Crossing to the dark side...

[TUF_302]

An old school holden is ok with me, if you was to get a VL or something we would have to start an angry mob and hunt you down tho!

[Gobes32]

Unfortunately the 253 is on par with the 308 when it comes to fuel consumption. The only reason to keep a 253 is to be original and save time and money not having to swap motors. If you ever decide to want to make it go quicker, save yourself a lot of hassle and bolt in a 308.

[imugli]

I think the first thing will be a strip down and all round spray. A real able-to-eat-off-the-floorpan job.

This is going to be a looong term thing, with the engine probably being the last piece of the puzzle, though I am now leaning toward the 308.

[Jeddak]

for my two cents worth.... in 1980 when our Chrysler 360 was in the panel beaters after an event with a roo, we had the pleasure of driving a HQ premier sedan with 3spd manual trans and 253 from Hughenden to Townsville and return and all I can say is .....if you want to leave the 253 in ...go for it!
that car was the sweetest thing I had driven for a long time and the only reason why we didn't trade the Chrysler on it was that we still owed too much on it.( and it had its own style too !)
A good 253 is like the ford 289 or the valiant 273, they have the sound without the weight and if in good tune, return good economy ok not as powerful,but no stress either :

[imugli]

Thanks for the comments Jeddak.

I remember being about 8 or 9 driving from Melbourne to Albury in my brothers HJ Prem wagon, my sister's boyfriend in hs HQ Prem wagon ahead of us. Both running nicely tuned 253s, both sounding awesome and nether short on power (though a 9 yo's percption probably isn't the most reliable :-))

It currently has a 202 in it, so the other comments saying I should go straight to the 308 cos i'll end up wanting the extra power anyway probably have some merit and, having seen first hand the obsession these things become (always another part, a better part, a better tune) it's a tough decision to make. One my wife (or my wallet) won't let me get wrong :-)

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Jeddak

A good 253 is like the ford 289 or the valiant 273, they have the sound without the weight and if in good tune, return good economy ok not as powerful,but no stress either :

How do you figure without the weight? The 253 and 308 are the same block. The advantage the 253 has in longevity comes from the smaller bore size resulting in increased bore wall thickness.

[XA_GT351]

put a 186 red in it

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by XA_GT351

put a 186 red in it

with a blue 12 port head -

[imugli]

OK now you're taking the p*ss

[LOCO XP]

Quite reasonable comments re: 12 port headed red motor, with electronic ignition and a sensible carb. Its not a far stretch to obtain good performance, economy and road manners from such a combo. As for the 253 vs 308, depends on how much you're willing to spend. Performance and economy are insignificant between the two in stock configuration and either respond nicely to optimising cam and carb setup. Known plenty of 253's with the dreaded (and undeservedly so) Rochester carb that would give amany Cleveland equipped Fords a run for their money. On the same token I have also been blessed wih the experience of co-piloting many a wild Holden 6 in many different vehicles (very fond memories of a 500 Holley-fed 202 in a HJ One Tonner, and also a triple dell-orto equipped blueprinted and balanced 186 with Yella Terra head and rollers... HR ute... oh yes, and my mates winning combo 202 methanol burning VH Commodore mud basher). Thus IMO the V8 conversion is mostly for noise and looks in Holdens used for regular duties.

Anyway, all options sound good wrt this project, sounds like a great car, and even kept stock I certainly wouldn't class it as crossing to the darkside. Be sure to post up a buildup in the project section

[imugli]

Perhaps a tricked up Blue 202 with triple carb setup?

Street Machine built one about 8 years ago and got ~140kw from it. Carbs probably wouldn't add that much power but would give the thing that detail kick a six would need to grab attention.

What do people think?

[Wally]

I'd stick to the delivered high compression version engines. The 202 red can be tricked up to some decent figures over the standard 101kW, the 253 gives you 138kW out of the box, the 308 179kW and the 350 205kW.

The 253 is excellent for providing a lovely old school exhaust note.

[RAREV8]

Originally Posted by imugli

Perhaps a tricked up Blue 202 with triple carb setup?

Street Machine built one about 8 years ago and got ~140kw from it. Carbs probably wouldn't add that much power but would give the thing that detail kick a six would need to grab attention.

What do people think?

Triples are a bit of a bugger to set up and maintain correctly...I love the sound of the 253 but the 308 won't cost any more to mod slightly should you wish....having said that, a 202 with a 350 holley, cam and extractors is a good little combo and won't set you back much at all as you already have the motor in there!

