Holden announces small car in two years!!!!

[billyb35]

What a joke the taxpayer is footing the bill for this?

Very cute politics in my opinion. What they have done is a $149 million bailout for Holden and have masked it as a "green" initative.

[chevypower]

Instead of saying "Holden announces..." can we say "Holden announced...."? I just hate the thought of editors having that much influence on us LOL

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by billyb35

What a joke the taxpayer is footing the bill for this?

Very cute politics in my opinion. What they have done is a $149 million bailout for Holden and have masked it as a "green" initative.

You obviously missed the video bite of Rudd standing next to the 5 year old drawing and all the Holden management proclaiming he saved Holden. $149 well spent in the ALP's mind

[Sprint XR8]

Australian Cruze Expensive, Unnecessary
By Edward Niedermeyer
December 22, 2008 -
The Australian federal government has hopped on the auto bailout bandwagon, “investing” $149m in production of a Holden-badged GM compact car. The South Australia state government will kick in $30m as well, as the Delta-platformed Cruze-alike will be produced near Adelaide. Styling and engineering will be carried out in Melbourne. And what do the Australian people get for their representatives’ fiscal abandon? According to Adelaide Now, the project will “support” 600 GM jobs and 600 supplier jobs, but it seems that these will likely not be new hires. Money for the project comes from Australia’s “Green Car Innovation Fund,” and its use is being justified by the possibility of ethanol, LPG and CNG powertrains at some indeterminate point in the future. “We recognise the needs and desires of motorists are evolving with growing concern around environmental factors and shifting consumer sentiment,” says Holden Chairman Mark Reuss. “Such evolution calls for an innovative approach… (and) the new vehicle will cater for growing demand for smaller cars focussed on economy.” when all is said and done though, the environmental issues are simply a greenwash for Australia to prop up weakening production and subsidize a “domestic” Corolla competitor. Sound familiar? The irony is that the GM doesn’t especially need a bespoke version of its global Cruze for Australia, although it will be required to match the government’s $149m outlay.


With the government picking up half the development cost it’s worth doing, but besides competing in Australia’s brutal small-car market there’s no real upside to the project. The alt-fuel talk is window dressing, there’s no chance of an export niche version, and GM is already ramping up to produce the Cruze in Europe, The US and Korea. There’s no good business reason to not import Cruzes from Korea… except for government “job-supporting” and green posturing. Sounds worth it.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/aus...uze-expensive/

[Gobes32]

I must admit that I am puzzled by the fact it will be produced in 4 other countries, the US was a given, Europe was another, but where are the other two plants?

[Sprint XR8]

The Chevrolet Cruze is a compact car produced by General Motors (GM) since 2008, replacing two unrelated cars—the Chevrolet Cobalt and Daewoo Lacetti. First introduced in 2008 for the South Korean market as the the Daewoo Lacetti, this replaced the car of the same name sold since 2003. The previous generation Lacetti was sold throughout Asia, Europe and Oceania as either a Chevrolet, Daewoo or a Holden. GM will replace this previous model with the new Cruze throughout 2009; using the same badge engineering strategy employed before. In North America, the Chevrolet Cobalt will be phased out and replaced by the Cruze from 2010.[1][2]

Underpinned by the GM Delta II platform, GM claims the Cruze was, "developed by a global design and engineering team and will be built in multiple locations around the world".[3] Such locations include Bupyong, South Korea, St. Petersburg, Russia,[4], Shenyang, China[5], Elizabeth, South Australia, Australia[6], and Lordstown, Ohio,[7] where GM is investing more than US$350 million.[8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Cruze

[Gobes32]

China and Korea are very close together to be producing the same car?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Paxton

How is worker morale? During the Gorman years, it was lower than low, however my source states that Osbourne was good at lifting, but having an Australian in charge could not be better.

Gorman was good for one thing as Ford, he made alot of people want to take the package. Never had I seen a line worker cry cause he couldn't get the package because so many wanted it!!
Its strange as the old production line use to be a dangerous place.

Originally Posted by Gobes32

China and Korea are very close together to be producing the same car?

In a few US sites Australia was never thought off, I'm assuming the money coming from the government changed GM's mind otherwise they would have stuck to GM's original plan and built it in Korea and imported it to Oz. That was the whole reason why we started getting the Daewoo rubbish in the first place.

