School zones - speed related

[T_Terror]

Well i guess im the only one who thinks this idea is completely ridiculous, just like the 40kmh zones.

When the 40zones were brought in i didnt see any research or statistics or any sort of factual reason as to why it was brought it. All i heard was heart-string pulling cries to slow down for the children, oh why wont someone think of the children!!

Well thats great and seemed to work well considering noone questioned the decision to implement the new zones and anyone that did was branded a "hoon" and a child-murderer.

But how many kids were dying crossing roads before the new rules were brought in? Does anyone here realise that it is an offence for kids to cross roads unless it is at a school crossing? They even get detention for it, this was at all the schools i went to.
The money spent on this crap would have been much better spent on more road education for kids instead of trying to make enemies of drivers.

50kmh is slow enough for school zones, and most drivers will slow down in low visibility conditions around school. Ok so lets take off 10 kays to save the children (and make a few bucks parking cameras at schools).
But where does it end? Not at 40kmh obviously...

Seriously why bother driving if it causes that much risk? Oh thats right if you can afford to drive you can afford to pay the stealth road tax.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by slipper

What crap! Surely you can read traffic signs and can identity a school without lights? Do you need flashing stimuli every time you come across a stop sign? Anybody who does should immediately trade their licence for a frickin' bus pass!

A speed limit of 25km/h is OK by me at primary schools. You only have to put up with it for 400m or so and that adds only ~20 seconds to your trip. It is not about shifting responsibility to drivers, more about the fact that young kids just don't really get the big picture at that age. I certainly don't see the need to drop speeds below 40km/h at high schools. If you are of that age, it is time you started to understand the consequences of your actions.

Personally, I want to know why kids have to be driven to school every day? I used to walk or ride my pushbike! Any wonder the kids are so fat and the traffic so bad!

Refer my earlier post mate, quite often you have the signs obscured by trees and shrubs. Additionally, if you are focussing your attention on traffic issues like changing lanes or looking in your rear view mirror you can miss the sign.

As for school zones being clearly marked, why not take a drive down the boulevarde in strathfield where there are 3 school zones in the space of 1.5klm?
then you have more once you get around the corner near redmyre road.
Thats 4 in the space of 2 klm so by your calculation that would add 1 minute 20 to a 2klm trip.

I'm not suggesting that anyone would like to hit a child, and its something that I pay particular attention to when I see the kids, but the arguement still stands; why penalise drivers further particularly where fine revenue is concerned when a more effective approach would be to educate children nationally - backed up by public service advertising on television during the hours kids watch tv. This isn't a new untried approach, it has happened before to great effect.

[UNR8D]

Originally Posted by slipper

What crap! Surely you can read traffic signs and can identity a school without lights? Do you need flashing stimuli every time you come across a stop sign? Anybody who does should immediately trade their licence for a frickin' bus pass!

dont know if you have driven up here in qld but alot of the sign's have trees/bushes over hanging, even stupidly put directly behind a lamp post so its not always that easy, im still baffled as how you can not agree that lights would attract more attention and make drivers aware of a schoolzone and that the limit's are still enforce, would make sence as i had a mate who i was with at the time get done for 62 in a 40 zone, according to us it was 9:04 cop said it was 8:59, with the light system this would rid any confusion.

we live in a state where the speed for school zones varies from 40 - 80 in rural area's (no im not lieing) and times that vary from area' to area so it makes it confusing for drivers when faced with varying options with school area's in just qld let alone people traveling interstate.

Scooby can go ИИИИ himself, im over that pompus pricks remarks about redicilous road safey scheems, he must wake up in the morning and think, how can i really ИИИИ off australia today... ohh i know ill just open my mouth, his oppinions are held with a grain of salt by most, and i feel sorry for those that belive the bullИИИИ that dribbles from this guys mouth.
All this comming from a guy last year wanting to ban tint as he belived it had links to terriorism... :

making speeds slower will increase the impatiance of motorists and i belive have the reverse effects of what they are trying to acheave, once out of the speed zone or once the '25km/h car is out of the way they will drive like a mad man to make up lost time, and make people extremely frustrated as their will be morning joggers passing them, if you cannot consintrate at 40km/h and bring your car to a stop with in a few meters then i would be concerned as to why you have a licance in the first place, hell does ABS even effectivly work at 40km/h? ing_sm

[J.C.]

