Generalised vent

[Psycho Chicken]

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

I could possibly understand an 2005-2006 model car because the problem might not yet occured or the way to solve it has not yet reached all the mechanics, but an 20 year old car.Ha.

Being an old car has nothing to do with it. There are many things to go wrong and no way of checking quickly. Whereas a new car you can plug a diagnostic tool in and find out straight away. Even then it can take a while to track down the exact problem.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by mattp

Are you a doctor?

No, like the majority of people on here, any professional respect or credability that I may have had to be EARNED by actually doing a good job over a long period of time, not just EXPECTED because I went to school for a really long time and now have some letters in front of my name.

I am sure there are many medical practicioners, and I have a few as friends, have EARNED professional respect by doing their job well but then again I live just down the road from Bundaberg, and as a QLD resident you are very aware of what recently happened there.........

[T_Terror]

If its too expensive for you then you should have enough time to sit down and figure out whats causing the problem and possibly fix it yourself.
Thats why a lot of people come on here, to ask for help with their fords.
Maybe try posting in the tech section? How do you even know that it is an electrical fault?


The world isnt imballanced, in Australia skilled labourers earn as much if not more than executives.
I chose to leave uni for it and havent looked back since :-)

[red_hotxr6]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Being an old car has nothing to do with it. There are many things to go wrong and no way of checking quickly. Whereas a new car you can plug a diagnostic tool in and find out straight away. Even then it can take a while to track down the exact problem.

Agreed on your point of view, but, being 20 years old there are only so many things that can cause that problem, and you would think that within that 20 years said information would have gotten around the traps and now be "common knowledge". Case in point, window wipers on same car stopped working, my husband went and got another pair from the wreckers came home changed them over and switched them on, worked once then stopped.Sorry forgot, as like the first time the fuse went, replaced again and it blew. Took it to the auto electricians, they spent about ten mins looking couldnt find the problem. They wanted to book it in, might take 1-2 hours to find the problem, $75-150.00.Booked it in for the next day.On the way home he stopped in at another auto electrician at everton hills, explains the problem to the gentleman who then walks to the front of the car, opens the bonnet and go over to the passenger side of the car and promptly pulls a plug apart. The plug he has pulled apart is for station wagons with a rear wiper system. He new of this problem because of the age of the car and somewhere in that 20 years they had struck the problem. Cost to fix nothing.2 mins to listen to the problem, 30 secs to lift bonnet and pull plug.I am not saying they are all that easy, what i am saying that with something that old there 3-4 main things that i can think off that could cause an efi engine of that age to miss. On the other hand to make such a stupid comment as-$84.00 at 30 hours is downright stupid. I could get my husband to take the car to steve at redcliffe dyno and get an answer in an hour or 2 max. Sorry for the rant i am just sick and tired off mechanics and tradesmen ripping us off and not being able to do anything about it unless you are a hitman or Bill gates.

[mosman69]

Originally Posted by T_Terror

Thats why a lot of people come on here, to ask for help with their fords.
Maybe try posting in the tech section? How do you even know that it is an electrical fault?

yea i did that already, in the eseries general tech. thats how i knew to go to an auto elec. unlike alot of people here i just appreciate cars and i LOVE my fairmont, seriously its unnatural, the only thing that would make me give it up is at least an el xr6 upwards (not including au's sorry but i despise them : ) so i have no real in depth knowledge about cars and their workings but i appreciate fords and i get off on reading the one million posts nightly all relating to the ford product.

WOOWOO GO THE BLUE OVAL (unashamed plug) : :

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by flappist

This will be difficult for you to understand because you are going to be told the opposite every day but....

Just because you are a doctor it does NOT automatically follow that you are smarter than everyone else, more importantant than everyone else, should earn more money than everyone else or in fact are any different to everyone else at all.

You will hear the exact opposite from most of the people you deal with because THEY ARE ALSO DOCTORS.

If you are if your profession for the money, get out now while you still can. Do real estate or prostitution or sell drugs or be a security guard in a war zone or some other job that pays heaps.

Hey !!! this applies to pilots as well!!!!

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Hey !!! this applies to pilots as well!!!!

Absolutely true, except for the size of the watch.......

[schmidty]

I love hearing people who say tradies are a rip off, or complaining about the prices they have to pay for service.

I think when you stop and take a good hard look at how it all works, there are lots of self employed tradies looking for wages. The overheads are killing small business.