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Yup.

Lastly, what does this mean to Astra, and why wouldn't Holden want to build their Euro car here, like Ford?

Exactly. The new Vectra is a nice car, Had one as a rental in May this year (Vauxhall). Better than that Korean we get here.

[Bossxr8]

One thing that concerns me about Ford and Holden making small cars is the potential loss of sales for the large cars in Falcon and Commodore.

They are cars in different classes but surely they will end up taking even more sales from the large cars that are already struggling? Government fleets may move from the large cars to the smaller more environmentally ones, and some diehard Ford or Holden buyers may still want to buy Australian but they might want to downside. Surely that will happen, and if large cars sink even more that that possibly result in the death of them?

Its a question that needs to be asked. If Falcon sales sink any lower then it will never justify the expense needed to upgrade it, sales are that low at the moment, if it goes any lower it surely can't survive?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

The articles suggest that the car will be built in 4 other countries as well as Australia. No doubt it will have a different front end to tailor it to each market. However this will limit the export potential for Holden

Seems like GM are learning nothing....

Where is the economic sense treating each arm of the company as an independent franchise?

GM Aus should be building the big sedan platform, GM europe building the small cars, and GM US building trucks/pickups. One production centre for each family of vehicles.

[ebxr8240]

They are trying to have a platform that can be made for all seasons..
So the assembly line doesn't have to be closed down for some time to change tooling..

[eb2fairmont]

149 mill will pay for tooling and R&D. So GM will be able to make this car for the cost of parts and labor only. All further R&D will be paid for in other parts of the GM empire.

The added volumes to Elizabeth with the existing workforce make this car cost effective.

In short it is a car and a whole second model line for nothring

Also, the volt is bulit on the delta II platform, so don't be surprised if this gets built at Elizabeth too (with exports) should it take off in the US.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

One thing that concerns me about Ford and Holden making small cars is the potential loss of sales for the large cars in Falcon and Commodore.

They are cars in different classes but surely they will end up taking even more sales from the large cars that are already struggling? Government fleets may move from the large cars to the smaller more environmentally ones, and some diehard Ford or Holden buyers may still want to buy Australian but they might want to downside. Surely that will happen, and if large cars sink even more that that possibly result in the death of them?

Its a question that needs to be asked. If Falcon sales sink any lower then it will never justify the expense needed to upgrade it, sales are that low at the moment, if it goes any lower it surely can't survive?

I can't for the life of me understand why Ford don't maximise the Falcons potential, irrespective of wether they make a small car.

Fit current technology LPG system to it. Fix the issues with the car. Yes I know its a darn sight better car then BF, but there are still shortcuts and engineering compromises that can be improved on. Raise build quality if at all possible. I won't say fix dealer network, as Ford will fail in Australia, before they will do that apparently. Start replacing it is probably more appropriate.

So..

Launch new marketing campaign with a slogan like:

No Compromises
Performance of a six and fuel economy of a four.

Follow up main ads with examples of where a Falcon will be a much nicer place to live and play, then a Corrolla etc.

Hammer it at every advertising outlet, until all our ears bleed.

Change the fundamental thinking of Falcon from a fuel hungry car (common misconception) to a fuel saving car.

McDonalds convinced people its a healthy place to eat if you want - so bigger miracles have been performed.

Also lower price for retail customers. Days of getting premiums from retail customers are coming to a close. Alternatively offer extra equipment at no charge for retail customers. Either way, make the cars price/value equation dam hard to go past for retail customers.

Finally shake up the network. Sell online or through online brokers. Appoint service only dealers - especially in country locations, to stimulate better standards of service through competition. Hold new appointees to much higher, vigirous and enforcable standards of presentation and customer satisfaction.

Pay all dealers reasonable compensation to fix warranty repairs. Give them a reason to give a about doing the job right.

Pay out whinging old dealers, who whine about changes and support those who recognise that Chrysler went out of the Australian market three decades ago and its time to update the business model and thinking from the big three, to holy **** we are in a twenty something brand market now and people don't give a crap our grand dad who made a mint starting this car selling business.

