Barn find! 1971 Ford Falcon GTHO Phase III to fetch in excess of $300,000

[Crazy Dazz]

So what exactly is so special about this shell?
Whatever it was, its been bastardised, then raped and pillaged.

It might be a solid body, a good basis for an XY project, but that doesn't make it worth $300k.
If the post above is to be believed then it's had the tags removed, which makes the car unregisterable.

If, based on the shock tower, you can confirm that it was originally a HO, so what. It's not one now.
If you buy that car, and then acquire all the parts to rebuild it as a HO.
And I take a nondescript XY and add exactly the same parts and work, then what's the difference.

Don't get we wrong, I understand the rarity and iconic nature of a genuine HO. My point is that it isn't any more. Some idiot destroyed it.

[Express]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

If the post above is to be believed then it's had the tags removed, which makes the car unregisterable.

I don't know how it works in Perth but I had the tags stolen from my Torana here in NSW and the car was still able to be registered as they only needed the Chassis Number and the engine number was also recorded.

Maybe because it was just a Torana they didn't care





.

[Dr Terry]

You only need a chassis number & an engine number to register a car in NSW. Tags are irrelevant to the RMS.

Dr Terry

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

So what exactly is so special about this shell?
Whatever it was, its been bastardised, then raped and pillaged.

It might be a solid body, a good basis for an XY project, but that doesn't make it worth $300k.
If the post above is to be believed then it's had the tags removed, which makes the car unregisterable.

If, based on the shock tower, you can confirm that it was originally a HO, so what. It's not one now.
If you buy that car, and then acquire all the parts to rebuild it as a HO.
And I take a nondescript XY and add exactly the same parts and work, then what's the difference.

Don't get we wrong, I understand the rarity and iconic nature of a genuine HO. My point is that it isn't any more. Some idiot destroyed it.

Of course it's still a P3HO - it just doesn't have its motor anymore.

If you build up an XY GT P3 from a non-P3 body, then it's a replica P3.

Simples.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

So what exactly is so special about this shell?
Whatever it was, its been bastardised, then raped and pillaged.

It might be a solid body, a good basis for an XY project, but that doesn't make it worth $300k.
If the post above is to be believed then it's had the tags removed, which makes the car unregisterable.

If, based on the shock tower, you can confirm that it was originally a HO, so what. It's not one now.
If you buy that car, and then acquire all the parts to rebuild it as a HO.
And I take a nondescript XY and add exactly the same parts and work, then what's the difference.

Don't get we wrong, I understand the rarity and iconic nature of a genuine HO. My point is that it isn't any more. Some idiot destroyed it.

It does state the the tags were bought back,so I presume they are with the car.Technically the tags can’t be removed,but it may take someone with superhuman eye sight to see that they had been pop rivetted back on.Most makes use only standard pop rivets.The harder ones are the early Holdens which used rivet type things which would be much harder to copy

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

If the post above is to be believed then it's had the tags removed, which makes the car unregistrable.

The tags are right there in the photos.....

[wodahs]

another xy barn find , wonder what itll get
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...3394475035548/

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Of course it's still a P3HO - it just doesn't have its motor anymore.

Firstly, on what basis can anyone assert that its a HO? Is this some universal law of the cosmos? If Ford built 300 P3's, does that mean that there will always be 300? And even if so, how is ownership of such a right determined?

The car in question has been bastardised in every way imaginable. It doesn't have the original engine, gearbox, most of the peripheral mechanicals, and the guards have been butchered
If we disposed of the doors, bonnet, boot, and fenders, would it still be a HO?

Ok, what about if we also completely stripped the interior, down to a bare shell. Still a HO?

Ok, so what if it had been rolled, and we had to cut the roof off?

Now its been sitting in a paddock for 20 years, the boot, quarters, floor-pan, and firewall are all rusted away. Is it still a HO?

Please tell me, precisely which piece is it that makes it a HO?

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Firstly, on what basis can anyone assert that its a HO? Is this some universal law of the cosmos? If Ford built 300 P3's, does that mean that there will always be 300? And even if so, how is ownership of such a right determined?

The car in question has been bastardised in every way imaginable. It doesn't have the original engine, gearbox, most of the peripheral mechanicals, and the guards have been butchered
If we disposed of the doors, bonnet, boot, and fenders, would it still be a HO?

Ok, what about if we also completely stripped the interior, down to a bare shell. Still a HO?

Ok, so what if it had been rolled, and we had to cut the roof off?

Now its been sitting in a paddock for 20 years, the boot, quarters, floor-pan, and firewall are all rusted away. Is it still a HO?

Please tell me, precisely which piece is it that makes it a HO?