I'm a self employed chippy. Last financial year i spent around $14 - $15k on vehicle expenses (95% of that cost was fuel), close to $8k on tools and equip, Plus $5k on mobile phone, around 1k on office expenses and about $1.5K on miscelaneous expenses, $2k on insurance.

These are direct costs, not including depreciation on the ute, no superannuation (i put the money into my house at the moment) no sick pay, holiday pay, personal leave, RDO's.

Add that up, i spend $625 per week before i make a cent to take home. And i dont have a shop front or staff or do any advertising.

Trades may seem like big money when you look at the hourly rate but unless you work bloody hard, and bloody smart it's a waste of time and effort.

People who work on wages will never understand whats involved in small business. It's not like it used to be.

Sure its got its good points. But to enjoy the good points you've gotta work hard and be at the top of your game.

To the doctor in training who's whinging about $22 per hour. Think about what your $22 per hour that you take home really costs. You'll be making your $22 per hour, plus your paid holidays, paid sick leave, paid personal leave, paid breaks, uniform, minimum 9% super, ongoing training, the overheads of your place of business plus insurance covering liability for your actions.

Imagine if you worked on a sub contract basis, you had to have your own consulting rooms, office, equip, insurance, car parking, utilities, and other associated costs.

Imagine what you'd have to charge per hour to take home $22 per hour!!!!!!!!!! And imagine competing against every other doctor in the phone book for work!!!

All of a sudden rocking up at work and collecting you $22 per hour and all the benefits, then washing your hands and heading home stress free at the end of the day doesnt seem too bad!!

[YuGoStaR]

People whinge too much these days. Get over it, life isn't meant to be easy.

[schmidty]

Originally Posted by YuGoStaR

People whinge too much these days. Get over it, life isn't meant to be easy.

You're not whinging about whinging are you????

[mattp]

Originally Posted by schmidty

ITo the doctor in training who's whinging about $22 per hour. Think about what your $22 per hour that you take home really costs. You'll be making your $22 per hour, plus your paid holidays, paid sick leave, paid personal leave, paid breaks, uniform, minimum 9% super, ongoing training, the overheads of your place of business plus insurance covering liability for your actions.

Do you know how hard doctors in the public sector are worked? Have you not heard of the doctor shortage? Also, you assume ongoing training is thrown in, for example, here's an excerpt from the RACS detailing costs involved in becoming a surgeon:

Costs Part I: Basic Surgical Training (BST):
BST Registration fee $1,320.00
Annual BST fee $2,260.00
Courses:
CcriSP $1,640.00
EMST $1,640.00
BSS $1,640.00
Website fee $1,960.00
Exams:
MCQ $3,750.00
Clinical $1,405.00
TST fee $ 515.00
Basic Surgical Training may extend up to four years.
The Annual Training Fee is applicable to each year of training.
Part II Advanced Surgical Training (AST):
Annual AST fee $3,200.00
Exams:
AST Exam fee $4,975.00
Orthopaedic Exam fee $ 255.00
Fellows:
Entrance fee $5,550.00
Annual Subscriptions $1,800.00

Doesn't look so rosy does it?

Originally Posted by schmidty

And imagine competing against every other doctor in the phone book for work!!!

What do you think private practice is? As flappist said, if you're good at what you do, you don't need to worry about this.

Originally Posted by schmidty

All of a sudden rocking up at work and collecting you $22 per hour and all the benefits, then washing your hands and heading home stress free at the end of the day doesnt seem too bad!!

If you honestly believe a junior doctor can finish their shift and head home stress free, you are truly ignorant. When's the last time you told someone's loved ones they were dead? Not exactly the kind of thing you can wash your hands and leave at work.

Seriously, people should stop commenting on other people's professions / trades, since most seem to have no idea what they're on about.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by mattp

Seriously, people should stop commenting on other people's professions / trades, since most seem to have no idea what they're on about.

Well said, so thats the last that will be heard from yourself then.... _2:

[schmidty]

Originally Posted by mattp

Do you know how hard doctors in the public sector are worked? Have you not heard of the doctor shortage? Also, you assume ongoing training is thrown in, for example, here's an excerpt from the RACS detailing costs involved in becoming a surgeon:

Costs Part I: Basic Surgical Training (BST):
BST Registration fee $1,320.00
Annual BST fee $2,260.00
Courses:
CcriSP $1,640.00
EMST $1,640.00
BSS $1,640.00
Website fee $1,960.00
Exams:
MCQ $3,750.00
Clinical $1,405.00
TST fee $ 515.00
Basic Surgical Training may extend up to four years.
The Annual Training Fee is applicable to each year of training.
Part II Advanced Surgical Training (AST):
Annual AST fee $3,200.00
Exams:
AST Exam fee $4,975.00
Orthopaedic Exam fee $ 255.00
Fellows:
Entrance fee $5,550.00
Annual Subscriptions $1,800.00

Doesn't look so rosy does it?


