Stop-Start - is it worth it?

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Ben73

As for the post above saying it’s good for traffic jams in places like LA. It’s not really. In those sorts of traffic jams you usually only stop for a few seconds at a time before rolling forward at 10kmh or so.

I heard that's why the Prius was so popular in LA. slow rolling freeway traffic.
Didn't it have a engine cut out at 60km/h as opposed to 40km/h here.
Anyone know if this is true.

[aussie muscle]

our work van has this feature. it stops when you want to go, then you have a 1-2 second delay while it restarts, then it bogs down because the vehicle is already moving and trying to accelerate.
when i stop at the boom gate at our building, it stops just as i finish the swipe and want to start moving again.
it looses power steering when the stop/start kicks in.
it looses power to the gps tracker, making it beep for a fresh logon (key-fob).

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I believe it restarts when going into park because someone killed themselves accidentally because they left it in auto stop mode in their garage, after a while the battery was getting low so the engine started to charge it and gassed out their entire house. Apparently.

Plenty of more sensible ways to avoid that
Even on this car, it would restart as soon as I took my foot off the brake.

[gkhn]

Is it a Renault van by any chance?
Any your real name is..... Jason LOL

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

our work van has this feature. it stops when you want to go, then you have a 1-2 second delay while it restarts, then it bogs down because the vehicle is already moving and trying to accelerate.
when i stop at the boom gate at our building, it stops just as i finish the swipe and want to start moving again.
it looses power steering when the stop/start kicks in.
it looses power to the gps tracker, making it beep for a fresh logon (key-fob).

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Ben73

As for the post above saying it’s good for traffic jams in places like LA. It’s not really. In those sorts of traffic jams you usually only stop for a few seconds at a time before rolling forward at 10kmh or so. Auto stops only good for traffic lights around town when you have to wait for the full sequence

They got nothing on Jakarta:
You pay a cash toll to go onto the elevated expressways,
and then sit
Traffic is so slow that hawkers wander amongst the cars selling hot-food and drinks. One guy (who was into "Hashing") proved that he could beat me back to the hotel by walking.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I heard that's why the Prius was so popular in LA. slow rolling freeway traffic.
Didn't it have a engine cut out at 60km/h as opposed to 40km/h here.
Anyone know if this is true.

I thought Australia was 50kmh but I don't know.
I reckon hybrids are the way to go for heavy city traffic. I'd buy one if I had to drive in heavy traffic regularly.

[gkhn]

Stop/start system in hybrids are way different than OP's car...
Hybrids use a giant battery and generator to start the car instead of the flimsy weak starter motor.
You are saving fuel but I think in the long run, engine, the 12V battery and the starter will wear out faster.

Originally Posted by Ben73

I thought Australia was 50kmh but I don't know.
I reckon hybrids are the way to go for heavy city traffic. I'd buy one if I had to drive in heavy traffic regularly.

[.:4:.]

Stop start in a car thats not a hybrid, i find it a tad bit scary. My mums car has it, and ive only been a passenger in that thing. But blanket statement, people in sydney drive like theyre constantly running late, especially in the area my mum lives. 50 means 70. So the minor delay pulling across and into traffic in a slow to begin with benz is sketchy. My old boss turned it off in his old turbo v8 x6 because he is constantly late and drives like an oportunistic f wit. His x6 spent most of its life back at the dealer and the 528 loaner he usually had you couldnt turn it off and yeah, picking the gap was sketchy. Not so point and shoot. His q7 then sq5 both have it disabled.
Heavy traffic, yeah, i can see the advantages. Especially if you dont plan to keep the thing forever so any potential maintenance in the future is not applicable. But, for picking the gap? Its a yeah nah for me.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by .:4:.

Stop start in a car thats not a hybrid, i find it a tad bit scary. My mums car has it, and ive only been a passenger in that thing. But blanket statement, people in sydney drive like theyre constantly running late, especially in the area my mum lives. 50 means 70. So the minor delay pulling across and into traffic in a slow to begin with benz is sketchy. My old boss turned it off in his old turbo v8 x6 because he is constantly late and drives like an oportunistic f wit. His x6 spent most of its life back at the dealer and the 528 loaner he usually had you couldnt turn it off and yeah, picking the gap was sketchy. Not so point and shoot. His q7 then sq5 both have it disabled.
Heavy traffic, yeah, i can see the advantages. Especially if you dont plan to keep the thing forever so any potential maintenance in the future is not applicable. But, for picking the gap? Its a yeah nah for me.

Sydney, I wonder if that's the reason why cars pull out into the left lane as you pass in the right lane..keep it rolling, don't want to stop the engine. It seems to be a relatively newer thing since say 2010s on.

