FG FPV GT Rspec vs VF HSV GTS by MOTOR Mag

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Also tested at the Broadford track (same edition of Motor Mag) -

1:11.9 Peugeot 208 GTI
1:10.1 Fiesta ST
1:09.7 VW Golf GTI
1:09.5 Volvo S60 Polestar
1:08.8 FPV GT R Spec
1:06.3 Merc A45 AMG
1:05.8 BMW M6 GC
1:05.5 HSV GTS
1:05.1 Jaguar F-Type V8 S
1:05.0 Porsche Cayman S
1:04.0 Audi R8 V10 Plus

Wow that's fast.....the GTS has twice the gap the rspec has on a fiesta

Did the article make any excuses for the rspec.....like its cheaper price tag and old model vs new?

There was track records broken at another track not long ago.....forget where. But the record WAS the F6. And it certainly wasn't more then 3 secs for the new time!

[strik9]

gt is very outdated now, god bless her.
but it would have had similar headlines when it was realised with the sc .shame we will never see a fair comparison of a 100k gt vs 100k hsv.

you have to be realistic when comparing these sorts of cars. i rekon anything there comparing needs to be in same price bracket. like when they compared the new gts to a 230k merc. pretty bloody pointless.

[graham_h]

6.2 litre Supercharged LSA engine

v's

335kW 5.0Lt supercharged

and their point it is ?

[XBGTFGGTP]

I'm surprised it has taken motor so long to have a heads up test with a R-Spec Considering its the GTS main rival. Looking at the 0-100 time of the GTS it still slower than previous R-Spec, maybe they needed to find something that the GTS had a huge margin over the R-Spec to justify all the claims and hype Hold on have spun. Just a thought.

[FGX-351]

Could care less about what they have to say, it's over now anyway.
No point in trying to influence a market that's about to disappear.

I can say 100% their typical review won't make me value my GT R-spec limited edition button up any less and I can damn sure say they won't pursuade me from wanting one for myself in Vixen any less either!

Nothing to do with the article but i'm just going to come right out & say it, F! Wheels/Motor.

Their "tribal wars" belong in 2001 and they can take their 1980s "ocker" language with them as well!

Drive them to enjoy them boys & girls.

[Rodge]

Any way you slice and dice it that was a really serious mauling on a very short track. I would imagine around the faster and longer Phillip Island track the extra torque of the GTS and its ability to deploy it would make for an even greater disparity between the two.

The GTS deserves full credit as the greatest Australian made performance car ever and beating the exceptionally well regarded BMW M6, (keeping in mind that car has a super low centre of gravity and is shod with wide Michelin Pilot supersport rubber), gives the GTS huge credibility in my opinion.

HSV's marketing catch-phrase, "I just want one" finally seems to be credible.

[rancidpunx]

No surprising really although it is a shame to see an article written up with only one thing in mind. That is to bash FPV and Ford with and scream about Holden. Nothing new and the GTS is a good car and on the track is where it shines. On the street there is barely anything in them.
The GTS can get into corners faster with the huge brakes and then can get round and out on the power quicker with Torque vectoring and its grippy tyres. Its not until 160kph+ the extra power the GTS has becomes apparent. At QR my mate reckons he is 4+secs faster than he was in his F6.
Reality is HSV have a bigger budget and less restrains from Holden. Ford have always reined in FPV and we just didnt buy enough of them to give them the money required for more than just a belting engine. We have a great car in our GT's and in a straight line from the lights we have nothing to be scared of, they just do not have the credentials to match the GTS for anything more. If you can afford the extra money to get one, and dont mind the interior being a bit tacky and an after thought spare tyre they are genuinely a good car. When I drive one I get the over whelming feeling that "Yes, this has been built correctly with a purpose". The GT is all about passion and those magic GT letters. Its not built to be this type of car, it was modified to be fast, the GTS is built to be a race car.
Anyone thinking of buying the Last GT at $80k+, your mad when you can get a GTS for a hypothetical $10k more.

[HULK_I6T]

Would the f6 r spec have performed better?

I dont think its a fair comparison. The GT was always a falcon xt with a big stonking motor.

Hsv always been the more capable track car. The evo lancerbwouldbprobably give the gt a mauling too.

id still buy the GT as im sure over the quarter mile it keeps the gts honest. Thats whats important to a muscle car buyer.

who cares if the gts gets through the maccas drive through quicker.