What do you think private practice is? As flappist said, if you're good at what you do, you don't need to worry about this.


If you honestly believe a junior doctor can finish their shift and head home stress free, you are truly ignorant. When's the last time you told someone's loved ones they were dead? Not exactly the kind of thing you can wash your hands and leave at work.

Seriously, people should stop commenting on other people's professions / trades, since most seem to have no idea what they're on about.

I wasnt getting into the emotional side of things!!!!!! Was only talking bucks. Its part of the job mate. There's good and bad in all jobs. I'm sure he knew that breaking the bad news to people was part of the job when he started. I really doubt a $22 per hour first year doctor is going to be the 1 breaking too much news of death on the table!

I dont whinge about paying doctors bills. I've NEVER even claimed back anything on medicare, or never been bulk billed. couldnt be bothered. I've never met a poor doctor either. Met lots that work hard and have no home life, but thats their choice.

And the costs you mentioned above, mate i've spent that on tools this financial year!!

The $22 per hour is a starting point. How hard a doctor works and how much time and money they choose to invest into their future through ongoing training and specialisation is what sets them apart from their colleagues hey.

In the process of building a neurosurgeon house in melbourne. We built their holiday house 18 months ago, 1.6 million for house and land + tennis court and landscaping so say more like 1.7 Million. Currently building their house, and its around 1.8 million for the house and land + pool and landscaping. The guy would be in his 40's.
He didnt get that from sitting in a clinic in the public sector, he got it from working his bum off, lots of on going training and specialization.

I never claimed to know all the ins and outs of the profession and its training. Just made a general comparison. And i still dont think doctors are in the slightest bit hard done by.

[fangq]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Someone find me a doctor who charges $22 an hour.

Old saying " Don't look for bargains in parachutes or health care "
Steve

[thefargo]

I can recall an old tale of a technician who was called in to fix an early computer. it turns out the problem was the main disk drive shaft was rubbing on the casing. he studied the machine, drew a cross on the casing and said drill a hole here. the hole was drilled, the pressure taken off the shaft and the problem solved. he asked $10,000 for the job. the company complained and asked for an itemised account. it returned saying; drill hole $1:00, knowing where to drill hole $9,999:00
that is why we pay so much. knowledge is power

[angelwithinvisiblewings]

Hey can I jump on the bandwangon and whinge about teachers not getting paid enough? HEHEHEHEHE

Sorry had to. Doctors don't get paid enough, but hey there are alot of people in various jobs out there who don't.

Mosman69 honey I understand your gripe...I'll pat you on the back and swear at the bugger with you. Just because that's what you need to hear. I get what you're on about.

But when you're feeling better, you'll remember that we all work hard and those who work hard deserve money if they're good at what they do...just like me!

I am still paying off my hecs 7 years later too babe. I know the uni student struggle and the god awful fear that rushes through you when you have fork out the bucks. But you'll be ok.

[Windsor220]

Hey atleast you didnt take it to a dealership and get charged around $110/hour for an apprentice to guess what was wrong with it.

[AshMan]

Originally Posted by KJLynx

Hey atleast you didnt take it to a dealership and get charged around $110/hour for an apprentice to guess what was wrong with it.

Nothing wrong with apprentices mate, I'm at work before the tradie is, workshop open, signs out, lights on, sweeped and rubbish bins emptied, and tradie and I work on cars together.

We bill the customer as if the tradesperson had been working on it.

If it took me *say* half an hour longer to complete a job then it would have my tradie, we wear the cost.

I think you'll find most places do this.

[dan.76]

id love to have a reliable doctor in the town i live in, 7000 people , 1 doctor in private practice, last hospital doctor got caught doing something wrong and was sent packing. husband/wife team came to town to do 40hrs between them were here 4weeks and then went on two weeks holidays. private doctor got sick and took a week off .
my towns health care sucks if it wasnt for the flying doctor we would be up ***** creek

[ratter]

A trades man spends 4 years doing an apprenticeship, doctor spends 8 years (?) learning and studying. The human body has been the same for thousands of years, the car is an ever evolving peice of equipment, every new model has new operating systems and more involved electrics. The mechanic/auto elec is forever updating their knowledge , so infact they are allways studying,
Every year their is also memberships to organisations to keep up to date with latest porcedures, there is new reference material to be purchased every year and also the purchase of up to date equipment to test newer models.