Melbourne on the other hand just pull straight out in front of you, doesn't matter which lane.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Sydney, I wonder if that's the reason why cars pull out into the left lane as you pass in the right lane..keep it rolling, don't want to stop the engine. It seems to be a relatively newer thing since say 2010s on.

Melbourne on the other hand just pull straight out in front of you, doesn't matter which lane.

Hmmmm, back in the early 2000s driving to school, if i wasnt in my car or my dads jag, they were slow, if i was in the ute or mums car, i would often pull the ultimate f wit move. At the red light where north rocks road crosses pennant hills road, the left lane goes 3 ways, the right is right turn only. But if the right lane was empty, regardless of if the car front of the line was indicating right, id go to the front of the right lane, launch as soon as the green came on, and go straight from the right turn only lane. Deffinately not something i would do these days, but i wasnt a dad back then, but its not a move id try pull if the car wasnt running. But i suppose it would if you were sitting on the converter waiting for the light.
Do they do stop start in anything manual? I know manuals are becoming more and more scarce, but if they do, how does that work? Minor delay, give it a couple of rpm then ease out of the clutch?
Now im curious. I might have to take my grandpas prius out for a spin and leave it on petrol/electric. I suspect they do not have a conventional starter motor being a hybrid and use the electric motor to sort of almost clutch start the petrol generator. Grandpa sort of explained it to the best of his knowledge, he is really old. He says theyre all electric untill either the batteries need a charge or flooring it/going up a hill/ anytime it needs all the power, thats when the engine kicks in. I know my brother hates the prius because its way too small and he isnt a button pusher, so leaves it in eco mode. But id be interested to push buttons and compare it sort of evenly to the yaris i used to get as a courtesy car whenever my work cars were at the mechanics. Yeah it was too small and slow, but i loved driving that, what it lacked in size and speed, it made up in turning circle and fitted in the tightest of spaces.

[nitro50th]

We had a 2014 Mazda3 SP25 GT with a manual gearbox.

Pretty sure you had to put it in neutral, take your foot off the clutch and come to a complete stop for the stop/start to activate. So in the 3 years we had it I reckon it kicked in no more than a dozen times.

Living in a rural area probably helps, no real peak hour traffic to sit in for long periods to warrant taking your foot off the clutch at traffic lights.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by nitro50th

We had a 2014 Mazda3 SP25 GT with a manual gearbox.

Pretty sure you had to put it in neutral, take your foot off the clutch and come to a complete stop for the stop/start to activate. So in the 3 years we had it I reckon it kicked in no more than a dozen times.

Living in a rural area probably helps, no real peak hour traffic to sit in for long periods to warrant taking your foot off the clutch at traffic lights.

I long for a set of traffic lights.

.:4:. when you do take to GP's Prius out can you confirm that the ICE cuts out at 40-50km/h Just curious.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by .:4:.

Stop start in a car thats not a hybrid, i find it a tad bit scary. My mums car has it, and ive only been a passenger in that thing. But blanket statement, people in sydney drive like theyre constantly running late, especially in the area my mum lives. 50 means 70. .

Pretty sure Sydney's speed limit is 70. No matter whether you're on a narrow residential street or a motorway people just do 70 all day every day.

[Swordie]

It’s definitely worth it for highly polluted cities with smog if it helps air quality.

[creative]

Have a 2019 mazda 3 GT and cant stand it. First button I press is to deactiavte it. Wish you could turn it off permanently.

dont get me started on the adaptive cruise control... That function is a death trap and again, has to be turned off each time the car is started.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by gkhn

Stop/start system in hybrids are way different than OP's car...
Hybrids use a giant battery and generator to start the car instead of the flimsy weak starter motor.
You are saving fuel but I think in the long run, engine, the 12V battery and the starter will wear out faster.

This is a common misconception.

Stop / start does not use the starter motor. It senses what stage of the cycle the engine is in prior to shutdown and sparks the cylinder that has just had fuel injected into it to get it going again.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

This is a common misconception.

Stop / start does not use the starter motor. It senses what stage of the cycle the engine is in prior to shutdown and sparks the cylinder that has just had fuel injected into it to get it going again.

Our Subaru definitely uses the starter, you can hear it winding over.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Our Subaru definitely uses the starter, you can hear it winding over.

I was going to edit it- yes, it seems that some cars still engage the starter in the traditional way to get going again.

Those that do have a starter with stronger internals than normal cars as well as an uprated battery.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I was going to edit it- yes, it seems that some cars still engage the starter in the traditional way to get going again.

Those that do have a starter with stronger internals than normal cars as well as an uprated battery.