So the surviving GTHO racecars arnt genuine cars either?

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Firstly, on what basis can anyone assert that its a HO? Is this some universal law of the cosmos? If Ford built 300 P3's, does that mean that there will always be 300? And even if so, how is ownership of such a right determined?

The car in question has been bastardised in every way imaginable. It doesn't have the original engine, gearbox, most of the peripheral mechanicals, and the guards have been butchered
If we disposed of the doors, bonnet, boot, and fenders, would it still be a HO?

Ok, what about if we also completely stripped the interior, down to a bare shell. Still a HO?

Ok, so what if it had been rolled, and we had to cut the roof off?

Now its been sitting in a paddock for 20 years, the boot, quarters, floor-pan, and firewall are all rusted away. Is it still a HO?

Please tell me, precisely which piece is it that makes it a HO?

I'm not sure if you're being silly or not

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Firstly, on what basis can anyone assert that its a HO? Is this some universal law of the cosmos? If Ford built 300 P3's, does that mean that there will always be 300? And even if so, how is ownership of such a right determined?

It's a P3. The tags and VIN say so. It's also a one-owner car, so no dispute on shady periods of its life. How many were built... I don't see the relevance of that.

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The car in question has been bastardised in every way imaginable. It doesn't have the original engine, gearbox, most of the peripheral mechanicals, and the guards have been butchered
If we disposed of the doors, bonnet, boot, and fenders, would it still be a HO?

Yes, of course. It's the shell that determines the car's identity.

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Ok, what about if we also completely stripped the interior, down to a bare shell. Still a HO?

See above.

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Ok, so what if it had been rolled, and we had to cut the roof off?

Then it's a P3 that has had its roof replaced (or turned into a cool convertible). Anyway, see above.

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Now its been sitting in a paddock for 20 years, the boot, quarters, floor-pan, and firewall are all rusted away. Is it still a HO?

A very rusty one, but see above.

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Please tell me, precisely which piece is it that makes it a HO?

The shell always determines a car's identity. That can't be changed.

If I gutted my XB GT to a shell and sat it on bricks in a paddock it would still be an XB GT wouldn't it? No difference to the P3 here.

If you're confused about rebodies, rebirthing, replicas, etc. there's a good post here that will assist.

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11310086

[Citroënbender]

There was an English court case about “No.1 Bentley” which traverses some of this (what pedigree is considered to apply to what car) from the perspective of a country with laws not too different from our own.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Firstly, on what basis can anyone assert that its a HO? Is this some universal law of the cosmos? If Ford built 300 P3's, does that mean that there will always be 300? And even if so, how is ownership of such a right determined?

The car in question has been bastardised in every way imaginable. It doesn't have the original engine, gearbox, most of the peripheral mechanicals, and the guards have been butchered
If we disposed of the doors, bonnet, boot, and fenders, would it still be a HO?

Ok, what about if we also completely stripped the interior, down to a bare shell. Still a HO?

Ok, so what if it had been rolled, and we had to cut the roof off?

Now its been sitting in a paddock for 20 years, the boot, quarters, floor-pan, and firewall are all rusted away. Is it still a HO?

Please tell me, precisely which piece is it that makes it a HO?

If you need answers to all of those questions yourself then clearly it's best that people like you stay well away from classics that are getting thin on the ground already.

You either understand its meaning or not and clearly here, you don't understand.

[whitelion65]

Originally Posted by wodahs

another xy barn find , wonder what itll get
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...3394475035548/

That's an ecosystem, not a car!!!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Firstly, on what basis can anyone assert that its a HO? Is this some universal law of the cosmos? If Ford built 300 P3's, does that mean that there will always be 300? And even if so, how is ownership of such a right determined?

The car in question has been bastardised in every way imaginable. It doesn't have the original engine, gearbox, most of the peripheral mechanicals, and the guards have been butchered
If we disposed of the doors, bonnet, boot, and fenders, would it still be a HO?

Ok, what about if we also completely stripped the interior, down to a bare shell. Still a HO?

Ok, so what if it had been rolled, and we had to cut the roof off?

Now its been sitting in a paddock for 20 years, the boot, quarters, floor-pan, and firewall are all rusted away. Is it still a HO?

Please tell me, precisely which piece is it that makes it a HO?

Maybe you should offer him 20k for it?

It's the shell, with the tags that make it a HO. Doesn't matter how much the rest is modified, it's still a HO.

[fordomatic]

It blows my mind that someone would pay 300k for a rolling shell that would never be considered in my eyes, "an original survivor". Really I'm just jealous though.