You go to the doctor and tell them what your problem is, the mechanic/auto elec has to sort through information to try to locate and fix a problem

Doctors charge $50-60 (approx) for 10-15 minutes = up to $240 per hour for a gp
Specialist will charge inexcess of several thousands of dollars just for an operation which may only take an hour or 2

Doctors to get to bury their mistakes
Mechanics/auto elecs have to fix theirs.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by schmidty

All of a sudden rocking up at work and collecting you $22 per hour and all the benefits, then washing your hands and heading home stress free at the end of the day doesnt seem too bad!!

Especially when you pay top dollar for dual fuel just so that you can lap Bathurst with scantilly clad females in the back!

[mosman69]

Originally Posted by ratter

A trades man spends 4 years doing an apprenticeship, doctor spends 8 years (?) learning and studying. The human body has been the same for thousands of years, the car is an ever evolving peice of equipment, every new model has new operating systems and more involved electrics. The mechanic/auto elec is forever updating their knowledge , so infact they are allways studying,
Every year their is also memberships to organisations to keep up to date with latest porcedures, there is new reference material to be purchased every year and also the purchase of up to date equipment to test newer models.

Doctors to get to bury their mistakes
Mechanics/auto elecs have to fix theirs.

WOW what a load of misconceptions which im juct going to HAVE to clear up mate.
Not a personal attack but like what was said earlier please no comments made on assumptions. I'm not even going to comment on the car trade becasue you have raised a valid point about constanlty changing cars.

Now i want you to think about how often drugs, treatments heck even the definitions for diseases change. In case you dont know they are onstanlty changing. Every friggin month there are a 10-20 new drugs out on the market claiming to be the cure for whatever, as a doctor it will be my duty to have to sit there and say well are they bull$hitin me or is this rally the cure for cancer. i have to make a judgment call with no one holding my hand and wear the decsion like im supposed to because yes we do get very consistent and decent financial reimbursment. the pay isnt amazing straight away but its there straight away and tis not going away (im not delerious medicine is a good place to be thats y i worked my a$$ off to get here) but thats just drugs. there are monthly updates to how we are supposed to perform certain procedures. yearly updates on how to change surgical procedures to better them. mate there are new clinical trials claiming things all the tiem, it wouldnt be so bad if they were all true and all i had t do was read and apply em but you have to sift trhru the rubbish all the time. once again i cant compare this to the auto industry cuz i have no experience but i do have to correct that misconception.

Secondly we get to bury our mistakes??? think again, if im examing a female patients heart and i need to move her pendulous breasts to get my stethoscope at her heart and she doesnt like the way i did it cuz i was too quick or i didnt ask permission thirty times then she sues me, gets a lot of money, then here is the bad news i go in front of the medical board and lose my license to practise medicine. hmmm can anyone say a waste of 10 years of study??? i can!!!! im not saying that shouldnt ask permissino but in our highly PC society once is never enough in fact twice is never enough (geez women and their breasts are a touchy subject :newangel: )
point is any mistake i make i end up losing money (definite) then possibly being suspended from practising medicine for a period of time (be it temporary or permanent) the board also has powers to demote me to a junior position or fine me large amounts of money. because they are not a legal organisiation more like a union they can pretty much do whatever they want to punish me. so yeah auto elecs have to fix mistakes but i dont get a chance to make a second mistake

Just some food for thought
:

ps thanks to angelwithinvisiblewings : hahaha

pps please no one get mad at my post :

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by mosman69

geez women and their breasts are a touchy subject

Mad at your posts? Nah. But I'm NOT going anywhere near that line

[dan.76]

mosman dont forget youll be doing 80 plus hours a week so at 22 an hour thatll add up. lol

[mosman69]

mate like angelwithinvisible wings said its not REALLY that i think im gonna b poor when i graduate but lets face it doctors are rich cuz they choose to work like crazy ba$tards (most of em anyway). yes there are heaps of em who are also loaded cuz they do other things and claim cool stuff with tax loophoels etc. (i know a vascular surgeon who has his own plane and claimed it on tax ba$tard!!!!)...

anyway i was just in need of someone to hear me whinge that day and i sorta got it hahha

and yes i wouldnt wanna go near that comment about breasts again either otherwise i would have to be a

[T_Terror]

Well good luck to you, i think youre going about it the right way.