Yes, price of a new battery sucks.
We’ve been through three in the last five years roughly. Stock replacement is almost $500 but most battery retailers have a very similar spec battery for about half that.
Funnily enough it gives us warnings that the battery is dying, first the windows auto up and down stop functioning, then about a month later the stop start stops working. After that it could be days or weeks before the battery fails completely.
Haven’t had to do a starter yet and the car is at 112000km.

[Yellow_Festiva]

3 batteries in 5 years is a very short life expectancy.

Is that a common trait to your model I wonder?

Any savings in fuel are lost on replacement batteries!

[gkhn]

So it does not use starter motor at all after a cold start?

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

This is a common misconception.

Stop / start does not use the starter motor. It senses what stage of the cycle the engine is in prior to shutdown and sparks the cylinder that has just had fuel injected into it to get it going again.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

3 batteries in 5 years is a very short life expectancy.

Is that a common trait to your model I wonder?

Any savings in fuel are lost on replacement batteries!

It could be an effect of not using the factory specced battery, but I have seen on American crosstrek (same as the xv) pages that they do have a healthy appetite for batteries.

But the stop start isn’t really there for fuel economy although that’s what the marketing blurb will say, it’s about dropping emissions.

You can have the centre display set to show you have much fuel it saves you on a trip and it’s never a great deal.
I tend to drive so it doesn’t activate, I’m not a huge fan of it.
Other than the weak cvt I love the car. It’s slow as hell but still fun to drive in a weird way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

This is a common misconception.

Stop / start does not use the starter motor. It senses what stage of the cycle the engine is in prior to shutdown and sparks the cylinder that has just had fuel injected into it to get it going again.

Err no, they definitely use the starter, that's why they require special batteries

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Err no, they definitely use the starter, that's why they require special batteries

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-new...a-i-stop-18147

Mazda is unique in that it doesn’t rely entirely on the starter motor.

I believe most other manufacturers use heavy duty, faster starter motors.

[prktkljokr]

My 2009 Smart Fortwo MHD has a starter generator, it looks like a alternator and spins the drive belt to start the car, the car does not even have a starter motor

Its quite a odd feeling when the start stop is working, you can feel the motor turn over silent with no stater noise, then it fires up

When I had it on the hoist the last time I had a good look around and it actually has a place for the starter to go cast into the engine and its machined to accept a starter, but it just has a thin tin block off plate covering the opening.

I think all the different manufacturers have their own way of starting with the start stop set up, be it starter motor, generator, fuel and spark or a combination of two for the most efficient and quick start it requires.

I have the small circuit board fitted now so it does not come on unless I press the button for it to be on, the way it should come from the factory I think.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

My 2009 Smart Fortwo MHD has a starter generator, it looks like a alternator and spins the drive belt to start the car, the car does not even have a starter motor

Its quite a odd feeling when the start stop is working, you can feel the motor turn over silent with no stater noise, then it fires up

When I had it on the hoist the last time I had a good look around and it actually has a place for the starter to go cast into the engine and its machined to accept a starter, but it just has a thin tin block off plate covering the opening.

I think all the different manufacturers have their own way of starting with the start stop set up, be it starter motor, generator, fuel and spark or a combination of two for the most efficient and quick start it requires.

I have the small circuit board fitted now so it does not come on unless I press the button for it to be on, the way it should come from the factory I think.

Back in the 1920,s a few different makes had big starter/ generators although they were only turning over against about 5:1 comp ratio and probably a comp pressure of 60-70 psi

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Err no, they definitely use the starter, that's why they require special batteries

I did correct myself regarding that.

Special (uprated?) batteries could also be for the electronics that need to keep going when the car is off.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[gkhn]

Why do we even need starter motors then?
It should sense what stage of the cycle the engine is in last night you shut the engine off & start without starter motor in the morning..
They use starter motor to start again. It can be more beefy starter compared to your usual car that doesn't have an auto start/stop system.

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

This is a common misconception.

Stop / start does not use the starter motor. It senses what stage of the cycle the engine is in prior to shutdown and sparks the cylinder that has just had fuel injected into it to get it going again.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by fiestaz

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-new...a-i-stop-18147

Mazda is unique in that it doesn’t rely entirely on the starter motor.

I believe most other manufacturers use heavy duty, faster starter motors.

From their spiel :

fuel is injected into the cylinder and the start motor applies a small amount of torque to the crankshaft, all of which makes for a more refined and quicker start

They use starter motor to apply "small" amount of torque. People tend to skip detail and most believe that Mazda does not use starter motor to restart.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I did correct myself regarding that.

Special (uprated?) batteries could also be for the electronics that need to keep going when the car is off.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Try disconnecting starter motor and see if the car will restart without it .