[wackyv8]

"1971 Ford Falcon GTHO XY Phase 3
Closes: 7h 16m

$280,309
The reserve price has not been reached "

https://www.graysonline.com/lot/0001...ase-3?spr=true

[GT450]

It's the shell of what was once an HO, it has a long way to go and many$$$ before it's an HO again.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Please tell me, precisely which piece is it that makes it a HO?

So I see that despite all the infantile condescension, nobody can actually answer this.

My point is simply this:
If two mates buy basically identical shells.
And each spends roughly the same money rebuilding them to identical "HO Standard"
If one mate has his for sale for say $60k, you'd be nuts to pay the other mate $600k for his, simply because of a VIN.

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

So I see that despite all the infantile condescension, nobody can actually answer this.

My point is simply this:
If two mates buy basically identical shells.
And each spends roughly the same money rebuilding them to identical "HO Standard"
If one mate has his for sale for say $60k, you'd be nuts to pay the other mate $600k for his, simply because of a VIN.

But yet someone would pay the 600k, simple as that

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

So I see that despite all the infantile condescension, nobody can actually answer this.

My point is simply this:
If two mates buy basically identical shells.
And each spends roughly the same money rebuilding them to identical "HO Standard"
If one mate has his for sale for say $60k, you'd be nuts to pay the other mate $600k for his, simply because of a VIN.

I thought I laid it out fairly clearly?

Anyway... not likely a choice that either of us is ever going to have to make eh?

[Bushbasher]

Why has nobody mentioned the unique to HO body mods, THAT'S what makes it a HO regardless of how many panels are left on it. HO's had different hangars and various brackets and braces that the standard shell did not. I'm sure one of the HO aficionados can tell us exactly what is different but I know there are differences that identify a HO shell as genuine besides the VIN tags.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

So I see that despite all the infantile condescension, nobody can actually answer this.

My point is simply this:
If two mates buy basically identical shells.
And each spends roughly the same money rebuilding them to identical "HO Standard"
If one mate has his for sale for say $60k, you'd be nuts to pay the other mate $600k for his, simply because of a VIN.

You could say the same about a Rembrandt or Picasso.
Why spend $25 million on something when you can get an exact copy for $20.
It only makes sense to someone who can afford it.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

Why has nobody mentioned the unique to HO body mods, THAT'S what makes it a HO regardless of how many panels are left on it. HO's had different hangars and various brackets and braces that the standard shell did not. I'm sure one of the HO aficionados can tell us exactly what is different but I know there are differences that identify a HO shell as genuine besides the VIN tags.

Thats right, thats why as far as i'm concerned a HO will always remain a HO no matter how many bits and pieces are missing......

While i agree with the possible $300k + price i am a bit surprised it didn't reach the reserve with a bid of $350,709, maybe the 'sons' got a little bit to ambitious?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

My point is simply this:
If two mates buy basically identical shells.
And each spends roughly the same money rebuilding them to identical "HO Standard"
If one mate has his for sale for say $60k, you'd be nuts to pay the other mate $600k for his, simply because of a VIN.

Seems like you're a Car driver not a Car enthusiast.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

So I see that despite all the infantile condescension, nobody can actually answer this.

My point is simply this:
If two mates buy basically identical shells.
And each spends roughly the same money rebuilding them to identical "HO Standard"
If one mate has his for sale for say $60k, you'd be nuts to pay the other mate $600k for his, simply because of a VIN.

It's been explained. Are you dense, or just ignorant?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Reserve not met?!?! I would have thought $350k would have been pretty good for what it is?

Wonder what the reserve was? They must have been close??

[zoesgift]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Reserve not met?!?! I would have thought $350k would have been pretty good for what it is?

Wonder what the reserve was? They must have been close??

you are assuming that the last few bid were genuine.....

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by zoesgift

you are assuming that the last few bid were genuine.....

A lot of the Time with these Estate Auctions. One Kid is just finding out how Much He/She owes their Siblings..

But My Wife says I'm a Cynical *****...

[Citroënbender]

Imagine getting one rough car with provenance, splitting it at the rear of the roof and at the toe board/firewall join...

Then you can make a pair of GT’s and each will have a number of the unique characteristics. It might almost be profitable now.

[boss351290]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

So I see that despite all the infantile condescension, nobody can actually answer this.

My point is simply this:
If two mates buy basically identical shells.
And each spends roughly the same money rebuilding them to identical "HO Standard"
If one mate has his for sale for say $60k, you'd be nuts to pay the other mate $600k for his, simply because of a VIN.

Your wife’s name is Sarah. She has a twin sister called Anna. They look the same and talk the same. Their twins. So your wife’s name is still Sarah. Even though Anna is exactly the same she is still not Sarah