[PepeLePew]

It's unfortunate that the red side will go down as having the greatest Aussie performance car, but stepping back you have to be a little proud it's Aussie with a touch of world beater don't you

As for the earlier thread a lot of the cynicism is forgive able. Holden's marketing machine has been guilty of many a past crime that when they get it right it's hard to see the forest for the trees.

Actually I'm surprised given the previous efforts of that marketing machine that it doesn't get its butt handed to it by the all conquering VF SS Redline ute (yes that was a tongue in cheek comment).

Bathurst participation aside, HO was a standout in its day, can't say the GTS doesn't fit in a similar corner. It's one out of the box and for what it can do maybe it IS a similar bargain.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

No surprising really although it is a shame to see an article written up with only one thing in mind. That is to bash FPV and Ford with and scream about Holden. Nothing new and the GTS is a good car and on the track is where it shines. On the street there is barely anything in them.
The GTS can get into corners faster with the huge brakes and then can get round and out on the power quicker with Torque vectoring and its grippy tyres. Its not until 160kph+ the extra power the GTS has becomes apparent. At QR my mate reckons he is 4+secs faster than he was in his F6.
Reality is HSV have a bigger budget and less restrains from Holden. Ford have always reined in FPV and we just didnt buy enough of them to give them the money required for more than just a belting engine.

Anyone thinking of buying the Last GT at $80k+, your mad when you can get a GTS for a hypothetical $10k more.

Well said. I'm philosophical, FPV have been the top dog Aussie performance car for years, firstly with the F6 since way back in 2005 and more lately for three years with the SC 335. Its a real shame Ford and Prodrive didn't colaborate to develop the SC 335 to its full potential though.

I guess when its all said and done and we look back on these two marques in the future we'll reflect on the cold hard sales facts that at the end of the day for reasons best known to others, HSV's have always outsold FPV's by at least two to one so that's given HSV the confidence to invest more.
Quite why the sales figures have spoken so loudly for themselves over so many years will probably always be a mystery to me.

Those who think the last FPV's will make a good long term "investment" if ever a car is truly an investment, (something that I think is hugely debateable, past history with GTHO's is absolutly not a guarantee of future resale possibilities), might like to consider if they're backing the right horse.

Would the f6 r spec have performed better?

I'd say worse. Very difficult to accuratly modulate the power in the corners with the F6's all or nothing power delivery.

[Peter Tee]

some comments about marketing , in this thread, HSV, has marketed their product, Better, even when it was inferior, than Tickford, Ford FPV , what ever title was current, ?
the waiting time for a VF GTS is now over 6 months, !

[b0son]

Originally Posted by graham_h

335kW 5.0Lt supercharged

You must be the only person who believes that number...

[strik9]

you can drive away today on carsales in one. hardly call it a 6 mth wait. i may even have to go buy one if rodge starts working for hsv. hes doing a good sell.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by strik9

you can drive away today on carsales in one. hardly call it a 6 mth wait. i may even have to go buy one if rodge starts working for hsv. hes doing a good sell.

^^ They drink like a greedy fish and have very ordinary quality control on build quality, feeling better now ?

[Peter Tee]

Originally Posted by strik9

you can drive away today on carsales in one. hardly call it a 6 mth wait. i may even have to go buy one if rodge starts working for hsv. hes doing a good sell.

I was talking new from an HSV dealer with no kilometers first owner,?
there are always cars for sale, remember the 302kw Cobra's people had them for sale before they had taken delivery of them too, ?

[XtRmn8]

Lot more to a car then just an engine. The GTS is a bigger heavier car with not much of a power advantage, but track times speak for themselves.

They should have thrown in a 340kw R8 into the comparison, I would not be surprised if that matched the R-Spec time.

[jimmyxr6t04]

FPV should be proud. As i said earlier, it has taken HSV 3 years and a very serious engine to come out on top of the FPV. With the torque vectoring and some serious brake and suspension work, the HSV is a track going road car. The GT is still a road car.

It's a real shame that FPV won't be able to produce an equivelant GT, with their own race like suspension, brakes, torque vectoring, wider wheels, sticky rubber, and an intercooled Boss. With those additions, and a tickled tune i'm tipping that the 6.2L HSV would be no where near 3 seconds faster.

The GT is awesome for what it is, and that's a road car with some serious mumbo. The GTS is is more like a track car that can be used on the road!

How good it is for us to be spoilt for such good choice in our last Aussie made cars.

[BHDOGS]

Lmao I always love it when the rules change to suit Holden it's about power no its about handling no its about looks no its about whateva holdens better at at the time this is why I'm glad Holden's leaving this biased mag pieces are another testament to why I ******* hate Holden

[fgpsi]

Still waiting for the GT 335 vs E3 GTS comparison.

