 2-3 year plan.

I read in the Fin review that NSW last financial year tax take was 41 billion and their wages bill for beuraucrats was 32-35 billion. That only leaves 6-9 billion to run the state. No wonder our water, trains, roads, police, hospitals etc are all in crisis.

Makes me sick when I think of how we are all being screwed so hard, and when you actually add up all of the taxes we pay it is around 60% plus for every dollar we earn.

I think we need tax reform in the way of getting rid of a tier of government.

"Australian Taxation Office - We've got what it takes to take what you've got".

[Casper]

Originally Posted by ltd

I think we need tax reform in the way of getting rid of a tier of government.

"Australian Taxation Office - We've got what it takes to take what you've got".

I've been saying it for ages. 20 million people do NOT need 3 levels of government and the logical place to remove is the state governments. God knows they dont do anything useful that couldnt be absorbed easily enough into Federal and local.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Howard says cuttting excise would be put a huge hole in the budget ? I thought the hole could be plugged by the huge windfall already made, the Herald Sun says today transport companys have a put a levy on goods to cover the travel costs, what this means is we are now paying a levy (tax) on gst (tax) and excise another tax, we are copping it 3 times over......i'll finish there as the swear words are trying to type themselves. :

I'm sorry but I believe I should instruct you and everyone else on the stance of the Australian Taxpayer. It's really simple, follow the steps.

1/ Go out the front door and stand on the nature strip.
2/ Remove your pants
3/ Grab your ankles and patiently wait for the government to do its bidding.

If you followed these 3 simple steps then congratulations; You are now an Australian Taxpayer. :

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Casper

I've been saying it for ages. 20 million people do NOT need 3 levels of government and the logical place to remove is the state governments. God knows they dont do anything useful that couldnt be absorbed easily enough into Federal and local.

And once over thrown all victorian cars will run for 3 months tax free of the oil from Steve Bracks hair....

[ltd]

At least you know he's a politician who's genuinely worried when the price of a barrel of crude oil goes up.

Every one thinks that Australia has a crude oil reserve of over a million barrels, It's just Bracks' secret stash for his hairdo for the next five years.

[Sprint_ED]

i have the solution every 1 on this forsum chip in for barrels of crude, and well make our own fuel, hell if a couple of people in a wasteland can produce fuel to power a s/c XC interceptor, itll do us fine

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Black XR6

Charge us more for the cars that use more fuel!

Sounds like the same 'high income' earners, earn more money pay more tax deal. ing_sm

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by tx3dude

zactly
ps RATT....carn the dragons!!

pps tx3dude, carn wests.

ppps ratt.. :

Jees, no thumbs up. :/

[T2TL50]

Australia's refineries presently supply around 95 per cent of petroleum product required by the Australian retail market. The remaining five per cent is imported and purchased largely by the growing number of independent retailers. The independents have introduced a new level of competition into the petrol and diesel retailing markets and use the ready availability of imported product as a bargaining tool to secure bulk supplies from the Australian refiners. An oversupply of petroleum product has developed in the Asia Pacific region as a result of the downturn in the Asian economies coupled with either capacity expansions or new refineries being brought on stream in a number of Asian countries.

So why do we have to follow suite with the rest of the world?? wh are we taxed so much for fuel we dont use??

[CruizinEB]

Charge us more for the cars that use more fuel!

Thats a bloudy good idea

[elusiverunner]

Let's face it guys the only two bodies that are making money out of increase prices is the petrol companies and the government. It annoys me no odds to end to see our prime minister sit straight faced on the TV and says there is nothing he can do :thebirds: He has probably not lifted a pump to fill a petrol tank in so long - why would he he gets his petrol for free. It seems the government can't afford to give the people who voted them in a break - yet we can afford to send the US $10,000,000 to help out after the bad weather and increase the annual amount we pay for world aide from $2 billion to $4 billion.
Petrol company CEOs don't pay full price for fuel. It seems the public support the hip pocket of these people. :

[CruizinEB]

bloudy well said

[chevypower]

what would we do if 4wds get taxed off the roads? Make cars bigger and heavier to do the towing jobs like they used to? make them weigh 2.5 tonnes and have 7 litre engines.