Breakup monolopies like Kloster Ford et al. They do no good for the Ford brand. You need business that throw their hat in the ring with you - not one who thinks you are just one more brand for the sales machine to sell.

Also get rid of the ego maniacs who think they own their patch and haven't got their sales or their attitude adjusted in thirty years. They are redundant and hold the company back.

In short get fresh blood. Customer focussed, hungry to achieve and totally dependent on mutual success for survival. Treat them well, but have the rules in place to drop them the instant they look like being a liability to the brand.

Reward employees inside company both financially and in status, for consistent improvements in systems, quality and service. Make it more then a "employee of the month" type show and get serious about it. Let the stars and Ford fans in the company shine and reward them accordingly. Give them the responsibility and opportunity to change the business at the most fundamental levels.


Rinse and repeat until bad wood and negative cultural and institutional patterns of behaviour are removed from the company and its supporting infrastructure.

Ford Aust will never rise above its current position in sales and will in all likelyhood, continue to decline unless the culture of the company is changed.

We had glimpes of what could be done with Polites, but that didnt work in all areas of Ford. Now its do or die. Focus in my opinion is not about to turn things around - a short reprieve maybe.

Daniel

[Mansal]

Originally Posted by billyb35

What a joke the taxpayer is footing the bill for this?

Very cute politics in my opinion. What they have done is a $149 million bailout for Holden and have masked it as a "green" initative.

Couldn't agree more!

[The G6ET Spot]

At least it doesn't seem that I am the only one that is getting very tired of the government using OUR taxes to bail out private companies.

instead of putting it into health, education and other infrastructure.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

I can't for the life of me understand why Ford don't maximise the Falcons potential, irrespective of wether they make a small car.

Fit current technology LPG system to it. Fix the issues with the car. Yes I know its a darn sight better car then BF, but there are still shortcuts and engineering compromises that can be improved on. Raise build quality if at all possible. I won't say fix dealer network, as Ford will fail in Australia, before they will do that apparently. Start replacing it is probably more appropriate.

The FG was gonna have a better LPG system but there were issues with patents so they had to go with the system they had.

The FG is a better car then the B-series and the problems with the FG are much lower then the BA had. Also from what I've seen the FG is put together sooo much better then the B-series.

So they are getting there, but what you have to remember is that these cars are built to a budget. The Falcon is not worldwide car and the R&D costs can not be spread out like they can with a Camry or a Mazda 6 or a Lancer etc..
So for the money that the engineers have here they do a pretty good job and the cars are getting better and will continue to do so. Toyota didn't get to were they were overnight either. The only issue Ford now faces is selling the car, if it doesn't sell then it wont be built anymore.

[GK]

Originally Posted by vztrt

The FG is a better car then the B-series and the problems with the FG are much lower then the BA had.

What are the problems with the FG?

GK

[vztrt]

Nothing much, it seems the issues are more to do with gadgets in the car then mechanical problems.

[vztrt]

Seems the Cruze is secure in Oz for 20 years.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25764E0020DA9D

Holden's Cruze a 20-year deal for manufacturing, says federal industry minister

13 October 2009

By MARTON PETTENDY

HOLDEN’S locally made Cruze small car should shore up General Motors manufacturing in Adelaide for at least the next 20 years as Australia continues to play an integral role in the American auto giant’s global automotive operations.

That is the verdict of federal industry minister Kim Carr after leading a delegation of 20 Australian automotive industry representatives on an extensive trade tour of the US last week, during which he gained commitments from both GM and the Ford Motor Company of their continued involvement in car manufacturing here.

In an exclusive interview with GoAuto this week, Senator Carr – who met with GM chief executive Fritz Henderson and Ford CEO Alan Mulally in Detroit – said there was “enormous confidence” at the highest levels in the Australian engineering and manufacturing operations of both companies.

Senator Carr also said he made it clear to GM that he was determined to ensure Australia was “at the head of the queue” should the company choose to build its Volt plug-in hybrid outside the US.

“The point of the trip is to reinforce the links between the Australian automotive industry and the US automotive industry at a time of great uncertainty within the United States,” Senator Carr told GoAuto.

“The message is very clear. There is enormous confidence in the quality, the breadth and the role of manufacturing in Australia for both Ford and General Motors.