We may have to take a good long, hard look at society today. No care, no responsibility, and it is always someone elses fault. BULLИИИИ! You park your butt behind the wheel of a motor vehicle, you become responsible for that vehicle and whatever it runs into or over. We can educate society as much as we like. If society doesn't give a toss, it's not going to stick. Common sence is not all that common any more. Hence, laws are made to try and eliminate or reduce risk. Albeit, some of these laws are made by people who wouldn't know their ИИИИ from their elbow but the theory behind it all is to try and reduce risk of tragedy etc.
From what I have seen picking my kids up from school, parents double parking, hopping out while double parked to have a chat or get the kids into the car, kids running onto the road, kids looking at you coming and stepping onto the road in front of you so you have to slow down and wheave your way through them all. For some reason, they think this is cool. It's total crap. An absolute disgrace that we can see what is happening yet cannot work out the consequences of our actions or the actions of others. Personally, I slow down in school zones. Drive to the conditions. Do not have a problem with it and I can only hope that the other motorists on the road are as courteous and mindful of what can happen. Driving through school zones can be a nightmare,I have no doudt, with rogue kids running everwhere but where they're suppose to, enraged parents and then add to the mix teenagers with daddy Clubby chucking a few quick laps and maybe laying a bit of rubber in front of the school before taking his/her mates home. Have I painted a good enough picture yet?

My apology in advance if I have offended anyone, however that's my thoughts and opinions, for what they are worth, on this topic.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Yes i slow down too, but i seem to be the only one around at the time who does. Back when i was a kid we had no school zones and everything went smoothly, as i used this intelligence theory when crossing roads:

if car = on road { wait until car = passed } | else { look left, right left, cross with caution }

enough said.

[MITCHAY]

School zones should only be for pre school and primary school. High school and college students are big enough and ugly enough to know when and when not to cross the road.

[UNR8D]

it happens all to often JC i agree with you, but government likes the *hurt your hip pocket theory as opposed to the... ИИИИИ we better educate some drivers/pedistrian's or they will end up as statistics.

the law of commonsence has still failed to become part of their everyday lateral thinking when sitting having a debate, when it does maybe just maybe some order will be returned to society.

[J.C.]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

School zones should only be for pre school and primary school. High school and college students are big enough and ugly enough to know when and when not to cross the road.

Unfortunately the parents of the kid you just splatted won't be thinking along those lines, not to mention the judge and prosecutor as they slam your ИИИИ into jail for manslaughter. Until it is your child that has to be fed through a tube or worse, killed, we tend to take the easy way out. "He/she stepped out in front of me so it's his/her fault that they dead" just may not cut it in court when your getting pineappled.

[new2ford]

What puzzles me is why they have school zones outside schools on major roads where there is a pedestrian bridge that the kids use to cross the road. Also flashing lights would help those who don't have kids and don't know when the school terms are.

But the biggest thing is, no matter what the speed limit is there are so many stupid dangerous drivers out there who have absolutely nfi what's going on around them - the same ones as the right lane huggers we discussed on another thread. There is one parent at our local school who drives within the limit but she doesn't seem to understand what a pedestrian crossing is and she drives straight through the school crossing when there are kids crossing on it. There are a couple of others who treat the stop line on the crossing as a convenient parking marker and stop there to drop their kids or even park (illegally of course), thus totally obstructing the view of the crossing. How do these people get their licences and where are the police when these things happen? No matter what the speed limit is it won't control stupid people who will still run over a kid even at 15ks because they live in a mental fog.

[J.C.]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

it happens all to often JC i agree with you, but government likes the *hurt your hip pocket theory as opposed to the... ИИИИИ we better educate some drivers/pedistrian's or they will end up as statistics.

the law of commonsence has still failed to become part of their everyday lateral thinking when sitting having a debate, when it does maybe just maybe some order will be returned to society.

I agree. Sad isn't it? Our lives are in the hands of politicians who are trying their best .......... to cover their rears. Very negative way of thinking. Change of attitude maybe required.

[slipper]

Originally Posted by ltd

Refer my earlier post mate, quite often you have the signs obscured by trees and shrubs. Additionally, if you are focussing your attention on traffic issues like changing lanes or looking in your rear view mirror you can miss the sign.

So, if one of the signs is hidden by a tree (and there is usually more than one), you have no other clues? What about lots of kids in uniform, lollipop ladies (persons?), the traffic chaos of a thousand Pajeros vying for poll position?

Originally Posted by UNR8D

dont know if you have driven up here in qld but alot of the sign's have trees/bushes over hanging, even stupidly put directly behind a lamp post so its not always that easy, im still baffled as how you can not agree that lights would attract more attention and make drivers aware of a schoolzone and that the limit's are still enforce...

Mate, I didn't say that flashing lights would not get your attention. I asked if an alert driver really needed such a device. You can read other road signs without flashing lights, can't you?