You asked for help, realised its over your head and got some quotes.

I think those auto elec rates are pretty high as well, even though i can see where some of the costs are coming from. But what can you do, thats the price of enjoying cars.

I dont know why some people think that this is about class wars, the reality is Australia is in need of more doctors and tradepeople and the talented guys in either field can make a lot of money.
Hopefully you can finish study soon, make nice money, and not have to worry about upkeep costs on cars.

[ratter]

Mosman69

Not having ago also as we do need doctors, it's just mechanics normally get paid low wages compared to other trades that reqiuire less knowledge and/or training
I was speaking to a lawyer the other day and they went on about making sure they get paid their $300 per hour for just talking to a client, but I gaurantee that they would whinge about paying $100 per hour for the mechanic to work on their car let alone just to talk to the mechanic.
I know lawyers are higher up the pecking order than a low mechanic and they do more studying (initialy)

Now you mentioned about the drug companies with their new products and I also undertsand that point, but we have all sorts of companies/reps offering us new tools, better products etc to help our customers out (sound similar?) As mechanics we have to listen to these people if we want to remain professional and up to date, otherwise we will be left working on older cars that we grew up with. If you have a mechanic you trust and want to know about a product for your car, you would like him to give you an accurate answer, so he needs to read and keep up to date.

When i started my apprenticeship, I was working on VC commodores, they had an am radio, some had am/fm radio cassette, power steering was an option, air con was an option, vinyl seats were the norm and the latest greatest technology was a 2 barrell carb and electronic ignition (now I'm starting to feel old) look how much has changed with cars, how much technology is now in new cars, how modern is an EF compared to a Vc and yet a EF is old compared to a BF or VE

How many people here have been to a doctor, not feeling well for what ever reason and the first visit they get told to take a couple of (insert over the counter drug name here) and if it's not better come back in a few days,and we have to pay for this advice, only to pay again at the next visit. I don't think as a mechanic I could get away with this.

Now not trying to be rude but next time you (or anybody reading) think about trying to get some free or even cheap advice from a mechanic or an auto elec think about the amount and cost of equipment they have to have to give a correct diagnosis and don't begrudge having to pay them for their time. I'm sure when you are working as a doctor you will not be looking at patients and not charging them.

Sorry to rant, but I see so many people on here expecting free diagnosis from a mechanic and then they want to fix it themselves without paying for the diagnosis

We all have to work for a living so don't begrudge someone trying to make a decent living from their trade no matter what it is.

:Reverend:

[angelwithinvisiblewings]

[QUOTE=mosman69]
ps thanks to angelwithinvisiblewings : hahaha [QUOTE]

No worries mate ;)

Let's face it we all work too hard and don't get paid enough...we are all specialist in the area in which we work..they all have pros and cons.

(My brother in law is a specialist in drinking beer ;) and me in red wine)

We could be here forever...i could be anyway if I started on teaching.

Mosman good luck to you

[GTjake]

Mosman,
I just wanna say this:

Be a really good doctor.
And no-one whos ever needed one will begrudge you any amount of money or perks.

I say this having a specialist whom I see every week or 2 (so far for a year).
His rate is $205 / hour. And I reckon he's probably underpaid !

[DEVL-XR]

Originally Posted by mosman69

there is imbalance in the world!!!!

my car died recently, i just took it to an auto elec who was real nice about it all and said he would sort me out but how much is he going to charge me? well working at around $70 an hour he said just checkin it out could cost me an hours labour, then if its easy add another hour, if its difficult add a few more than that, if he cant fix it at my house he will ofcourse tow it and charge me for that (all this time his little meter is ticking away) thenhe will need to fix the damn thing and i gotta pay for parts etc. at this stage best case scenario my car is not grounded probperly = no parts needed only two hours labour. worst case bcm gone = new bcm, towing plus a lot more than two hours labour.

how come he can charge me so much when its just a car when as soon as i graduate as a doctor i will be getting $22/hr first yr, then really only rising by a $1/hr every year until i finally reach the top (not expected for minimum 8yrs where i will be earning better. why why why!!! its just a car right :

i know exactly where your coming from. every time i take my car to get fixed i cant stand to think about how much its gonna cost me just in labour!its especially hard when im at tafe all day with just a part time job to cover expenses. but what everyone else is saying does make sence. thats pretty much how this world works!!....up s h i t creek!!