“There is no doubt in my mind that Detroit has the view that Australia remains a vital part of their international production systems.”

Led by Senator Carr and his US automotive industry envoy, former Victorian premier Steve Bracks, the Australian trade delegation was told by senior executives from both companies that establishing specialist capabilities would allow local manufacturers and suppliers to take part in the development of environmentally friendlier vehicles on a global basis.

Specifically, Senator Carr confirmed GM has committed to investing an additional $1 million into the research and development of seven different projects at the Co-operative Research Centre for Advanced Automotive Technology (AutoCRC) at Fishermens Bend – four of which will involve the CSIRO, which was also represented on the trade mission.

Set up essentially to link academia with the car industry, AutoCRC includes input from Holden and several suppliers and universities.

“A range of new initiatives were discussed (with GM), which highlights the growing link between the Australian automotive industry and our main scientific agencies, including our universities,” Senator Carr said. “The Automotive Innovation Council as you know has been specifically designed to put together those sorts of connections.

“We’re trying to involve our scientists, our researchers, in all aspects of the automotive industry, because that is the way in which we develop a cutting-edge competitive advantage for the deployment of new technologies and new processes.”

Holden would not comment specifically on the investment, but it is understood the projects include improved simulated and virtual manufacturing techniques to improve design and reduce development costs, advanced coatings and laser-based engine diagnostic technology.

“In the first instance it’s modification to the internal combustion engine,” said Senator Carr. “That’s where you’ll get the most rapid change in fuel economy and emissions.

“It’s not just in the drivetrain; it’s aerodynamics, it’s the use of light metals, advanced electronics. Advanced engine technology is quite clearly critical.”

Senator Carr said GM was able to commit to longer-term projects than Ford because Holden was at a more advanced stage in the lifecycle of its core model than Ford.

“Because it’s a different period in the lifecycle of the Commodore there are commitments to future program developments with General Motors for the Commodore,” he said.

Senator Carr said GM had committed to further developments of the Commodore platform beyond Holden’s newest US export hope, the recently revealed Chevrolet Caprice police vehicle.

“We already know that Holden will be an integral part of the new General Motors. Talks with senior executives on this trip have given us a better picture of what this means.

“Holden will remain a global centre for the development and production of hi-tech, rear-wheel drive vehicles. There were detailed discussions about future export programs and obviously the police car has been extremely well received,” he said.

“The tender for the police car is going very, very well. We think there is enormous potential there and while it is a very rigorous tender process we should not assume that this is all a done deal because it is not.

“The truth of the matter is that the Crown Victoria is a vehicle that is going out of production, that has dominated the police market in the US for a very long time, and it is timely that GMH has put this bid forward.

“It (Holden’s Chevrolet Caprice patrol car) is an extremely good vehicle, it is priced very competitively, it is a vehicle that provides the sort of performance that the police are looking for.

“Police forces want the stability, handling and safety you can only get with a rear-wheel drive vehicle – the kind of vehicle Australia makes better than just about everyone else.

“They also want high performance, low fuel consumption and low greenhouse emissions. Better known to us as the Statesman, Holden’s Chevrolet Caprice ticks all these boxes.

“Law enforcement agencies in the United States buy about 80,000 patrol cars a year. Capturing even a quarter of this market would be a coup for Holden. It would be an important step in the transformation of the industry, which must ultimately be export-led.

“General Motors’ willingness to promote this Australian vehicle in its own backyard is proof positive of its faith in our product. Senior executives in Detroit have indicated to me that they are committed to the further development of the Commodore platform,” he said.

As well as the CEO of Ford Credit and senior US economists and environmentalists, Senator Carr also met with senior members of the Obama administration.

He said US government and union concerns about the prospect of domestic police forces buying an imported model would not be a deal-breaker for the Caprice patrol car.

“We spoke to them about the way in which the Australian industry can work more effectively with the US industry,” he said.

“There is a matter of clear tension operating at the moment … because of the pressure on the US automotive industry, where the involvement of international supply chains is a sensitive question.

“However, what’s been argued is that where arrangements become mutually beneficial, then there is scope for further engagement.

“We talked to them about their engagements and the extent to which their programs … their stimulus programs are often very explicitly aimed at the promotion of domestic manufacturing in the US, so as I say there is tension there in terms of the relationship with Australia.