[Scott]

IMO 40kph = safe, 25kph = revenue. Who actually has an analogue speedo that reads 25kmh?

[Cespenar]

40 KPH is good. Dropping kids off on the RIGHT side of the road is good.
Scruby is BAD. Idiots who drive through school zones at UP TO 80kph are bad.
And there are plenty of those idiots. Parents who drop kids off on the WRONG side of the road are bad.
There is no problem! Just book the idiots and remove their cars from registry. UMMM! on second thoughts, that might make sense. And wer all know that sense and Government and SCRUBY dont go together.

[DRU842]

I don't mind slowing at all for school zones but I do get ИИИИty with the lack of warning, variabilty of school year etc. Also the inappropriate use of zones when pedestrian lights, barriers & overhead crossings exist.

[WILDTRAKPX2]

As long as it doesn't lead to traffic conjestion in and around these areas, I'm in favour of it. Having kids at both high school and primary, I see the problems every day with buses everywhere, parents in cars trying to find a park to drop off or pick up, kids on bikes, kids on foot and, without fail, there is always the loser who still flies through these zones doing 60+.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by slipper

So, if one of the signs is hidden by a tree (and there is usually more than one), you have no other clues? What about lots of kids in uniform, lollipop ladies (persons?), the traffic chaos of a thousand Pajeros vying for poll position?

Mate, I didn't say that flashing lights would not get your attention. I asked if an alert driver really needed such a device. You can read other road signs without flashing lights, can't you?

We don't have lollipop ladies, we only have one sign on the entrance to the school zone, and one that says 60 at the end of it. I don't know what you have in Brisbane, but perhaps before you cast aspersions upon my spatial awareness a trip into Sydney might be warranted. Oh, and the plethora of school children you speak of typically are at the entrance of the school, our zones commence between 200 - 300 metres beforehand. This is also conveniently where the police tend to sit with their radars. And before you make the comment, we have tree lined streets here so seeing the children a couple hundred metres away can at times be difficult. Especially when it's say 3:55 and the school is empty because the students left at 3:10.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by GMH8TR

IMO 40kph = safe, 25kph = revenue. Who actually has an analogue speedo that reads 25kmh?

Good point, and how accurate are most speedo's at that speed anyway ? I know mine's bang on the money from 50 to 110, tested it against a gps speed tracker. Low down can be a very different story.

[slipper]

So what you are saying, ltd, is that you have a problem reading school zone speed limit signs. But you have no issue with any other speed limit sign, even though they might also suffer from obscurity behind trees etc. Is that correct? If the sign is truly hidden, then that is your defence against the ticket.

I don't recall having any difficulty reading these signs when I am in Sydney. Or Melbourne. Or anywhere else for that matter.

[flappist]

FORDGUY there are a few things you don't understand.

1) Australian schools are not like american schools with big signs, bright yellow schoolbusses etc, many are on main highways. Whe do not have an interstate system like you guys, multi lane roads sometimes go through the middle of town and actually dissect schools.

2) Australian humour, terminologies and speech is very different from USA. It is very common for you guys to not understand what we actually mean.

e.g. Calling someone a bastard in USA is always an insult. Here it can mean many things from a personal insult to strong compliment.

When I read SVO 347s reply, to me it said "Children are important, I am not upset with the limit being dropped".

This is an Australian forum and most on here are Australian so if you see a comment that to you seems antisocial or insulting, sit back for a minute and see if WE take it that way and if so please join in the retaliation.
You will get used to us eventually.

Don't feel too bad, we have as much trouble understanding you guys too, I have got myself into lots of trouble because of this over the years.....

As far as the AK47 slur, come on, you live in Florida not Kentucky, your guns would be Colt & Glock & Sig & Beretta (just like mine), not cheap chinese crap.

[RAREV8]

Originally Posted by fantz

Yes i slow down too, but i seem to be the only one around at the time who does. Back when i was a kid we had no school zones and everything went smoothly, as i used this intelligence theory when crossing roads:

if car = on road { wait until car = passed } | else { look left, right left, cross with caution }

enough said.

If anyone here ever drives down Pennant Hills Road from Wahroonga to Parramatta, you will be familiar with just how many school zones there are. it is an absolute nightmare using this route during the 40kph times!

What absolutely disgusts me is that I make a point of sticking to 40kph, even deriving some enjoyment from it but I look at those overtaking/undertaking me and the majority are mothers who have just dropped their precious ones off or are about to do so.WTF???

I really don't care if someone zips past me on the motorway at 140kph- no real safety issue but it angers me when they speed in a school zone. That is endangering young lifes.