[LOCO XP]

Triple carb sixes are cool. They look great, sound excellent and make plenty of HP. If you know how to keep them tuned they are a good thing, problem is, most people that think they know, really don't. As such they will use more fuel than most V8s, not perform, flood the engine, be difficult to start when cold.... So if you fall into the majority category that isn't proficient in the art of tuning multiple Webers/Dell Ortos/SUs/Strombergs, steer away as it will only end in headache. A 202, which the Kingswood in question already has, will benefit from a 350 Holley, which is ample for the 6. Add some extractors and a VK electronic ignition, if possible source a 12 port head and you will have a sweet runner with a tough burbling 6 for around $500. Will give you some driving pleasure, without having to swap engines/trans etc, and allow you to do a leisurely build up on a stinking hot 308.....
Consider 304 or Alloy heads, roller rockers, 355 stroker kit, barry grant carb, cam, extractors, TH auto, stall converter, 9" diff, low as hell, wide rear rubber etc etc.... So if you're gonna do it, go all out. But at least give the old 6 a chance, enjoy the car for a little while in its factory form, and in doing so, save some coin and piece together some swap meet/trading post bargains until the bug bites and hook in. Look forward to seeing some pics and getting a progress report

[Jondalar]

Hmmm HQ, do they really allow cars that handle that badly on the roads these days?

[imugli]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Hmmm HQ, do they really allow cars that handle that badly on the roads these days?

Apparently so...

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Hmmm HQ, do they really allow cars that handle that badly on the roads these days?

Plenty of us still have them, look in the classic falcon area.

[Jondalar]

: Cool. My brother had one back in 73 when I was a fairly new driver and I was amazed how badly it steered compared to my HG GTS Monaro. Could never get used to the weird steering wheel either. Now give me a mint HG Monaro and I'd be happy!

[imugli]

What happend to the GTS?

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Plenty of us still have them, look in the classic falcon area.

Good response

[Jondalar]

imugli I traded it for a Mazda 808 : to please a woman :togo:

[imugli]

Aah yes... the finer sex and the things we do for them :-)

[LOCO XP]

Originally Posted by Wally

Good response

I agree, HQ's aren't that bad compared to a lot of earlybirds... dont know many front ends falling apart as the XK's especially are noted for.

[Jeddak]

And as far as handling goes... one could source all the bits that were fitted to the HZ and install these ,it would require a front frame change. I believe as well.
however you would then have the prettiest of the series ( HQ to WB , my opinion only) and a tidy handler as well.
on the comment of weights of the various V8s, true, the 308 is about the same weight, but some of the members were talking of larger than that.

[imugli]

A 202, which the Kingswood in question already has, will benefit from a 350 Holley, which is ample for the 6. Add some extractors and a VK electronic ignition, if possible source a 12 port head and you will have a sweet runner with a tough burbling 6 for around $500. Will give you some driving pleasure, without having to swap engines/trans etc, and allow you to do a leisurely build up on a stinking hot 308.....

I think you're on to something there. Have been reading up on fitting a blue motor head. Apparently takes some drilling but nothing that seems too difficult. Would really love a triple carb job and I know a couple of good mechanics, so getting and keeping them tuned shouldn't be a problem. A set of pacemakers and a 2.5" exhaust should see everything exit OK and (eventually) a Supra 5 speed will see it all go fairly well me thinks... The plan is for the engine / running gear to come out for the spray so perhaps will get some fun out of the engine before I start that and build a 308 to spec for when everything gets torn apart.

[vanman_75]

yer its just a couple water ports to line up, did a few in the day .i remember killing mums new hoover cleaning up the fillings .she still doesnt know about that got it fixed on warranty lol.

[LOCO XP]

If you're thinking about triples, better have some coin, cos they (usually) don't come cheap. Certainly money you could put towards building up a hot V8. On the other hand, you could easily pick up a Holley, manifold, electronic ignition, head and some extractors very easily, for not much cash at all. They perform quite well, even with a stock stromberg, and I know of some oldschool speedway/grey/red motor blokes that swear by using modified Bedford carbs, which to my understanding are a larger diameter stromberg. But I could be wrong. Keep it simple in my opinion, too often things get out of hand and a lot of money gets burnt in the process of going all out from one plan to another

[imugli]

Appreciate your comments Loco and can def. see your point. The triple carbs will look great and go great, but they are a nice-to-have that will probably go by the wayside in favour of a 350 Holley whilst, as you say, I build a nice 308.

[mcnews]

John Cain made a great manifold for the red motor that worked well for economy teamed with a 465cfm Holley four-barrel or if the engine has head work and cam etc. works well with the 625cfm Rochester Quadrajet as fitted to Brock Commodores.

You can get Supra five speed bellhousing and kits to put behind the red motor too that makes it a nice package.

[XA_GT351]

I got the twin su carby setup with the lynx monaro manifold on the 192, stg3 yellaterra head, i can recall my grandfather getting it dyno tuned using holleys etc in the late 80s and the twin (pommy) su was the best choice with more hp, My mates got the same engine/head setup but with the 5 speed celica box and tripple strombergs and is a dog to drive compared to mine, and always has carby issues. everytime i drive the Fb i'm always impressed with the performance of the old red and the thing was built 18 years ago.