“However, those matters can be worked through where there is clear evidence of mutual benefit.

“There are some reservations in the US about the use of an Australian-made vehicle, but the truth is the Crown Victoria is a Canadian-made vehicle.

“There is sensitivity about it but it ought not be sufficient to render the vehicle uncompetitive,” he said.

Either way, Senator Carr said Australian production of Holden’s imported Cruze sedan and its locally designed hatchback sibling in late 2010 would shore up GM manufacturing in Adelaide for the next two decades.

“It’s another opportunity to broaden our capabilities, to help transform General Motors (Holden) and it should set General Motors up for the next 20 years.

“The vehicle is yet to be built, so we’ll obviously see how it is received. (But) I’m pretty confident there will be export opportunities through the development of the Australian-built Cruze,” he said.

The federal industry minister reiterated the potential for up to five derivatives of GM’s compact Delta platform – which forms the basis of the Cruze, Astra and Volt hybrid, which Holden has promised to sell here from 2012 – but the chances of Australian manufacturing involvement depended on each car’s financial viability.

“A new fuel-efficient four-cylinder Holden will start coming off the production line at Elizabeth next year. The Commonwealth is supporting this initiative through the Green Car Innovation Fund,” he said.

“General Motors engineers have pointed out that this car uses the same basic architecture as the battery-electric Chevrolet Volt, which will be launched in the United States late in 2010.

“The Delta has five different capabilities. No decision has been made about whether or where the Volt will be produced outside the United States, but we are determined to make sure Australia is at the head of the queue.

“The technology is compatible with the Cruze, so we’ll look at the issue of building an electric version of the vehicle as the business case is demonstrated. It’s always been part of our plan to consider that when the business case is established.”

While Ford this year cancelled plans to produce its next-generation Focus small car in Australia from 2011, it has committed to a next-generation direct liquid-injection LPG system for the Falcon in 2010, and V6 turbo-diesel versions of the Territory and four-cylinder EcoBoost versions of the Falcon from 2011.

Senator Carr said senior Ford officials have confirmed they are investigating further engineering programs.

“Ford Australia has led the design, development, engineering and testing for the new (T6) Ranger pick-up, which will be sold in countries around the world, contributed critical design and engineering work to the new Figo small car just launched in India in collaboration with other Ford R&D centres and done all the design, development, engineering and testing for the uniquely Australian E8 platform, which underpins the Falcon sedan, the Falcon ute and the Territory,” he said.

“The Commonwealth is supporting the introduction of these fuel-saving and carbon-cutting technologies (EcoBoost, diesel and LPG) through the Green Car Innovation Fund.

“Ford will continue to draw on this unique R&D resource, with senior executives confirming that the company is looking at what other engineering programs can be undertaken in Australia.

“While Ford have just introduced a new model and have made significant new investments in new hi-tech engine technologies, it’s not reasonable to expect them to be contemplating what they are doing next,” he said.

“That’s an unrealistic question, but there’s no question about Ford’s commitment to Australian manufacturing, particularly the design and engineering centres, with the contribution they make to global platforms.

“We’re working with them on better performance in terms of the inline six. They’ve just announced a series of new investments for fuel-injection systems and the diesel. So there is a range of things that are being encouraged.”

Senator Carr said Australia’s wider components supply industry stood to gain much from closer ties with the US industry if it was prepared to invest in new technology.

“The message from Detroit is that we can exploit this foundation by extending our capabilities in batteries, electric motors and advanced electronics,” he said.

“We are already doing leading-edge work in these areas, not least at CSIRO, whose high-performance UltraBattery is currently being commercialised under licence in the United States.

“We’ve got quite extensive investment in battery technologies from the CSIRO and we’ve also had quite extensive investments in bio-fuels through our research agencies, so where this goes in the future is a question that remains unresolved.

“Our challenge is to translate great ideas into products and processes that will reshape the Australian car industry and take it in an entirely new direction. It is also about making the most of our leadership in design and development, which is the first thing people in Detroit want to talk about.

“We need to concentrate more on batteries, electrics and light metals. We need to develop our capacity and that’s what the roadmap is doing through the Automotive Innovation Council, which has been specifically tasked with identifying strengths in terms of our capabilities and opportunities for further development.