However, my first school was on the edge of a main route and we never had the luxury of school zones. I agree with the earlier post regarding senior schools not really needing school zones but the flashing warning lights are the best thing they have done. Most peoples watches/car clocks tell different times; many are fast to allow people to get to work on time etc.....with the flashing lights, if you get caught speeding you cannot blame anyone, if you are doing 40 and some dick is behind you beeping because by his watch, its past the time, no worries here either.

Keeps it very straight forward.

[WILDTRAKPX2]

I reckon some of you guys will change your tune once you have kids of your own.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by Shockwave XR8

I reckon some of you guys will change your tune once you have kids of your own.

It's not going to make any difference, when i slow down to the 40 zone speed at the designated times, i get people up my ИИИИ as though they don't even know why i'm doing 40, flying past, even had people swearing and carrying on. Imagine 25 ? As i said it didn't seem to be a problem having no school zones when i was in school, had lolly pop ladies/gents doing their duties and everything seemed to be pretty slick. Fantastic if it's being proposed purely for child safety, but i firmly believe it's more aimed at revenue.

[Ultimate]

Yes UNR8D in country places some school zones are 80km zones. I live at injune central qld and all around the place there is 80km zone for school. We have one betweeen roma and injune and yep its 80km zone. I think to anyone that we stick to the speed limit of 40. 25km could be to much but i really think that they need someone to access every school and work out a speed. I know there is a school at gympie where the street is so small and hilly that 40km probally a bit to fast. I think it should be slower. These kids are the future of our great country so we got to look out for them. Yep 25km would be to slow in 90% of school zones. But yer just take care people and use some common sense to your speed. Yep i aint no old bugger having a winge. I am 21 years old and yes i break the speed limit very often. But i still got some common sense in relation to australian future generation

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by Ultimate

...and yes i break the speed limit very often. But i still got some common sense in relation to australian future generation

So you don't like endangering school kids, but it's ok to endanger everyone else, (since you said very often, not just occasionally), including those on this forum most likely ? Might need to re-evaluate there champ.

[Ultimate]

Yer mate i live in a town of 400 i have to drive 90km to go shopping. I lucky to see 5 cars most times between the two towns so yer i speed. Normally at about 120kmph

[svo347]

When I read SVO 347s reply, to me it said "Children are important, I am not upset with the limit being dropped".

Bingo

As far as the AK47 slur, come on, you live in Florida not Kentucky, your guns would be Colt & Glock & Sig & Beretta (just like mine), not cheap chinese crap.

Well any big shiny @#$% &%^$% gun really

[FASTXR]

Originally Posted by slipper

What crap! Surely you can read traffic signs and can identity a school without lights? Do you need flashing stimuli every time you come across a stop sign? Anybody who does should immediately trade their licence for a frickin' bus pass!

Mate I really don't understand your thinking. You say you support 25km/h around schools but then dump on me for suggesting something that could only raise motorist's awareness of the school zone and more likely than not lower their speed.

No, I don't need flashing stimuli every time I come across a stop sign, but then again I don't know of too many stop signs that only operate at certain times of the day and certain days of the year either!

[chief]

Another thing to consider with the times of the school zones is that not all schools are open at the same time. Private schools generall have longer holidays than public schools but the rules are still in force for the school zone even when there are no kids at school. I think that school znes at 40km/h is adequet and that school zones should only be inforced when the children are at school. Thoughts?

[coyote]

I think the greatest issue is that we all want to protect our children, and when it comes to driving past schools we all want to be responsible.

The biggest issue is the times and days of the restrictions, these times are listed in small print on signs that are generally obscured, or that you are distracted by children on the footpaths/roads and may miss them entirely,

What is wrong with flashing lights.

These speed zones should only be enforseable when the kids are about not on Holidays, pupil free days, or what ever else reason that they give the kids days off for.

As noted common sence died a long time ago along with the attitude of being responsible for our own actions, and that of our children. I taught my kids that everybody drives at least as bad as me and that roads are for cars and parks are for kids, If you are going to go into the area where cars play then you better be very careful.

PS - I am a father of 5,

[woodsy109]

I agree flashing lights that activate when lower speed limits are in place would be a very good idea. I am normally a very alert driver but I have been halfway through school zones before I have realised that there are kids about and I should be slowing down.

Also the fact I left school quite a few years ago and have no kids of my own makes you a bit more unaware of when school is in and when they are on holidays ect.

Another positive for the flashing lights. You can see it a mile away and therefore have more time to correct your speed before entering the slower speed zone.

It might cost a bit of money to set up, which is probably why the NSW authorities have been "investigating" the idea for so long, but really would it be too much to ask for some of the revenue from speed cameras to be put into this project?