[Peter Tee]

From what I read somewhere the other day, with the doors closed on FPV, does that leave us with whatever they come up with for the GT, and an "XR8" of some sort as the final V8 models from the Factory, ??

[XBGTFGGTP]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Same I was expecting may 1-2 seconds tops but over 3 seconds on small track is pretty damn impressive

Imagine how the Dunflops would be after one lap on a tight short track driving fast, absolutely useless. Also if the GT was only a 4 pot frt car, it would be like a standard XR6 compared to the GTS in braking.

[XBGTFGGTP]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

No surprising really although it is a shame to see an article written up with only one thing in mind. That is to bash FPV and Ford with and scream about Holden. Nothing new and the GTS is a good car and on the track is where it shines. On the street there is barely anything in them.
The GTS can get into corners faster with the huge brakes and then can get round and out on the power quicker with Torque vectoring and its grippy tyres. Its not until 160kph+ the extra power the GTS has becomes apparent. At QR my mate reckons he is 4+secs faster than he was in his F6.
Reality is HSV have a bigger budget and less restrains from Holden. Ford have always reined in FPV and we just didnt buy enough of them to give them the money required for more than just a belting engine. We have a great car in our GT's and in a straight line from the lights we have nothing to be scared of, they just do not have the credentials to match the GTS for anything more. If you can afford the extra money to get one, and dont mind the interior being a bit tacky and an after thought spare tyre they are genuinely a good car. When I drive one I get the over whelming feeling that "Yes, this has been built correctly with a purpose". The GT is all about passion and those magic GT letters. Its not built to be this type of car, it was modified to be fast, the GTS is built to be a race car.
Anyone thinking of buying the Last GT at $80k+, your mad when you can get a GTS for a hypothetical $10k more.

Had he done anything to the F6 brakes? I had mine at Pukekohe and could only do 3 hard Laps before the brakes called it a day and engine oil temp got hot. Wrung the neck out of it and got 230 down the back straight before hard on the brakes, but through the turns she was rocking and rolling and you definitely had to hold on to her. When I finished I looked at her and thought I could quite easily knock another 2-3 secs a lap with decent rubber and better brakes.

[HULK_I6T]

Its more sad that as both sides get ready to retire the hsv gets the last punch in.

but it costs more than $20k more so not sure if buyers would really compare them. Fpv might catch the buyers looking at the regular clubsport r8.

[Yellow_Festiva]

With the 20k price difference, could an Rspec series 2 be done? Add 10k to the price and get a better tune, brake and handling tweaks to close the gap or match the HSV?

For what they are, both are awesome machines.

[XR Martin]

HSVs have always been better on the track, mostly due to their tyres
GTS runs some super sticky Continental tyres, compared to the GTs made-in-china Dunlops...

[dl86]

Originally Posted by XBGTFGGTP

Imagine how the Dunflops would be after one lap on a tight short track driving fast, absolutely useless. Also if the GT was only a 4 pot frt car, it would be like a standard XR6 compared to the GTS in braking.

There's probably a good 3-4 seconds in tires alone. Just switching to Bridgestone RE11 made a huge difference then later I got Shockworks and it is a completely different animal than when I first drove it.

Surely with some better pads and brake fluid the stock brakes would hold up better? Hoping I don't cook my stock brake set up on my first track day coming up

[XR Martin]

Oh the GTS runs Continental Contisport 5P, which is the same tyres they run on the AMG E63S
And they are up near a $1000 a tyre...

[tweeked]

I hope all the old timers who didnt want a HO are happy, last chance and Ford rolled over with the rest of you. Holden won, game over, there will never be another chance, they built the greatest Aussie car ever, and Ford didn't even try.

Bathurst...blah blah...racing pedigree....blah blah.....I just want to be able to buy a factory developed car that gets form a to b quickly. The GTS man will be on his second latte when I finish in an RSpec. Unsless the road is straight and has no corners.

Really disappointed with Ford/FPV

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Oh the GTS runs Continental Contisport 5P, which is the same tyres they run on the AMG E63S
And they are up near a $1000 a tyre...

Where are you getting $1000 a tyre from? They are about $400 a tyre from tirerack.com

[Grippy]

Got to love the way HSV have poured everything into their last hero car, big power, huge brakes and obviously great handling judging by that lap time, what a package. I'd love a GT, but if I did buy one suspension and tyre upgrades are just about a must have.