“My hope is to be able to have that ready for release at the Shanghai International Expo next March.”

While the Australian trade delegation is now in the UK, the industry minister said the US component of the trip aimed to build on the strong relationship that already existed between the US and Australian automotive industries.

“The Australian industry has a great reputation and many friends in Detroit,” he said.

“The Australian who designed the Monaro is now designing Cadillacs for General Motors. Former Holden chief Mark Reuss is now second in charge of GM’s product development. Current Ford Australia chief Marin Burela built strong networks throughout the company during his years in the United States and Europe.

“Now is the time to make the most of these links. That’s what I have been doing in Detroit. We still have a big job in front of us, but with hard work and good ideas, there is no reason why Australia cannot cement its place in the new automotive world order.”

[Gobes32]

I can't help but feel that Senator Carr is bit misguided in terms of how Holden and Ford are operating in oz? Is he aware that the I6 is a brilliant world class engine that is more powerful and more fuel efficient than the Holden 3.0 V6? And is hardly in need of " engineering to improve performance "....... I am also surprised by his comment that “While Ford have just introduced a new model and have made significant new investments in new hi-tech engine technologies, it’s not reasonable to expect them to be contemplating what they are doing next,”. Well Mr Carr, I think you may find that they have no reason to alert you or the rest of the auto manufacturing world as to what their plans are over the foreseeable future. Whether intended or not, this statement comes across to me as if Ford are unsure as to their future in Oz? Or am I being too sensitive? I also can't help but feel he has been misled by Holden's "Hype Machine" more commonly known as the PR department? Their future is guaranteed for twenty years???? That is rubbish..... If Cruze fails and Holden cannot export the Commodore, then they are as much in trouble as any other manufacturer. It is ridiculous for Holden to think they are safe for that period of time!!

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I can't help but feel that Senator Carr is bit misguided in terms of how Holden and Ford are operating in oz? Is he aware that the I6 is a brilliant world class engine that is more powerful and more fuel efficient than the Holden 3.0 V6? And is hardly in need of " engineering to improve performance "....... I am also surprised by his comment that “While Ford have just introduced a new model and have made significant new investments in new hi-tech engine technologies, it’s not reasonable to expect them to be contemplating what they are doing next,”. Well Mr Carr, I think you may find that they have no reason to alert you or the rest of the auto manufacturing world as to what their plans are over the foreseeable future. Whether intended or not, this statement comes across to me as if Ford are unsure as to their future in Oz? Or am I being too sensitive? I also can't help but feel he has been misled by Holden's "Hype Machine" more commonly known as the PR department? Their future is guaranteed for twenty years???? That is rubbish..... If Cruze fails and Holden cannot export the Commodore, then they are as much in trouble as any other manufacturer. It is ridiculous for Holden to think they are safe for that period of time!!

I can't see how Holden will be able to compete on price with the Cruze when A$1 = US$0.9.

They can't they win the private sector over and make money ! They will sell cars to fleets (on the back of guaranteed govenment sales) and try to survive...

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I can't help but feel that Senator Carr is bit misguided in terms of how Holden and Ford are operating in oz? Is he aware that the I6 is a brilliant world class engine that is more powerful and more fuel efficient than the Holden 3.0 V6? And is hardly in need of " engineering to improve performance "....... I am also surprised by his comment that “While Ford have just introduced a new model and have made significant new investments in new hi-tech engine technologies, it’s not reasonable to expect them to be contemplating what they are doing next,”. Well Mr Carr, I think you may find that they have no reason to alert you or the rest of the auto manufacturing world as to what their plans are over the foreseeable future. Whether intended or not, this statement comes across to me as if Ford are unsure as to their future in Oz? Or am I being too sensitive? I also can't help but feel he has been misled by Holden's "Hype Machine" more commonly known as the PR department? Their future is guaranteed for twenty years???? That is rubbish..... If Cruze fails and Holden cannot export the Commodore, then they are as much in trouble as any other manufacturer. It is ridiculous for Holden to think they are safe for that period of time!!

If it means more money to the I6 then it'll be good...maybe even seen as a good engine for other models.