Facts: Nissan Patrol diesel -10l per 100km
Discovery diesel 10l per 100km
Prado Petrol 13 l per 100km
Wrangler, Hilux, Navara 4x4 petrols around 13l per 100km
Discovery V8, Jeep V8 use 15-17L per 100km

LandCruiser V8 17 l per 100, Landcruiser 4.2 diesel 11-12l per 100km

Corolla 8-9 per 100km, Falcon 6 cyl 11-13l per 100km, Falcon/Commodore V8s 13-16l per 100km


Whats the point here? you cant generally say 4wds that go off road, tow 3.5 tonnes, and move 7 or 8 people are that bad, compared to cars. People who use more fuel, pay more tax because of it already.

4wd bashers annoy me, the herald sun had some of them in there the other day, "tax them out of the city because they use too much fuel and are dangerous" read the facts above, also every 4wd i ever driven had better brakes than a lot of cars, AND the only negative thing about them, is higher centre of gravity, still the chances of them rolling are slim to none, ESPECIALLY in the city! When was the last time you saw a rolled over Landcruiser on Burke St? COME ON!!!

Peter Brock or someone else car-minded should be running for election one of these days shouldn't he?
Come on, California got Arnie!

[4.9 EF Futura]

Seems like you all want your cake... and want to eat it too?

For the last 2 months, the population has been sitting around telling the government to do something about fuel prices. A few of them come up with a proposal - and you shout them down.

Why? Because each and every one of us (with exception of focus/fiesta/ka drivers) haul gas guzzling monsters around. Lol, WE are the problem and I think we'd make ideal cantidates to target in an effort to lower demand. 4x4s, large sedans and perfomance vehicles.

Chevy, i assume the above posted 'facts' are consumption figures quoted by the manufacturer? The VZ monaro is claimed to "average" 13.7L/100km.... Most of the reviews of these cars say averages closer to 17L/100km and I can tell you a ford 5.0L with a small blower on it will give you 20L/100km puttering around at 60km/hr. I got no beef with 4x4 in the city but to pretend they dont guzzle is laughable.

So if I could summarise the thread thus far...

We want the government to do something about petrol prices but we'll be damned if we're going to be penalised for driving large, fuel guzzling cars?

[brenx]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

snip
So if I could summarise the thread thus far...

We want the government to do something about petrol prices but we'll be damned if we're going to be penalised for driving large, fuel guzzling cars?

No, were are damned if we are going to allow them to put another tax onto a system that is aleady 1000% over taxed. Do you have any understanding on how the economy works?

By taxing for example a larger vehicle your taxing low income families. That's why governments want to do it. Low income family have 2 or more children requiring a large car. Always read between the lines ;) The problem can be fixed by a simple excise revision. The excise hasn't been revised in a very long time. As I stated earlier I studied economics and unfortunately have a greater understanding than most.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by brenx

No, were are damned if we are going to allow them to put another tax onto a system that is aleady 1000% over taxed. Do you have any understanding on how the economy works?

By taxing for example a larger vehicle your taxing low income families. That's why governments want to do it. Low income family have 2 or more children requiring a large car. Always read between the lines ;) The problem can be fixed by a simple excise revision. The excise hasn't been revised in a very long time. As I stated earlier I studied economics and unfortunately have a greater understanding than most.

I studied economics at university and i appreciate the arguments that have been put forward. So yes, I guess you could say I have a rough understanding of how the economy works. Look, at the end of the day, petrol will always be a target for high tax due to the low elasticity of its demand. Always has been, always will be.

Frankly, I think we are lucky the excise has been left untouched. When petrol was $1.00/L - the excise was 38c. Thank your lucky stars its not indexed. Of course, you would be aware that the % of our pump price represented by tax is significantly lower than almost every country in the EU?

A family with 2 children doesnt "need" a commodore - a Vectra or even an Astra is perfectly comfortable for 2 adults + 2 children. And I completely disagree with the comment regarding low income families. I dont see how number of children is an accurate predictor of family income - rich people dont have families??. Without being rude, such a comment smacks of left-winged politics as opposed to impartial economics.

Id also like to note a point you made in previous post regarding parity pricing. You would obviously be aware that it was Mr Howard's idea to introduce it (Fraser led coalition in the late 70's i believe??). You would also be aware that on 1 January 1988, the Hawke government deregulated the domestic crude oil supply. Therefore, despite all the bad press surrounding parity pricing of oil, it was in fact abandoned over 17 years ago. The price our refineries pay for oil is reflective of the world price. As you would be aware, if local refineries dont pay the market rate - the domestic oil producers will simply sell it offshore. Therefore, we are not bound by parity pricing - but are subjected to it - or else we simply dont get the oil.

You would also be aware we are not 100% self sufficient in the production of refined petroleum. Therefore, we are again subjected to global prices for the refined products as we are forced to import a percentage of it.

Simply removing the excise is a knee-jerk reaction to a shift in the equilibrium price of a product.

Dont get me wrong - i'd like cheaper fuel as well, a supercharged falcon is thirsty at the best of times. What i dont agree with is a short term fix for a long term problem. So, we drop the excise off a bit. Oil rises to $90 a barrel, fuel goes back to $1.30/L. We drop the excise again. Oil rises over $100 a barrel - we drop the excise again???

Its time we realised the true value of this fuel. Theres not much of the stuff left.

[gtfpv]

guys i will say this we get free fuel that is why we have a gt . my work car is on lpg . so i wouldn't be bothered about fuel increases right . ( wrong) our groceries have gone up about 40 bucks per week in the past year . lpg will probably follow . less imports into australia means less revenue for my company ( employer) which means job threats or at the very least no overtime. end results are costs costs costs and more costs. ultimately leading to high inflation that no body can do anything about because everyone is on an E.B.A. WHICH DICTATES THIER FORCASTED WAGES. OR casual with no rights.which is exactly what politics wants. more revenue good for the economy bad for the people . more competitive due to wage restrictions as nobody gets pay increases due to inflation any more so the solution becomes give up some more and we will give you more hours of work if you dont like it somebody else will do it and by the way we cant afford to pay penalty rates anymore they don't pay these in china .

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Howard says cuttting excise would be put a huge hole in the budget ? I thought the hole could be plugged by the huge windfall already made, the Herald Sun says today transport companys have a put a levy on goods to cover the travel costs, what this means is we are now paying a levy (tax) on gst (tax) and excise another tax, we are copping it 3 times over......i'll finish there as the swear words are trying to type themselves. :

There is no windfall. Federal excise remains fixed at 38c/L. Howard doesnt get a cent more than he did before. Probably less, as people start buying less fuel.

GST windfall goes to the state governments.

[brenx]

I'm well aware of what we're being taxed and what supposedly for. They aren't exactly honest I can assure you off that. Not all of the $ goes where legistlation states it was supposed to go. Governments are good at re-routing funds.

It's good in theory but the gov'ts are cutting off their nose spite their face. Fuel rises, tax larger cars, people stop driving cars, gov't revenue drops. The last thing the gov't wants is the cash cow to stop mooing.

Time for work cya ;)

[Black XR6]

If the main factor of the price of fuel is the cost of crude. Why is there such a drastic difference between what we pay, what americans pay and what european nations pay for fuel per litre? If world oil prices dicated the cost domestically surely we should all have similar priced fuel per litre.

Same goes for price increases due to the fossil fuel running out. Shouldnt that also push worl prices up in general. So the countries that use the most should be charged more to reduce their consumption and extend the availability of fossil fuel

Interestingly. I watched something recently on BMW. A BMW exec was saying Hydrogen is the fuel of the future but not fuel cell hydrogen, internal combustion engines will remain he says. And he also said they will have a hydrogen fueled car (prototype maybe) on the road within ten years or so. But he definately said hydrogen was the path BMW were taking for the future fuel.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by Black XR6

If the main factor of the price of fuel is the cost of crude. Why is there such a drastic difference between what we pay, what americans pay and what european nations pay for fuel per litre? If world oil prices dicated the cost domestically surely we should all have similar priced fuel per litre.

Americans pay very little tax on their fuel. Very interesting graph altho im not sure it's what the "let's cut the tax" proponents will want to see:



This demonstrates quite effectively, that the "non-tax" component of fuel is similar in most OECD countries - I think this answers your query?

You will also note that we pay considerably less tax on our fuel than, well, everyone except USA, Mexico and Canada....